Valpo First HL Tournament Game Saturday

EddieCabot · March 05, 2017, 05:36:23 PM

Valpo was the best team in the Horizon and the only one with a history of winning games in the NCAA tournament. Making it more difficult for them to win the HL tournament is just stupid on behalf of LeCrone and the Horizon.

wh · March 05, 2017, 05:39:40 PM

Quote from: FWalum on March 05, 2017, 05:14:36 PM
QuoteMatt comment:
"It's tough when you come in and don't take any shots in the arena."

Oren follow-up question:
"Coach, I don't know if this is the time to bring this up, but the same kind of thing happened last year not getting into the arena and everything. What led to that? Was it a Valpo scheduling thing? A Horizon League scheduling thing? What was it?

Matt reply:
"I don't know. I just know it's difficult."

So, for 2 consecutive years we take the floor against teams that played the day before, and our players haven't so much bounced a ball or taken a shot until pregame warmups. And we lose both games. By the way, 40% of our minutes were played by freshmen in their first college tournament game in an arena they've never been to before.

Two years ago when Valpo hosted, a comprehensive practice schedule published by the league was posted on every door, showing when each team had exclusive use of the floor on what day. I cannot image that has changed. Before our tournament game against Maryland we had exclusive use of the arena.

IMO there's about a 95% chance this is another Valpo Athletic Department F-up. I know there are people who post anonymously on this board who work in the Athletic Department. If you don't have the gumption to defend your employer and refute this notion, my suspicion will become 100%.

If this is a "Valpo thing," someone's head needs to roll. But, of course it won't because that would be admitting guilt and accepting responsibility,
and if we learned anything from the Jubril situation, never ever do that.
Did anyone hear Todd's interview with Luke Gore after the game? Luke talked quite a bit about not getting to practice at the arena, but I missed the part why he said it was an issue. I did hear him say it was the right thing to do under the circumstances.

Well Todd, I know you visit the board regularly. Why didn't we get to practice at JLA?

VU2014 · March 05, 2017, 05:40:30 PM

VULB#62 · March 05, 2017, 05:55:20 PM

Case closed. Matt's comment was in retrospect to the program's own decision. Too bad.

30 minutes to acclimate to the arena, huh? I think it comes back to combining the two tournaments on one weekend. And I think that tactic was $$$ driven to try to increase attendance figures.

valpotx · March 05, 2017, 06:35:14 PM

Was the program decision at the AD level? If so, he needs to look at himself and why he made that call, given what happened last season with the same circumstance, and a better team. If it was Lottich's decision, than he has no one to blame but himself. Either way, they should have taken the time, regardless of having to sit around all Friday after the shoot-around. There is a huge difference in playing at the compact ARC, versus playing in a cavernous JLA without any fans in attendance.

In regards to the GB fan's assertion that the 'deserving teams' win the conference tournament, that is complete BS. In your view, you can go to 18-0, with the second place team at 12-6, and whoever wins the NCAA bid is the 'deserving' team, since they got hot over 3-4 games. I am not saying that we should award the NCAA bid to the regular season champion, but don't say that the 'deserving' teams are the ones who lock up that bid. The only reason we have these conference tournaments is because it is so engrained in American culture to have postseasons in every sport. Giving the 5-10 seeds a chance at an NCAA bid is what makes March such a 'magical' time, but in reality, they are not deserving. I could make an argument for only having the top 4 teams playing in a tournament to get the NCAA bid. That would allow the truly deserving teams to come away with something from the 18 game body of work, versus 3-4 games for some crappy team like Milwaukee to get lucky over 1 weekend.

FieldGoodie05 · March 05, 2017, 06:51:47 PM

Quote from: valpotx on March 05, 2017, 06:35:14 PM
Was the program decision at the AD level? If so, he needs to look at himself and why he made that call, given what happened last season with the same circumstance, and a better team. If it was Lottich's decision, than he has no one to blame but himself. Either way, they should have taken the time, regardless of having to sit around all Friday after the shoot-around. There is a huge difference in playing at the compact ARC, versus playing in a cavernous JLA without any fans in attendance.

In regards to the GB fan's assertion that the 'deserving teams' win the conference tournament, that is complete BS. In your view, you can go to 18-0, with the second place team at 12-6, and whoever wins the NCAA bid is the 'deserving' team, since they got hot over 3-4 games. I am not saying that we should award the NCAA bid to the regular season champion, but don't say that the 'deserving' teams are the ones who lock up that bid. The only reason we have these conference tournaments is because it is so engrained in American culture to have postseasons in every sport. Giving the 5-10 seeds a chance at an NCAA bid is what makes March such a 'magical' time, but in reality, they are not deserving. I could make an argument for only having the top 4 teams playing in a tournament to get the NCAA bid. That would allow the truly deserving teams to come away with something from the 18 game body of work, versus 3-4 games for some crappy team like Milwaukee to get lucky over 1 weekend.

Just a personal opinion, shoot around or not, we weren't making our mark on this tournament.

That being said, during NCAA tournament are we given ample shoot around time? Is this just a JLA thing?

valpolaw · March 05, 2017, 09:17:20 PM

I'm a bit surprised at all the complaining about the lack of shoot around time. I know I'll hear the team needed to get acclimated to the court, back drop, etc., but I'm not buying it one bit. I'm pretty sure the court was still the same length and the rims were still 10 feet with a hoop and ball that were still the same dimensions. I have to call it like I see it and that was a piss poor effort and we got it handed to us. The tourney was our's for the taking with Oakland losing and we blew it. It's a as simple as that. 12 points in the first half??? You gotta be kidding me. I'd be willing to bet me and 4 other random people on this board could go play a half and score more than 12 points.

VU2624 · March 05, 2017, 11:37:20 PM

Backdrops can affect shooting. It would have been wise for Valpo...all teams....to take what was available to them to be on the court prior to the game.

valpo84 · March 06, 2017, 07:03:09 AM

In the NCAA tourney, the teams get at least 1 hour if not 2 in the arena the day before the tourney starts at about the time of your games. Not at 9 am a day and a half before you play. teams run a full set of drills, etc. It is open to public and I've watched the workouts on a number of occasions. If you haven't played a lot of Basketball, then you won't understand the differences in shooting in a gym with walls close by, an arena or a dome. It's a clear difference. It's about depth perception and eye calculations on distance. Rims are different too. The JLA rims looked tight compared to the ARC. Tevonn's last 3s rattled around and out. No excuse for the game and our failure to speed the game up with pressure or push the Attack in the lane or all the missed lay ups or the tightness everyone played with. But there are differences in shooting backgrounds and feeling comfortable.

Valpo89 · March 06, 2017, 08:34:22 AM

Well, I'm going to be anti-Title IX here and say the reason for the lack of shoot-around time is because of the addition of the women's tournament. Too many games, not enough court time.
Did the Valpo men not want their kids to miss classes on the Thursday afternoon/Friday morning before Spring Break?

VULB#62 · March 06, 2017, 09:32:24 AM

That's not ant-TitleIX IMO, it's concern over poor overall planning and logistics. Even just removing the first round for both men and women and playing those at campus sites would ease the pressure somewhat. Insisting that 2 qtr-final games from both the men's side and the women's side be played on the same days, two days in a row is an obvious attendance grab tactic. The HL seems to want to come up with a magic formula that has some uniqueness to it. Why? Why not just stick with the MVC Arch Madness template?

The entire MVC men's tournament was completed in 4 consecutive days.

THURSDAY March 2 - 2 1st round games:
#8 Evansville v. #9 Indiana State - EU won
#7 Bradley v. $10 Drake - Bradley won

FRIDAY March 3 - 4 quarter final games
#1 Illinois St v. #8 E'ville - Illinois State won
#4 SIU v. #5 Loyola - SIU won
#2 Wichita State v #7 Bradley - WSU won
33 UNI v. #6 Missouri State - MSU won (only upset of the quarters)

SATURDAY March 4 - 2 Semi-finals
#1 ISU v. #4 SIU - ISU won
#2 WSU v. MSU - WSU won

SUNDAY March 5 1 championship game.
#1 ISU v. #2 WSU -- WSU won.

Is that so hard to do? A 1st round play-in with no "rest days" at all throughout the entire tournament. Each step in the tournament played on the same day. And only TWO upsets in 9 games - the last being the #2 seed beat #1 (and that is the way it is supposed to be, isn't it?). Both #1 and #2 were 17-1 going in with WSU having an overall record of 30-4, Illinois state was 28-5. Seeding was determined by a tie-breaker apparently despite WSU crushing pretty much all of their mid-major opponents and beating LSU and barely losing to Michigan State.

The women will have their own neutral site tournament in the Quad Cities Wireless Center this coming weekend. 4 consecutive days. Exact same format.

valpo64 · March 06, 2017, 10:25:30 AM

Are you kidding me?

We didn't take any shoot-around time!! Who is in charge? That decision is a disgrace to the players, coaches, the University, and it's fans. And this is how we spend(or do not spend) our Crusader Fund/Men's basketball program donation? Disgusting! Period!!!

EddieCabot · March 06, 2017, 10:53:57 AM

Quote from: Valpo89 on March 06, 2017, 08:34:22 AM
Well, I'm going to be anti-Title IX here and say the reason for the lack of shoot-around time is because of the addition of the women's tournament. Too many games, not enough court time.
Did the Valpo men not want their kids to miss classes on the Thursday afternoon/Friday morning before Spring Break?

I hope it was for academic reasons and not just to save a few dollars. Paul Oren did a great job of gathering information on this issue ... hope he keeps digging and finds out who made this decision and why?

Given that coach Lottich and coach Gore both brought it up as an excuse, I really doubt it was the coaches' decision.

bigmosmithfan1 · March 06, 2017, 11:36:13 AM

Valpo reportedly passing on their shootaround time at JLA is absolutely inexcusable. Hard to talk about commitment to your program or to your fans when you make penny-wise, pound-foolish decisions like that. It's a *win or go home* situation. Put your team in the best position to win. Period. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU SHOT MISERABLY IN THE SAME BUILDING LAST YEAR. Sheesh.

The fact that teams only get a brief 30-minute window 36 hours before the game to get acclimated to the tourney site is another issue altogether, and one that the HL needs to rectify, pronto. Shootarounds should always be within 24 hours of tipoff.

valpo64 · March 06, 2017, 12:15:32 PM

You mean that even our women's team took their shoot-around time? At least they won a game. Could it be that..........nevermind.

wh · March 06, 2017, 05:56:06 PM

Quote from: valpo64 on March 06, 2017, 10:25:30 AM
Are you kidding me? We didn't take any shoot-around time!! Who is in charge? That decision is a disgrace to the players, coaches, the University, and it's fans. And this is how we spend(or do not spend) our Crusader Fund/Men's basketball program donation? Disgusting! Period!!!

This is the icing on the cake about the disastrous finish to the season. 1 of only 2 teams out of 20 that chose not to use their allotted shoot around time, followed by a 12-point shooting half and a boot in the butt by the 10 seed. We are 6-4 in our last 10 games and 2-2 since Alec was sidelined. We're starting a freshman walk-on for heaven sakes, who is a better option than our 3 scholarship freshmen who apparently hit the freshman wall a month ago. We are a shadow of our former selves - mediocre at best.

I know that Matt wants to keep playing, but I think they should put a merciful end to this season here and now, save the money they would have spent, and use it next year to pay for another night's lodging so they can practice shooting at the JLA. They may not want this season to end, but from where I'm sitting, it can't end soon enough.

valpo64 · March 06, 2017, 06:53:41 PM

Amen! wh

Mc · March 06, 2017, 07:45:15 PM

I'd love to see us out of the Horizon and into a conference with better leadership, but Valpo's season just ended in an embarrassing whimper, and we were far from impressive. Does a higher-ranked conference really want a team that could not muster enough energy to score more than a decent high school team..in the conference tournament of all places?

justducky · March 06, 2017, 08:40:46 PM

Quote from: wh on March 06, 2017, 05:56:06 PMWe are a shadow of our former selves - mediocre at best.

I know that Matt wants to keep playing, but I think they should put a merciful end to this season here and now, save the money they would have spent, and use it next year to pay for another night's lodging so they can practice shooting at the JLA. They may not want this season to end, but from where I'm sitting, it can't end soon enough.

Now down to an 8 scholarship 1 walk on rotation, Shane would have to be all in for Matt to even consider a continuation of play. That didn't look to be the case in his performance against UWM. I also doubt if we could draw 1000 fans for a CIT game at the ARC. Too many letdowns after a fantastic start. Let the kids practice, study and regroup instead.

Playing any more games falls into the category of

.

EddieCabot · March 06, 2017, 08:52:08 PM

Quote from: Mc on March 06, 2017, 07:45:15 PM
I'd love to see us out of the Horizon and into a conference with better leadership, but Valpo's season just ended in an embarrassing whimper, and we were far from impressive. Does a higher-ranked conference really want a team that could not muster enough energy to score more than a decent high school team..in the conference tournament of all places?

It would be nice if Valpo could be in a conference where they have some say in what happens. From what I've read, Butler used to dictate policy in the Horizon, but now Valpo as the #1 team in the league has been forced to just accept whatever LeCrone wants. Definitely time to move on.

To answer your question, Valpo would definitely be in demand for a conference wanting a team with the national profile and NCAA tournament history that Valpo possesses. Very marketable right now ... the question is whether the Valpo administration is interested in making the required investments required or are just satisfied to stand pat.

vufan75 · March 06, 2017, 09:30:41 PM

Perhaps President Heckler should call or meet Butler's President Danko to get some background info on changing conferences and how that has worked for Butler. Similar endowments and reasonably close student counts, private schools. It can be done IF the President and BOD were committed to making it work. Even though MH is supportive of Athletics, sadly I don't see the will to make the investments probably needed to get there.

a3uge · March 06, 2017, 09:32:39 PM

Quote from: vufan75 on March 06, 2017, 09:30:41 PM
Perhaps President Heckler should call or meet Butler's President Danko to get some background info on changing conferences and how that has worked for Butler. Similar endowments and reasonably close student counts, private schools. It can be done IF the President and BOD were committed to making it work. Even though MH is supportive of Athletics, sadly I don't see the will to make the investments probably needed to get there.

Step 1: relocate to a large city.

NativeCheesehead · March 06, 2017, 10:47:15 PM

Only conference we could go to is MVC. Only way we get an invite is if WSU leaves. Not sure it would be worth it. In all honesty, there is a chance we fall into a middle of the pack HL team. Oakland will be loaded next year. NKU only getting better. UIC is young and talented. WSU is well coached. And if GB hold onto Darner, they will only continue to improve. And UWM is in the final! I've said several times and I truly believe this off-season will be the most important since the year after the sweet sixteen run. We have no margin for error to hang onto our role as top dog. So let's end this ridiculous conference talk.

vufan75 · March 06, 2017, 10:58:20 PM

Per Paul Oren's tweet, apparently now LeCrone has an idea to improve the conference.

"LeCrone repeated that league has brought in a "RPI expert" to help with data, scheduling, etc." #HLMBB

justducky · March 06, 2017, 11:26:21 PM

Quote from: vufan75 on March 06, 2017, 10:58:20 PM"LeCrone repeated that league has brought in a "RPI expert" to help with data, scheduling, etc." #HLMBB

This has to be a joke.

This would have been a great idea 15 years ago and we were still pushing for this 5 years back. BUT NOW

EVERYBODY has been gaming the RPI system for years and now LeCrone wants to outdo those experienced experts? Just how brain dead ignorant is this fossil? Is he genuinely a full decade plus behind the eight ball? And we pay this moron to represent us?

Valpo First HL Tournament Game Saturday

VU2624