Could Valpo University & City collaborate to Build an Aquatic Center?

[VU2014]

I recently read a Post-Tribune article according to a poll about 90% Valpo residents want an Aquatic Center.

I was wondering if others think it would be possible for the Valparaiso University and the city of Valparaiso to build an aquatic center and pool? Valparaiso needs a major upgrade to their pool and I was wondering if it would be possible to split resources to affordably build a pool for both the community, Student Athletes, student, and faculty.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/news/ct-ptb-valparaiso-park-plan-st-1120-20161118-story.html

Pool a priority in Valparaiso parks plan

A Draft of a five-year plan for the Valparaiso Parks Department includes a pool or aquatic center, a proposed dog park and the possibility of expanding to cover Center Township, which now relies on the county's parks department.

The draft was presented last week to about 15 people.

"This is more a directional piece," said John Seibert, parks director, with the goal of being on the right track of what residents want. More specifics will be in the final draft, which the parks staff and consultants will present to the parks board at a Dec. 20 meeting.

Through research, community meetings and two surveys, it was found that an aging population wants more multi-generational activities, more outdoor activities, nature and hiking and biking trails, and a nature center. said Austin Hochstettler of Pros Consulting of Indianapolis.

Ninety percent want a pool, he said, while interest in special events decreased even as attendance at events increased 16 percent.

Seibert said Kirchoff Park, Rogers-Lakewood Park and the horticultural center are in line for makeovers and would be the first facilities to have individual plans.

Suggestions from the audience included allowing bow hunting for deer on empty parks land, buying abandoned sites and not infringing on programs provided by Valparaiso University or the schools.

The parks department will seek more public/private partnerships and make use of the stand-alone school gyms being built to save money, Seibert said, and will keep an eye on available land, starting with the south side and followed by the west, east and north.

Besides partnerships, the department will look for ways to generate revenue to maintain existing parks, a concern revealed in surveys. But residents won't see a recreation fee attached to their tax or utility bills, Seibert said. The only fee that can be charged is that imposed on new developments for projected population increases and that can only be used for new parks.

For Valparaiso's series of hiking and biking trails, the consultants identified three loops, one in the center of the city, one on the east side and one on the west side. Consulting engineer Adam Higgins of SEH of Indiana said the city needs to put paths into the neighborhoods and look to connect to outside networks, such as the planned Kankakee-Dunes trail along Indiana 49.

The consultants recommended improved trail identification and going forward with plans for trailheads with parking, restrooms and kiosks.

Seibert said Valparaiso University students surveyed weren't aware a trail passed by their school. The department would likely put trailheads where amenities already exist, such as Foundation Meadows Park, Central Park and Valplayso, he said.

James D. Wolf Jr. is a freelance reporter for the Post-Tribune.

[94Alum]

I graduated 22 years ago and was on the Valpo Men's Swimming team.  Even THEN the pool was old, inadequate, and embarrassing.  I can't believe over 20 years later in 2016, a NCAA Division I Swim Team is still using that pool.  I hope that there is some sort of aquatic facility upgrade plan in play, but I have not seen or heard anything.  Even in the Master Plan, I don't recall any mention of a new pool.  If anyone has any information on any plans for an aquatic facility upgrade, please let us know!

[valpo64]

A pool? There are much more important things as far as facilities go for the University...like the ARC!!!!

[VU2014]

A pool? There are much more important things as far as facilities go for the University...like the ARC!!!!

I agree we need a new ARC as well. I feel like every time the discussion of, "we need a new ARC" comes up most people roll their eyes and say, "are you going to write the check?"

I actually I think the ARC would be a great investment for the University and would raise revenue with new signage and raising the prestige of ALL the sports team to help us become under more serious consideration for larger conferences which would bring in more revenue.

I have no clue how much $ it would take to build a new ARC. I just know a bunch of people who a little bit more in the "know" then me and they are sick of people talking about it because they don't see it happening till a fairly well off alumni generously donates towards the cause.

[valpo64]

I am not talking about a "new" ARC, but a renovated one with some increased seating but more importantly vastly needed restroom and concession facilities.

[agibson]

I was wondering if others think it would be possible for the Valparaiso University and the city of Valparaiso to build an aquatic center and pool? Valparaiso needs a major upgrade to their pool and I was wondering if it would be possible to split resources to affordably build a pool for both the community, Student Athletes, student, and faculty.

I heard some murmurings that such an idea was pitched by the university to the mayor. With maybe an Eastgate location. Without any immediate fruit. But, it seems like an idea that has potential.

(I also heard something about a similar idea for an ice facility; and the city ended up going that one alone, with a rink now in operation downtown.)

[agibson]

For Valparaiso's series of hiking and biking trails, the consultants identified three loops, one in the center of the city, one on the east side and one on the west side. Consulting engineer Adam Higgins of SEH of Indiana said the city needs to put paths into the neighborhoods and look to connect to outside networks, such as the planned Kankakee-Dunes trail along Indiana 49.

The consultants recommended improved trail identification and going forward with plans for trailheads with parking, restrooms and kiosks.

Seibert said Valparaiso University students surveyed weren't aware a trail passed by their school. The department would likely put trailheads where amenities already exist, such as Foundation Meadows Park, Central Park and Valplayso, he said.

I have only guesses, myself, what they're talking about.

Maybe the Pathways?
https://www.ci.valparaiso.in.us/201/Valparaiso-Pathways
http://ci.valparaiso.in.us/DocumentCenter/View/1212
p. 18 has a map.

Basically jumbo-sized sidewalks. I suspect many students are aware that there are some jumbo-sized sidewalks on the north and east sides of campus, but I don't know how many would call it a "hiking and biking trail".

Or are they talking about this?
http://www.ci.valparaiso.in.us/557/Walking-Routes
http://www.ci.valparaiso.in.us/DocumentCenter/Home/View/648
which I've never heard of.

[usc4valpo]

I cannot believe the City of Valparaiso does not have an aquatics center. Living in Des Moines, there are 4 aquatic centers and they are used consistently. It's not the Dells, but it certainly meets their needs. Building an aquatic center is a great investment.

As for Valparaiso University and the need for a new athletic facility, the problem is that donors like the Christophers are funding projects not related to athletics, which is generous and great for Valpo overall.

[valporun]

Wasn't there discussion of a pool being in the proposals for the Fieldhouse? Yes, our pool is very below what it should be for the NCAA ranks, but in terms of recreational use, it's sufficient. I'm not sure why the community never had a pool, unless leaders, prior to my ever knowing there was a Valparaiso, Indiana, thought swimming or having a pool was a sin, and not good for the community. In terms of a pool, yes, the community needs one, but I'm not sure the University needs to go in on it until they know what will happen with the fieldhouse that should be built.

I also get tired of the constant talks about the ARC needing rebuilt, but until either a group of generous alums or a corporate leader puts up the money, we'll just keep bickering back and forth about how craptastic our facility is compared to say Rupp Arena, Cameron Indoor, Hinkle, or the UC. We know what we need, we know what we want, but what is needed most is "needing" the money to put this talk into fruition. Heck, it took forward to get a plan and the money raised to get a campus track, so it isn't impossible, but until people put up the money to back up their want for a new facility, whether by renovations or raze and build new, just realize we're stuck with what we have, and we'll just have to be glad we have that.

[usc4valpo]

is Valpo strapped for cash or do they they show a high level of conservative principles financially?

[VU2014]

is Valpo strapped for cash or do they they show a high level of conservative principles financially?

I don't think the University is strapped for cash but it's wise to be prudent and conservative with resources. I think President Heckler has been much more willing to spend funds/resources then his predecessor in Harre. Harre's extremely frugality was way over the top in my opinion, from everything I've heard. I'm 2014 graduate and was a freshman in 2010. Back in 2010 the infrastructure and the dates on the buildings being used were in major need of new facilities. President Heckler used debt to fund the 'Arts and Sciences Building'. Just in the last few years we have had quite a few new buildings pop up.

With the historically low interest rates the last 8 years it has made sense to fund new buildings on campus with debt.

One project that was a complete head scratcher to me was the building of the sorority town houses with University funds. Not sure that was a great investment for the University and I'm not sure the University shouldn't have let the national sororities raise the $ need to build the houses themselves and allowed the national sororities to build the house on University property. I was a part of Greek life at my time on Campus and loved it. As for the fraternities I believe they are making fraternities raise the capital for their own houses and they are trying to put them across the street from the sorority house and right next to VU Polices station which the University says is going to move its police station eventually. I don't know the whole story.

I remember seeing and hearing the "Grand Master Plan" a few years ago while I was still student and I was a bit of skeptic for how the revenue was going to raised for all the new buildings.

[vu72]

is Valpo strapped for cash or do they they show a high level of conservative principles financially?

I don't think the University is strapped for cash but it's wise to be prudent and conservative with resources. I think President Heckler has been much more willing to spend funds/resources then his predecessor in Harre. Harre's extremely frugality was way over the top in my opinion, from everything I've heard. I'm 2014 graduate and was a freshman in 2010. Back in 2010 the infrastructure and the dates on the buildings being used were in major need of new facilities. President Heckler used debt to fund the 'Arts and Sciences Building'. Just in the last few years we have had quite a few new buildings pop up.

With the historically low interest rates the last 8 years it has made sense to fund new buildings on campus with debt.

One project that was a complete head scratcher to me was the building of the sorority town houses with University funds. Not sure that was a great investment for the University and I'm not sure the University shouldn't have let the national sororities raise the $ need to build the houses themselves and allowed the national sororities to build the house on University property. I was a part of Greek life at my time on Campus and loved it. As for the fraternities I believe they are making fraternities raise the capital for their own houses and they are trying to put them across the street from the sorority house and right next to VU Polices station which the University says is going to move its police station eventually. I don't know the whole story.

I remember seeing and hearing the "Grand Master Plan" a few years ago while I was still student and I was a bit of skeptic for how the revenue was going to raised for all the new buildings.

The police station has already been torn down (I'm pretty sure)as has the apartment building next to it.  The Phi Psi house will be built of the police station site and I believe the Sigma Chi's are raising funds to build next to it.

[bbtds]

I cannot believe the City of Valparaiso does not have an aquatics center. Living in Des Moines, there are 4 aquatic centers and they are used consistently. It's not the Dells, but it certainly meets their needs. Building an aquatic center is a great investment.

As for Valparaiso University and the need for a new athletic facility, the problem is that donors like the Christophers are funding projects not related to athletics, which is generous and great for Valpo overall.

Unfortunately, except for the Schrages, that includes all the people able to donate large amounts of funds who are so inclined alumni/friends of Valpo. Athletics just doesn't have the pull (not including the Christopher's son, who got the track finished by what was truly embarrassing because it went 10? years uncompleted).

[usc4valpo]

Perhaps I am thinking about a grander view of Valpo - I think a significant update to the ARC is a must. The university won;t go down, free state tuition is a dream. A little risk is never a bad thing.

[agibson]

The police station has already been torn down (I'm pretty sure)as has the apartment building next to it.

I've not looked at the old site. But the police station has moved; it's been north of the old hospital site for some months now.

[talksalot]

If you want some history on this... The outdoor swimming pool went to a referendum in July 2001.   After being endorsed by the Park Board, City Council and the Times newspaper...

Valparaiso water park takes a dive

It started with a splash and ended with a thud.

After meeting for more than a year and studying community pools throughout the Midwest, a committee of residents presented a plan for a family aquatic center to the Valparaiso Park Board at the end of 2000. The board endorsed it in January 2001 and sent it and the $7 million bond issue to pay for it on to the City Council for final approval in February.

Everything seemed to be proceeding smoothly on a course to opening the aquatic center in Foundation Meadow Park at Campbell Street and Bullseye Lake Road on Memorial Day 2003. The plan called for a 1,500-person capacity facility with a pool, water slides, lap lanes, zero-depth entry, sand volleyball and play areas, sunbathing and picnicking areas, concessions, showers, changing rooms and parking for 500 vehicles.


Only a couple of discouraging words were heard prior to Park Board approval, but by the time the council was ready to act on it in April, it had erupted into a major battle as the opponents -- saying the park was too costly, in a lousy location and would compound already wretched traffic conditions -- mustered enough signatures on petitions in March to force a referendum.

The only question was whether the petitioners met the deadline for submitting them.

The deadline question was pretty much rendered moot when the council strongly suggested the park board hold the referendum to gauge public support for the project. Both sides canvassed the city in June, and the results were finally tabulated in mid-July. What had seemed like a project with overwhelming support six months earlier ended up being defeated by a comfortable margin.

==============================
That was 15 years ago.

[Vale O. Paradise]

As far as fiscal philosophy goes, it looks like under Heckler, VU has been more willing to take on debt to fund projects. Another explanation could be that low interest rates -- not VU's philosophy -- is the factor that has changed. All that said, I'm no professional...just making educated guesses based on the following numbers:


Year: Bond liabilities (millions) / Total liabilities (millions)
2006: 25 /63
2011: 64 / 105
2014: 99 / 145




Source: Form 990 returns: http://www.eri-nonprofit-salaries.com/?FuseAction=NPO.Summary&EIN=350868125&BMF=1&Cobrandid=0&Syndicate=No

[vu72]

As far as fiscal philosophy goes, it looks like under Heckler, VU has been more willing to take on debt to fund projects. Another explanation could be that low interest rates -- not VU's philosophy -- is the factor that has changed. All that said, I'm no professional...just making educated guesses based on the following numbers:


Year: Bond liabilities (millions) / Total liabilities (millions)
2006: 25 /63
2011: 64 / 105
2014: 99 / 145




Source: Form 990 returns: http://www.eri-nonprofit-salaries.com/?FuseAction=NPO.Summary&EIN=350868125&BMF=1&Cobrandid=0&Syndicate=No

A fascinating read, maybe because I'm an investment/finance guy or maybe because I'm nosy!  I think we can all now say that Bryce was fairly compensated as a coach in the Horizon as he was the highest paid University employee at $423,201 total compensation for 2014.  Presumably, given the success of the last few years, his 2015 comp was even larger.  Mark Heckler was the second highest paid at $413,991

[agibson]

As far as fiscal philosophy goes, it looks like under Heckler, VU has been more willing to take on debt to fund projects. Another explanation could be that low interest rates -- not VU's philosophy -- is the factor that has changed. All that said, I'm no professional...just making educated guesses based on the following numbers:

The economic environment must matter. But, I think it's safe to say that Heckler's administration has been less financially conservative than Harre's. It seems like Harre did a remarkable job of building the endowment and putting Valpo on sound financial footing. Maybe it's a generational thing. But, I've not heard anyone accuse Heckler's policies of being overly aggressive.

[agibson]

Everything seemed to be proceeding smoothly on a course to opening the aquatic center in Foundation Meadow Park at Campbell Street and Bullseye Lake Road on Memorial Day 2003. The plan called for a 1,500-person capacity facility with a pool, water slides, lap lanes, zero-depth entry, sand volleyball and play areas, sunbathing and picnicking areas, concessions, showers, changing rooms and parking for 500 vehicles.

Only a couple of discouraging words were heard prior to Park Board approval, but by the time the council was ready to act on it in April, it had erupted into a major battle as the opponents -- saying the park was too costly, in a lousy location and would compound already wretched traffic conditions -- mustered enough signatures on petitions in March to force
a referendum.

These details are new to me. Thanks for posting them. There is a lot of space at Foundation Meadows, but it sounds like they were really going to max it out. I wonder if there would be anything left of the park? But, maybe the current park and nature area wasn't there at the time.

500 vehicles and 1,500 people does sound like a lot. Probably it wouldn't compare to the high school during entry or dismissal, but on a summer day it would probably be enough to significantly complicate traffic on Campbell/Meridian.

Very interesting.

Difficult to get people on the record, maybe, or to verify the extent to which it matters. But, if you ask around town many would say that a healthy dose of racism and classism was a factor in defeating past attempts at public pools in Valpo.

It's really surprising to me that there's _nothing_. I applaud what the public schools do with the YMCA and the high school, but it's a little crazy that there's no real public option.

I did hear parents at a youth recreational sporting event admit that they were worried about "what people would come" if public transportation between Valpo and Chicago were expanded. We were talking about high speed rail possibilities at the time (some vision has a station by the Chicago Dash lot downtown). They said out loud they were concerned about the type of people that would come in on the train - their audacity quite surprised me.

Maybe there are statistics that I don't know about that show some odd increase in opportunistic crime. But, it pushed my knee jerk "Wow, that seems really racist/classist." button for sure.

Recall, of course, that this is a town whose first black family arrived in 1969 (even if one of the sons of that family is now a city council member). Where the KKK demonstrated in front of the court house in the 1990's. Where, as discussed in another thread, the KKK came close to buying the university in the 20's, when apparently one in three men in Indiana were members of the Klan. We've come a long ways, but we sure have a long ways to go.

[VULB#62]

Everything seemed to be proceeding smoothly on a course to opening the aquatic center in Foundation Meadow Park at Campbell Street and Bullseye Lake Road on Memorial Day 2003. The plan called for a 1,500-person capacity facility with a pool, water slides, lap lanes, zero-depth entry, sand volleyball and play areas, sunbathing and picnicking areas, concessions, showers, changing rooms and parking for 500 vehicles.

Only a couple of discouraging words were heard prior to Park Board approval, but by the time the council was ready to act on it in April, it had erupted into a major battle as the opponents -- saying the park was too costly, in a lousy location and would compound already wretched traffic conditions -- mustered enough signatures on petitions in March to force
a referendum.

These details are new to me. Thanks for posting them. There is a lot of space at Foundation Meadows, but it sounds like they were really going to max it out. I wonder if there would be anything left of the park? But, maybe the current park and nature area wasn't there at the time.

500 vehicles and 1,500 people does sound like a lot. Probably it wouldn't compare to the high school during entry or dismissal, but on a summer day it would probably be enough to significantly complicate traffic on Campbell/Meridian.

Very interesting.

Difficult to get people on the record, maybe, or to verify the extent to which it matters. But, if you ask around town many would say that a healthy dose of racism and classism was a factor in defeating past attempts at public pools in Valpo.

It's really surprising to me that there's _nothing_. I applaud what the public schools do with the YMCA and the high school, but it's a little crazy that there's no real public option.

I did hear parents at a youth recreational sporting event admit that they were worried about "what people would come" if public transportation between Valpo and Chicago were expanded. We were talking about high speed rail possibilities at the time (some vision has a station by the Chicago Dash lot downtown). They said out loud they were concerned about the type of people that would come in on the train - their audacity quite surprised me.

Maybe there are statistics that I don't know about that show some odd increase in opportunistic crime. But, it pushed my knee jerk "Wow, that seems really racist/classist." button for sure.

Recall, of course, that this is a town whose first black family arrived in 1969 (even if one of the sons of that family is now a city council member). Where the KKK demonstrated in front of the court house in the 1990's. Where, as discussed in another thread, the KKK came close to buying the university in the 20's, when apparently one in three men in Indiana were members of the Klan. We've come a long ways, but we sure have a long ways to go.

My experience (in New England) with the addition of fast commuter lines is that communities on the line leap ahead in terms of housing value, development and quality of life. It is a WIN/win for Valparaiso (caps) if that happens. These lines are not "public transportation" but rather commuter rails. The odds of getting a heisted TV on the line back to the questionable neighborhoods of Chicago are presently somewhere in orbit.

Regarding the pool/aquatics center:  I was the head swimming coach at Mt. Vernon HS (Westchester, NY - Division 1) and competed regularly with Mamaroneck HS. That community built a community aquatics center that was geared to the HS during the winter swim season, but focused on the community the rest of the time.  The usage was off the charts -- and the swim team became a D-1 competitor in just a couple of seasons........
........Long story short:  If VU were to donate East Gate property (and maybe throw in some funds) for a community  aquatics center (located close to the down town but also to VU) that has at its core a top flight 8 lane competition pool with separate dive tank that could be shared with the HS, this could be another WIN (VU) / win (City) situation. And this aquatics center could be a 4 season facility -- With outdoor elements that come into play during the summer. 

[agibson]

My experience (in New England) with the addition of fast commuter lines is that communities on the line leap ahead in terms of housing value, development and quality of life. It is a WIN/win for Valparaiso (caps) if that happens. These lines are not "public transportation" but rather commuter rails. The odds of getting a heisted TV on the line back to the questionable neighborhoods of Chicago are presently somewhere in orbit.

I'm with you. And, to be fair, there was at least one other parent that spoke up talking about how they'd love to have better options to get to and from Chicago.

Most Valparaiso residents seem like reasonable folks - probably the vast majority have good intentions. I'm just sometimes surprised that people are willing to share opinions in public that I would have assumed would be considered embarrassing and socially unacceptable. It does serve as a reminder that those opinions, assumptions, fears are out there.

[94Alum]

A pool? There are much more important things as far as facilities go for the University...like the ARC!!!!

Umm...  not sure I like the tone of disrespect for my sport.  lol

Yes, a pool!  I mean, I'm not saying make the focus on a pool above all other things.  I'm just saying make a pool PART of plans for athletic improvements in general.  I don't pretend that swimming is as important to Valpo as basketball, but we DO have a swimming team, and they do need an appropriate place for a NCAA Div 1 team to practice and hold meets.  The entire school's rep is negatively affected when visiting universities come to that atrocious facility for meets.  I'm sure they giggle all the way home and shake their head at our facility.  They were doing that 20 years ago when I was on the team.