Motor City Madness ... What a joke

[a3uge]

Lol Bryce is the one who left us with 3 open scholarships, a graduating Peters, and no point guard backup after Carter (which is the reason why we didn't make the tournament last year). He also took along Valpo's top assistant, and probably tried to take along players (Skara... Peters?).

Lottich isn't the reason why Valpo was starting a walk-on.

We can't blame Bryce. He left us Alec Peters. It was a strange year with the large amount of open scholarships, but EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE from the players, coaches, ADs, Horizon League Leadership thought Keith Carter would get another year. He was hurt the freshman year and played only a handful of minutes and SLU refused to red-shirt him because they knew he wanted to transfer with the new Coaching staff turnover there at the time. NCAA screwed us on that.

The one thing I'm curious to find out the back story on was Skara transfer. We all know that the scumbag from Don Bosco "Prep" Maravilla used David Skara as a leverage to get a coach on staff with Valpo and then forced him to transfer. Bryce wanted to bring Skara over to Vandy once he knew Skara was transferring but skara wasn't aloud to go to Vandy but was aloud anywhere else. (that is normal procedure for ADs in granting transfers). I just don't know if we even know the whole story there.

The point being is that the cupboard wasn't bare but there were glaring recruiting holes at some positions. I don't blame Bryce and I don't blame Lottich either.

Valpo has had a lot of Bad Luck the last 12 months. If we have Healthy Peters (would be healthy with less min), Skara, Jubril and Keith Carter then we may be an outright tourney bid team and would have a had a better shot of not losing to Santa Clara, better chance against Oregon, Better showing against Kentucky on the road, and probably wouldn't lose 4 Conference games (you always have to expect 1-2 tourney losses regardless). We'd be a different team...

Leaving a slot open for Carter would explain one of the available scholarships. As unlucky and bad this season may have seemed, it could have started a LOT worse had Peters gone somewhere else. I can't blame Bryce for the roster construction where we had 0 recruits the year prior (well one, but Revalo wasn't that good), but he didn't exactly reload the team before he left.

[Brandon]

Why would he? If you've read one thread you've read them all!

Actually, he does on an infrequent basis (alludes a bit to M's seen-one, seen-them-all observation), but he does check it out every now and again.   I'm also pretty sure that some athletic department people and athletes do as well but keep a low profile or only view as guests. For example, Matt LaBarbera and Brandon Vickery were frequent contributors (Brandon has been quiet and his Twitter feed has been less frequent since he joined the Sports Information Department F/T however.)  And even from Ohio State, Matt will occasionally chime in or share some news.

I definitely enjoy reading the forum - I think it's important for someone in my position to know what fans are talking about and care about. Also, for those of us that, in many ways, dedicate our lives to ValpoAthletics, I think it's nice to see how many people have a passion for what we do. A couple reasons behind my drop off in tweets this year. A good chunk of my time and energy is spent on the workload of an SID, especially a first-year SID learning the ropes as he goes. Another is that I'm still trying to figure out how to utilize my twitter feed in a way where I can still provide interesting insight to fans about our programs, while keeping in mind that my role has changed, and I'm not a reporter digging up information any longer.

[VULB#62]

Brandon, that is what I was alluding to by mentioning that you were quiet.  It is natural to do that given your new position.  BTW, I said before, but congratulations and thanks for working so hard for VU athletics.

[VU2014]

Probably sums up the Horizon League HQ's emotions right now...

https://twitter.com/LukePurcy/status/838536124268179456

[covufan]

Whoever had YSU, Milwaukee, UIC, NKU and WSU in their final five is either insane or a complete genius!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[justducky]

I have been saying for a month that there would be very little competitive advantage between the #1, 2 and 3 seeds. These 3 teams performed like identical triplets. 

[valpotx]

Does Brycepeters disappear from our board now?  My guess is that he was a GB fan rubbing it in.

[HailVU2014]

The Horizon League's plan all along must have been to produce a team that could win the 16-seed play in game because that plan is working out well so far. Great job! 

At least if an HL team wins the play in game, the HL will get some money so there's that too. Meanwhile, our conference standing is plummeting. But hey, who needs that when you can have $$$! 

[a3uge]

One of the benefits of the double bye was to protect RPIs. Even had Valpo won, their RPI would have dropped. The reason why 9 and 10 seeds never advanced very far was because they played a true road game before even getting to the conference tournament.

The winner of WSU/NKU isn't going to boost their RPI vs YSU (it may actually drop)... And then have ANOTHER similar game vs UIC or UWM.

The league really asked for this debacle.

[NativeCheesehead]

#firelecrone

[hailcrusaders]

Would the HL ever consider keeping the conference tournament to just the top six teams? Even a middling HL team could probably snag a 15-seed if they won the HLT. I don't much like the idea of excluding teams (even bad ones) but that might solve some of our problems.

I also heard a rumor on Twitter that the HL tossed around the idea of a double-elimination conference tournament but the NCAA wouldn't let them go through with it.

[valpopal]

Would the HL ever consider keeping the conference tournament to just the top six teams? Even a middling HL team could probably snag a 15-seed if they won the HLT. I don't much like the idea of excluding teams (even bad ones) but that might solve some of our problems.

I also a rumor on Twitter that the HL tossed around the idea of a double-elimination conference tournament but the NCAA wouldn't let them go through with it.

The double-elimination was being considered before the decision to move the tournament to Detroit. LeCrone once hinted at experimentation like that during a news conference at the ARC when the tournament was in Valpo.

[VU2014]

I wish the NCAA allowed the Horizon League to actually create the Tournament format it wanted...

A few years ago the HL was going to create a double elimination style tournament which means even if the tops seeds lost the first game, they'd still have a (difficult) second shot to win the tournament. It's a somewhat common Tourney format in sports leagues in different countries.

The NCAA shot it down because they thought it would give the Horizon League teams an advantage and mess up their "sacred" selection committee's process. Paul talked about it in the Bill Potter podcast

[VULB#62]

BREAKING NEWS FROM HL HQ: 

In 2018 they wiil experiment with 1st round games played on campus of the highest lower seed.  Those winners, along with Seeds 1-6 will trek to Detroit for the remaining rounds. 

All Men's Qtr finals (4 games) will be played on Friday, all Women's Qtr finals (4 games) on Saturday, Men's Semi Finals (2 games) on Sunday, Women's Semi (2 games) on Monday, Men's final on Tuesday, women's final Wednesday.  When that sends 200+ RPI teams to the dance......

In 2019 the HL will experiment with:
>> Men's 1st round games played on campus of the highest lower seed.  Those winners, along with Seeds 1-6 will trek to Detroit for the remaining rounds. 
>> Women's 1st round games played on campus of the highest lower seed.  Those winners, along with Seeds 1-6 will trek to Ft. Wayne for the remaining rounds.
>> All Men's Qtr finals (4 games) will be played on Friday,
>> All Women's Qtr finals (4 games) will be played on Friday
>> Men's Semi Finals (2 games) on Saturday
>> Women's Semi (2 games) on Saturday,
>> Men's final on Sunday
>> Women's final Sunday

When that sends 200+ RPI teams to the dance......

In 2020 the HL will experiment with:
>> All first round games (both Men and Women) played on campus of highest lower seeds.
>> Qtr finals (both Men and Women) played on the campus of the regular season champion - no byes
>> Semifinal and Finals played in Detroit (Both Men and Women)

When that happens, the HL ................................................................  will accuse the Russians of meddling in our conference format.

[VUOR63]

Here's a suggestion that will never get very much traction:

Keep the current format with the following edit:

If the pairing involves a team that went 2-0 against the other team, the team with the wins automatically advances with no game played:

Play Ins:
Milwaukee over Detroit, game played
Youngstown over Cleveland St, game played

First Round:
Valpo over Milwaukee, game not played
Oakland over YSU, game not played
Green Bay over UIC, game not played
NKU over WSU, game not played

Second Round:
Valpo v. Green Bay, game played
Oakland over NKU, game not played

Finals
Either Oakland over Valpo, game not played
Or Oakland v. Green Bay, game played

This way the season round robin means something so that if you are a stinky team, you don't get a chance to get hot in the tournament.  Imagine the tenacity of some of the games in the second round robin when teams are fighting to force a tournament game.

[M]

Get a title game that doesn't even get played?

[a3uge]

Here's a suggestion that will never get very much traction:

Keep the current format with the following edit:

If the pairing involves a team that went 2-0 against the other team, the team with the wins automatically advances with no game played:

Play Ins:
Milwaukee over Detroit, game played
Youngstown over Cleveland St, game played

First Round:
Valpo over Milwaukee, game not played
Oakland over YSU, game not played
Green Bay over UIC, game not played
NKU over WSU, game not played

Second Round:
Valpo v. Green Bay, game played
Oakland over NKU, game not played

Finals
Either Oakland over Valpo, game not played
Or Oakland v. Green Bay, game played

This way the season round robin means something so that if you are a stinky team, you don't get a chance to get hot in the tournament.  Imagine the tenacity of some of the games in the second round robin when teams are fighting to force a tournament game.

Or just go back to the old format.

[VUOR63]

I got to the end with no championship and said, "darn it, I did too much research on ESPN.com not to post this".  lol

[hailcrusaders]

I wish the NCAA allowed the Horizon League to actually create the Tournament format it wanted... A few years ago the HL was going to create a double elimination style tournament which means even if the tops seeds lost the first game, they'd still have a (difficult) second shot to win the tournament. It's a somewhat common Tourney format in sports leagues in different countries. The NCAA shot it down because they thought it would give the Horizon League teams an advantage and mess up their "sacred" selection committee's process. Paul talked about it in the Bill Potter podcast

It's stupid that the NCAA micromanages conference tournament formats. I believe conferences are allowed to award their auto-qualifier spots as they see fit, so the HL isn't even required to have a conference tournament to award the auto-bid (the Ivy didn't have one until this year). But since we do have a tournament, then the NCAA decides to step in and mandate how it can or can't work. If they're going to give individual conferences the freedom of awarding their own bids, then let them call the shots on their own tournaments.

[wh]

BREAKING NEWS FROM HL HQ: 

In 2018 they wiil experiment with 1st round games played on campus of the highest lower seed.  Those winners, along with Seeds 1-6 will trek to Detroit for the remaining rounds. 

All Men's Qtr finals (4 games) will be played on Friday, all Women's Qtr finals (4 games) on Saturday, Men's Semi Finals (2 games) on Sunday, Women's Semi (2 games) on Monday, Men's final on Tuesday, women's final Wednesday.  When that sends 200+ RPI teams to the dance......

In 2019 the HL will experiment with:
>> Men's 1st round games played on campus of the highest lower seed.  Those winners, along with Seeds 1-6 will trek to Detroit for the remaining rounds. 
>> Women's 1st round games played on campus of the highest lower seed.  Those winners, along with Seeds 1-6 will trek to Ft. Wayne for the remaining rounds.
>> All Men's Qtr finals (4 games) will be played on Friday,
>> All Women's Qtr finals (4 games) will be played on Friday
>> Men's Semi Finals (2 games) on Saturday
>> Women's Semi (2 games) on Saturday,
>> Men's final on Sunday
>> Women's final Sunday

When that sends 200+ RPI teams to the dance......

In 2020 the HL will experiment with:
>> All first round games (both Men and Women) played on campus of highest lower seeds.
>> Qtr finals (both Men and Women) played on the campus of the regular season champion - no byes
>> Semifinal and Finals played in Detroit (Both Men and Women)

When that happens, the HL ................................................................  will accuse the Russians of meddling in our conference format.

I noticed that 2021 got cut off of your post. In case anyone missed it:

In recognizing that the decision to move the tournament to Detroit in 2016 did not yield the results the conference was hoping for, new Horizon League Commissioner Homer Drew has announced that the Horizon League will experiment with a new tourney format:

All first-round matches will be played at the home court of the higher-seeded team involved. Hosting rights for the quarterfinals and semifinals will be awarded to the winner of the regular season championship. The championship game will be played at the home arena of the higher remaining seed. This format will reward the regular-season champion and runner-up with a double-bye into the semifinals. The regular-season champion will receive the added benefit of home-court advantage in the semifinals, plus a home-court final if it wins its semifinal.

Commissioner Drew said it is his belief that this new format will give the HL its greatest opportunity to successfully compete in the NCAA tournament. He added that this is only one of several changes the HL will be making in an attempt to improve its current standing among D-1 conferences. The HL finished 26th in conference RPI in 2020, according to Warren Nolan RPI.

[vu72]

We could only hope...

[IndyValpo]

Here's a thought. Perhaps we should stop pissing and moaning and actually win the tourney.

[VULB#62]

BREAKING NEWS FROM HL HQ: 

In 2018 they wiil experiment with 1st round games played on campus of the highest lower seed.  Those winners, along with Seeds 1-6 will trek to Detroit for the remaining rounds. 

All Men's Qtr finals (4 games) will be played on Friday, all Women's Qtr finals (4 games) on Saturday, Men's Semi Finals (2 games) on Sunday, Women's Semi (2 games) on Monday, Men's final on Tuesday, women's final Wednesday.  When that sends 200+ RPI teams to the dance......

In 2019 the HL will experiment with:
>> Men's 1st round games played on campus of the highest lower seed.  Those winners, along with Seeds 1-6 will trek to Detroit for the remaining rounds. 
>> Women's 1st round games played on campus of the highest lower seed.  Those winners, along with Seeds 1-6 will trek to Ft. Wayne for the remaining rounds.
>> All Men's Qtr finals (4 games) will be played on Friday,
>> All Women's Qtr finals (4 games) will be played on Friday
>> Men's Semi Finals (2 games) on Saturday
>> Women's Semi (2 games) on Saturday,
>> Men's final on Sunday
>> Women's final Sunday

When that sends 200+ RPI teams to the dance......

In 2020 the HL will experiment with:
>> All first round games (both Men and Women) played on campus of highest lower seeds.
>> Qtr finals (both Men and Women) played on the campus of the regular season champion - no byes
>> Semifinal and Finals played in Detroit (Both Men and Women)

When that happens, the HL ................................................................  will accuse the Russians of meddling in our conference format.

I noticed that 2021 got cut off of your post. In case anyone missed it:

In recognizing that the decision to move the tournament to Detroit in 2016 did not yield the results the conference was hoping for, new Horizon League Commissioner Homer Drew has announced that the Horizon League will experiment with a new tourney format:

All first-round matches will be played at the home court of the higher-seeded team involved. Hosting rights for the quarterfinals and semifinals will be awarded to the winner of the regular season championship. The championship game will be played at the home arena of the higher remaining seed. This format will reward the regular-season champion and runner-up with a double-bye into the semifinals. The regular-season champion will receive the added benefit of home-court advantage in the semifinals, plus a home-court final if it wins its semifinal.

Commissioner Drew said it is his belief that this new format will give the HL its greatest opportunity to successfully compete in the NCAA tournament. He added that this is only one of several changes the HL will be making in an attempt to improve its current standing among D-1 conferences. The HL finished 26th in conference RPI in 2020, according to Warren Nolan RPI.

Don'tcha love fooling around like this?  It's a bad situation (at least for us) but a bit of humor helps the medicine go down. 

On to 2017-18.  They say the biggest leap in improvement in college sports comes between the freshman and sophomore year (pros:Rookie to 2nd year).  Probably holds true for coaches as well.  Matt and the returning players will learn considerably from what they experienced and we've witnessed.   I'm hopeful/confident that the learning will be put to good use.

[yayphoenixyay]

Yeah this tourney has been one to forget. Simply put, our guys didn't come to play and I'm almost glad the stress of the season is over. I refuse to watch the remaining games only because I know if we had our game back, we could beat anyone, but, that's just how it goes. I guess I'm rooting for YSU only because I want Kaufman to become a folk hero, otherwise I really don't give a  . Either way, who ever the league would've sent this year would've gotten massacred in the first round so that helps me sleep a little better at night. I'm honestly pretty pumped for next year already, the league should be a blast to watch and highly competitive outside of Milwaukee.

[NativeCheesehead]

Phoenix, you're right on most points but in all honestly, a fully healthy, playing well Oakland team had a real shot in the NCAA with a decent match up. Whatever my personal feelings on a couple of their players, this year and next were/are a potential huge stepping stone to joining the mid major elite. Now that margin of error is slim to none. Yes, you have to play the games as they're presented. But it's the conference's job to put their teams in the best positions. They have failed here.