Recruiting 2019

[zvillehaze]

That is true. Rumor is Alec Peters initially through his recruiment process really wanted to go to Butler and Butler "offered" but they landed a commitment from a kid they liked more & then Butler moved on from Alec. Then that kid that committed to Butler decommitted and Butler came running back to Alec saying they wanted him, but Alec said "thanks but no thanks". He commits to Valpo and the rest is history.

Not the story I heard, but if you heard it from Alec, then it may be true.

There are offers, then there are offers. Take Creighton for example. According to Verbal Commits, they have offered 21 players from the class of 2019. That's 5-7 times what they need. That many offers can't be unconditional. Xavier has offered 15 players. Butler 7. Etc. Etc.

Maybe I don't understand the recruiting process, but are you saying scholarship offers should be "unconditional"? 

[VU2014]

That is true. Rumor is Alec Peters initially through his recruiment process really wanted to go to Butler and Butler "offered" but they landed a commitment from a kid they liked more & then Butler moved on from Alec. Then that kid that committed to Butler decommitted and Butler came running back to Alec saying they wanted him, but Alec said "thanks but no thanks". He commits to Valpo and the rest is history.

Not the story I heard, but if you heard it from Alec, then it may be true.

There are offers, then there are offers. Take Creighton for example. According to Verbal Commits, they have offered 21 players from the class of 2019. That's 5-7 times what they need. That many offers can't be unconditional. Xavier has offered 15 players. Butler 7. Etc. Etc.

Maybe I don't understand the recruiting process, but are you saying scholarship offers should be "unconditional"? 

That's just the story I heard. I know Alec wanted to play for them early on his recruitment process and they were showing interest but they liked other guys more then him. Butler tried to come back into his recruitment after things didn't work out with other guys but he had already moved on.

I could be wrong but that's what I've heard.

Paul had Alec on his podcast and talked about his recruitment to Valpo. Valpo didn't immediately offer him but we normally don't because our staff tries to build relationships with kids before offering.

Offers from Valpo are actual offers and not just interest like many schools do these days. It seems that recruiting philosophy has continued during the Lottich era which is nice to see.

[wh]

That is true. Rumor is Alec Peters initially through his recruiment process really wanted to go to Butler and Butler "offered" but they landed a commitment from a kid they liked more & then Butler moved on from Alec. Then that kid that committed to Butler decommitted and Butler came running back to Alec saying they wanted him, but Alec said "thanks but no thanks". He commits to Valpo and the rest is history.

Not the story I heard, but if you heard it from Alec, then it may be true.

There are offers, then there are offers. Take Creighton for example. According to Verbal Commits, they have offered 21 players from the class of 2019. That's 5-7 times what they need. That many offers can't be unconditional. Xavier has offered 15 players. Butler 7. Etc. Etc.

Maybe I don't understand the recruiting process, but are you saying scholarship offers should be "unconditional"? 

Zville- Knowing you have 2 children who were scholarship athletes, I will defer to your knowledge on the subject.  So contrast 2 recruiting scenarios and share your thoughts.
Valpo does very targeted recruiting. Their list of offers is always very small. When they find a player they really want like Javon Freeman-Liberty, they put on a full court press, build relationships, and make their presence and interest known at every turn. Finally, Javon visited campus, fell in love, and the rest is history. That's what I'm referring to as "unconditional."  Contrast that with Xavier and it's 21 offers. What happens if all 21 say they'll accept Xavier's offer? Assuming they have 3 open slots, aren't they going to have to rescind the other 18? Or, more likely, haven't they segmented those 21 into groups with a preferred list at the top, with only players in the preferred group getting an immediate "welcome aboard" handshake when they verbally commit?  Aren't all the rest told we'll have to get back with you, or there's another recruit we're waiting to hear from, or worse we changed our mind. That's "conditional" recruiting.

In fact, isn't that exactly what happened to Alec Peters?  Butler offered him, he took his time, considered his options, then circled back and said I accept. Done deal? Hardly. If I recall correctly, he was told that they were waiting on a decision by Chrabascz. That turned Alec cold on Butler, as the story goes, so he continued to look, the offers continued to grow, and he ultimately signed with Valpo. I think we can rest assured that Valpo's response to his phone call saying "sign me up" was a little different than Butler's. Then again, Valpo doesn't issue tickets to 7 times more people than it has seats for. 

Thus, there are offers, and there are offers. What say you, my friend?

[zvillehaze]

That is true. Rumor is Alec Peters initially through his recruiment process really wanted to go to Butler and Butler "offered" but they landed a commitment from a kid they liked more & then Butler moved on from Alec. Then that kid that committed to Butler decommitted and Butler came running back to Alec saying they wanted him, but Alec said "thanks but no thanks". He commits to Valpo and the rest is history.

Not the story I heard, but if you heard it from Alec, then it may be true.

There are offers, then there are offers. Take Creighton for example. According to Verbal Commits, they have offered 21 players from the class of 2019. That's 5-7 times what they need. That many offers can't be unconditional. Xavier has offered 15 players. Butler 7. Etc. Etc.

Maybe I don't understand the recruiting process, but are you saying scholarship offers should be "unconditional"? 

Zville- Knowing you have 2 children who were scholarship athletes, I will defer to your knowledge on the subject.  So contrast 2 recruiting scenarios and share your thoughts.
Valpo does very targeted recruiting. Their list of offers is always very small. When they find a player they really want like Javon Freeman-Liberty, they put on a full court press, build relationships, and make their presence and interest known at every turn. Finally, Javon visited campus, fell in love, and the rest is history. That's what I'm referring to as "unconditional."  Contrast that with Xavier and it's 21 offers. What happens if all 21 say they'll accept Xavier's offer? Assuming they have 3 open slots, aren't they going to have to rescind the other 18? Or, more likely, haven't they segmented those 21 into groups with a preferred list at the top, with only players in the preferred group getting an immediate "welcome aboard" handshake when they verbally commit?  Aren't all the rest told we'll have to get back with you, or there's another recruit we're waiting to hear from, or worse we changed our mind. That's "conditional" recruiting.

In fact, isn't that exactly what happened to Alec Peters?  Butler offered him, he took his time, considered his options, then circled back and said I accept. Done deal? Hardly. If I recall correctly, he was told that they were waiting on a decision by Chrabascz. That turned Alec cold on Butler, as the story goes, so he continued to look, the offers continued to grow, and he ultimately signed with Valpo. I think we can rest assured that Valpo's response to his phone call saying "sign me up" was a little different than Butler's. Then again, Valpo doesn't issue tickets to 7 times more people than it has seats for. 

Thus, there are offers, and there are offers. What say you, my friend?

That's generally fair.  What's key to know is what's been communicated to the player.  To simplify, if a school has 1 spot open and need a power forward, they may identify 5 targets.  From there, if they have a clear #1 choice, they can offer him and maintain "interest" in the others, letting them know a future offer is possible.  If he declines or cools on the school, additional offer(s) may be extended.  If done correctly, the coach would explain that others are being pursued and that the offer will go away if someone else takes it.

Conversely, if all 5 are somewhat equal, the school may offer all five with the understanding that the offer is available to the first player accepting.  Once one accepts, the others know they no longer have an offer.  So yes, offers are given and rescinded based upon fluid circumstances.  This may seem harsh, but my contention is that recruits understand offers can have a limited shelf life.

The issue I see with "unconditional offers" is this ... imagine that Hemenway tells Valpo that he's not deciding until the spring of his Senior HS year?  In the meantime, he's offered by and visiting Xavier, IU and Purdue.  At what point is it ok for Valpo to offer that scholarship to another player?  Do they have to wait until he signs with another school?  Doesn't that mean they could miss out on several other players?

I can't speak for every program, but the "conditional recruiting" scenario you outlined doesn't exist at reputable schools.  In general, if you "offer" a kid, you should be prepared to honor it if he says yes on the spot.  Otherwise, don't offer.  You can explain that others are being considered and the offer could go away if someone else accepts, but at the time of offer, it's available.

Just my  .

[zvillehaze]

In fact, isn't that exactly what happened to Alec Peters?  Butler offered him, he took his time, considered his options, then circled back and said I accept. Done deal? Hardly. If I recall correctly, he was told that they were waiting on a decision by Chrabascz. That turned Alec cold on Butler, as the story goes, so he continued to look, the offers continued to grow, and he ultimately signed with Valpo. I think we can rest assured that Valpo's response to his phone call saying "sign me up" was a little different than Butler's.

If it happened as you describe, I agree it wasn't handled properly.  In any case, it worked out well for Alec and Valpo.

Then again, Valpo doesn't issue tickets to 7 times more people than it has seats for. 

Cameron Witt and Daniel Relvao?   

[wh]

Cameron Witt and Daniel Relvao?   

We overbook 1 flight, 1 time, and you remember not only that it happened, but the offended parties' names, as well. Amazing! 

[zvillehaze]

Cameron Witt and Daniel Relvao?   

We overbook 1 flight, 1 time, and you remember not only that it happened, but the offended parties' names, as well. Amazing! 

  Maybe Relvao was flying standby when the flight filled up.   

[vusupporter]

Interesting to note that Relvao left George Mason to go back to Europe before this season started.

[zvillehaze]

So, it would appear that wh and I already had this discussion 5 years ago.  You have to admit I nailed the "he'd be a really nice player at Valpo" comment. 

Per the Indy Star...

Butler, Peters move on
Written by David Woods

It doesn't appear that Alec Peters, a 6-foot-8 wing from Washington, Ill., will become a Butler basketball player.

Peters' high school coach, Kevin Brown, said in an e-mail that Butler's offer "had some strings attached with it due to them needing 2013 scholarships for other positions." Translated, that means coach Brad Stevens is targeting guards now that two post players, Nolan Berry and Andrew Chrabascz, have committed to the Bulldogs.


Butler almost always has a surplus of guards, so it's possible the Peters situation could be revisited. For now, Butler is seemingly looking at the 2013 guards mentioned previously –5-foot-8 point Tahj Shamsid-Deen, Decatur, Ga.; 6-foot-1 Kyle Davis, Chicago, and 6-foot-2 Jaylon Tate, Chicago.

Peters played for the Peoria Irish summer team. He originally had mostly mid-major offers but is now attracting attention from high majors.  A Chicago blogger labeled him "the best pure shooter" in Illinois' 2013 class. He comes from the same high school as former Indiana University 3-point specialist Matt Roth.

Peters visited Boston College last weekend and has visits scheduled to Valparaiso, St. Louis and Illinois State. His high school coach said Peters turned down offers from Air Force, Utah and Washington State and has picked up interest from Tennessee and Missouri.

Of Peters, coach Brown wrote:

"Coach stevens was very honest with us and we all have a tremendous amout of respect for him. He is an incredible coach and person. At this time as much as he likes coach stevens and butler he is looking at his other options with immediate scholarships. I do not want to go into exact details with scholarship."

This article tells "the rest of the story" but not the full story.  When Peters was offered at the end of July there were 2 scholarships available.  They were looking for one front court player and one back court.  Had Peters accepted then (which he didn't), he would be a Bulldog right now.  Instead, 4 days later another similar type player from RI accepted, which left Peters out in the cold.  Happens all the time- first come, first serve. 

I point this out because the article makes it sound like they made him some sort of conditional offer, which they did not.

Agree with wh ... kids know that offers may go away if other players accept first.

As for Peters, I've heard very good things about him and think he'd be a really nice player at Valpo.  I thought he would've been a good fit at Butler, but they just ran out of scholarships.  In one of his earlier interviews, he mentioned that he wanted to have a chance to play right away.  With Valpo graduating Broekhoff, KVW and others, there should be an opportunity to sell him on the chance for immediate playing time.  Good luck.

[valpotx]

I had wondered what happened with Relvao at Mason.  Sounds like we made the correct call in honoring another year for Vashil in more ways that just getting to the NIT title game!

[VU2014]

VHS Star Brandon Newman was in the building for the Utah State game.
https://twitter.com/RobBehrend/status/935716926759882757

[VU2014]

Bryce and Rodger are continuing to recruit the Canada. It looks like Coach Lottich's staff has continued to recruit Canada. They made a recruiting stop there this Fall and offered Quincy Guerrier (Montréal) and is reportedly showing interest in another one of his teammates.
https://twitter.com/Elias_NPH/status/938039250217553920

[VU2014]

Brandon Newman is a stud. Don't let this kid leave town.
https://twitter.com/RobBehrend/status/944375413593296896
https://twitter.com/GlennMariniWANE/status/944396583109611520

[bbtds]

Brandon Newman is a stud. Don't let this kid leave town.
https://twitter.com/RobBehrend/status/944375413593296896
https://twitter.com/GlennMariniWANE/status/944396583109611520

I see Newman and VHS is playing at Grace College against Fishers (voted #1 community to live in the US) and Zionsville at 11:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. Eastern respectively on Saturday, 12/30/17. Grace isn't too far a drive for many Indiana VU fans.

Champions of Character Classic

http://indianahsbasketball.homestead.com/files/tny108.htm

I wonder how Grace manages to host a high school holiday tournament. Grace must be NAIA? Is it only prohibited by the NCAA?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Grace+College/@41.2272708,-85.8569534,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x88169dbdc88f78ed:0x70934a5ab77f41c1!8m2!3d41.2272668!4d-85.8219345

https://www.webcams.travel/webcam/1278718112-Weather-Dave%27s-Winona-Lake-Webcam-Winona-Lake

http://gclancers.com/sports/2013/5/15/GEN_0515135713.aspx

[VULB#62]

Pretty cool arena for a small school. Like the alum suite.

[zvillehaze]

I see Newman and VHS is playing at Grace College against Fishers (voted #1 community to live in the US) and Zionsville at 11:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. Eastern respectively on Saturday, 12/30/17. Grace isn't too far a drive for many Indiana VU fans.

Obscure facts:  Zionsville coach Shaun Busick attended Grace College at the same time as former Valpo player, Scott Blum, now the Grace Women's coach.  Busick was also the high school coach of Valpo's Seth Colclasure.   

[VU2014]

I see Newman and VHS is playing at Grace College against Fishers (voted #1 community to live in the US) and Zionsville at 11:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. Eastern respectively on Saturday, 12/30/17. Grace isn't too far a drive for many Indiana VU fans.

Obscure facts:  Zionsville coach Shaun Busick attended Grace College at the same time as former Valpo player, Scott Blum, now the Grace Women's coach.  Busick was also the high school coach of Valpo's Seth Colclasure.   

I'm not sure we have a shot at Zionsville's Isaiah Thompson, but that is another kid who is going to be a stud. It will be interesting to see if the Valpo Basketball staff will even offer.

The only Indiana kid from the class of 2019 that we've offered has been Alex Hemenway and that is a moonshot offer.

[M]

Lottich was watching Brandon Newman absolutely destroy Portage tonight.

[VU2014]

Lottich was watching Brandon Newman absolutely destroy Portage tonight.

He looks like a heck of a player!

[FieldGoodie05]

Lottich was watching Brandon Newman absolutely destroy Portage tonight.

Is he playing any decent competition in the Duneland Conference?

Also, how many SG can we offer?

He looks like a heck of a player!

[Pgmado]

I saw Brandon Newman for the first time tonight in a varsity game.

Sign him up.

[VU2014]

Lottich was watching Brandon Newman absolutely destroy Portage tonight.

Is he playing any decent competition in the Duneland Conference?

Also, how many SG can we offer?

He looks like a heck of a player!

There is always room for good players regardless of position. Plus there really won't be that many Guards on the team. Javon would be a sophomore by the time he was here and Micah would be a senior and as well as Golder who is more of a swing guy anyways. Kiser would be a senior as well.

[valpopal]

I saw Brandon Newman for the first time tonight in a varsity game.

Sign him up.

...and fill up the ARC with fans from the community.

[valpopal]

Lottich was watching Brandon Newman absolutely destroy Portage tonight.

Nebraska had an assistant coach at the game to watch Newman as well.

[VU2014]

Lottich was watching Brandon Newman absolutely destroy Portage tonight.

Nebraska had an assistant coach at the game to watch Newman as well.