Recruiting 2019

[FieldGoodie05]

I think it is interesting what some of our posters have to say about D. Clay.  It sure sounds like he is a great catch but  are we expecting too much right off the bat...good shooter but......can rebound but....has length but maybe not the best  defender....call handle the ball but .... He looks to be a good find and will develope.  I remember that Alec Peters had some flaws when he was a frosh but the great thing is that the freshmen grow up to be sophs, etc.

Generally agree but McMillan simply has not progressed.  Maybe due to infrequent playing time or whatever, but he's not shown much maturation in his limited minutes to me.

[SanityLost17]

It is in both Valpo and Clay's best interest for him to redshirt.

No, no, no, no, no, NO. And this isn't just you -- everyone on this board needs to stop making this argument, posthaste. With the new NCAA grad transfer rules, the only reason a midmajor program should ever redshirt a kid is due to injury. Otherwise all we're doing is setting ourselves up to be pillaged of good senior players by P5 programs. If a kid gets hurt and misses a year and that makes them eligible to go into the grad transfer portal (a la Smits after this year), then fine, so be it, but we shouldn't be actively helping that process out.

But the more important reason is this -- assuming we won't have "room" for a particular player at the start of any season is incredibly short-sighted. We've had *major* injuries sideline key guys in four of the past five seasons. This is the third straight season we've had to play extended periods of time with only 8 guys dressed due to injuries. But sure, let's sideline a healthy player for "roster crunch" reasons and make sure we are ridiculously thin every time someone gets hurt.

To be clear, I'm not singling out the poster I'm responding to here -- midmajor programs and their fans need to RADICALLY re-think the way they think about and handle redshirts in this new era, but particularly so for a program that's been as injury-prone as ours has over the past several years.

I already countered all your points before you made them.

1.  If everyone is back next year we have enough depth even with 3 injuries.

2.  3 years is 3 years.   Sits on the bench the first year and gets in maybe 4 games then plays 3 years OR red shirts 1st year plays 3 years and then maybe decides to transfers.   Literally the same exact scenario except there is only one example where he has the chance to play 4 years of quality minutes. 

There, I win you, you are welcome.

[Valpofan15]

100% best to redshirt him. Maybe I'm missing something but besides the drake game this year when was they "extended time" with only 8 available players the last 3 years? Can't run your program around the possibility of injury. People get hurt it's Athletics no point in having a freshman sit the bench and lose eligibility.

[VU2014]

100% best to redshirt him. Maybe I'm missing something but besides the drake game this year when was they "extended time" with only 8 available players the last 3 years? Can't run your program around the possibility of injury. People get hurt it's Athletics no point in having a freshman sit the bench and lose eligibility.

Valpofan15, welcome to the board!

[FieldGoodie05]

100% best to redshirt him. Maybe I'm missing something but besides the drake game this year when was they "extended time" with only 8 available players the last 3 years? Can't run your program around the possibility of injury. People get hurt it's Athletics no point in having a freshman sit the bench and lose eligibility.

Valpofan15, welcome to the board!

I respectfully disagree regarding Redshirts, not the "welcome to the board!" sentiment though 😉😉😉

I don't give a ____ about depth and projections of 3 hurt player cushions...I care about next man up.  Who would've thought any freshmen would contribute out the gate.  The fact is that we don't know what we can expect until game time is had.

WHY ELSE DID MCMILLAN OR HAZEN GET STARTERS MINUTES TO START A SEASON!?!?  In the case of Hazen he was touted as the real deal and sadly it was incorrect.  Why should Valpo or Parker have to wait a season to find out what was best? 

Out of the frying pan and into the fire is the only way to know what we've got.  And I'm sorry all, we PAY our players to come to Valpo through scholarship and they should expect to do anything and everything our coach deems necessary to win.

We will be no richer for height and length on next years team (exception Robinson) so a player with a 6'7" frame is highly valuable despite any junk predictions of what next years team will consist of.

RED SHIRTS are for P6 elite programs.

[Valpofan15]

I think Hazen and McMillan both started at times last year because they were the only natural options at the 4. Not because of players injured or even suspended. Hazen started even before Burton left.

[VUGrad1314]

100% best to redshirt him. Maybe I'm missing something but besides the drake game this year when was they "extended time" with only 8 available players the last 3 years? Can't run your program around the possibility of injury. People get hurt it's Athletics no point in having a freshman sit the bench and lose eligibility.

Valpofan15, welcome to the board!

I respectfully disagree regarding Redshirts, not the "welcome to the board!" sentiment though 😉😉😉 I don't give a ____ about depth and projections of 3 hurt player cushions...I care about next man up.  Who would've thought any freshmen would contribute out the gate.  The fact is that we don't know what we can expect until game time is had. WHY ELSE DID MCMILLAN OR HAZEN GET STARTERS MINUTES TO START A SEASON!?!?  In the case of Hazen he was touted as the real deal and sadly it was incorrect.  Why should Valpo or Parker have to wait a season to find out what was best? Out of the frying pan and into the fire is the only way to know what we've got.  And I'm sorry all, we PAY our players to come to Valpo through scholarship and they should expect to do anything and everything our coach deems necessary to win. We will be no richer for height and length on next years team (exception Robinson) so a player with a 6'7" frame is highly valuable despite any junk predictions of what next years team will consist of. RED SHIRTS are for P6 elite programs.

Belmont disagrees with your philosophy on redshirts

[valpolaw]

I also don't think he should redshirt. Valpo normally doesn't recruit people to red shirt right off the bat, right? Hell, we started Parker hazen last year and he's gotta be better than him. I'd say a lot of playing time could be up for grab next year, just like it has been the past two years. We haven't exactly dominated last year and so far this year. I can't imagine he would be coming to valpo planning on red shirting. He's probably hungry to compete for playing time and he should get his fair shot.

[FieldGoodie05]

100% best to redshirt him. Maybe I'm missing something but besides the drake game this year when was they "extended time" with only 8 available players the last 3 years? Can't run your program around the possibility of injury. People get hurt it's Athletics no point in having a freshman sit the bench and lose eligibility.

Valpofan15, welcome to the board!

I respectfully disagree regarding Redshirts, not the "welcome to the board!" sentiment though 😉😉😉 I don't give a ____ about depth and projections of 3 hurt player cushions...I care about next man up.  Who would've thought any freshmen would contribute out the gate.  The fact is that we don't know what we can expect until game time is had. WHY ELSE DID MCMILLAN OR HAZEN GET STARTERS MINUTES TO START A SEASON!?!?  In the case of Hazen he was touted as the real deal and sadly it was incorrect.  Why should Valpo or Parker have to wait a season to find out what was best? Out of the frying pan and into the fire is the only way to know what we've got.  And I'm sorry all, we PAY our players to come to Valpo through scholarship and they should expect to do anything and everything our coach deems necessary to win. We will be no richer for height and length on next years team (exception Robinson) so a player with a 6'7" frame is highly valuable despite any junk predictions of what next years team will consist of. RED SHIRTS are for P6 elite programs.

Belmont disagrees with your philosophy on redshirts

I'm not searching for their approval.  So there is that...

[bbtds]

The brawl that Alton got involved in during their own tournament on their own floor made the news that next day. Here is a report on the brawl that caused the tournament to be cancelled immediately from channel 4 KMOV St Louis:

https://www.kmov.com/news/video-brawl-breaks-out-during-alton-riverview-gardens-basketball-game/article_e2068b4c-effb-11e8-bdb8-eb1286921e4f.html

It's very evident that Donovan Clay wanted to get involved in the fighting but was dragged away but one of his coaches to the Alton bench area.

The opposing team was Riverview Gardens Senior HS which is near the area where the riots happened on West Florissant Ave. in Ferguson, MO in north St Louis County after the shooting of Michael Brown in 2014. Brown's shooting happened on Canfield Dr. next to the Canfield Green Apts.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Canfield+Green+Apartments,+Coppercreek+Road,+Ferguson,+MO/Riverview+Gardens+Senior+High+School,+1218+Shepley+Dr,+St.+Louis,+MO+63137/@38.7543733,-90.2620095,14z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x87df4989068289c7:0xeb701e66a24e7a8b!2m2!1d-90.2735448!2d38.7389755!1m5!1m1!1s0x87df4eb8330a3231:0xd3170f92a46dc475!2m2!1d-90.2134756!2d38.7551126!3e0

[craftyrighthander]

I  enjoy the banter.  Four days ago, we learn of Donovan Clay.  Now, we are having a full-fledged redshirt debate.  I love the enthusiasm.  He's got over two months before he can sign, so I figure we've got some time to decide his fate next year.

He plays in a conference that regularly produces DI talent (Pickett, Smith, and Tilmon all start at Mizzou right now, Hargrove is committed to SLU, and Liddell was Illinois Mr. Basketball as a junior).  He's shown well against good competition.  That's what I can add. 

[VU2014]

I don't think we're going to red-shirt him unless he completely raw and not prepared for D1 basketball. That doesn't appear to be the case with Clay. If the kid was a coveted top potential JUCO recruit that means he has some ability already. Just my 2cents.

[VU2014]

Akot is headed to Boise.

https://twitter.com/UtahProspects/status/1093633858153504768

[VUGrad1314]

This feels like one we could have had. Unless he really wanted to stay out west which is possible.

[VUBBFan]

Looks like there were problems with Chris Payton. May have dodged a bullet with him. Wild speculation on my part but this does not sound good for him as a team player.


https://www.pantagraph.com/sports/high-school/basketball/southern-illinois-recruit-chris-payton-leaves-bhs-basketball-team/article_6856cf9d-73f0-537b-8058-b788da608765.html#comments

[VU2014]

Looks like there were problems with Chris Payton. May have dodged a bullet with him. Wild speculation on my part but this does not sound good for him as a team player.


https://www.pantagraph.com/sports/high-school/basketball/southern-illinois-recruit-chris-payton-leaves-bhs-basketball-team/article_6856cf9d-73f0-537b-8058-b788da608765.html#comments

If Hinson gets canned at the end of season they might lose many recruits

[wh]

Looks like there were problems with Chris Payton. May have dodged a bullet with him. Wild speculation on my part but this does not sound good for him as a team player.


https://www.pantagraph.com/sports/high-school/basketball/southern-illinois-recruit-chris-payton-leaves-bhs-basketball-team/article_6856cf9d-73f0-537b-8058-b788da608765.html#comments

Reader's comment at the end of the article:

"I went to the first day of the Pontiac Holiday Tournament back in December and watched the BHS game. Before the fist half ends a guy sitting next to me says boy that Payton kid sure has a bad attitude on the court and in the team huddle. Wonder if Head Coach Barry Hinson at SIU knows what he recruited. I echoed the same thoughts with the guy. It will be interesting to see how long he sticks it out down at SIU."

[wh]

Hutton: Crown Point's Grant Gelon finds new life at Trinity International after leaving Indiana

https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/ct-ptb-spt-mike-hutton-column-st-0210-story.html

Gelon lost his scholarship at IU after a coaching change. Then the same thing happened to him at Missouri State following their coaching change. Finally, maybe things are going to work out for him.

[VU2014]

Hutton: Crown Point's Grant Gelon finds new life at Trinity International after leaving Indiana

https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/ct-ptb-spt-mike-hutton-column-st-0210-story.html

Gelon lost his scholarship at IU after a coaching change. Then the same thing happened to him at Missouri State following their coaching change. Finally, maybe things are going to work out for him.

He has certainly had a unique college experience on and off the court. It will only make him a mentally stronger individual. Hope everything works out for him

[VU2014]

Drake will have as many Region players as Valpo

https://twitter.com/theluvforball33/status/1096133571889295361?s=21

[VU2014]

Not sure we have a chance of landing him but Skogman got a offer from Vandy.

I still think we'll have another scholarship available, but that's speculation on my part. Maybe some others have some inside info or have heard some chatter.

https://twitter.com/dskogman42/status/1097299687462367232?s=21

[crusader05]

I havent' heard anything but I feel like a transfer a year really isn't unexpected.

I'd say our likeliest is Micah if we go based on playing time. But I think one of the two towers could be a possibility. I believe Smits is already working on his Masters so maybe that decreases his likelihood but his year might have a couple of schools sniffing around.

Bakari would probably be another possibility if he hadn't already red-shirted

The other intangible is personal issues/family stuff that can raise it's head, like with Clay Yeo. Sometimes you can't help it if a player just doesn't feel like they fit in the schoo/area or wants something different outside of the program.

[vu72]

I think we all could use a little "feel good" moment.  Take a look at Donovan's team highlights from the O'Fallon game.  He is kinda hard to miss and one play is flat out off the charts athletic.  We got a good one!

https://www.hudl.com/profile/8663096/Donovan-Clay

[FieldGoodie05]

I think we all could use a little "feel good" moment.  Take a look at Donovan's team highlights from the O'Fallon game.  He is kinda hard to miss and one play is flat out off the charts athletic.  We got a good one!

https://www.hudl.com/profile/8663096/Donovan-Clay

He dropped 20-pts in the second half last week to overcome a 19-14 first half deficit.  Though one person said much of it came inside (using his height to his advantage).

Man we just need a few shooters who can deliver 38-40% 3-pointers across a season...maybe that's too high for a season but the point stands.  Where's Seth Colclasure!?!?

[VU2014]

Need to give Coach Townsend credit for this one. I heard he was the primary recruiter and Lavender's positive experience at Valpo was selling point. Donovan and Lavender are from the same area. Relationships are everything in College Basketball. I've heard that Coach Townsend has become pretty close with Smits and other guys on the roster. He was an excellent addition to the staff.