Motor City Madness ... What a joke

[justducky]

Stress Reaction: Will heal fully with 2 weeks complete rest.  Soft spot on the bone, no Crack yet. 

Stress Fracture: 6 full weeks off for full recovery. Bone is cracked.

In both cases you can baby the bone through the end of the season. Usually no more than 2 days a week of impact drills.  Basically giving the bone 3-4 days no impact after a stressful day.

Got it. So now all we have to do is get the HL and JLA to agree to a Friday, Saturday, Wednesday, Sunday format. 

[a3uge]

Also, from the Horizon Leagues perspective: Valpo had already been actively flirting with another conference. So why should they be looking to keep us happy?

Because we've been the toast of the conference since Butler left. In the six seasons since then, Valpo has won the conference or tied for first five times. We also had more postseason wins last year than anyone else has had. I know it was the NIT, but other teams have had opportunities and blew it. Even our NCAA losses have been more competitive than the others:
2012: 15 Detroit lost to Kansas by 15 points (65-50)
2013: 14 Valparaiso lost to Michigan State by 11 points (65-54)
2014: 15 Milwaukee lost to Villanova by 20 points (73-53)
2015: 13 Valparaiso lost to Maryland by 3 points (65-62) (I won't mention the blown call at the end)
2016: 14 Green Bay lost to Texas A&M by 27 points (92-65), while Valpo makes a run to the NIT final.
2017: I'd be surprised if anyone not named Valpo or Oakland is able to keep their game within a single digit margin.

You know this, I know this, everyone on this board knows this, but if/when we leave that will be a huge loss for the Horizon League. I know we haven't had the FF runs that Butler has had, and if we did, we'd be playing our conference tournament in St. Louis and competing for at-larges.

"Even our NCAA losses have been more competitive than the others"

So what?  Using your twisted logic, I could argue the following:

2012 - Detroit loses to Kansas by 15, but Kansas' next loss wasn't until the final game.  Hey, Detroit beats Kansas and they are playing Kentucky for the championship
2013 - Valpo loses to MSU by 11, but MSU didn't get past the Sweet Sixteen, so your loss is worse than Detroit in 2012.
2014 - Milw lost to Villanova, but Villanova would lose their next game to UConn (Champ) the next game.
2015 - Valpo loses to Maryland, who would then lose their next game to West Virgina, who would then lose their next game to Kentucky, who would then only make it to the Final four.

So, by six degrees of Kevin Bacon, your two losses are both worse than Detroit AND Milw.  Neither team you lost to played either team in the Final game.

There is a reason no other conference is calling for Valpo.  You are not as good as you think.   

The problem isn't that Valpo has become too good for the conference... It's that too many teams like Detroit consistently suck and drag the league down.

[motowntitan]

You guys just don't get it.

• Since Butler left, the Horizon league has had the worst run ever in the NCAA Tourney.  It is currently at five straight 1st NCAA round losses. 2012-2016
• This year has showed that we don't have a team capable of making a run in the tourney.
• The "Butler money" is gone.  So, find me another place that will give each school $20k.  no one is earning any decent Tourney money soon.
• You don't think ESPN had a say in this?  In 2014, they had to switch locations from GB to the Nutter with only two days notice- They incurred the additional travel cost and stress of moving their "team".  That expenditure may not seem like alot, but in the penny pinching corporate world it was un-budgeted.
• There are only 6 other conferences that still have their tourney at the campus sites.  They are America East; Atlantic Sun; Big South; Northeast; Patriot; SWAC.  Those are the conferences you want to compare the Horizon league to?

A few answers to your points:

1. Yes. Five straight years. And if we keep sending middle-of-the-pack teams on a hot streak (like last year), we're going to keep losing NCAA games.

2. Debatable. I could see Oakland or a healthy Valpo making the Sweet 16. It's not likely and wouldn't pull a ton of money, but if you want consistent deep runs, you're gonna have to start looking at the B1G.

3. I know there aren't a lot of deep pockets around, but if the HL and it's member schools are utterly reliant on consistent NCAA tournament run money, we need to do some better planning.

4. I have no doubt ESPN has had a say in the formatting (especially the days of the week it's played on), but I don't feel sorry for them one bit. The possibility of switching locations should not have taken them by surprise -- they should know the tournament venue rules before they agree to cover the game. And if they want to be sticklers about it, fine. Play the conference championship at the 1 seed venue no matter what, then they won't have to move on short notice. I know that happened in Cleveland a few years ago in front of a lot of empty seats, but guess what we're seeing in the championship game at the Joe? A lot of empty seats. So what difference does it make?

5. I've never understood the "but other conferences are doing it too!" argument. Did your mother ever ask you if all your friends were jumping off a bridge, if you'd do it as well? Neutral site works much better for high major conferences, which the HL is not. Motor City Madness does not make the HL any more like a high major than Jordan sneakers make a middle schooler play like Michael Jordan himself. As a matter of fact, a few more years of 15-seed, cannon fodder autobids from the HL are going to put us moving in the opposite direction.

• We sent only two middle of the pack teams in 5 years.  The other three teams failed (Detroit once, Valpo twice.
• At this point it is debatable, i would love to be wrong, but both teams lost to several inferior teams.
• It's $100k of free money per year.  Someone is paying for you to come play.  Quit being a bunch of whiny babies.  You want to be in a 'bigger conference" then act like it.
• The difference is the cost to them to have to make travel arrangements(flight, hotels, etc).  That is a huge cost to them. They control the tv games they have with us.  That's the difference it makes.
• If all my friends were from the America East; Atlantic Sun; Big South; Northeast; Patriot; SWAC, then no.    There are 32 conferences in D1.  Only those lower six are doing exactly what you are wanting to do.  Your argument is conflicting- you say you want to leave and play your tourney in St. Louis, but then you say we should have it at some high school sized gyms?  FYI, the Horizon has been moving in the opposite direction, that is my whole point.  Last year, Middle Tenn State beat heavily favored MSU.  quit making "seed" excuses

[valpopal]

Perhaps the team could get to the tournament finals without Peters, and he could return for the final game in the manner of Willis Reed in the 7th game of the NBA finals! [An allusion to one of the favorite sports memories in my childhood.]

[motowntitan]

The problem isn't that Valpo has become too good for the conference... It's that too many teams like Detroit consistently suck and drag the league down.

Then why haven't you gone undefeated and won at least one 1st round game?

[wh]

Do any of us troll on OU or UDM forums?  AKA who is leading the bottom feeders from other teams to our forum?

Easy. Motowntitan is a respected member of the loyal opposition - not a troll. Legit visitors are always welcome to present opposing views. 

[FieldGoodie05]

Do any of us troll on OU or UDM forums?  AKA who is leading the bottom feeders from other teams to our forum?

Easy. Motowntitan is a respected member of the loyal opposition - not a troll. Legit visitors are always welcome to present opposing views. 

You may feel that way, I respectfully do not.  This is a VU fan forum, not a place to worry about any team but our own.  I don't touch other fans' forums because I couldn't care less about their gripes.

I'm worried about us getting better and taking our team dancing.

[justducky]

Easy. Motowntitan is a respected member of the loyal opposition - not a troll. Legit visitors are always welcome to present opposing views. 

Perhaps the team could get to the tournament finals without Peters, and he could return for the final game in the manner of Willis Reed in the 7th game of the NBA finals!

Not trying to egg on a rivalry argument but Detroit could be our first opponent and I could imagine Matt trying to sit Alec for much or all of that contest. Maybe he could dress Alec and tell the team that he will play no more than the last 5 minutes and the rest is up to them.

[a3uge]

The problem isn't that Valpo has become too good for the conference... It's that too many teams like Detroit consistently suck and drag the league down.

Then why haven't you gone undefeated and won at least one 1st round game?

We can't complain about teams in the conference winning only one game out of conference until we go undefeated and win in the first round?

[valpotx]

Also, from the Horizon Leagues perspective: Valpo had already been actively flirting with another conference. So why should they be looking to keep us happy?

Because we've been the toast of the conference since Butler left. In the six seasons since then, Valpo has won the conference or tied for first five times. We also had more postseason wins last year than anyone else has had. I know it was the NIT, but other teams have had opportunities and blew it. Even our NCAA losses have been more competitive than the others:
2012: 15 Detroit lost to Kansas by 15 points (65-50)
2013: 14 Valparaiso lost to Michigan State by 11 points (65-54)
2014: 15 Milwaukee lost to Villanova by 20 points (73-53)
2015: 13 Valparaiso lost to Maryland by 3 points (65-62) (I won't mention the blown call at the end)
2016: 14 Green Bay lost to Texas A&M by 27 points (92-65), while Valpo makes a run to the NIT final.
2017: I'd be surprised if anyone not named Valpo or Oakland is able to keep their game within a single digit margin.

You know this, I know this, everyone on this board knows this, but if/when we leave that will be a huge loss for the Horizon League. I know we haven't had the FF runs that Butler has had, and if we did, we'd be playing our conference tournament in St. Louis and competing for at-larges.

"Even our NCAA losses have been more competitive than the others"

So what?  Using your twisted logic, I could argue the following:

2012 - Detroit loses to Kansas by 15, but Kansas' next loss wasn't until the final game.  Hey, Detroit beats Kansas and they are playing Kentucky for the championship
2013 - Valpo loses to MSU by 11, but MSU didn't get past the Sweet Sixteen, so your loss is worse than Detroit in 2012.
2014 - Milw lost to Villanova, but Villanova would lose their next game to UConn (Champ) the next game.
2015 - Valpo loses to Maryland, who would then lose their next game to West Virgina, who would then lose their next game to Kentucky, who would then only make it to the Final four.

So, by six degrees of Kevin Bacon, your two losses are both worse than Detroit AND Milw.  Neither team you lost to played either team in the Final game.

There is a reason no other conference is calling for Valpo.  You are not as good as you think.   

It's a good thing that we know that we are much better than Detroit .  The only thing that you guys have going for you when it comes to the potential of moving leagues, is that you reside in a large city.  You have nothing else to offer...whereas, we have a sh!+ ton of championship banners hanging in our gym, with 13-14 regular season titles and 9 NCAA trips in the last 22 years...***drop mic***

[hailcrusaders]

Do any of us troll on OU or UDM forums?  AKA who is leading the bottom feeders from other teams to our forum?

Easy. Motowntitan is a respected member of the loyal opposition - not a troll. Legit visitors are always welcome to present opposing views. 

I don't mind him presenting opposing views, but the "you guys just don't get it" and "whiny babies" remarks are uncalled for.

[hailcrusaders]

You guys just don't get it.

• Since Butler left, the Horizon league has had the worst run ever in the NCAA Tourney.  It is currently at five straight 1st NCAA round losses. 2012-2016
• This year has showed that we don't have a team capable of making a run in the tourney.
• The "Butler money" is gone.  So, find me another place that will give each school $20k.  no one is earning any decent Tourney money soon.
• You don't think ESPN had a say in this?  In 2014, they had to switch locations from GB to the Nutter with only two days notice- They incurred the additional travel cost and stress of moving their "team".  That expenditure may not seem like alot, but in the penny pinching corporate world it was un-budgeted.
• There are only 6 other conferences that still have their tourney at the campus sites.  They are America East; Atlantic Sun; Big South; Northeast; Patriot; SWAC.  Those are the conferences you want to compare the Horizon league to?

A few answers to your points: 1. Yes. Five straight years. And if we keep sending middle-of-the-pack teams on a hot streak (like last year), we're going to keep losing NCAA games. 2. Debatable. I could see Oakland or a healthy Valpo making the Sweet 16. It's not likely and wouldn't pull a ton of money, but if you want consistent deep runs, you're gonna have to start looking at the B1G. 3. I know there aren't a lot of deep pockets around, but if the HL and it's member schools are utterly reliant on consistent NCAA tournament run money, we need to do some better planning. 4. I have no doubt ESPN has had a say in the formatting (especially the days of the week it's played on), but I don't feel sorry for them one bit. The possibility of switching locations should not have taken them by surprise -- they should know the tournament venue rules before they agree to cover the game. And if they want to be sticklers about it, fine. Play the conference championship at the 1 seed venue no matter what, then they won't have to move on short notice. I know that happened in Cleveland a few years ago in front of a lot of empty seats, but guess what we're seeing in the championship game at the Joe? A lot of empty seats. So what difference does it make? 5. I've never understood the "but other conferences are doing it too!" argument. Did your mother ever ask you if all your friends were jumping off a bridge, if you'd do it as well? Neutral site works much better for high major conferences, which the HL is not. Motor City Madness does not make the HL any more like a high major than Jordan sneakers make a middle schooler play like Michael Jordan himself. As a matter of fact, a few more years of 15-seed, cannon fodder autobids from the HL are going to put us moving in the opposite direction.

• We sent only two middle of the pack teams in 5 years.  The other three teams failed (Detroit once, Valpo twice.
• At this point it is debatable, i would love to be wrong, but both teams lost to several inferior teams.
• It's $100k of free money per year.  Someone is paying for you to come play.  Quit being a bunch of whiny babies.  You want to be in a 'bigger conference" then act like it.
• The difference is the cost to them to have to make travel arrangements(flight, hotels, etc).  That is a huge cost to them. They control the tv games they have with us.  That's the difference it makes.
• If all my friends were from the America East; Atlantic Sun; Big South; Northeast; Patriot; SWAC, then no.    There are 32 conferences in D1.  Only those lower six are doing exactly what you are wanting to do.  Your argument is conflicting- you say you want to leave and play your tourney in St. Louis, but then you say we should have it at some high school sized gyms?  FYI, the Horizon has been moving in the opposite direction, that is my whole point.  Last year, Middle Tenn State beat heavily favored MSU.  quit making "seed" excuses

1. That's the whole point. At the four high-seed hosted tournaments since Butler's FF runs, the high-seed won twice, the 3 seed once, and the 5 seed once. That's three out of four tournaments won by top-tier HL teams, two of four by the top seed. Only once did a sub-.500 team win the tournament. Last year, at the Joe, an average Green Bay team caught a hot streak, won the tournament, but got curb stomped in the Dance and made the HL look bad. That's going to happen more often if we play a neutral site tournament. A high seed host emphasizes winning in the HL regular season and makes it easier for the top seed to win and make a respectable showing in the NCAAs.

2. I think this one is subjective, but if you look at double-digit seeds that historically made the Sweet 16, I think you'll find quite a few of them lost to a mediocre team or two in the regular season. There's a reason they're double digit seeds.

3. I'm trying to think beyond money, more about wins. Prioritizing money over postseason wins is why Oakland would schedule a ridiculous amount of road games against elite teams in past years -- they'd make a lot of money on it, but come out with a horrible OOC winning percentage, which would wreck their own RPI and screw over the other teams in the conference who had to play them twice and ruin their own RPIs. Oakland's gotten better about it, but the point is that you can't prioritize money over wins and expect to succeed.

4. Like I said, play the championship at the high seed's court no matter what then. It may be a little empty if the high seed falls early, but that's less likely if they're playing on their home court. It was pretty empty at the Joe last year anyway (no, I don't believe the announced attendance totals were accurate to the number of people actually there, so spare me that one). The media won't have to travel at the last minute.

5. My point with the St. Louis comment was that if we were in the Valley, we would have a realistic shot of an at-large on a good year because we would be playing Wichita State, Ill. St., and UNI twice a year instead of RPI killers at the basement of the Horizon (I won't name any names). Our postseason fate wouldn't depend solely on the conference tournament as it effectively does now.

[bbtds]

There is a reason no other conference is calling for Valpo.  You are not as good as you think.   

There is much truth to that statement as far as this message board goes.

It's a good thing that we know that we are much better than Detroit .  The only thing that you guys have going for you when it comes to the potential of moving leagues, is that you reside in a large city.  You have nothing else to offer...whereas, we have a sh!+ ton of championship banners hanging in our gym, with 13-14 regular season titles and 9 NCAA trips in the last 22 years...***drop mic***

At the end of the day that is not a reason for another conference to covet Valpo. This plays right into motowntitan's point.

[NativeCheesehead]

bbtds,

You make a couple of decent points but you forget how big consistency is to mid major conferences. While we may not be as good as we think we are, how many years in the past 25 were we an outright embarrassment and RPI drain to our conference? Last season's failure to secure an at large was ultimately our fault, but a case could (and had been) made that the complacency and low standards of Youngstown State, Cleveland State, and Detroit (who let Ray linger on far too long), that cost us that addition RPI boost we needed. But again, it really is a moot point. Barring a large conference shake up, only the MVC makes sense, and they only call us when WSU leaves. At which point it's hardly worth the move. 

[bbtds]

bbtds,

You make a couple of decent points but you forget how big consistency is to mid major conferences. While we may not be as good as we think we are, how many years in the past 25 were we an outright embarrassment and RPI drain to our conference? Last season's failure to secure an at large was ultimately our fault, but a case could (and had been) made that the complacency and low standards of Youngstown State, Cleveland State, and Detroit (who let Ray linger on far too long), that cost us that addition RPI boost we needed. But again, it really is a moot point. Barring a large conference shake up, only the MVC makes sense, and they only call us when WSU leaves. At which point it's hardly worth the move. 

Yes, the complacency and low standards of Youngstown State, Cleveland State (this could be argued because CSU recruited well but the student athletes left for bigger programs) and Detroit Mercy did cost Valpo RPI points and possibly a spot in the NCAA tournament. But they didn't cost Valpo a move to the MVC. The lower end of the HL had nothing to do with a possible MVC move. The lower end of the HL had nothing to do with Butler's move to the A-10/Big East.

[EddieCabot]

It's a good thing that we know that we are much better than Detroit .  The only thing that you guys have going for you when it comes to the potential of moving leagues, is that you reside in a large city.  You have nothing else to offer...whereas, we have a sh!+ ton of championship banners hanging in our gym, with 13-14 regular season titles and 9 NCAA trips in the last 22 years...***drop mic***

Nicely stated.  Valpo is clearly the league's best program ... the HL should be making it easier for Valpo to win the tournament, not harder (which they've done with MCM and new format).

[NativeCheesehead]

Geez, between Grizz and this guy I'm beginning to think the Detroit schools have a complex.

[FWalum]

Do any of us troll on OU or UDM forums?  AKA who is leading the bottom feeders from other teams to our forum?

For your information, these "trolls" have been on this forum long before this and for the most part are pretty well respected.  Hearing the other side of the argument is often a good thing.

I guess wh already said this, but I also think the snarky comments were started by some of our comments not theirs.

[VU2014]

http://www.midmajormadness.com/2017/2/27/14745682/2017-horizon-league-tournament-bracket-oakland-overtakes-valpo-on-the-leagues-final-day

https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/836268161829908480

2017 Horizon League Tournament Bracket: Oakland overtakes Valpo on the league's final day
Last year Green Bay shocked everyone. Could another challenger rise up or will the favorites hold serve?
by Andrew Evans@andyevans16  Feb 27, 2017, 9:30am PST

Oakland entered Sunday's action needing both a win and a Valparaiso loss to claim a share of the Horizon League regular season title and the No. 1 seed at Motor City Madness.

They got exactly what they wanted.

Valparaiso came into the final weekend of regular season play clinging to a one-game lead over Oakland. The Crusaders dealt a serious blow on Friday night when it was revealed Alec Peters had suffered a leg injury and would be day-to-day. They managed to defeat Wright State without Peters on Friday night. But, they were not so lucky on Sunday afternoon, falling to Northern Kentucky by a final of 82-78.

The Valparaiso loss opened the door for Oakland to sneak into a first place tie. The Golden Grizzlies took advantage of the opportunity, defeating Milwaukee 86-75 behind Sherron Dorsey-Walker's eight three-pointers. The win also secured the top seed in the Horizon League Tournament as a result of Oakland's regular season sweep of Valparaiso.

Oakland appears to have moved beyond their late January struggles. Between Jan. 13th and 27th, the Golden Grizzlies dropped four of five games and were on the brink of falling out of the conference title race. Since then, they ripped off nine consecutive wins and roll into the Horizon League Tournament on a hot streak. Given the way they handled Valparaiso with relative ease both times they met, the Golden Grizzlies should be favored if the two meet again in the conference championship game.

Valparaiso, on the other hand, enters the tournament facing a great deal of uncertainty. The injury to Peters will be a major factor. While the Crusaders fared well without Peters this past weekend on the offensive end, they may not go far without his firepower.

Given the events of last year's tournament, it would be a mistake to only focus on the top two seeds. A year ago, fourth-seeded Green Bay surprised everyone to win the inaugural Motor City Madness. The same could happen again if Oakland goes cold and Valparaiso is without Peters.

Leading the contenders from the rest of pack is repeat-minded Green Bay. The Phoenix hold wins over both Oakland and Valparaiso. Furthermore, they have last year's experience under their belt.

.....

Give the rest a click/read

I still give Valpo a good chance especially if Alec is healthy and ready to play.

[wh]

You guys just don't get it.   

• The "Butler money" is gone.  So, find me another place that will give each school $20k.  no one is earning any decent Tourney money soon.

In all due respect, 20K is pocket change. That's just LeCrone telling the sponsors they have to give him a bone to throw to the programs to help seal the deal. If someone needs 20K that bad, schedule a throw away game with a top Major and make 4-5 times that much. Heck, a group of us ran a golf tournament for charity a few years ago that made 80K and a Smoker that netted 65K. 20K - give me a break.

[crusaderjoe]

You guys just don't get it.   

• The "Butler money" is gone.  So, find me another place that will give each school $20k.  no one is earning any decent Tourney money soon.

In all due respect, 20K is pocket change. That's just LeCrone telling the sponsors they have to give him a bone to throw to the programs to help seal the deal. If someone needs 20K that bad, schedule a throw away game with a top Major and make 4-5 times that much. Heck, a group of us ran a golf tournament for charity a few years ago that made 80K and a Smoker that netted 65K. 20K - give me a break.

Valpo wouldn't even need to do that.  Schedule the worst FBS football team on the face of the planet and VU would probably get 10 times that amount to go to their place, at a minimum.  I suppose motowntitan makes a point in that it is better to earn $20K than to not earn or to lose $20K but you are right wh, in the whole scheme of things $20K isn't a lot of money athletically speaking.

[StlVUFan]

I actually like the logic of rewarding top finishes with extra perks in conference tournament ... up to a point:

1. The 2 seed has always gotten screwed in the old format - no home games unless #1 loses in semis
2. There's just a bit of a small-sample size problem that ruins it all for me - 18 games is nowhere near enough to decide who the best team is, at least not enough to go around handing out a double-bye AND home court advantage.

My problem with the previous format is purely philosophical.  I thoroughly enjoyed seeing Valpo host 3 out of 4 years, you can count on that.  But I also hated the first round.  I am in that small minority that is not the least bit interested in sitting at home and watching these games on TV or my computer (and especially trying to watch 4 games at once on Tuesday night - go away with that crap).

If I had my druthers, I'd put the tournament where no team's fanbase would have a travel advantage, but it'll never happen, and I don't care enough about the "injustice" to get upset about it.  I thoroughly enjoyed the tournament last year, except for the double-bye which I also have always viewed as excessive.  Of course it was a bummer that we lost, but overall I thought it was a great tournament.

It should be noted that I don't care what it looked like on TV or how many fans were in attendance.  Those are other people's problems, not mine.  I go to watch 5-on-5, not the fans.

If we could definitively prove who the best team in the conference is, then I would be against the conference tournament and for just sending that team.  All of which is to say that I think this "rewarding" the best team idea is ridiculous.  We have conference tournaments precisely because we don't know who the best team is.  If we knew who it was, we wouldn't need the tournament.

The fact is, it's always going to be in a city with close ties to one or more HL schools.  And jealousy swings both ways (technically it's the haves who are "jealous"; the have nots are "envious") - if Oakland had been the standard bearer for 4 years and was looking at building a dynasty and suddenly the HL office decided to move to a neutral site somewhere in Chicago, the Oakland fan base would include plenty of whiners who sound just like we do -- and we'd be over there telling *them* to grow a pair.

I understand the frustration.  I felt a bit of it too when the shift was announced, even as I agreed with the move.  Fans who are used to winning get like this.  It happens everywhere.  Fans who are constantly chasing winning teams think those fans are the absolute worst in the world.

And it's all relative.

I heard about the insanity going on over here from an Oakland fan I interact with on twitter.  And I told him this is a common phenomenon in sports.  I get twitchy anytime I perceive that a fanbase is being singled out.  I live in St. Louis and root for the Cardinals, so I've had some experience with this.  As if no other fanbases have their fair share of racist, homophobic fans like Cardinals fans do (Please).

I like the new setup.  I like it as a basketball junkie - I think being at the game beats watching it on TV to the nth degree.  I like it from a competitive standpoint.

And I also think that the problems the HL face, while somewhat self-inflicted, are also problems shared by the lower 26 entirely and need to be solved at the NCAA level rather than by us using gimmicks as band-aids.  I'd like to see the NCAA reform non-conference scheduling and do something about all the power conference snow-flakes and their politically correct scheduling.  They hold the rest of us in chains in November and December and we end up fighting over the at-large scraps that fall from the master's table.  Deplorable.  Sad!

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/MattSBN/status/836604413556948995

Not the goal but just saw this

[IndyValpo]

If I had my druthers, I'd put the tournament where no team's fanbase would have a travel advantage

Simple answer go to Las Vegas. They already have the PAC-12, MWC, WCC and WAC. They could easily fit us in. 

[hailcrusaders]

If I had my druthers, I'd put the tournament where no team's fanbase would have a travel advantage

Simple answer go to Las Vegas. They already have the PAC-12, MWC, WCC and WAC. They could easily fit us in.

I'm reminded of the Big Sky, who has their conference tournament in Reno, NV, even though there isn't a singe Big Sky team in Nevada and the conference powers (Weber St, Montana) have 10 hour drives from campus just to get there. That said, it isn't well attended and I think it's in the best interest of the conference (any conference) to have as many interested fans at the tournament as possible.