Recruiting 2019

[SanityLost17]

If we don't have mass transfers after the season I see no reason why we couldn't redshirt this guy.  Instead of going JUCO and then having 3 years he could practice with D1 players for a year and have 4 years.   Given the growth spurt and the troubles we saw McMillan go through last year I think it would be good for him and for us.  If he turns out to be a stud and transfers after 3 seasons so be it as that would have been his original graduation date anyway. 

[VU2014]

If we don't have mass transfers after the season I see no reason why we couldn't redshirt this guy.  Instead of going JUCO and then having 3 years he could practice with D1 players for a year and have 4 years.   Given the growth spurt and the troubles we saw McMillan go through last year I think it would be good for him and for us.  If he turns out to be a stud and transfers after 3 seasons so be it as that would have been his original graduation date anyway. 

If he can help right away then I have no problem playing him as a true freshman. It sounds like he has a reputation as a pretty good defender. I understand the concern over the growth spurt and learning to adjust to the new found height but every guy is different. An encouraging sign is that he started to fill out his frame a little more in high school. Mileek didn't start to fill out till this summer. A lot of it has to do with basketball instincts. I'm not sure Mileek has them right now. If you watch him defend guys, he has "happy feet". His spacing and footwork on defense just seems to off and it leads to those silly fouls. I hindsight we should have probably red-shirted Parker and Mileek. Even Marty for that matter could have stood to use a RS to learn and get his body to lean out. Oh well.

Maybe they wish they could take a mulligan on that first recruiting class. I think Linssen could be a pretty good player still but he's at UNCW now. At least it looks like they hit on Freeman and Sackey. TBD on Clay, but there is some upside to like there for sure. What is going to be absolutely crucial is nailing that big 2020 class. We may not be done with this 2019 class if they anticipate a transfer or 2. We need to find the big men of the future for this team. I'm a little concerned handing the keys over to a true freshman center for the 2020-2021 season.

[EddieCabot]

If we don't have mass transfers after the season I see no reason why we couldn't redshirt this guy.  Instead of going JUCO and then having 3 years he could practice with D1 players for a year and have 4 years.   Given the growth spurt and the troubles we saw McMillan go through last year I think it would be good for him and for us.  If he turns out to be a stud and transfers after 3 seasons so be it as that would have been his original graduation date anyway. 

If he can help right away then I have no problem playing him as a true freshman. It sounds like he has a reputation as a pretty good defender. I understand the concern over the growth spurt and learning to adjust to the new found height but every guy is different. An encouraging sign is that he started to fill out his frame a little more in high school. Mileek didn't start to fill out till this summer. A lot of it has to do with basketball instincts. I'm not sure Mileek has them right now. If you watch him defend guys, he has "happy feet". His spacing and footwork on defense just seems to off and it leads to those silly fouls. I hindsight we should have probably red-shirted Parker and Mileek. Even Marty for that matter could have stood to use a RS to learn and get his body to lean out. Oh well.

Maybe they wish they could take a mulligan on that first recruiting class. I think Linssen could be a pretty good player still but he's at UNCW now. At least it looks like they hit on Freeman and Sackey. TBD on Clay, but there is some upside to like there for sure. What is going to be absolutely crucial is nailing that big 2020 class. We may not be done with this 2019 class if they anticipate a transfer or 2. We need to find the big men of the future for this team. I'm a little concerned handing the keys over to a true freshman center for the 2020-2021 season.

I think the question is whether he'll be good enough as a freshman to earn meaningful playing time.  Valpo will have 6 seniors, 4 juniors (including Micah) and 2 stud sophs next year.  If Gordon and Robinson are as good as advertised and everyone else returns healthy, playing time may be difficult to come by.

[vu72]

I think the question is whether he'll be good enough as a freshman to earn meaningful playing time.  Valpo will have 6 seniors, 4 juniors (including Micah) and 2 stud sophs next year.  If Gordon and Robinson are as good as advertised and everyone else returns healthy, playing time may be difficult to come by.

Perhaps, but, although adding Robinson will add some athletic size, we still will need another shooter.  At 6'7" and given some of the video out there, this kid has a motor and shooting skill we desperately need.

[valpolaw]

The way this season is going downhill, I can't imagine PT for anyone is a guarantee next year.  I also can't imagine we would be bringing Donovan in with the thought of red-shirting him.  I would think Donovan and anyone else would get a fair chance to prove themselves and claim any available PT. 

[vu72]

Check out this article about Donovan's team play against EJ Liddell, the reigning Illinois Mr. Basketball!

https://advantagenews.com/sports/boys-basketball-birds-ready-for-rematch-with-maroons/

It says in part:

Clay added 7 rebounds and 2 blocks to go with stellar defense on Ohio State recruit E.J. Liddell. He contained Liddell to 1-of-9 shooting and just 4 points in the first half.

"The way I played on E.J. was just discipline," Clay said. "I knew I couldn't foul him and ended up fouling him later, but I did what I could."

Alton head coach Eric Smith added of Clay, "Donovan is athletic, he's got length and he's tenacious. He sits down and competes. He's not going to lay down for him."

[EddieCabot]

Check out this article about Donovan's team play against EJ Liddell, the reigning Illinois Mr. Basketball!

https://advantagenews.com/sports/boys-basketball-birds-ready-for-rematch-with-maroons/

It says in part:

Clay added 7 rebounds and 2 blocks to go with stellar defense on Ohio State recruit E.J. Liddell. He contained Liddell to 1-of-9 shooting and just 4 points in the first half.

"The way I played on E.J. was just discipline," Clay said. "I knew I couldn't foul him and ended up fouling him later, but I did what I could."

Alton head coach Eric Smith added of Clay, "Donovan is athletic, he's got length and he's tenacious. He sits down and competes. He's not going to lay down for him."

Impressive.  Liddell is ranked #45 in the 2019 class by 247 Sports.  Looks like Clay got the best of him again in their rematch.

https://www.thetelegraph.com/sports/article/PREP-BOYS-BASKETBALL-Alton-repeats-big-effort-13510282.php

[wh]

I want to see next year's team revolve around the following players: Freeman, Sackey, Golder,  Fazekus, Gordon, Robinson, and now Clay.

If Derrik returns, play him, of course, along with Jay, but limit their minutes and change their roles dramatically. Use them to change up the offense or defense, if and when matchups dictate, but never again automatically award 40 of 200 team minutes to 2 guys who weigh the team down as often as they lift it up.

[VU2014]

I want to see next year's team revolve around the following players: Freeman, Sackey, Golder,  Fazekus, Gordon, Robinson, and now Clay.

If Derrik returns, play him, of course, along with Jay, but limit their minutes and change their roles dramatically. Use them to change up the offense or defense, if and when matchups dictate, but never again automatically award 40 of 200 team minutes to 2 guys who weigh the team down as often as they lift it up.

We're either going to ride or die with Smits & Sorolla. Both aren't perfect but have some strong points to their game. If Smits transfers it would leave this program in a very bad spot. Their role won't be shrinking unless we land some impact freshman or grad transfer which seems highly unlikely at this point.

[FieldGoodie05]

I think the question is whether he'll be good enough as a freshman to earn meaningful playing time.  Valpo will have 6 seniors, 4 juniors (including Micah) and 2 stud sophs next year.  If Gordon and Robinson are as good as advertised and everyone else returns healthy, playing time may be difficult to come by.

Perhaps, but, although adding Robinson will add some athletic size, we still will need another shooter.  At 6'7" and given some of the video out there, this kid has a motor and shooting skill we desperately need.

If there is one thing I've come to accept with the last two years, it's that coach plays guys that aren't a liability (Kiser point in fact).  I'm thinking if Clay can be a defensive juggernaut and improve our 3-pt shooting.....he's got a shot at solid minutes.

[FieldGoodie05]

It sounds like this kid has better ball skills than mileek did and Mileek played out of position most of his time in college so I'm hoping the learning cure won't be as steep

I'm willing to bet Mileek was not that great as a 6'3" SG before the growth spurt....not sure he ever put up consistent points like Clay is advertised as doing.  Clay put up 25 against a monster of a team with EJ Liddell on it.  I don't think we are talking apples to apples with the two players. 

Also E Victor was horrendous at the point, I hope we never have another player with such poor (high dribbling turnover prone) handles running point for us again.  He was a strong player for other reasons but certainly not a player I'd want our future PG to aspire.  I'll take <6'0" PG all day long if it means less TO.

[VU2010]

Well-said, Feelgoodie

That's exactly right ... he plays players who aren't a liability. For the most part. You've gotta wonder if everybody was healthy and Bakari was playing this bad if he'd be sitting.

My concern with this whole playing guys who aren't a liability is that there's a ceiling to it. Kiser - for instance - has a ceiling that's not D1 talent. D1 effort for sure. But there's a lot of times he purely gets out-played ... out-athleted.

I guess I'm surprised that we moved from the Horizon to the MVC (a MUCH BETTER conference) and are still at the point where we've gotta go for hoping we found the diamond in the ruff ya know? Like at what point do we get good midmajor level players to WANT to come here? Like ... right from the start? At what point do we get the in-state guy to stay home like we've seen elsewhere with UNI and others?

See what I'm saying? If we could get some solid guys to come right out high school and as transfers when in the Horizon, why can't we get that now that we're in a better conference with more media coverage?

I remember folks on this board saying our roster isn't full of mvc guys and to wait until that's the case.

[VU2014]

Not sure I'd classify Clay as a future PG but it sounds like he could handle to ball when needed like e victor. either way it's nice to have guys who are versatile enough to play many roles on the court. If he could be a near 40% 3pt shooter, play good defense and rebound at that size he'll be an excellent contributor down the road. I won't expect much from him next season because I keep expectations for all incoming freshman pretty low.

[VU2014]

Valparaiso notes: Versatile guard/forward Donovan Clay from downstate Illinois verbally commits
Michael Osipoff
Post-Tribune
February 4, 2019

https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-spt-mens-basketball-valparaiso-notes-donovan-clay-st-0205-story.html

https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1092584089008463874
https://twitter.com/BBASKILLS/status/1092313172525154305

[bbtds]

Being that it's a little over 2 hours from Alton to Normal and the Alton Redbirds don't play till Friday against Collinsville my bet is that Donovan Clay will be watching the game tonight at Redbird Arena.

[VUBBFan]

Being that it's a little over 2 hours from Alton to Normal and the Alton Redbirds don't play till Friday against Collinsville my bet is that Donovan Clay will be watching the game tonight at Redbird Arena.

I sure hope he was. This would have been a great game for him to see.

[humbleopinion]

Donovan didn't make the trip. According to Deion's father, Donovan's dad is 6' 8".  He thinks that Donovan has more growth in him.

[FWalum]

Full game video of Kahok vs Alton.  Like these longer videos rather than just short highlight clips. Clay plays the perimeter primarily on offense. It appears that after the big fight Alton played more zone because of player suspensions with Clay playing the middle.  IMO the kid has a good motor and has a lot of tools and potential. When he matures and develops physically he could be a very good player.  I think this is a real steal for VU.

 

Here are 2 other videos of complete game highlights of Alton games.

[SanityLost17]

Again, this is based on the idea that most everybody comes back...  It is in both Valpo and Clay's best interest for him to redshirt.  There is just no room next year.  If he plays 4 years after that for us, GREAT.  If he plays 3 and is a grad transfer GREAT.  It is a win win for everyone. 

I think everyone on this list will have a positive impact next year:
Sackey/Freeman/Golder/Fazekas/Smits/Sorolla/Gordon/Robinson/Kiser
--- That is 9 players....9!   No way a raw freshman who just went through a growth spurt is going to be more trustworthy right away than these guys.

Question Marks (with optimistic thoughts)
Bakari -- Was once a very good player, I don't know what is going on but it can's last forever
Bradford -- I saw flashes of greatness and if he is fully healthy he can play impactful minutes
McMillan -- People still refer to him as a baby deer and maybe next year he finally turns the corner.     

Even if the bottom 3 never play meaningful minutes that is still 9 players Clay will have to compete with for time.   Somebody do some sales on the guy and let him know after a redshirt year he will be that much better for his 4 year career.

Odds are at least one of the 3 question marks breaks out and has a good year.  That is 10 players.  Just has never made more sense to redshirt a kid. 

Now all of that said maybe we have 4 guys grad transfer on us.   You just never know these days.   

[vu72]

The comparison to Mileek, because of their both having sudden growth spurts, is way off.  Donovan is WAY more athletic and about the same size.  This kid is quick!  Great get!  Closer to a Milik Yarbrough type athlete.

[bigmosmithfan1]

It is in both Valpo and Clay's best interest for him to redshirt.

No, no, no, no, no, NO. And this isn't just you -- everyone on this board needs to stop making this argument, posthaste. With the new NCAA grad transfer rules, the only reason a midmajor program should ever redshirt a kid is due to injury. Otherwise all we're doing is setting ourselves up to be pillaged of good senior players by P5 programs. If a kid gets hurt and misses a year and that makes them eligible to go into the grad transfer portal (a la Smits after this year), then fine, so be it, but we shouldn't be actively helping that process out.

But the more important reason is this -- assuming we won't have "room" for a particular player at the start of any season is incredibly short-sighted. We've had *major* injuries sideline key guys in four of the past five seasons. This is the third straight season we've had to play extended periods of time with only 8 guys dressed due to injuries. But sure, let's sideline a healthy player for "roster crunch" reasons and make sure we are ridiculously thin every time someone gets hurt.

To be clear, I'm not singling out the poster I'm responding to here -- midmajor programs and their fans need to RADICALLY re-think the way they think about and handle redshirts in this new era, but particularly so for a program that's been as injury-prone as ours has over the past several years.

[EddieCabot]

It is in both Valpo and Clay's best interest for him to redshirt.

No, no, no, no, no, NO. And this isn't just you -- everyone on this board needs to stop making this argument, posthaste. With the new NCAA grad transfer rules, the only reason a midmajor program should ever redshirt a kid is due to injury. Otherwise all we're doing is setting ourselves up to be pillaged of good senior players by P5 programs. If a kid gets hurt and misses a year and that makes them eligible to go into the grad transfer portal (a la Smits after this year), then fine, so be it, but we shouldn't be actively helping that process out.

But the more important reason is this -- assuming we won't have "room" for a particular player at the start of any season is incredibly short-sighted. We've had *major* injuries sideline key guys in four of the past five seasons. This is the third straight season we've had to play extended periods of time with only 8 guys dressed due to injuries. But sure, let's sideline a healthy player for "roster crunch" reasons and make sure we are ridiculously thin every time someone gets hurt.

To be clear, I'm not singling out the poster I'm responding to here -- midmajor programs and their fans need to RADICALLY re-think the way they think about and handle redshirts in this new era, but particularly so for a program that's been as injury-prone as ours has over the past several years.

I was one who said a redshirt might make sense, but you make a lot of compelling arguments.  Another reason is that with so many seniors on next year's squad, Lottich won't have to worry about keeping those guys happy with PT (they can't go anywhere) and can play the younger guys if they can help.  I'm think I'm switching camps.

[VU2014]

Full game video of Kahok vs Alton.  Like these longer videos rather than just short highlight clips. Clay plays the perimeter primarily on offense. It appears that after the big fight Alton played more zone because of player suspensions with Clay playing the middle.  IMO the kid has a good motor and has a lot of tools and potential. When he matures and develops physically he could be a very good player.  I think this is a real steal for VU.

 

Here are 2 other videos of complete game highlights of Alton games.

Watched the second video. A couple thoughts: he definitely has upside on offense. Solid shot and he was pretty comfortable driving it to the rim. On defense it was tougher to get a sense of what he can be because he was defending the post and was a little out of position. I'm not sure if he'll be a great on ball defender right away. He might still be adjusting to his new height but guys could take him off the dribble but good coaching could help alieviate that. He's also didn't look like a guy I'd want being your primary court distributor (as of right now) but he handled the ball well. He's going to need to get stronger and I'm sure that will come with time. Nice looking jump shot. Also some upside for being a pretty good rebounder at the next level. You can't teach length and he has it and it could be a weapon at the next level. I didn't see Milik Yarborough caliber athleticism in that video though. Those are some of my observations from the very limited sample size I watched.

[bbtds]

Full game video of Kahok vs Alton. 

FYI, The Kahok team is from Collinsville, IL (Collinsville Kahoks)

The Southwestern (IL) Conference is

Alton Redbirds, Belleville East Lancers, Belleville West Maroons, Collinsville Kahoks, East St Louis Flyers (Lophonso Ellis), Edwardsville Tigers, Granite City Warriors, O'Fallon (IL) Panthers (Butler's Roosevelt Jones). I'm sure there are other well known former members of this conference you can think of.

[valpo64]

I think it is interesting what some of our posters have to say about D. Clay.  It sure sounds like he is a great catch but  are we expecting too much right off the bat...good shooter but......can rebound but....has length but maybe not the best  defender....call handle the ball but .... He looks to be a good find and will develope.  I remember that Alec Peters had some flaws when he was a frosh but the great thing is that the freshmen grow up to be sophs, etc.