Jubril Adekoya and the Honor Council

[wh]

If you don't know the facts surrounding the issue either you have been out of the country for a month or you don't believe chef.

I'm not trying to disparage him but chef has been incredibly wrong about statements on this board before.

Not only does chef know what he's talking about, he knows a lot more than he ever shares on this board. The only time he chimes is to add clarity to a situation or put an end to wild speculation, which is what happened here. A poster that is not well known to us made the claim that the issue resulting in Jubril's suspension centered on a violation of the university's honor code. Following a long winded exchange during which certain posters started rudely shooting the messenger, chef finally stepped in and essentially validated his claim. I, as I always am, was grateful that he was willing to put himself out there and bring some sanity back to the discussion.

You, on the other hand, make an unsubstantiated and insulting claim that he has been has been "incredibly wrong about statements on this board before."  Your inference is that he either doesn't know what he's talking about or he has an agenda. Either way you are attacking his credibility. He deserves better - much better.

[bbtds]

You, on the other hand, make an unsubstantiated and insulting claim that he has been has been "incredibly wrong about statements on this board before."  Your inference is that he either doesn't know what he's talking about or he has an agenda. Either way you are attacking his credibility. He deserves better - much better.

Why did you feel it necessary to disparage me?

All I said is that chef may not have been given all the info that relates to Jubril's situation. Why does chef have more info than Paul Oren?

And yes, chef was very wrong about a situation about a year ago or so. In that case he was not given all the info. I think your memory is a bit faulty.

Why do you jump to disparage people so quickly?

[wh]

You, on the other hand, make an unsubstantiated and insulting claim that he has been has been "incredibly wrong about statements on this board before."  Your inference is that he either doesn't know what he's talking about or he has an agenda. Either way you are attacking his credibility. He deserves better - much better.

Why did you feel it necessary to disparage me?

All I said is that chef may not have been given all the info that relates to Jubril's situation. Why does chef have more info than Paul Oren?

And yes, chef was very wrong about a situation about a year ago or so. In that case he was not given all the info. I think your memory is a bit faulty.

Why do you jump to disparage people so quickly?

Disparage is the right word, but you're attaching it to the wrong person. You made a disparaging comment about chef to the entire board, and I defended him. I know chef. Rather than defend himself, he will simply withdraw. Rest assured that the next time we're looking for some "inside baseball," he won't be providing it.

For the record, your comment was chef has been "incredibly wrong about statements on this board before."  Now you're saying you were referring to a single allegedly inaccurate comment he made a year ago. That's a huge difference.

[VU2624]

Maybe picking a nit here but I don't think either the original info regarding what may have occurred or what was confirmed by anyone mentioned the Honor Council. The general facts were that schoolwork was done by a manager (as claimed by the manager) of the baseball team for a player or players on the basketball team. Whether that may have eventually led to the Honor Council or not is not known and just assumed by at least some on the board. Whether the NCAA is involved is also a supposition by many on the board.

This, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

[FieldGoodie05]

Maybe picking a nit here but I don't think either the original info regarding what may have occurred or what was confirmed by anyone mentioned the Honor Council. The general facts were that schoolwork was done by a manager (as claimed by the manager) of the baseball team for a player or players on the basketball team. Whether that may have eventually led to the Honor Council or not is not known and just assumed by at least some on the board. Whether the NCAA is involved is also a supposition by many on the board.

This, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

It's natural to be frustrated with ZERO University information.  The frustration is evident with Peters and Jubril.

I'm going to ask you to deal with a web forum and the wild accusations.  This is venting time, not scolding time.

[agibson]

This, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

I don't think I've heard anyone condoning cheating. Or denying that their should be consequences for it.

A little discussion of how widespread, or not, it is and has been. And how hard the book should be thrown (academically and athletically) at those involved.

And, indeed, a lot of griping (at least some of it legitimate, I'd argue) about the sanctioning bodies and procedures - their speed, their transparency, their due process. Or lack thereof.

[VU2624]

This, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

I don't think I've heard anyone condoning cheating. Or denying that their should be consequences for it. A little discussion of how widespread, or not, it is and has been. And how hard the book should be thrown (academically and athletically) at those involved. And, indeed, a lot of griping (at least some of it legitimate, I'd argue) about the sanctioning bodies and procedures - their speed, their transparency, their due process. Or lack thereof.

The actual griping has been all about getting the player back on to the court as fast as possible. Whether anyone likes it or not this is standard operation procedure for a university and/or NCAA in a non criminal (and thus other public acknowledgement) situation. Next to none of the griping has been about a player who, if the evidence which was presented here is true and thus is being looked upon as the basis for the griping, has been a member of the Academic Honor Roll and part of a NCAA student leadership forum all while receiving unauthorized aid in doing so. Maybe that should be the discussion rather than bashing entities designed, at least in part, to vet out cheating which this would be.

Oh...wait...you mean we can't hammer the player for doing what he did because we can't confirm the source as being absolutely correct and that wouldn't be very nice to poor Jubril? Ok. But we'll use the same information which may or may not be true to hammer those entities delaying your joy including the school itself to get the cheating player back on the court as fast as we can.

This wouldn't be a case of a player barely hanging on to eligibility requirements in order to play. This would be a player who is using unauthorized aid to earn awards over doing his own work. To me, that's the more serious issue and not how fast he gets back on the court.

However, we don't know what happened and likely never will unless the real story is decidedly different.

[wh]

This, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

I don't think I've heard anyone condoning cheating. Or denying that their should be consequences for it. A little discussion of how widespread, or not, it is and has been. And how hard the book should be thrown (academically and athletically) at those involved. And, indeed, a lot of griping (at least some of it legitimate, I'd argue) about the sanctioning bodies and procedures - their speed, their transparency, their due process. Or lack thereof.

The actual griping has been all about getting the player back on to the court as fast as possible. Whether anyone likes it or not this is standard operation procedure for a university and/or NCAA in a non criminal (and thus other public acknowledgement) situation. Next to none of the griping has been about a player who, if the evidence which was presented here is true and thus is being looked upon as the basis for the griping, has been a member of the Academic Honor Roll and part of a NCAA student leadership forum all while receiving unauthorized aid in doing so. Maybe that should be the discussion rather than bashing entities designed, at least in part, to vet out cheating which this would be.

Oh...wait...you mean we can't hammer the player for doing what he did because we can't confirm the source as being absolutely correct and that wouldn't be very nice to poor Jubril? Ok. But we'll use the same information which may or may not be true to hammer those entities delaying your joy including the school itself to get the cheating player back on the court as fast as we can.

This wouldn't be a case of a player barely hanging on to eligibility requirements in order to play. This would be a player who is using unauthorized aid to earn awards over doing his own work. To me, that's the more serious issue and not how fast he gets back on the court.

However, we don't know what happened and likely never will unless the real story is decidedly different.

And you're making Jubril sound like a complete academic fraud when for all anyone knows he may have admitted to cheating one time on one paper in one class over 4 years.

Can anyone of us say we never ever cheated in any way academically?  Ever? Not once? 

[FieldGoodie05]

This, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

I don't think I've heard anyone condoning cheating. Or denying that their should be consequences for it. A little discussion of how widespread, or not, it is and has been. And how hard the book should be thrown (academically and athletically) at those involved. And, indeed, a lot of griping (at least some of it legitimate, I'd argue) about the sanctioning bodies and procedures - their speed, their transparency, their due process. Or lack thereof.

The actual griping has been all about getting the player back on to the court as fast as possible.

This begins and ends with clear communication and clear defining of return time. If he was going to get a 12 game suspension from day one then make that announcement and be done with it.   Are you asking or telling us that all we want is him to be back on the court with less punishment?

Consider asking us questions, they fair much better than summarizing your view of OUR VIEW.

It becomes an anger fest...

[usc4valpo]

who knows what is going on. Either there is a lack of communication or the enforcers are stalling like a Tom Smith offense.

[FieldGoodie05]

Here is a quick example:

"You are....." (needs work)

"Are we concerned about his immediate eligibility or about a time line?  Because I'd hope we aren't concerned about receiving special treatment." (Alternate option, less accusation)

GO VU!  We win 81-69

[usc4valpo]

This suspension and loss is not as bad as the 1981-82 season. I think  six players left or got kicked off that year.

[VU2624]

This, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

I don't think I've heard anyone condoning cheating. Or denying that their should be consequences for it. A little discussion of how widespread, or not, it is and has been. And how hard the book should be thrown (academically and athletically) at those involved. And, indeed, a lot of griping (at least some of it legitimate, I'd argue) about the sanctioning bodies and procedures - their speed, their transparency, their due process. Or lack thereof.

The actual griping has been all about getting the player back on to the court as fast as possible. Whether anyone likes it or not this is standard operation procedure for a university and/or NCAA in a non criminal (and thus other public acknowledgement) situation. Next to none of the griping has been about a player who, if the evidence which was presented here is true and thus is being looked upon as the basis for the griping, has been a member of the Academic Honor Roll and part of a NCAA student leadership forum all while receiving unauthorized aid in doing so. Maybe that should be the discussion rather than bashing entities designed, at least in part, to vet out cheating which this would be. Oh...wait...you mean we can't hammer the player for doing what he did because we can't confirm the source as being absolutely correct and that wouldn't be very nice to poor Jubril? Ok. But we'll use the same information which may or may not be true to hammer those entities delaying your joy including the school itself to get the cheating player back on the court as fast as we can. This wouldn't be a case of a player barely hanging on to eligibility requirements in order to play. This would be a player who is using unauthorized aid to earn awards over doing his own work. To me, that's the more serious issue and not how fast he gets back on the court. However, we don't know what happened and likely never will unless the real story is decidedly different.

And you're making Jubril sound like a complete academic fraud when for all anyone knows he may have admitted to cheating one time on one paper in one class over 4 years. Can anyone of us say we never ever cheated in any way academically?  Ever? Not once?

I guess this one is filed under the "poor Jubril" column.

[VU2624]

This, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

I don't think I've heard anyone condoning cheating. Or denying that their should be consequences for it. A little discussion of how widespread, or not, it is and has been. And how hard the book should be thrown (academically and athletically) at those involved. And, indeed, a lot of griping (at least some of it legitimate, I'd argue) about the sanctioning bodies and procedures - their speed, their transparency, their due process. Or lack thereof.

The actual griping has been all about getting the player back on to the court as fast as possible.

This begins and ends with clear communication and clear defining of return time. If he was going to get a 12 game suspension from day one then make that announcement and be done with it.   Are you asking or telling us that all we want is him to be back on the court with less punishment? Consider asking us questions, they fair much better than summarizing your view of OUR VIEW. It becomes an anger fest...

What if there is still a case being investigated? Isn't there a poster valpolaw on this board? Maybe he or she could interject as to how quickly investigations can take.

None of us are owed any explanation.

[FieldGoodie05]

This, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

I don't think I've heard anyone condoning cheating. Or denying that their should be consequences for it. A little discussion of how widespread, or not, it is and has been. And how hard the book should be thrown (academically and athletically) at those involved. And, indeed, a lot of griping (at least some of it legitimate, I'd argue) about the sanctioning bodies and procedures - their speed, their transparency, their due process. Or lack thereof.

The actual griping has been all about getting the player back on to the court as fast as possible.

This begins and ends with clear communication and clear defining of return time. If he was going to get a 12 game suspension from day one then make that announcement and be done with it.   Are you asking or telling us that all we want is him to be back on the court with less punishment? Consider asking us questions, they fair much better than summarizing your view of OUR VIEW. It becomes an anger fest...

What if there is still a case being investigated? Isn't there a poster valpolaw on this board? Maybe he or she could interject as to how quickly investigations can take.

None of us are owed any explanation.

Thanks, guess I'll just have to disagree with you.  Based on your commentary I'm doubting it will be the last time.

[agibson]

Oh...wait...you mean we can't hammer the player for doing what he did because we can't confirm the source as being absolutely correct and that wouldn't be very nice to poor Jubril?

I'll try to play ball here. It's territory we've touched on before. Take the player's name out of it, invent a plausible hypothetical, give us whatever details you think are necessary, and propose an athletic punishment. Academic too, if you'd like.

[valpolaw]

What if there is still a case being investigated? Isn't there a poster valpolaw on this board? Maybe he or she could interject as to how quickly investigations can take.

Unfortunately, I don't have a ton to add on this subject.  I'm not very familiar with NCAA investigations--assuming that's the hold up.  Investigating facts for a civil lawsuit often doesn't take very long as long as it's not something overly complicated.  It would seem you would need to review evidence such as written documents and interview people for something like this.  I'm not sure what else there could be but who knows, strange things happen.  Sometimes locating documents and witnesses can take a little time, but I wouldn't think it would take this long.  I would hope the university, Jubril and his family, and anyone else involved are keeping the NCAA honest and pressing them to move this thing forward.  I'd hope they know what is going on, but it's troublesome to think of Jubril's and Alec's prior tweets that seemed to suggest no one understood what was going on.       

[jsher3141]

Interesting note...

According to the NCAA Meeting Calendar, there is a "D1 Committee on Academics" meeting February 2nd and 3rd. 

If the situation really is in the hands of the NCAA, perhaps Jubril's situation is on the agenda?
Maybe a resolution is coming. Fingers crossed.

[jsher3141]

Also just found this, about the "D1 Committee on Infractions".
Last meeting was in December, next meeting the second weekend in February.

From their information page:
"What is the time frame for handing down
a decision after the hearing? It typically takes
from eight to 12 weeks to write the report and
announce penalties."

If a decision was made at the December meeting, that puts next weekend (Feburary 4th) at 8 weeks since the meeting.
Otherwise, if the decision is to be made at this coming February meeting, looks like we will be out of luck for any hope of a return.

Again, all of this assuming we are waiting on an NCAA decision...

[VUBBFan]

The slow wheels of justice. If this is the case, that we are waiting on the NCAA, it would be a travesty if they make their ruling at the end of March and it's not a full suspension. That would be unfair to the player if the punishment is deemed to be less than the time missed. There is no next year to serve it. However the best way not to have this situation, is not to get into it (if guilty). To future players , be smart, if you do something wrong, more than likely you're gonna get caught. Don't do it!

[VULB#62]

Indeed it is SLOW -- spoke with MLB at the UWM pre-game event.  Jubril is practicing daily with the team.  His attitude is upbeat.  Can't travel.  It is a    p  r   o   c   e   s   s.  Jubril is sitting to "anticipate" some form of action/suspension (may or may not happen) and would rather it be retroactive (time served) than in the closing part of the season.  He's in good standing.  Good GPA.  We wait......  and wait.

[oklahomamick]

Indeed it is SLOW -- spoke with MLB at the UWM pre-game event.  Jubril is practicing daily with the team.  His attitude is upbeat.  Can't travel.  It is a    p  r   o   c   e   s   s.  Jubril is sitting to "anticipate" some form of action/suspension (may or may not happen) and would rather it be retroactive (time served) than in the closing part of the season.  He's in good standing.  Good GPA.  We wait......  and wait.

So technically Jubril could play right now and could have played the last 12 games?

While talking to MLB, did you mention MVC???

[justducky]

Indeed it is SLOW -- spoke with MLB at the UWM pre-game event.  Jubril is practicing daily with the team.  His attitude is upbeat.  Can't travel.  It is a    p  r   o   c   e   s   s.  Jubril is sitting to "anticipate" some form of action/suspension (may or may not happen) and would rather it be retroactive (time served) than in the closing part of the season.  He's in good standing.  Good GPA.  We wait......  and wait.

We are in to February. Only 3 home games and 5 road games remain. We have played 14 games without Jubril and won 12 of them. INCREDIBLE 

BUT, This thing needs to be decided and SOON! His and the teams post season hopes are now hanging in the balance.

If he does return to what extent will our success without him be reflected in the post season selection and seeding processes?

[M]

Bring him back for the tournament if they haven't heard anything.

[VULB#62]

While talking to MLB, did you mention MVC???

Nope.  BTW, on another item, while saying he couldn't comment on specifics, he confirmed that coaches have some latitude in dealing with  (when, mainly, not what) a suspension for training rules infractions...   if ya know what I'm sayin...