Rumor Central: Chicago State Looking at Joining PFL

[VULB#62]

Saw this rumor on the PFL Fan board.  If they run their football program like MBB and baseball............  ?

"Chicago State is a historically black university that has had severe funding and enrollment problems. The Illinois Legislature is partly to blame. Incompetent management at the campus level has also been a problem.

The school's academic reputation is weak. Tuition is ultra-low, even for a state school. It strives to serve the poor, mostly African-American students of Chicago's south side. It's a population that doesn't send a high percentage of people to college.

CSU's men's basketball coach, who is also the interim athletic director, has an idea on how to get paying students: start a nonscholarship football team. And a marching band...

Summary...

-Target startup year would be 2018 (too optimistic?).

-Chicago Public Schools would be primary recruiting territory. The AD actually said that this would be a way to keep young men off the streets and away from crime. Kinda like what Davidson is doing... Just kidding about DC.  8-|

-Annual tuition revenue would exceed program costs by more than one-third.

-Likely game venue would be Gately Stadium (8,000 seats) at 103rd & Cottage Grove. Nice city-owned high school stadium, which was renovated a few years ago. Artificial turf.

Formal board approval will be necessary. However, it sounds like they might get this done. Can't imagine the PFL objecting to their joining. I would see them as a potential long term member, rather than a school aspiring to a fully funded program. What are your thoughts?"

[VU2014]

If I'm the PFL I wouldn't exactly be thrilled at letting Chicago State into the conference. Chicago State might not be an educational institution in a year or 2. They had a Freshman enrollment of 86 student this Fall... The State of Illinois and City of Chicago are broke and have limited funding the public educational institutions.

This seems like school administrators scrambling to find ways to increase enrollment to the school and Football team in the PFL seems to be a great way since it would attract students who want to play football on a team but wouldn't have to give them financial assistance or a scholarship if they play on the team. Chicago State is struggling to survive and stay out of the red and this seems like a desperate hail-marry attempt...

[IndyValpo]

This is actually a brilliant idea just several years too late. I do not see the PFL adding them under any circumstance.

[VULB#62]

If I'm the PFL I wouldn't exactly be thrilled at letting Chicago State into the conference. Chicago State might not be an educational institution in a year or 2. They had a Freshman enrollment of 86 student this Fall... The State of Illinois and City of Chicago are broke and have limited funding the public educational institutions.

This seems like school administrators scrambling to find ways to increase enrollment to the school and Football team in the PFL seems to be a great way since it would attract students who want to play football on a team but wouldn't have to give them financial assistance or a scholarship if they play on the team. Chicago State is struggling to survive and stay out of the red and this seems like a desperate hail-marry attempt...

We are much closer to the scene here at Valpo than the people on the PFL fan board.  While they cited the problems that Chicago State faces, they probably don't fully grasp exactly how significant those problems really are.  So I agree with you 2014.  And besides, their makeup as a public university of dubious standing is in marked contrast to the types of schools who are members of the PFL, 9 of whom are private and the 10th is a state university in good standing with other viable programs in the OVC.  The other issue for Chicago State is that PFL teams travel nationally which is a budget drainer.  Non-scholarship D-I football is a huge commitment. It's not a great fit any way you look at it.

[historyman]

Chicago State might not be an educational institution in a year or 2. They had a Freshman enrollment of 86 student this Fall... The State of Illinois and City of Chicago are broke and have limited funding the public educational institutions.

Truly a sad situation. I actually talked to one of the 86 freshman the other day. This person really likes having fewer students in their entry level classes. I believe she said the lowest number was 10. The problem is that because of the funding issues undecided majors have had a lot of options cut off for declaring a major.

[wh]

The neighborhood adjacent to Chicago State has one of the highest murder rates in the murder capital of the United States. It is infested with gangs, drugs, staggering unemployment, and serious crime of every kind. If I lived there, why would I want to go to school in the hood when I can catch a bus and be at UIC's safe, attractive, highly regarded campus in a matter of minutes.

[usc4valpo]

UIC is an attractive campus?

[wh]

UIC is an attractive campus?

Attractive is a relative term. I'm guessing you've never visited Chicago State's campus.

[historyman]

The neighborhood adjacent to Chicago State has one of the highest murder rates in the murder capital of the United States. It is infested with gangs, drugs, staggering unemployment, and serious crime of every kind. If I lived there, why would I want to go to school in the hood when I can catch a bus and be at UIC's safe, attractive, highly regarded campus in a matter of minutes.

As someone who has worked around these campuses over the summer I think you will find that you must pass a guard gate at Chicago State to enter the campus. Whether that security is effective is another matter. The neighborhood is considered Roseland. In the UIC neighborhood which includes University Village/Little Italy and the Illinois Medical District is the Near West side, has security but no way to gate the campus.

Here are some numbers from the Chicago Tribune on crime in the last 30 days that was published/posted on Dec. 23rd for a period ending Dec. 16.

http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/community


Roseland         http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/community/roseland
Near West Side        http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/community/near-west-side

Roseland  88 violent crimes, 159 property crimes, 94 quality of life crimes
Near West Side  63 violent crimes, 365 property crimes, 96 quality of life crimes

What I think you find if you look at the maps where the campuses are that the Tribune publishes that property crime is much higher around UIC and that violent crime is just a bit higher around Chicago State with the gated campus. The relative affluence of the UIC students may lead to more of that property crime.


The University of Chicago, who has the money for greater security, actually posts guards on every corner of the UC campus during the evenings. Look at the Hyde Park crime numbers as a result.

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-University-of-Chicago-in-an-unsafe-neighborhood








Nora Rivkis, studied at University of Chicago

Written Feb 7, 2015



No, it's actually in a very safe neighborhood, but its safe neighborhood is itself in an unsafe neighbhood. There's a reason for this.
Back in the 1950s and 1960s, Hyde Park (the neighborhood that houses the U of C) was starting to get dangerous enough to cause the university to lose some first-rate students and faculty to other schools, because they didn't feel comfortable there. The school actually considered moving, for a while (can you just imagine, the University of Chicago at Arizona?) They decided to take a different, but just as drastic, step to protect their community.

They bought the neighborhood. Pretty much all of it.

There's still commercial real estate which is owned by other companies, of course; and privately owned houses. But every single apartment building between 61st street and 47th street, and between Cottage Grove and the lakefront, is now owned by the University of Chicago. They kicked out prior occupants more or less recklessly, and they installed their own students, faculty and staff in as many of the apartments as they could. Then they made sure to rent the others to people whose background they had checked and trusted.

That was step one. Step two was to create the third largest police force in the state of Illinois, after the City of Chicago and the City of Springfield.

The U of C's private police force is enormous, given that it only has to patrol a couple square miles of space. It's so big they can - and do! - run a service where anyone who feels uncomfortable with walking home at night can phone for a cop car, and they will get escorted all the way by an individual police car just for them. It drives beside you as you walk (you do have to stick to streets which go the correct direction). They won't give you a lift for the simple reason that if they did, EVERYONE would be dialing a cop all winter, just to get in out of the cold. But they will stay with you until you've reached your own door, found your keys, and disappeared inside.

Between those two factors, the neighborhood of Hyde Park/Kenwood is one of the safest in Chicago. Oh, it's still a city; don't get stupid or forget to keep your eyes open - but for a major urban area, it's about as safe as it gets.

Outside the immediate neighborhood, however, is a different matter. Set one foot outside the borders I named above (61st, 47th, Cottage Grove) and you can *feel* the difference. Then you're in the heart of the South Side, the largest poor and unsafe neighborhood in the United States; and it is NOT a good place to linger.

Most students who want to leave the neighborhood take the Jeffrey Express bus downtown. It stops several places well within Hyde Park's borders, and then takes off directly down Lake Shore Drive to let you off in the Loop. On the way back, it zips you right past the rough neighborhoods the same way.
The near south side neighborhoods, between Hyde Park and the Loop, have become a great deal better than they were when I was a student. But the U of C's private island of a neighborhood is still the best protection for students.

[wh]

UIC students walk freely around campus, as well as the adjacent medical district, Greektown, etc. - day and evening. There are eateries, shops and hotels in the area. During normal hours, the entire area is booming with activity. And yes, there are high crime neighborhoods to the immediate south and west where no one with any sense dares go.

This is in stark contrast to Chicago State, which more closely resembles a medium security prison than an institution of higher learning. High crime neighborhoods in every direction begin at the sidewalk just outside the 10' perimeter fence. Urban blight permeates everything. It is one of the most depressing areas in the city.

[usc4valpo]

There is no way Chi State will have football based on their enrollment and budget issues. But the idea is interesting - suppose they recruit the Chicago Public League and a vast array of JUCOs. Imagine the players they can get from Lane Tech, Phillips and Simeon. Also, imagine a former Chicago Bear like Mike Singletary becoming the head coach as a labor of love. It could be a really cool rags-to-riches story.

[valpofb16]

Don't logistically see why the PFL would pick this team up. Maybe the Chicago market but Northwestern, UIC are there already. Aside from that the PFL is heavily (aside from San Diego circa '05-'15 and Jacksonville '10-'15) built on academic scholarships. Also add in danger of campus area, lack of academic success for many recruits eligible to attend, and limited resources/enrollment for the school, I think it would be an awful move for the conference as a whole. That being said it would be an automatic win for the staff at Valpo so as a fan and alumni I'm all for it!

[VULB#62]

UIC doesn'play football. It is just us and maybe Chicago State.  They would be another Missouri Christian in our conference and annually would pose the question of whether they would even have a team.  NFW.

[bbtds]

UIC doesn'play football. It is just us and maybe Chicago State.  They would be another Missouri Christian Baptist in our conference and annually would pose the question of whether they would even have a team.  NFW.

MO Baptist beat Taylor U of Upland, IN, Dale Carlson's Lindenwood-Belleville Lynx and Lyon College of Batesville, AR this past season. 3 wins is better than zero wins.

[VULB#62]

In Dave Cecchini's first season in 2014 we beat MBU 55-7.  It was their first year as an NAIA program. They played home games in a nearby HS stadium - still do.  They list 24 sports available to their students including both men's and women's lacrosse and wrestling.  Glad to see that they are improving and being competitive.  Perhaps I should have used College of Faith instead as my example, but you get my point. Speaking of which, here is an article on "non-countable opponents" with most of the COF schools noted.  http://herosports.com/collegefootball/faith-ncaa-cracks-non-countables
At least Chicago State, IMO, would qualify as an NCAA countable opponent.

[VULB#62]

Visiting the PFL Fan Forum, I noticed a thread on Stetson's issues.  One article indicated that Stetson might be going scholarship because they are losing guys to scholarship programs at state schools.  On the other hand, a Mercer poster speculated that they would drop football in favor of men's lacrosse.

http://pflfan.proboards.com/thread/2974/stetsons-future

[VU2624]

It's a big year for Hughes. Stetson's best shot was last year and they really didn't capitalize on it with some really poor performance in some games, including vs. Valpo followed great performance in other games such as Campbell and Brown. They lose a bunch of decent to very good players and because of graduation and not the threat from other schools. So, I think, Hughes is just complaining about the situation. He's got to be joking about the OLmen he supposedly lost to scholarship (which I'm not sure happened) plus one of them was a LS for the most part. Interesting that Valpo can have a quarter of the squad from Stetson's home state and keep all of them while the home state Stetson complains about losing players. Kudos to Valpo's staff in that case. Maybe Coach Hughes should spend more time encouraging his running backs not to run out of bounds instead of turning upfield and running into contact. If he doesn't, he won't be around for any chance at a scholarship program anyway.

Not sure on the scholarship issue with Stetson. My guess is the LaCrosse theory has as much weight as the football scholarship program theory.