Union Street Hoops

[valpotx]

I'm going to wait and see what Clay and JO say publicly about their reasons for leaving (if they do).  I only choose those two, as they are the ones that hurt a bit.  Clay for defense, and JO for offense.  I would assume that once they are officially gone, those that have more information on their given reasons, will be more keen to share it. 

I still support Lottich at this point. 

[VU2014]

I'm going to wait and see what Clay and JO say publicly about their reasons for leaving (if they do).  I only choose those two, as they are the ones that hurt a bit.  Clay for defense, and JO for offense.  I would assume that once they are officially gone, those that have more information on their given reasons, will be more keen to share it. 

I still support Lottich at this point. 

With Clay it's pretty obvious guys. He wanted to be a perimeter wing. Lottich didn't use him that way this season. And for good reason. He struggled with his jump shot. It's not to say Lottich wouldn't use him  as a wing in the future but he needs to develop that side of his game. That's a lot of offseason work he needs to put in

[valpotx]

Right, and if that is the case/reason, we can't put his transfer completely on Lottich.  If Clay would have hit his open looks, he would have played more in that position, versus the Swiss Army Knife that he became.

[vu72]

With Clay it's pretty obvious guys. He wanted to be a perimeter wing. Lottich didn't use him that way this season. And for good reason. He struggled with his jump shot. It's not to say Lottich wouldn't use him  as a wing in the future but he needs to develop that side of his game. That's a lot of offseason work he needs to put in

Could this be the same situation with JO?  We  were bringing in zero fives so it was going to be JO and Ben next year.  True, he could really shoot it and should have played more on the wing but both of these guys saw the field getting crowded with three potential 2/3 guys coming in the new class.  Now Matt needs to find a 4/5 in the transfer portal.

[wh]

Can we give the talk about adding Belmont and Murray State a rest? It's the equivalent of a lousy performer telling the boss you need to bring in some better people to help us be more productive. Embarrassing.

[bb33]

 I still would count us as having 3 real transfers (Clay JO and Daniel - who I will miss).  Clay and JO are the only two transfers who truly hurt.  The others' reasons for leaving are quite obvious.  Even Clay is obvious.   I wish him well, but we are missing the greatness he has in him, not the greatness that materialized consistently on the court.   And  JOs leaving could have nothing to do with the coaches at all. The coaches have lots of limitations as far as what they can do for the players.  I'm sure that they would change a lot of things if they could.  Sometimes a school is just not the right fit.   

I am not saying Lottich is a perfect coach, or doesn't have issues.  I do think we need to see what happens after a normal season.  This year was hard for everyone.   Our extra money should be put toward facility upgrades.  I heard the weight room could use some major improvements - and that would benefit all sports.

[EddieCabot]

[tweet]1390048407478231043[/tweet]

New USH podcast is out.  I can't wait to listen when I get time this evening.

[humbleopinion]

[tweet]1390048407478231043[/tweet]

New USH podcast is out.  I can't wait to listen when I get time this evening.

Zion laid it on the table.  Made me think. Great interview!

[valpopal]

I applaud Zion for his passion and his commitment, as well as his willingness to join his family's school and work in his community. However, I cannot accept much of a perception based upon fallacies, such as a suggestion that college athletes, including at Valpo, and pro athletes are in positions comparable to slavery or plantation existence. I understand other more prominent figures have made this claim in the past—NFL players like Richard Sherman, NBA players like Lebron James, sports reporters like Bryant Gumbel or Jemele Hill, and some college athletes, including Duke players—but such hyperbole diminishes one's perspective and indirectly trivializes the horror of slavery the way the Hitler fallacy or similar comparisons to the Holocaust undo arguments in other areas. I also question his diminution of a Valparaiso degree.

[wh]

The longer the interview went on, I began to see Zion as a bitter young man with a jaded view of life. That's sad.

I don't necessarily disagree with "his" truth, but "his" truth is only part of the "whole" truth. Negative energy focused on blame and victimization accomplishes nothing. Besides, there's a whole movement already devoted to accomplishing nothing. Hopefully, he gets it figured out, so he can become a positive force for change, something that's in short supply everywhere you turn these days. Now that would be impressive.

[vu72]

I have mixed emotions concerning some of the stuff he said.  Clearly I will never be able to put myself in the shoes of a black man.  Sounds like he is on the road to making himself a valued asset in his community and that is all any of us can ask for in life.  I do however think that an interview with Eron might come off quite differently.

[FWalum]

[tweet]1390048407478231043[/tweet]

New USH podcast is out.  I can't wait to listen when I get time this evening.

Zion laid it on the table.  Made me think. Great interview!

Very interesting interview. I feel sorry for Zion and any other athlete at Valpo or any other school who gets a scholarship but for whatever reason does not feel like they got an education or where forced into a specific track because they were an athlete. For someone who feels the call and responsibility to serve his community, which I wholeheartedly applaud, I am surprised that he didn't look into a field that would better serve that goal. We currently have, and also in the past have had, players who did more than Sports Management or the typical "athlete" majors. What better example than John Kiser do you need in order to know that the "system" does not determine what you become if you choose differently. He could have certainly done something in the area of education, criminal justice or social work that might have served his passion to help the "hood". I understand that this may not be an easy choice or the choice he feels he was culturally conditioned to make, but nonetheless it was his choice. If he truly feels that his "education" was a waste then he should own that responsibility and not blame the "system" just as he seems to now be telling others that they need to "own" the largely false narrative of getting to the "next level" in basketball.

It does seem that Zion is now becoming concerned about the social capital (where the social context in which one finds oneself embedded, things such as basketball, rap music, Nike's etc., strongly conditions one's achievement or lack thereof) of particularly young Black men. I hope that he finds working at his Parent's school very fulfilling and that he is able to impact his community in a positive way with some of the entrepreneurial endeavors he mentioned in the podcast.

He might find this discussion by Glenn Loury and John McWhorter useful The unintentional racism of educational anti-racism advocates

[IrishDawg]

Interviews like these are good.  Right or wrong, having your thoughts or preconceived notions challenged from a different perspective isn't a bad thing.  Hopefully he is able to be a positive influence for people no matter what he decides to do.

[Pgmado]

A few thoughts I have...

1) Zion is probably similar to a lot of college athletes in that he got lost in the shuffle with education. I've seen this first hand with transfers and the NCAA. My guess is he took certain classes at UNLV and then Wabash Valley that did or did not transfer to Valpo. Based on what transferred over probably dicatated what major he needed to pursue when he got to Valpo. The NCAA wants student-athletes to show they are on a Path to Graduate (I've capitalized this because it is an official term). Student-athletes need to show they are making progress toward their degree. From what Zion said in the interview, as he got older, his eyes started to open a bit more, and probably too late in the process for him to shift his major toward studying something of substance for what he wants to accomplish away from basketball. Many basketball players come to D1 schools with the idea of going pro and they don't always think about life away from basketball. By the time people shift that focus, it's often too late to take advantage of those academic opportunities. As for the comparison to Kiser, he came in with an academic plan. He stayed that course and basketball was a supplemental experience. I'd argue that Zion came into college with a plan of being a professional basketball player and his plan shifted as time went on.

2) The line about how an interview with Eron would be different shouldn't be a surprise. Eron has a brother who is part of that 0.03 percent who made it to the NBA. His and his families experience is likely different than anyone else who steps foot on Valpo's campus. I don't know about the neighborhood that Zion grew up in (other than what he alluded to in the interview) and I don't know about Eron's neighborhood either. What I do know is having a family member who has made millions and millions of dollars will definitely provide a different experience than someone who doesn't have access to that. It doesn't mean Zion's experience is any better or any worse than Eron's and vice versa.

3) Someone alluded to the word victim. Granted I was the one conducting the interview and oftentimes that proximity clouds the view, but I didn't hear Zion play the role of victim at all. One of the first words he said was "empowered." Maybe I'm mistaken here, but I don't think I was interviewing a victim. I was interviewing someone who has come to grips with a system that makes money on the backs of the players. He wasn't screaming "woe is me," he was simply pointing out his feelings that the system is broken.

4) I loved doing this interview and I love the conversation that comes from it. Whether or not he said things that people agree or disagree with, it is his experience. I've dealt with plenty of players over the years who only wanted to shoot a basketball and didn't want to open up. There were 17 guys on the roster last year. I wish I could do 17 of these interviews where the players would open up and be humans. The question is whether or not anyone would care what they have to say. Valpo Basketball player Zion Morgan is worth listening to. Is just Zion Morgan worth listening to? I certainly think so.

[vu72]

in that he got lost in the shuffle with education

Great point and no doubt made shifting gears a difficult option particularly for a D1 basketball player and time management.  There are certainly dozens of Valpo athletes who graduate with a degree in many areas except Sports Management.  It is a particular "favorite" however  for our Men's basketball team.  Might that be due to the fact that many may have come from a not so good high school yet we don't care about that so much  if they can hit the 3. I remember Homer lamenting the fact that a player he was after didn't make it past the admissions process.  Valpo is not an easy place to study.  If you look at the football team, there are a LOT of engineering and nursing majors

In hindsight, perhaps Zion would have been better off at a place like Chicago State.  Students "look" like him and he would have perhaps been more comfortable than in lily white Valpo and the issues he is now concerned with would have been front and center all the time.

[humbleopinion]

In hindsight, perhaps Zion would have been better off at a place like Chicago State. 

Perhaps that gets to his point.  If all of the best players from its neighborhood would stay home and play for Chicago State, what benefits would that accrue to the neighborhood?

[valpotx]

I get that Zion's path was different, and thus, his academic plans had to adjust, but it is still all on him.  If you think that Valpo is making money off college athletics, outside of the value equated to brand name recognition, you are crazy.  I could get that argument for the really large athletic programs, but it doesn't apply to all of D1 athletics.  I never felt like a 'slave to the system.'  College education has value, when other people are paying for what you are getting for free.  Any argument contrary to that is complete BS.  Plenty of us on the D1 athletics side, did not receive full rides like the Basketball players do at the D1 level.  Be appreciative of that fact. 

Now, I do get what he is saying, in that athletics can promise a path to those from underrepresented communities, which is made to seem more likely than reality demonstrates.  There are many people that interact with these folks before they get to the college level, filling them up with all kinds of BS.  A lot of that is the AAU system that developed over the years, and how those AAU coaches can eventually be promised college jobs.  I get that part.  The HBCU argument is faulty.  That all comes down to funding and support from alumni, just like any school.  The top kids could come to Valpo and get drafted in the NBA, just as much as if they went to an HBCU or P5.  If you want to say that part is the system, you need to look at the P5 universities trying to keep down smaller schools.  That is not an HBCU vs. all other schools thing.

[valpopal]

This announcement seems appropriate here:


[tweet]1390347936693948416[/tweet]

[FWalum]

A few thoughts I have...

1) Zion is probably similar to a lot of college athletes in that he got lost in the shuffle with education. I've seen this first hand with transfers and the NCAA. My guess is he took certain classes at UNLV and then Wabash Valley that did or did not transfer to Valpo. Based on what transferred over probably dicatated what major he needed to pursue when he got to Valpo. The NCAA wants student-athletes to show they are on a Path to Graduate (I've capitalized this because it is an official term). Student-athletes need to show they are making progress toward their degree. From what Zion said in the interview, as he got older, his eyes started to open a bit more, and probably too late in the process for him to shift his major toward studying something of substance for what he wants to accomplish away from basketball. Many basketball players come to D1 schools with the idea of going pro and they don't always think about life away from basketball. By the time people shift that focus, it's often too late to take advantage of those academic opportunities. As for the comparison to Kiser, he came in with an academic plan. He stayed that course and basketball was a supplemental experience. I'd argue that Zion came into college with a plan of being a professional basketball player and his plan shifted as time went on.

1) I get it, I think you have heard me say this before, we had kids and even father's who complained and thought we were ruining their chance to make it in the NBA. This was an NAIA program and yes we had some guys get drafted in the G/D-League or play at a fairly high level in Europe, but when you are the 8th man on the roster you are not going to the NBA. Because his eyes have started to open, I hope Zion can interject realistic expectations into the "system" for young Black men. Path to Graduate is a thing at all college levels, I agree that the transferring probably made things more difficult for him to take advantage of academic opportunities. I agree that his truth and his life experiences and the experiences of kids from his "hood" are different than Kiser's and that this might lead to different "plans". Perhaps that comparison was not the best, but I chose Kiser because they shared some time on the same team.

2) I was not the person who suggested Eron and I agree that Eron's experience would be much different because of his brother. So let's instead use Vashil to make the comparison. In every category, other than the transfer situation, Vashil's experiences would have been even more dire than Zion's, yet the two interviews were drastically different in tone. I don't think I even need to contrast the differences. Since you did both interviews I think it would be interesting for you to contrast Vashil's plan (he talks about having a plan) versus Zion's plan. Why does one player think he is on a plantation while the other takes off and accomplishes his dreams and is contributing and helping the community.

3) I don't think that he currently thinks he is a victim, that his eyes that have been opened and he has gotten out of the system, but that he and other people in the "system" were and are being victimized. I think he wants to now help young men to be more realistic in their expectations and that athletes that were in the system and have made it to the highest levels of their sport need to give much more back to their community. I just hope he realizes that personal decisions and responsibilities are what really make the difference.

4) I enjoyed this interview, it was good to hear his confidence and also his passion for helping his community. As someone whose wife and I have been very involved in education, It made me really sad to hear that his educational experience was not really close to what it could or should have been. Just listening to Zion Morgan was certainly worth it.

[Just Sayin]

A few thoughts I have...

1) Zion is probably similar to a lot of college athletes in that he got lost in the shuffle with education. I've seen this first hand with transfers and the NCAA. My guess is he took certain classes at UNLV and then Wabash Valley that did or did not transfer to Valpo. Based on what transferred over probably dicatated what major he needed to pursue when he got to Valpo. The NCAA wants student-athletes to show they are on a Path to Graduate (I've capitalized this because it is an official term). Student-athletes need to show they are making progress toward their degree. From what Zion said in the interview, as he got older, his eyes started to open a bit more, and probably too late in the process for him to shift his major toward studying something of substance for what he wants to accomplish away from basketball. Many basketball players come to D1 schools with the idea of going pro and they don't always think about life away from basketball. By the time people shift that focus, it's often too late to take advantage of those academic opportunities. As for the comparison to Kiser, he came in with an academic plan. He stayed that course and basketball was a supplemental experience. I'd argue that Zion came into college with a plan of being a professional basketball player and his plan shifted as time went on.

2) The line about how an interview with Eron would be different shouldn't be a surprise. Eron has a brother who is part of that 0.03 percent who made it to the NBA. His and his families experience is likely different than anyone else who steps foot on Valpo's campus. I don't know about the neighborhood that Zion grew up in (other than what he alluded to in the interview) and I don't know about Eron's neighborhood either. What I do know is having a family member who has made millions and millions of dollars will definitely provide a different experience than someone who doesn't have access to that. It doesn't mean Zion's experience is any better or any worse than Eron's and vice versa.

3) Someone alluded to the word victim. Granted I was the one conducting the interview and oftentimes that proximity clouds the view, but I didn't hear Zion play the role of victim at all. One of the first words he said was "empowered." Maybe I'm mistaken here, but I don't think I was interviewing a victim. I was interviewing someone who has come to grips with a system that makes money on the backs of the players. He wasn't screaming "woe is me," he was simply pointing out his feelings that the system is broken.

4) I loved doing this interview and I love the conversation that comes from it. Whether or not he said things that people agree or disagree with, it is his experience. I've dealt with plenty of players over the years who only wanted to shoot a basketball and didn't want to open up. There were 17 guys on the roster last year. I wish I could do 17 of these interviews where the players would open up and be humans. The question is whether or not anyone would care what they have to say. Valpo Basketball player Zion Morgan is worth listening to. Is just Zion Morgan worth listening to? I certainly think so.

[EddieCabot]

I finally had a chance to listen and I agree with Morgan and Paul.  It's shame that Valpo made so much money off of Morgan and all he got was a free education.  I think this will change somewhat if the NCAA approves NIL rights for athletes ... in that case, stars like Morgan will be able to earn $ equal to their real value.  Guys like Morgan are driving change. 

[humbleopinion]

I finally had a chance to listen and I agree with Morgan and Paul.  It's shame that Valpo made so much money off of Morgan and all he got was a free education.  I think this will change somewhat if the NCAA approves NIL rights for athletes ... in that case, stars like Morgan will be able to earn $ equal to their real value.  Guys like Morgan are driving change. 

I really don't think that this gets to his point. I don't think that he was so concerned about personal financial gain. He implied that last summer's events (i.e. the George Floyd protests) directed his attention to problems within his community that he had ignored as his focus was so strongly fixed on basketball. 

I would imagine that his thoughts around the problems are still fermenting and not thoroughly distilled.  I would like to hear from him what changes he think could address his concerns.

[wh]

Someone alluded to the word victim. Granted I was the one conducting the interview and oftentimes that proximity clouds the view, but I didn't hear Zion play the role of victim at all. One of the first words he said was "empowered." Maybe I'm mistaken here, but I don't think I was interviewing a victim. I was interviewing someone who has come to grips with a system that makes money on the backs of the players. He wasn't screaming "woe is me," he was simply pointing out his feelings that the system is broken.

Marxist organizations in this country have built a campaign of victimhood around lies and misconceptions to play on people's emotions and play one group against another. This issue is a perfect example.

The premise that universities are making money on the backs of student athletes is a complete fabrication. Of the literally thousands of 2-year and 4-year universities with athletic programs at every level and division, only a handful turn a profit.

In case you're wondering why these people would make this garbage up, I think the answer could be found, in part, in this quote:

"People would rather live in a community with unreasonable claims, than face loneliness with their truth."

Do Colleges Make Money
From Athletics?
Mark J. Drozdowski, Ed.D.
BY MARK J. DROZDOWSKI, ED.D.
Published on November 16, 2020

https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/do-college-sports-make-money/

[crusader05]

I find it utterly fascinating that we constantly argue that the university needs to invest in its basketball team for a massive return on investment but then immediately roll our eyes when players say the system makes other people money.

[valpopal]

I find it utterly fascinating that we constantly argue that the university needs to invest in its basketball team for a massive return on investment but then immediately roll our eyes when players say the system makes other people money.

A "full" athletic scholarship covers the costs of tuition, fees, room and board, and books. At Valparaiso University that likely totals more than $60,000 per year, and about 250,000 for four years. Multiply that by 13 men's basketball scholarships: $3,250,000. (This does not include the added lifetime earning potential gained by attaining a degree at a reputable university.) That is why I roll my eyes if a VU basketball player objects that "the system makes other people money."