2017-18 VU Schedule

[Dave_2010]

TheD1Docket Twitter page claims Valpo is heading to the Savannah Invitational on November 24-25, along with Kent State, UNCW, and Loyola (IL) (yeah...). Can anyone corroborate this? I haven't been able to find any other source referencing Valpo heading to Savannah. I hope it is true, though. Savannah may be my favorite city in the country, and is a short drive for me from Columbia, SC.

As he mentions, because Loyola (IL) is apparently in the event, Valpo's new conference affiliation could complicate the matter.

Yeah that may be a problem. Has there ever been a case of conference opponents playing each other in Non-Conference Neutral site tournaments? I can't remember that ever happening.

I wonder if Valpo is going to be the team that is forced to exit the Tournament because we're the brand new team to the conference. Hopefully it all works out and they just put us on different ends of the tournament.

Didn't that happen with either Utah or Colorado football when they joined the Pac12? I remember one of them playing a league member (Washington/Wazzu?) "OOC" their first season in the league. It wouldn't be unprecedented.

*Edit* Colorado played a non conference game at home vs Cal Sept 10, 2011...its first season in the Pac12.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Colorado_Buffaloes_football_team?wprov=sfsi1 **


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[Valpo13]

If my memory serves me right, I thought the rumor was Valpo was going to play in a tournament that featured an ACC school?  I'm happy Valpo is playing in any pre-conference tournament.  It's great exposure for the program and gives VU a chance to get some resume wins i.e. BYU/Alabama.  I really enjoyed making the trip out to Vegas and I'll be headed to Savannah too but I was hoping Valpo could get getting another neutral court game against a power-5 school.

[vusupporter]

There's a chance it's a 'classic' setup and not a true tournament, in which case it should be simple enough to not schedule Loyola and Valpo versus each other.

[wh]

2016 Tournament Bracket:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah_Invitational

Based on 2016, it looks like an 8-team, low/mid-major tournament.  Rounds 1 and 2 at campus sites. Rounds 3 and 4 in Savannah. 

Positives - easy way to pick-up 4 D-1 OOC opponents.
Negatives - possible RPI/SOS hit, depending on opponents.

[SanityLost17]

2016 Tournament Bracket:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah_Invitational

Based on 2016, it looks like an 8-team, low/mid-major tournament.  Rounds 1 and 2 at campus sites. Rounds 3 and 4 in Savannah. 

Positives - easy way to pick-up 4 D-1 OOC opponents.
Negatives - possible RPI/SOS hit, depending on opponents.

We are going to need a couple of easy opponents early in the year as we are figuring out who we are.  Wilmington/Kent State are usually strong.  Add in Purdue/Northwestern and that should offset a couple of weak home opponents to start the year.  In a rebuilding year you need to not over schedule. 

**this assumes the rest of our opponents are respectable and the 2 guaranteed home games are our only extremely low RPI opponents for the season.

[vu72]

That looks like it could have been a good tournament but I agree with 2014.  It isn't going down as proposed.

[wh]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball_season

Shows 22 Early Season Tournaments for 2017-18.  Savannah is not among them.

[a3uge]

TheD1Docket Twitter page claims Valpo is heading to the Savannah Invitational on November 24-25, along with Kent State, UNCW, and Loyola (IL) (yeah...). Can anyone corroborate this? I haven't been able to find any other source referencing Valpo heading to Savannah. I hope it is true, though. Savannah may be my favorite city in the country, and is a short drive for me from Columbia, SC.

As he mentions, because Loyola (IL) is apparently in the event, Valpo's new conference affiliation could complicate the matter.

Yeah that may be a problem. Has there ever been a case of conference opponents playing each other in Non-Conference Neutral site tournaments? I can't remember that ever happening.

I wonder if Valpo is going to be the team that is forced to exit the Tournament because we're the brand new team to the conference. Hopefully it all works out and they just put us on different ends of the tournament.

Yes. Butler played Xavier in a neutral site OOC tournament when they first moved to the A10. The game obviously didn't count in the standings, but they only played each other once in the regular season.

[valpo64]

Scheduling Oakland is that important?  Even though next year they may be loaded, prior to last year and after next year, the importance of us playing them is waaaaay over rated.   I could care less if we play them in the future.  I must say that it would be a BIG game for "King Kampe" and give him something else to mouth off about.  After watching the online presser with Lacrone, it sounds to me like LaC is bent on expanding the HL big time.  Let him go for it because they will only end up with a much watered-down product.  Let OU worry about that instead of drooling at the possibility of playing us in the future.

[VUGrad1314]

a3uge,

I don't think the Butler-Xavier situation is quite an apples to apples comparison. Xavier and Butler only played once because the A10 has so many teams they can't do a round robin. I'm not sure what they would do in this situation. I would hope they would just allow us to keep the tournament since the agreements were made before we joined. (I say this selfishly because I think that the chance to play UNCW and Kent State two programs that won 20+ games last year would be a very good thing for this young team but the fact that Loyola(Chicago) and Valpo are now conference foes again may indeed complicate matters. After all, we saw a nonconference agreement with Indiana State terminated since the two schools will now play each other in conference. I honestly don't think it will be  a problem and here's why: 1. Butler and Xavier have already done this before as you have said, and 2. the Phil Knight Tournament this year features many teams from the same conferences. I'm not sure how that tournament is going to be run since it's new, but I don't think having multiple teams from the same conference is an issue for tournaments. It just won't count in the conference standings obviously. I don't know this for sure but I am simply speculating based on some limited evidence of similar cases from the past and present.

[talksalot]

UNCW just lost two players following their coach to NC State.

[Grizz]

Hey 64 is the real reason you don't want to play us is that we've beat you 9 of the last 14 we've played, ( a sweep this year would have made it 11/16)  or that Lexus Williams will be our starting point guard next year.
Good luck in your new world. I'm setting the over under at 24 months on a long thread on here as to why Valpo needs a new league because the Valley sucks and its holding you down.  10 bucks.  Any takers

[4throwfan]

GRIZZ,

I get from your post that you think that the real reason for VU leaving is a fear of losing to OU.  Fear of losing to OU is not a fear of anyone on this board.  Many, including myself, have lobbied for support to play Oakland each year because it would be easy to schedule, and would likely help VU's RPI.  The main arguments against that position have been 1) OU is yesterday's news, and 2) Oakwood would not help VU's image in front of the committee because its own RPI is usually not good, therefore, it does not give VU a good win against a top school.  Leaving HL for MVC due to fear of ANY team in the HL simply isn't a thought.  I lump your comment into the category of "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned."

[vu72]

Hey 64 is the real reason you don't want to play us is that we've beat you 9 of the last 14 we've played, ( a sweep this year would have made it 11/16)  or that Lexus Williams will be our starting point guard next year.
Good luck in your new world. I'm setting the over under at 24 months on a long thread on here as to why Valpo needs a new league because the Valley sucks and its holding you down.  10 bucks.  Any takers

Interesting comment.  Lexus is a first class guy, no doubt.  Not sure he really fits on a team of "second chancers".  I also find it interesting that in your gloating about how good you are, you note that Lexus will be your starting point guard.  Grizz, Lexus left us because the hand writing was on the wall for him.  "Stay at Valpo and get very limited playing time".  In any event, good luck next year.

[IrishDawg]

Yes. Butler played Xavier in a neutral site OOC tournament when they first moved to the A10. The game obviously didn't count in the standings, but they only played each other once in the regular season.

Butler and Xavier played each other at Xavier as part of the 24 hour hoops marathon that season (game was set up before the conference change and the schools didn't want to miss out on a national broadcast on ESPN), but you are correct that it didn't count in the conference standings.  The lone conference matchup that year was played at Butler.

A better example of what you guys are talking about is when Butler played Georgetown as part of the Battle for Atlantis tourney in the Bahamas.  Since Butler accepted the invitation prior to coming to the Big East, they allowed both teams to take part in the tournament.  If Valpo has already accepted invitations to other OOC tournaments prior to moving to the MVC, if there happens to be another conference team in the tourney, no big deal.

[wh]

Hey 64 is the real reason you don't want to play us is that we've beat you 9 of the last 14 we've played, ( a sweep this year would have made it 11/16)  or that Lexus Williams will be our starting point guard next year.
Good luck in your new world. I'm setting the over under at 24 months on a long thread on here as to why Valpo needs a new league because the Valley sucks and its holding you down.  10 bucks.  Any takers

Let's talk apples to apples. If Valpo ever gets to the point where it has won the MVC 5 of the past 6 seasons, we might be thinking about doing just that.

I empathize with your "scared to play Oakland" point. We were on a 4-game winning streak when Butler left the HL for the A-10. They refused to play us, and we got on their fans the same way. Like it or not, the reality is Butler had nothing to gain by playing us. They also had nothing to prove, regardless of the 4-game losing streak to Valpo. They were invited to join the A-10; we weren't. End of story.

Oakland has done a good job of making incremental improvement, but you have a long way to go to get to Valpo's level of accomplishment over time. You have a co-championship under your belt. Now it's time to see some conference tournament wins, NCAA appearances, and repeat conference championships. When Butler left, Valpo took the mantle and ran with it. While it was frustrating that Butler refused to play us, they were also no longer in our way to get where we wanted to go. Oakland has the same opportunity now. Just don't expect Valpo to help you get there. Those days are over.

[bbtds]

2) Oakwood would not help VU's image in front of the committee because its own RPI is usually not good, therefore, it does not give VU a good win against a top school.

Maybe Oakland would. Certainly not Oak Hill Academy. Maybe Oakwood would help Oak Hill? I'm getting all Oakedout. Who knows where I'll land but it won't be Oakland County.

[valpotx]

9 out of 14, but you still have a ways to go to make it competitive all-time .  Also, you would not sweep us this next season. 

[bigmosmithfan1]

Talking smack about beating us short-handed for both games. Ok, dude.

[VUGrad1314]

UNCW just lost two players following their coach to NC State.

Very true; but while perhaps they won't be the  team they were last year, I still think they have a better chance to be a quality nonconference win come selection time than a major RPI drag. I think that tournament is a quality one especially for the young, rebuilding Crusaders. It provides enough of a challenge to be beneficial to them, without being so difficult that they have no hope of winning.Would love to hear more about this rumor about playing an ACC club. Maybe a trip to Atlanta to play the Yellow Jackets is in the offing as a connection to this Tournament? That'd be interesting: The last two NIT runners-up playing a game.


Speaking of the schedule, anyone have any idea when we might hear about the next game that's been finalized or when we might see a final nonconference schedule? I bet it'll still be a few weeks since the conference change probably took a lot of the focus away from scheduling. I just hope we don't play a bunch of crappy teams and non-D1s. Those days should be behind us. If VU wants to be a leading program in the Valley,as Commissioner Elgin stated that they made clear during the campus visit,  then they need to act and schedule like it from day one.


That means, even if there is no scheduling mandate from the conference, there's a personal scheduling mandate. You don't have to fill the schedule with P5 opponents either. Games against clubs like San Francisco, St. Mary's, Princeton, Vermont, VCU, Richmond (all names I have seen mentioned on here) would do wonders. We are still doing the Santa Clara return game right? I hope we do because that would be a great opportunity for the team to bond and jell together on a road trip over Thanksgiving or something. If we are seeking Power 5 opponents, I think Stanford and Cal would be good fits to provide a tough but winnable challenge for our team.


I would also see if we can start a series with any of these schools to get some Home and Homes going. I would love to see these teams at the ARC. Even Grand Canyon and New Mexico State would be nice additions to the schedule, with Home and Homes definitely possible.

One more thing to consider: If VU and Coach Lottich are able to use this Santa Clara trip profitably and hammer out negotiations for buy games and home and homes with California teams over the next several years, we may be able to tap into that rich recruiting area and bring some Cali kids to the Midwest. This is especially true now that VU has made the move to the MVC. Also, as a Stanford alum, I'm sure Coach Lottich has some leads out in that area and can make inroads there even without games, but playing the games out there or at home against these teams will be good to get our name into the minds of those prospective recruits. Just another reason why this is such an exciting time for Crusader basketball and just how much it can mean for the university going forward if they capitalize on it properly.

[wh]

I just hope we don't play a bunch of crappy teams and non-D1s. Those days should be behind us. If VU wants to be a leading program in the Valley,as Commissioner Elgin stated that they made clear during the campus visit,  then they need to act and schedule like it from day one.

Luke Gore addressed this issue in pgmado's most recent podcast. Personally, I found his comments somewhat unsettling. He spoke favorably about scheduling non D-1 opponents as dress rehearsals without consequences (my words, not his).  Further, while he accurately noted that playing a non D-1 is preferable to scheduling a D-1 with a bad RPI, he also commented that he has a close relationship with the coaching staff at Chicago State and would always consider scheduling them.

So, there you go. The 2 areas that we complained about the most a year ago - scheduling non D-1's and putting Chicago State on the schedule - were apparently part of Luke's scheduling strategy.

[VUGrad1314]

I just hope we don't play a bunch of crappy teams and non-D1s. Those days should be behind us. If VU wants to be a leading program in the Valley,as Commissioner Elgin stated that they made clear during the campus visit,  then they need to act and schedule like it from day one.

Luke Gore addressed this issue in pgmado's most recent podcast. Personally, I found his comments somewhat unsettling. He spoke favorably about scheduling non D-1 opponents as dress rehearsals without consequences (my words, not his).  Further, while he accurately noted that playing a non D-1 is preferable to scheduling a D-1 with a bad RPI, he noted that he has a close relationship with the coaching staff at Chicago State and would always consider scheduling them. So, there you go. The 2 areas that we complained about the most a year ago - scheduling non D-1's and putting Chicago State on the schedule - were apparently part of Luke's scheduling strategy.

Fortunately Luke doesn't make those decisions ML does. Let's just hope he doesn't buy into the whole "They will tell their grandkids about the time they played at Valpo" We need to be beyond that now. No more IU-Kokomo, No more PNW, No more Chicago State. Nobody's excited about those games not even the players. Nobody wants to see that and nobody wants to play that game.


The only thing that should matter is preparing adequately for the MVC slate. I don't think it's any secret that the way Northern Iowa schedules has a lot to do with their success in conference and in the NCAA Tournament. Take out the trash with respect to the schedule and please don't waste home games on games that won't even draw 2000 people. Those OOC home games are precious valuable commodities. You can grouse and complain about fan support all you want, but when you put D2 schools and Chicago State on the schedule instead of even semi-decent opponents, you forfeit your right to complain.


The city of Valparaiso shows you what happens when you put your best foot forward and schedule a big game. You get rewarded with 3000-4000+. This move to the MVC has built up a great deal of goodwill and I expect a substantial attendance increase at the ARC for the conference games, but if you want that for the whole season, you need to schedule well. Play whoever you want for exhibition matches. Schedule as many of them as you can. But leave the regular season for challenging, but winnable games, and the occasional buy game should the budget need a little extra.

[valpo64]

Is it true that, for rating purposes, we would be better off scheduling a non D-1 school that would not count in calculating our RPI vs. playing a very low rated D-1 school that hurts our RPI?  If so, maybe that is why Luke said what he did regarding scheduling.

[VUOR63]

If we need a non-DI team, I bet the Washington Generals will agree to come and play at the ARC. 

[wh]

Is it true that, for rating purposes, we would be better off scheduling a non D-1 school that would not count in calculating our RPI vs. playing a very low rated D-1 school that hurts our RPI?  If so, maybe that is why Luke said what he did regarding scheduling.

If you absolutely cannot get a mid major with a decent RPI to come to the ARC under any circumstances, and despite your very best efforts you still need home games, and the clock has run out, then yes, it would be better to play a D-2 or D-3 than schedule a home game against a team with a bad RPI.  Unfortunately, I see examples every year of schools who publish their final schedule long before they ever need to loaded with non D-1's and crap D-1 home game opponents.  Those schedules have lazy, mail-it-in, and easy-win coaching agendas written all over them.  I'm not saying that is true of Valpo.  What I am saying is that it makes it more difficult for those programs who do take scheduling seriously, because so many other programs that could be candidates for a decent home and home have already closed the door and moved on.  People are people.  Coaching staffs have their share of laggards and losers just like any other profession out there.