2016-17 Rankings

[oklahomamick]

I truly believe if the Athletics Department put an aggressive campaign towards the Valley, the valley would take us.  Some will say that wasn't the case 4 years ago, so why would they want us now?  I think we have shown more consistency in the showcase sport. 

[agibson]

Still waiting for the full results to be processed but it looks like Couch (Lansing) went with Davis (CBS/SI) and took us all the way to #22. While Alexander (Cleveland) and McCoy (Columbus) both dropped us. Meaning someone else brought us in at #25.

Collegepolltraker.com got it back together, and "somebody else" turns out to be Kelly Hines. Looks to be a beat writer for University of Tulsa. First I remember her ever voting for us. Bring it on!

Oakland continues to move up the mid-major poll. That's a remarkable number of RPI 200+ wins they've got. I guess noone will consciously hold a loss at Michigan State against them, but X-2 will look less shiny. It'll be interesting to see if they can hold serve against Wright State and Northern Kentucky when League play opens. Otherwise, Georgia coming to the O'Rena seems like a great game to get, and a good test. And their big test will be at the ARC.

[valpo64]

VU now 5th in cbi mid-major poll.

[agibson]

VU now 5th in cbi mid-major poll.

Which one is this? I'm not sure I know it.

http://www.midmajormadness.com/2016/12/12/13926570/mid-major-madness-power-rankings-gonzaga-bulldogs-unanimous-number-one-wichita-state-saint-marys
has us at #5 also.

[talksalot]

Here's the link to the one I posted yesterday...

http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php

[EddieCabot]

The HL has fallen to 20th in conference RPI. There are 26 conferences outside of the Big 5 plus the Big East. Of those 26, the HL is in the bottom half (14th). We are now in Low Major territory.

At least above the Summit. They've got _two_ teams that haven't yet recorded a D1 win.

A D- is always better than an F. 

LeCrone has definitely dropped the ball.  The league had several teams win NCAA tournament games and totaled 20 wins from 2001 to 2011.  LeCrone didn't leverage this and let the league crumble in front of our eyes.  With that NCAAT money all but dried up, LeCrone made a desperation money grab in moving the tourney to Detroit, and in the process, kept the league's best team out of the tourney.

Valpo needs to either get a new commissioner with new ideas in place or move forward with plans to find another conference. 

[VU2014]

Horizon League Power Rankings: The one month in edition
Valpo and Oakland remain at the top, but the rest of the conference has shuffled.
by Andrew Evans@andyevans16  Dec 13, 2016, 12:12pm PST


The last time we took a stab at ranking the Horizon League teams was before the season began. At that point, Valparaiso and Oakland seemed to be the front runners with the rest of the pack chasing them.

Now that we are a month deep into the season, it's time to take another look at the Horizon League. Valparaiso and Oakland have lived up to, if not exceeded, their preseason expectations. They remain atop the rankings but the remainder of the conference has seen a shakeup:

Power Rankings
1. Valparaiso Crusaders (8-2)
Preseason: #1

Valparaiso came into the year with high expectations and have lived up to them. The Crusaders already have three KenPom top-100 wins (Alabama, BYU, and Rhode Island). The win over Rhode Island was the program's first over a ranked opponent since 1998, and dispelled any concerns about how the team would transition with new head coach Matt Lottich at the helm. Alec Peters continues to carry the team on offense, averaging 25.3 points and 9.2 rebounds per game. If they can heat up from three-point range they will be even more dangerous.

This Week: 12/17 vs. Indiana State

2. Oakland Golden Grizzlies (9-1)
Preseason: #2

Oakland boasts the best record in the Horizon League and finally climbed into the Mid-Major Madness Power Rankings. Martez Walker has stepped up as the Golden Grizzlies' leading scorer, averaging 18.5 points per game, while Stevie Clark has averaged over six assists per game. It has been a group effort as Oakland tries to replace Kay Felder's production. It's worked out so far, but Oakland lacks a quality win. All of its wins are against teams rated higher than 200 in the KenPom standings. Until Oakland proves itself against quality competition, it will be difficult to vault Valparaiso.

This Week: None

3. Northern Kentucky Norse (7-3)
Preseason: #7

The Norse have moved themselves up from their preseason rank. They've won four in a row after a .500 start, and four of their seven wins have come on the road. Drew McDonald leads the team in both scoring and rebounding, averaging 18.3 points and 7.9 rebounds a game. However, it was Lavone Holland II who led the Norse to two wins this past week en route to being named Horizon League Player of the Week. The knock against the Norse is similar to the knock on Oakland: they don't have a top-200 win. Despite this, their experience winning away from home should come in handy come league play.

This Week: 12/18 vs. Eastern Washington

4. Wright State Raiders (6-4)
Preseason: #6

The Raiders got off to a hot start, beginning the year 6-1. They've cooled off substantially, dropping three in a row. If it's any consolation, the three losses came on the road. The Raiders have proven they can win at home, sweeping a three game tournament at the Nutter Center against CSU Bakersfield, North Dakota and North Florida. Mark Alstork leads the Raiders in scoring with 20.7 points per game, but also turns the ball over more than five times a game. They'll need him to take better care of the ball to get back to their winning ways.

This Week: 12/13 vs. Urbana, 12/18 @ Kent State

5. Green Bay Phoenix (4-5)
Preseason: #3

It's been a disappointing start for the Phoenix as they look to defend their Horizon League tournament title. Like Valparaiso, Green Bay has struggled shooting the three at just 28 percent as a team. Unlike the Crusaders, though, it has cost Green Bay in the win column. The Phoenix were blown out in an early road game against Pacific and haven't been able to find consistency since. They can claim a better win than either Oakland and Northern Kentucky, since they defeated Toledo on the road. However, the losses are starting to pile up. Freshman Trevor Anderson has been a bright spot thus far; he's second on the team in scoring and is shooting just under 40 percent from three.

This Week: 12/14 @ Wisconsin, 12/17 vs. Belmont

6. Milwaukee Panthers (4-6)
Preseason: #10

The Panthers have been surprisingly competitive. With no returning starters, it was difficult to expect anything from Milwaukee. Solid three-point shooting led to wins over Jacksonville and Montana State, while a staunch defense allowed them to beat UC Irvine. While Brock Stull and Cody Wichmann have led an inexperienced group, Milwaukee isn't threatening the top of the league any time soon. But, they could take advantage of a weak bottom half of the conference to exceed preseason expectations.

This Week: 12/14 @ Ohio, 12/17 vs. Western Illinois

7. Youngstown State Penguins (5-6)
Preseason: #8

The Penguins have the only KenPom top-100 win of any team in the conference that isn't Valparaiso. They opened up the year with an impressive win at home against Akron. However, they've also racked up some questionable losses, most recently a double-digit loss to American. It's hard not to view the win over Akron as a fluke at this point, but that win does show that the Penguins can be dangerous in the right circumstances. With one of the best scorers in the league in Cameron Morse, the Penguins can't be taken lightly.

This Week: 12/14 vs. Niagara

8. Cleveland State Vikings (3-6)
Preseason: #9

The Vikings are still in rebuilding mode. They have a decent win at home over Canisius, but they still haven't won a game away from the Wolstein Center. Rob Edwards is following up a solid freshman season by averaging over 15 points per game. Most notably, Edwards dropped 28 points in a loss to Kentucky at Rupp Arena. Edwards is the future for Cleveland State, but the Vikings don't seem ready to compete with the top half of the league yet.

This Week: 12/17 @ Ohio

9. Illinois Chicago Flames (4-5)
Preseason: #5

Much was made about the Flames' freshman class. They're talented, but have struggled to find an identity. Dikembe Dixson is clearly the star, scoring 22.2 points per game. Freshman Marcus Ottey has also impressed by averaging double figure scoring. Despite their efforts, UIC's best win has come against Cal Poly. This team has potential and is an improvement over last year, when they finished with just five wins and didn't beat a Div. 1 opponent until Jan. 30. More is expected, and they're are a team to keep an eye on as conference play approaches.

This Week: 12/14 @ DePaul, 12/17 vs. Loyola Chicago

10. Detroit Titans (1-9)
Preseason: #4

It's still early, but I'm willing to admit I was wrong about Detroit. I had them finishing fourth in my preseason predictions, but a month into the season they're still without a win against Div. 1 competition. Detroit probably isn't quite as bad as their record suggests, however. Seven of their ten games have been on the road, and four of those were against KenPom top-100 opponents. At this point it seems likely they'll finish near the bottom of the league, but could still dig themselves out.

This Week: 12/17 vs. Western Kentucky

http://www.midmajormadness.com/2016/12/13/13931784/horizon-league-power-rankings-the-one-month-in-edition-valpo-oakland-alec-peters-crusaders-norse

[VU2014]

Valpo needs to either get a new commissioner with new ideas in place or move forward with plans to find another conference.

Just with the last few years many of the conferences having been consolidating and adding/subtracting school from conferences. Pretty much has to do with TV rights and trying to breakthrough the market in different geographical regions. I just don't see a Valpo switching conferences anytime in the near future. It's just hard to find the right fit geographically. From a basketball program perspective I'd love it if we could join the A10 or MVC, but MVC has been down since losing Creighton. The now crown jewel of the MVC is Wichita State which wants out of the MVC and wants an invite into the new Big East, which is made up mostly of private schools.


In a perfect scenario I'd like to see new Midwest Mid-Major conference be formed, and just pluck all the top mid-major programs from other conferences to make one "elite" mid-major conference: Valpo, Belmont, Northern Iowa, Dayton, SLU, VCU, SJU, Wichita State, etc. Travel would have to factor in, but its just a pipe dream anyways.

[M]

Our resident Milwaukee and Oakland fans aren't going to be happy with your list 😂

[oklahomamick]

but MVC has been down since losing Creighton.

RPI has them currently a top 10 conference.  HL is in the third tier....

I'm not a large donor but wish the donors would put pressure on the athletic department to be more aggressive in seeking the MVC or forcing a better hand for the HL. 

[a3uge]

Valpo needs to either get a new commissioner with new ideas in place or move forward with plans to find another conference.

Just with the last few years many of the conferences having been consolidating and adding/subtracting school from conferences. Pretty much has to do with TV rights and trying to breakthrough the market in different geographical regions. I just don't see a Valpo switching conferences anytime in the near future. It's just hard to find the right fit geographically. From a basketball program perspective I'd love it if we could join the A10 or MVC, but MVC has been down since losing Creighton. The now crown jewel of the MVC is Wichita State which wants out of the MVC and wants an invite into the new Big East, which is made up mostly of private schools.


In a perfect scenario I'd like to see new Midwest Mid-Major conference be formed, and just pluck all the top mid-major programs from other conferences to make one "elite" mid-major conference: Valpo, Belmont, Northern Iowa, Dayton, SLU, VCU, SJU, Wichita State, etc. Travel would have to factor in, but its just a pipe dream anyways.

The MVC has 7 NCAA tournament wins in the 3 years since Creighton left. Creighton has 1. The MVC consistently has multiple bids, ranked teams, and multiple teams in the top 100 RPI, even without Creighton. Wichita State isn't going anywhere due to a lack of a football team and their geographical position. Their budget is high enough to keep one of the best coaches in the country, which will keep them as a Gonzaga-like program for years to come. UNI also has a great coach, and has been a consistent program for the past few years. Even beyond that, in the past 10 years, Drake has been ranked, Southern Illinois has been ranked with a S16 appearance, Missouri State had a top 25 RPI season, Bradley has been to the S16, Indiana State has been top 100 RPI multiple times, and Evansville just recently became fairly competitive, almost making it to the tournament last year.

The MVC would make a ton of sense for Valpo (that have to want us first), and I think it would make sense for them as well.

The A10 does NOT make sense from both sides. Geographically, it would require a ton of cost just on travel. Do we really want the softball team traveling to Rhode Island for conference games? We'd be draining what little athletic revunes and donations we have, just in straight travel. For the A10, they'd be gaining a basketball team that hasn't been ranked ever, and hasn't had an NCAA tournament win since 1998. They'd also be gaining some poor teams in other sports, such as women's basketball. It just doesn't make sense on either side.

Finally, I don't see the support or feasibility for a new conference like they. The A10 schools wouldn't move laterally like that. I can't really see the MVC schools moving either. There's a ton of costs on both sides that come with the creation of a new conference, and I don't really see a huge TV contact with those schools.

[zvillehaze]

Wichita State isn't going anywhere due to a lack of a football team and their geographical position.

I thought the same thing, but the rumors keep coming.  Here's a story I just saw today:

http://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/sources-wichita-state-emerges-potential-basketball-addition-aac/

[VULB#62]

And here is a link to the recently completed (June 2016) 69 page consultant's report on WSU football feasibility. 

http://webs.wichita.edu/depttools/depttoolsmemberfiles/wsunews/wsu_football_report_css_2016.pdf

They are seriously considering restoring FB sooner than later.  The big question is whether to go FCS or FBS.  The former is less expensive but might not generate as much income.  The latter is very expensive both in initial startup as well as ongoing costs, but the revenue upside is a bit better. Either decision would require the additional cost of adding new women's sports to meet Title IX proportionality requirements.  If they choose FCS, there is a simple solution:  The Missouri Valley FB conference, which already includes many of the MVC basketball schools. With that the MVC would probably remain unchanged with WSU remaining.  If they decide to go FBS, they would have to receive an invitation from one of the following Group of 5 conferences: American, Mountain West, C-USA, MAC, Sunbelt.

My bet is they'll restore FB, go FCS, and stay in the Valley.

[VU2014]

The MVC would make a ton of sense for Valpo (that have to want us first), and I think it would make sense for them as well.

I believe it was 3-4 years ago when MVC officials were on campus scouting Valpo as a possible new candidate to get an invite. I remember everyone on campus thought we were going to move to the MVC, and all the students were really excited. It was extremely disappointing when everyone found out we weren't getting an invite. I remember talking to a few people "in the know" who said some of the main sticking points on why we didn't get the invite was the lackluster athletic facilities (not just the arena) (I know people are tired of that discussion, but its somewhat an important factor), the MVC wanted to tap in the Chicagoland area for recruiting (Loyola got the invite) and strategically gain viewership for TV for the regional markets.

Another somewhat funny story from a former students perspective was when President Heckler sent out multiple emails to the student body and through social media about a huge surprise announcement a few years back around the time we were still being rumored as possible candidate to join the MVC. President Heckler very publicly hyped up the announcement for about a week and everyone thought it was surprise was that we were switch conferences, and then it turns out the big announcement was the first annual 'VU Day of Caring' haha. Wow the student body was so irked by that haha. Everyone thought it was either a new building announcement (New ARC, etc.) or the conference. Some students were particularly irked because a mass email got sent out that day asking them to Donate to the VU Day of Caring Fund, while they were also currently paying tuition and paying down student loans.

[oklahomamick]

As conference play nears, there will be no top 100 opportunities.  For the next two and half months we can only lose ground.....  

[ml2]

I'm sure there's a conference realignment thread this could be moved to, but since the conversation is happening here, I thought this information might be useful to those who are thinking about the possibilities. Below is a table showing which teams have earned at-large bids to the NCAA tournament from the MVC and A10 over the last 12 seasons (automatic qualifiers are not shown).

Year	MVC	A10
2016	Wichita St	VCU, Dayton
2015	Wichita St	Dayton, Davidson
2014	None	VCU, Dayton, SLU, UMass, George Washington
2013	Wichita St	VCU, LaSalle, Butler*, Temple
2012	Wichita St	Xavier*, SLU
2011	None	Xavier*, Temple
2010	None	Xavier*, Richmond
2009	None	Xavier*, Dayton
2008	None	St. Joseph's, Xavier*
2007	SIU	Xavier*
2006	Bradley, Wichita St, UNI	George Washington
2005	SIU, UNI	None
*No longer in league.

[VU2014]

As conference play nears, there will be no top 100 opportunities.  For the next two and half months we can only lose ground.....

To be honest I always thought our path the NCAA tourney was through the Dumpster Fire Conference Tournament in Detroit created by LeCrone (The system was fine the way it was before, by awarding the Conference Tourney to the winner of the Conference player in the regular season. It helped reward the best team in the conference, to put the best showing in the NCAA Tourney. That Detroit tourney is such an unforgivable mess by LeCrone. Nobody wants to travel to Detroit of all places to watch a game. Plus its a very awkward environment to play a game.)

We have some good non-conference play wins against BYU, Alabama, RI and Missouri State on the road, and we've play against high RPI teams like Kentucky and Oregon. Thats a solid resume so far, but when you take a Macro view of the type of people who are on the selection committee which is so Power Conference biased its not fair, and are the mold of a Jay Bilas type...
https://twitter.com/ESPNCBB/status/809095202061295616
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/809107700256739328
Jay Bilas is intelligent guy, he is so Duke and Power Conference bias its appalling. I've followed his analysis for years and he very rarely gives any love to good Mid-Major programs bids to the NCAA tourney. If he was the Czar of the NCAA tourney he'd get rid of automatic conference bids. Definitely get the a sense of superiority and smugness.

[wh]

IMO talking about moving to the MVC is as big a waste of time as talking about upgrading the ARC and raising the profile of the HL - none are going to happen.

The MVC press release from
2013 announcing the addition of Loyola said, "Loyola is a world class university with world class facilities located in a world class city."  Valpo has a very good men's BB program and that's it. It has the worst athletic facilities in the HL and absolutely no institutional commitment to improving them, perpetually terrible women's BB and men's football programs, and is an annual McCafferty trophy bottom feeder (which tells you everything you need to know about the all-around quality of Valpo athletics).  Exactly what value would the MVC see in that resume? 

By the way, didn't Loyola win the McCafferty trophy the last year they were in the HL?  There's more to the image of a successful athletic department than men's basketball. Valpo's athletic department is far from a failure, but in sum total it is probably mediocre at best.

[vu72]

IMO talking about moving to the MVC is as big a waste of time as talking about upgrading the ARC and raising the profile of the HL - none are going to happen.

The MVC press release from
2013 announcing the addition of Loyola said, "Loyola is a world class university with world class facilities located in a world class city."  Valpo has a very good men's BB program and that's it. It has the worst athletic facilities in the HL and absolutely no institutional commitment to improving them, perpetually terrible women's BB and men's football programs, and is an annual McCafferty trophy bottom feeder (which tells you everything you need to know about the all-around quality of Valpo athletics).  Exactly what value would the MVC see in that resume? 

By the way, didn't Loyola win the McCafferty trophy the last year they were in the HL?  There's more to the image of a successful athletic department than men's basketball. Valpo's athletic department is far from a failure, but in sum total it is probably mediocre at best.

May have been a deliberate over statement or perhaps just a lack of interest in other sports.  But neither your statement  that Valpo doesn't have any other sports with success other than Men's Basketball as well as your statement that Valpo has the worst athletic facilities in the Horizon League are true. Just last year the Men's Tennis team won the conference championship and the Softball team won the conference tournament title to advance to the NCAAs. In 2012 both the baseball and softball teams played in the NCAA tournament.  Suffice it to say that there are additional athletics successes beyond Men's basketball.

To begin with, Valpo is the only school who even plays all the sports offered by the Horizon League.Valpo also has a bowling team.  You can't be the worst if other schools don't have any facilities with which to compare!  Examples:  Detroit and Green Bay don't have baseball teams.  Milwaukee doesn't have a softball team.  Detroit plays softball without a field.  Neither Oakland or Detroit have tracks.  Oakland doesn't have a tennis complex.  It plays on city courts.  I don't think you believe either Calahan or the Orena are better facilities than the ARC.

The reality is that overall, YSU and UIC probably has the best facilities.  Obviously, they are a state schools. Seven of the League's schools have enrollments of more than 15,000.  This compares to Valpo's undergrad enrollment of less than 4,000.  Only Green Bay at 6,549 and Detroit at 5,700 are similar in enrollment.

Finally, remember that Valpo and YSU are the only schools sponsoring football.  It is a big cost and does limit spending in other areas most likely.

[arsenal926]

**Oakland fan warning**

This may be the most surprising conversation I've read on this board. I think you all bring up some legitimate points about the athletic investing  that would  need to increase, but isn't that exactly what the MVC would provide for you? As far as the schools that would be interested in making a jump your "problems" seem far more easily fixed than the others. Not even sure who the others are. One of the Dakota schools, perhaps?

And as an aside, Oakland built a brand new Track and tennis complex. Though I'm not sure why we don't have a men's tennis team.
https://oakland.edu/recwell/recreation-facilities/outdoor-complex/

[crusaderjoe]

IMO talking about moving to the MVC is as big a waste of time as talking about upgrading the ARC and raising the profile of the HL - none are going to happen.

Agreed.  In fact, even considering the MVC or the A-10 as "possibilities" is also a bit ridiculous, unless the conversation is within the context of a realignment shift.

I've said it on the board before, and I'll say it again.  When Villanova, a private, FCS football school applied for ACC membership in 2011, that should have sounded the alarm bells at Valpo as far as conference affiliation was concerned.   IMO, Villanova's interest signaled absolute conference membership fluidity at both the major and mid major level.  I don't know if we put ourselves to be in the best position to be attractive to other conferences then.  I'm guessing we didn't, and so here VU is now.  Not that I think the HL is awful, but it's not a two bid league.

And since we're talking again about a fanciful move to the MVC, not to be sanctimonious, but I'm not even sure at this point whether a Wichita-less MVC would even be a complete step up for Valpo if it was invited to take WSU's place.  The move would make absolute sense if Valpo began valuing the public/private distinction again (if it ever did) as far as conference membership and affiliation was concerned.  But as far as multi-bids are concerned, all that at-large chart posted above did was reaffirm that right now WSU is to the MVC now what Butler once was to the HL a few years ago.  With WSU gone, would the MVC really be that far removed from the HL bid wise?  I'll let you experts figure that one out.

There is the potential for additional conference shifts in the future, and some might be major IMO, particularly if the Big 12 dismantles after its media agreements end; or, if something lesser occurs such as if C-USA somehow contracts or the Sun Belt expands, a minor shift may occur. During the interim, the dream scenario for those of you looking to leave the HL would be for the MVC to come a callin', add NMSU, keep WSU, and move to a 12 team, 6 west and 6 east divisional format. 

Regardless, it is sad that the most recent capital campaign offered $0.00 to firm ARC renovations given the potential for more realignment shifts in the future.  Valpo hasn't learned from recent history it would seem, IMO.

[justducky]

Reality is almost always less frightening than the unknown so lets think briefly about the known positives. 

We have some good non-conference play wins against BYU, Alabama, RI and Missouri State on the road, and we've play against high RPI teams like Kentucky and Oregon. Thats a solid resume so far

I just looked at the schedules for BYU, Alabama and RI. If they play some solid near term basketball I can see reasonable paths for all to make significant RPI jumps thus aiding our seeding potential. Alabama looked greatly improved at Oregon and BYU was impressive in their win over Colorado. We are ahead of our expectations and I remain optimistic this trend can continue. Our RPI even reached 31 earlier tonight! Maybe that was from the Alabama win? Yes I know it will soon start falling but I will worry about that later.

[agibson]

Regardless, it is sad that the most recent capital campaign offered $0.00 to firm ARC renovations

Small solace, I imagine. But, remember that the campaign isn't targeting -any- buildings. They're not picking on Athletics in particular here.

[bbtds]

It [football] is a big cost and does limit spending in other areas most likely.

Not for Valpo because of the non-scholarship aspect. Yes, there are costs but they don't hurt the other financial situations in the whole athletic dept that much.

[bbtds]

Though I'm not sure why we [Oakland] don't have a men's tennis team.

Most likely title IX balance between men's and women's sports.