Jubril Adekoya and the Honor Council

[VU2624]

By running roughshod over Jubril and Valpo after Jubril admitted his guilt while Max continues to play changes the message from "Don't cheat" to "You shouldn't cheat, but if you do, DENY, DENY, DENY!" Make your accusers prove their claims, hire lawyers, take them to court, sue for defamation, claim discrimination, whatever it takes.

Assumption, Assumption, Assumption

[bbtds]

By running roughshod over Jubril and Valpo after Jubril admitted his guilt while Max continues to play changes the message from "Don't cheat" to "You shouldn't cheat, but if you do, DENY, DENY, DENY!" Make your accusers prove their claims, hire lawyers, take them to court, sue for defamation, claim discrimination, whatever it takes.

Assumption, Assumption, Assumption

It doesn't seem to apply to Max Joseph but it does hint at the fact that if you arm yourself with accusations thrown at the NCAA, high paid lawyers, discrimination claims and other tools you will fair much better than being brutally honest with the NCAA. It teaches young kids who may someday have to deal with the NCAA in the future that deflecting and denying will get you a better result from an NCAA ruling.

[valpolaw]

Quote from: wh on February 17, 2017, 05:39:49 PM By running roughshod over Jubril and Valpo after Jubril admitted his guilt while Max continues to play changes the message from "Don't cheat" to "You shouldn't cheat, but if you do, DENY, DENY, DENY!" Make your accusers prove their claims, hire lawyers, take them to court, sue for defamation, claim discrimination, whatever it takes.

"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove." 

[VULB#62]

What about #23 patches being worn by the team?

YES!

[valpolaw]

Could VU or Jubril seek injunctive relief from a court on this? The NCAA has not had a good track record getting judges to buy into their spotty and selective enforcements in recent years. And before you say, "oh, that will make enemies with the NCAA," well, what good did bending over backwards for them get VU in this case and the Carter decision?

Does anyone know whether Jubril or the university has looked into the possibly of seeking an injunction against the NCAA or legal relief if possible?  I hope they're doing everything they can.

I briefly looked around and found this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/03/sports/ncaabasketball/at-iona-a-happy-ending-for-mike-glovers-odyssey.html?mwrsm=Email

Somewhat of a different situation, but this student athlete initially filed suit against the NCAA.

[hailcrusaders]

Anyone else find it entertaining when our various high major fans on this board jump right to the defense of their respective high major teams?

[usc4valpo]

Hail - as a Valpo, USC and MIT alum, I am just expressing how inconsistent the NCAA is with their punishment. Baylor is probably going to get a slap on the wrist even though the football team molested half the women on campus. The events that occurred at Penn State were so bad that they should have suspended football for several years. At USC, one player's parent stayed in a condo rent free for a year, and it put the football program back 7 years. Based on that experience and the passive way the USC administration handled it,  Valpo needs to be more proactive and vocal with the NCAA scum.

[NativeCheesehead]

Paul,
Heard you mention on USH you wanted to do a book on Peters v Felder before the latter turned pro. Any thoughts on doing one on this Jubril situation? Or at least a longer article for one of the sites you write for?

[hailcrusaders]

Hail - as a Valpo, USC and MIT alum, I am just expressing how inconsistent the NCAA is with their punishment. Baylor is probably going to get a slap on the wrist even though the football team molested half the women on campus. The events that occurred at Penn State were so bad that they should have suspended football for several years. At USC, one player's parent stayed in a condo rent free for a year, and it put the football program back 7 years. Based on that experience and the passive way the USC administration handled it,  Valpo needs to be more proactive and vocal with the NCAA scum.

I understand. You sure aren't the only one. I follow/cheer for other schools as well. But I think it brings up an interesting point -- it's easy to claim the ref/NCAA/world is out to get your team in particular, no matter what your team is, when in fact unfair things happen to all sorts of teams, big or small.

[VU2014]

Paul,
Heard you mention on USH you wanted to do a book on Peters v Felder before the latter turned pro. Any thoughts on doing one on this Jubril situation? Or at least a longer article for one of the sites you write for?

This a repost from the USH Thread earlier, but is my personal wishlist of guests. Jubril would be a great guest.

1. MLB
Questions for MLB:[/u]
-Want to know what the chances of switching Conference are? MVC? Thoughts are the shifting landscape of conference.
-What are the realities of getting a renovated ARC? Are there plans? Any timeline?
-Thoughts on moving on from the Drew era.
-Thoughts on Bryce Drew interviewing for jobs while we were in the heat of the NIT.
-Did you offer the job the Coach Powell before Coach Lottich? (that one might be tmi to give out) Side Note: the Lottich hire looks great.
-What really happened with that whole David Skara situation? (I'd love to get a public confirmation with the rumors) Did David really personally want to leave? Was the decision up to him? Thoughts on Don Bosco Prep?
--Thoughts on the 'Motor City Dumpster' Fire Tournament?
-Great challenges facing the program in the future?
Simply put I could listen to a 4 hour podcast with the back and forth between Paul and MLB if it wasn't PC. By far would be the best guest.

2. Commissioner LeCrone
-Have Paul GRILL him on the Motor City Dumpster' Fire Tournament! 
-Why is the Tourney not in a REAL neutral site!? 
-Why did the tourney format of hosting get switched
-Ask him to elaborate on Butlers time in the HL.
-Any chance of adding teams in the near future? Belmont?
-Is he worried about losing Valpo to the MVC
-The overall consolidation of conference and how it impacts mid-majors, etc.

3. Jubril- Obvious reason and no need to elaborate.

4. Bryce Drew
-Ask him why he left?
-Is Vandy as special as you thought it is?
-Differences between Power 5 coaching/recruiting to Mid-Major Level

5. Richie Edwards/Brandon Wodd/David Skara
Obvious reasons why.
Side Question: Is there an interesting back story to the Richie Edwards transfer? Why transfer to Arizona to play mop up minutes rather then be one of the key guys on a good mid-major team? He would have had more tape to show scouts for a future pro career.
6. Homer Drew
7. Rowdy
8. Vashil
9. Aaron Leavitt
10. Rod Moore (this one would be particularly fun to hear his stories, at least for some of the younger almuni who are more new to our history.
11. Todd Ickow
12. Scott Drew
13. I'm sure there is a long list of former players that I'm not aware of.
14. Any long-time season ticket holder who has seen everything. I'm sure they'd have some stories.

[bbtds]

Quote from: wh on February 17, 2017, 05:39:49 PM By running roughshod over Jubril and Valpo after Jubril admitted his guilt while Max continues to play changes the message from "Don't cheat" to "You shouldn't cheat, but if you do, DENY, DENY, DENY!" Make your accusers prove their claims, hire lawyers, take them to court, sue for defamation, claim discrimination, whatever it takes.

"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove." 

That quote above should be credited to "wh" and not myself, although I do agree with it.

[VU2624]

Hail - as a Valpo, USC and MIT alum, I am just expressing how inconsistent the NCAA is with their punishment. Baylor is probably going to get a slap on the wrist even though the football team molested half the women on campus. The events that occurred at Penn State were so bad that they should have suspended football for several years. At USC, one player's parent stayed in a condo rent free for a year, and it put the football program back 7 years. Based on that experience and the passive way the USC administration handled it,  Valpo needs to be more proactive and vocal with the NCAA scum.

The NCAA does treat criminal issues and issues vs. the "program" differently. Academic problems and aid to an athlete which is outside the rules will be treated more harshly in a lot of cases than issues involving the criminal justice system. Whether that's fair or not is subject to opinion.

Despite the frustration of this whole scenario, we still have no idea of the scope of the problem with Jubril....and probably never will as the only person who can comment on it is Jubril and he can (not necessarily will) present a decidedly one sided view.  It does explain why Jubril and the team seemed perplexed a week or so ago as they probably felt Valpo's suggestion of half of a season suspension would be the end of it and then it was not.

[Just Sayin]

Bush league.

[Just Sayin]

Celebrate cheating. Celebrate dishonesty. Call justice injustice.

[valpopal]

Considering the wiggle room available in the tense of the Valparaiso University statement that Jubril "has been an integral member of the Valparaiso basketball team" rather than the present tense "is," and given that the complimentary language about Jubril in the Valparaiso University official statement declared his "legacy as a champion, Valparaiso University basketball player, or student," a question remains about his status at the Senior Night game. We know the NCAA did not allow him to travel with the team this weekend; however, I am assuming he still will be permitted to be present for the home game and be part of the Senior Night activities.


Despite the word choices of "has been" and "legacy," I hope (and expect) Jubril will be able to sit on the bench Tuesday night as well as to be introduced alongside his good friend Alec and the other seniors for an opportunity to address the fans after the game. Further, I anticipate the fans would give him a warm reception, not condoning the error he acknowledges, but in recognition that the punishment by the NCAA has been excessive and with the perception that the process has been unfair. If Jubril uses that opportunity, what he says and how he expresses himself will be interesting to hear. Likewise, I wouldn't be surprised to hear Alec recognize Jubril as well.


Senior night already promised to be dramatic as Alec Peters, perhaps Valpo's best player ever, offers a farewell. However, the evening now has added intrigue.     

[SanityLost17]

At one point in my life I considered myself a pretty good writer.  I was also broke and really needed some money. 

I made a lot of money writing papers for people while in school (I did not attend Valpo). 

In every case where I was paid to write a paper for another student, it was because that student was ignoring a "rather easy blow off class" to focus all of their energy on one of the classes they were really struggling with. 

On the surface all of the above would be labeled unethical.  However, if the above students would have written their own papers for their mandatory elective they really wouldn't have learned anything new and would have spent less time absorbing more difficult information needed for their future careers.  In the meantime I made a little bit of money. 

All of us learned lessons on time management, negotiations, and networking.   

"Cheating is cheating" is not true.   Everyone wants to label everything in black and white and ignore all the gray.   As others have said, we will likely never know the details of what exactly happened, but not all cheating is created equal.  Perhaps what he did constitutes a full year punishment, but I sorta doubt it.     

[VU2624]

At one point in my life I considered myself a pretty good writer.  I was also broke and really needed some money. I made a lot of money writing papers for people while in school (I did not attend Valpo). In every case where I was paid to write a paper for another student, it was because that student was ignoring a "rather easy blow off class" to focus all of their energy on one of the classes they were really struggling with. On the surface all of the above would be labeled unethical.  However, if the above students would have written their own papers for their mandatory elective they really wouldn't have learned anything new and would have spent less time absorbing more difficult information needed for their future careers.  In the meantime I made a little bit of money. All of us learned lessons on time management, negotiations, and networking. "Cheating is cheating" is not true.   Everyone wants to label everything in black and white and ignore all the gray.   As others have said, we will likely never know the details of what exactly happened, but not all cheating is created equal.  Perhaps what he did constitutes a full year punishment, but I sorta doubt it.

Let's keep in mind that Jubril, apparently, may have used whatever unauthorized aid he received to turn into Honor Roll recognition as well as separate NCAA academic leadership recognition. While we don't know the full extent of what aid Adekoya received or for what class whether rollover or not, if that's not troubling to you, no amount of anyone's opinion is going to sway anyone's opinion.

[VU2014]

The NCAA does treat criminal issues and issues vs. the "program" differently. Academic problems and aid to an athlete which is outside the rules will be treated more harshly in a lot of cases than issues involving the criminal justice system. Whether that's fair or not is subject to opinion.

There is a reason why the NCAA is so harsh and academic issues and unauthorized financial compensation. It's because it is at the heart of the NCAA business model and financing structure. If they appear to start getting relax on academics and getting soft the student part of student athlete then it softens the case to say that they are student athletes therefore they shouldn't get paid. Same goes for if they start to allow student athletes to be blatantly paid.

If Male Football and basketball athletes start to get paid then 'Title IX' gets to become a problem and maybe through the courts they have to start paying their female counterparts which are a net loss for revenue and actually cost athletic departments $ because they can't sustain themselves financially. If basketball and football get paid then via the court system they maybe have to pay other student athletes in different sports. It's sort of the slippery slope argument. I believe I read in the Washington Post that in most athletic departments only Football and Mens basketball programs make a profit or break even, and those profits are used to subsidize most other athletic sports team at the college.

Thats why I believe the NCAA is so harsh on academic and cases of paying student athletes. If the NCAA was force to actually pay athletes I don't think Schools like Valpo would have a very large athletics program or competitive one. Now there is an argument for small stipends and paying for food while at school but then we're getting into a whole different debate.

[wh]

Let's keep in mind that Jubril, apparently, may have used whatever unauthorized aid he received to turn into Honor Roll recognition as well as separate NCAA academic leadership recognition. While we don't know the full extent of what aid Adekoya received or for what class whether rollover or not, if that's not troubling to you, no amount of anyone's opinion is going to sway anyone's opinion.

On one hand you state that we don't know the full extent of what Jubril did, yet in the same breath you suggest that he's a serial cheater and academic fraud. In another post you noted that the only one who knows the truth is Jubril, then cautioned that his story might lack credibility. In yet another post, you suggest that the inexcusable length of time this thing has dragged on is immaterial. Whether the university or the NCAA mishandled the investigation - immaterial. Whether the punishment fits the crime - immaterial. So, what is material in your world - that Jubril brought this whole thing on himself. Period. End of story.

For others who might be interested, I would suggest that this poster's inference that Jubril is a long term cheater is highly unlikely. According to the university's academic policy, if Jubril had been found guilty of cheating in multiple courses, he would have failed those courses. In turn, he would not have been considered a student in good standing, nor been eligible to participate in athletics. There would have been no need to wait for an NCAA decision.

[valpotx]

In retrospect, even though it rubbed people/even players the wrong way to hold him out, it seems that Valpo made the correct decision to sit him immediately until the NCAA resolved the issue.  We might be talking about forfeited games, had Valpo not taken this approach. 

I do think that it is crap that it seems like there is a different standard for Power 5 schools versus the mid/low majors, but without knowing what happened, it is hard to make that claim in this instance.

[FieldGoodie05]

In retrospect, even though it rubbed people/even players the wrong way to hold him out, it seems that Valpo made the correct decision to sit him immediately until the NCAA resolved the issue.  We might be talking about forfeited games, had Valpo not taken this approach. 

I do think that it is crap that it seems like there is a different standard for Power 5 schools versus the mid/low majors, but without knowing what happened, it is hard to make that claim in this instance.

Did the announcement say it was concluded and ONLY Jubril would be punished?  Is there still a possibility VU has to be reprimanded (i.e. Vacate games).

The statement seemed only to touch upon the loss of Jubril.

[jsher3141]

Interesting note from the Detroit game recap posted on valpoathletics.com.

"The Crusaders (22-6, 12-3 Horizon) maintained their one-game lead in the Horizon League standings with the win and return home for the regular season home finale on Tuesday evening at the ARC. It will be Senior Night at the ARC, as – along with senior team managers, band members, cheerleaders and Crusaderettes – Peters, Hammink, Jubril Adekoya, Nick Davidson and Jason Karys will be honored in a pregame ceremony."

Glad the university is going to include him in Senior Night.  Can't wait to hear the speeches all around - from Coach Lottich, Alec, and Jubril himself.

[vu84v2]

At one point in my life I considered myself a pretty good writer.  I was also broke and really needed some money. 

I made a lot of money writing papers for people while in school (I did not attend Valpo). 

In every case where I was paid to write a paper for another student, it was because that student was ignoring a "rather easy blow off class" to focus all of their energy on one of the classes they were really struggling with. 

On the surface all of the above would be labeled unethical.  However, if the above students would have written their own papers for their mandatory elective they really wouldn't have learned anything new and would have spent less time absorbing more difficult information needed for their future careers.  In the meantime I made a little bit of money. 

All of us learned lessons on time management, negotiations, and networking.   

"Cheating is cheating" is not true.   Everyone wants to label everything in black and white and ignore all the gray.   As others have said, we will likely never know the details of what exactly happened, but not all cheating is created equal.  Perhaps what he did constitutes a full year punishment, but I sorta doubt it.     

This is very problematic. While I would agree that there are certainly different degrees of cheating, having your paper for any class written by someone else is cheating and writing someone else's paper for money is unethical and constitutes cheating. If a student faces the dilemma that you suggest, they need to work with the college and the applicable professors to find balance. However, regardless of the circumstances, if I found a student having a paper written by someone else I would automatically given them an F for the class and would refer the matter to the Honor Council.

[vu84v2]

The NCAA does treat criminal issues and issues vs. the "program" differently. Academic problems and aid to an athlete which is outside the rules will be treated more harshly in a lot of cases than issues involving the criminal justice system. Whether that's fair or not is subject to opinion.

There is a reason why the NCAA is so harsh and academic issues and unauthorized financial compensation. It's because it is at the heart of the NCAA business model and financing structure. If they appear to start getting relax on academics and getting soft the student part of student athlete then it softens the case to say that they are student athletes therefore they shouldn't get paid. Same goes for if they start to allow student athletes to be blatantly paid.

If Male Football and basketball athletes start to get paid then 'Title IX' gets to become a problem and maybe through the courts they have to start paying their female counterparts which are a net loss for revenue and actually cost athletic departments $ because they can't sustain themselves financially. If basketball and football get paid then via the court system they maybe have to pay other student athletes in different sports. It's sort of the slippery slope argument. I believe I read in the Washington Post that in most athletic departments only Football and Mens basketball programs make a profit or break even, and those profits are used to subsidize most other athletic sports team at the college.

Thats why I believe the NCAA is so harsh on academic and cases of paying student athletes. If the NCAA was force to actually pay athletes I don't think Schools like Valpo would have a very large athletics program or competitive one. Now there is an argument for small stipends and paying for food while at school but then we're getting into a whole different debate.

I think that wh has a very good point here. I would add that the reason why the NCAA treats academic and aid issues more harshly is that they are within their legal domain to do so. There is no criminal code with laws related to discovery and due process that can supersede anything that the NCAA does. Consider, for example, a student-athlete arrested for theft and the police investigate the crime, charges are filed and the process through the courts ensues. I doubt that the NCAA can gain access to non-public information regarding a criminal investigation. Thus, if they suspend the student-athlete, they are at risk of him or her being found not guilty and they have (at least from a legal perspective) unjustly punished the student-athlete. For academic and aid issues, the NCAA is the governing and investigative body and member institutions agree to give them that power when they sign up as NCAA members.

[usc4valpo]

As Christians are we not supposed to forgive? Oh, how soon I forget, it is the NCAA.