2017-18 VU Schedule

[justducky]

Welcome back, wh!  Hope you summer trip was good!   

Same for me.

I almost got to where I was missing him.   

[wh]

Welcome back, wh!  Hope you summer trip was good!   

Same for me.

I almost got to where I was missing him.   

Thanks, zville.  Great place to visit with attractive investment opportunities. Unfortunately, we had to return 2 weeks early after I got dysentery. Lost 15 pounds over the last 10 days we were there.  Finally starting to feel better, thanks to a regimen of potent antibiotics, probiotics, etc.

Oh, lest I forget - love you too, ducky! 

[FWalum]

Don't get me wrong. It's a nice team and well coached but that roster would finish dead last in the MVC. I've heard Mangas is pretty good player but he'd still only be a freshman. They don't have the same caliber of athletes does but its possible because anyone can beat anyone on the right day. Just last year our guys didn't take a D2 Trinity seriously and it was way too close for comfort. They weren't amped up or excited to play & it showed, then Valpo blew them up out-scored Trinity 53-30 in the second half coach lit a fire under their @$$ at half time.

If the players took the game seriously & came into the game with energy it wouldn't be close. IWU would need to play the game of their lives & Valpo would need to play the worst game of its life and come into the game with zero energy, imo. Coaching is coaching. There have been guys who have successfully made that jump in the past. Example: Linc Darner made the jump from Florida Southern College. Tonagel is more then capable at the D1 level with the X's & O's and development from what I've heard. He was also mentored by Homer.

Maybe he's happy at that level but apparently, he wasn't happy about not being considered for the Valpo job and suggest aspirations jumping to the D1 level one day. He'll get an opportunity someday to get a D1 Head Coaching job.

Not sure where you got the idea to equate being competitive in the MVC to "hanging with most decent D1 mid-majors", I never implied that to be the case. However, I believe that you drastically underestimate the players and talent on the upper echelon teams in the NAIA.  The 2007-2008 IWU team that lost to Valpo in such decisive fashion was one of the two worst teams that Greg has had at IWU in his 12 year tenure. That would most likely not happen today. IWU is a far superior program when compared to Trinity Christian.

Your statement that "coaching is coaching" is very naive. If it were so simple then why would any school pay millions of dollars to elite coaches, they would just go out and hire another "coach". Sure there are coaches like Darner that come from much lower level programs and prove themselves, but you make it sound so easy. Believe me, it isn't.

The Mike Hutton story was basically a rehash of the Tom Davis story http://www.news-sentinel.com/sports/columns/Valpo-AD-drops-the-ball-in-ignoring-Tonagel... or maybe it was the other way around.  A story that seemed to try and build some sort of tension between VU and Tonegal where I seriously doubt any exists.

[VU2014]

More of a lazy comment rather then naive when you take into account my whole post. All I was trying to say was that there are great coaches at all levels of basketball and I'm sure there are NAIA coaches that can prepare, game manage and coach up players just as well as if not better then some D1 Power 5 Conference coaches.

Just because a coach is paid millions more then the NAIA coach doesn't mean they are a better X's & O's/Game Prep/Game Manager. D1 athletics is riddled with overpaid coaches that are mediocre coaches but the one thing they can do really well is recruit which is the life blood college athletics.

I still stand by my statement that Valpo should crush IWU if we played them. Not saying we'd beat them by 50 but game should get away from them by the end of the game we should get the bench players some minutes. But as I said anyone can beat anyone on the right night.

[FWalum]

More of a lazy comment rather then naive when you take into account my whole post. All I was trying to say was that there are great coaches at all levels of basketball and I'm sure there are NAIA coaches that can prepare, game manage and coach up players just as well as if not better then some D1 Power 5 Conference coaches.

Just because a coach is paid millions more then the NAIA coach doesn't mean they are a better X's & O's/Game Prep/Game Manager. D1 athletics is riddled with overpaid coaches that are mediocre coaches but the one they can do really well is recruit which is the life blood college athletics.

Excellent post.  I am sorry if I misconstrued the intent of your original comment, and now that the intent has been clarified I can say that I completely agree with you that there are great coaches and bad coaches at all levels. There ARE NAIA coaches that are just as good or better "in game" coaches than the P5 guys and some of them are happy right at their level. Many times "coaching" is so much more than just the X's and O's and the higher the level the bigger the headaches. Others are looking to move up, but if they don't have the "network" connections or linger too long at one location the path to that D1 staff job or head position becomes difficult.

I still stand by my statement that Valpo should crush IWU if we played them. Not saying we'd beat them by 50 but game should get away from them by the end of the game we should get the bench players some minutes. But as I said anyone can beat anyone on the right night.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.  My problem is with the word "crush" which to me means a 30-40 point beat down.  IWU is an elite NAIA program whose starting 5 are D1 roster worthy, but they don't have the depth that VU should have.  They would be the best non-D1 team we have played in a long while... or maybe this is just my soft spot for the local NAIA little guy showing through.

[zvillehaze]

I still stand by my statement that Valpo should crush IWU if we played them. Not saying we'd beat them by 50 but game should get away from them by the end of the game we should get the bench players some minutes. But as I said anyone can beat anyone on the right night.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.  My problem is with the word "crush" which to me means a 30-40 point beat down.  IWU is an elite NAIA program whose starting 5 are D1 roster worthy, but they don't have the depth that VU should have.  They would be the best non-D1 team we have played in a long while... or maybe this is just my soft spot for the local NAIA little guy showing through.

I'd tend to agree with FWalum on this one.  As he points out, IWU has several DI quality players, including the two incoming freshmen who were Indiana All Stars.  Kyle Mangas of Warsaw had 47 in a regional game vs East Chicago Central.  He and Grant Smith were both voted as Top 15 players in the state by the Indiana Basketball Coaches Association last spring.  Forward Jacob Johnson visited Valpo, Butler and Ind State, and picked up a few DI offers before choosing IWU.  Coach Tonagel has done a tremendous job with that program.

[vu72]

I still stand by my statement that Valpo should crush IWU if we played them. Not saying we'd beat them by 50 but game should get away from them by the end of the game we should get the bench players some minutes. But as I said anyone can beat anyone on the right night.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.  My problem is with the word "crush" which to me means a 30-40 point beat down.  IWU is an elite NAIA program whose starting 5 are D1 roster worthy, but they don't have the depth that VU should have.  They would be the best non-D1 team we have played in a long while... or maybe this is just my soft spot for the local NAIA little guy showing through.

I'd tend to agree with FWalum on this one.  As he points out, IWU has several DI quality players, including the two incoming freshmen who were Indiana All Stars.  Kyle Mangas of Warsaw had 47 in a regional game vs East Chicago Central.  He and Grant Smith were both voted as Top 15 players in the state by the Indiana Basketball Coaches Association last spring.  Forward Jacob Johnson visited Valpo, Butler and Ind State, and picked up a few DI offers before choosing IWU.  Coach Tonagel has done a tremendous job with that program.

My guess is that some of the kids Greg is getting are going because of the conservative Christian mission of their University.  Here is their mission statement:

The primary value for Indiana Wesleyan University is Christlikeness. The challenge to follow Christ compels us to pursue a personal and professional lifestyle of Commitment, Leadership, Service, Stewardship, Innovation and Diversity.


To many, Valpo wouldn't qualify.  At the same time several of Valpo players are at Valpo because of the Christian coaches and Christian atmosphere.

[FWalum]

I'd tend to agree with FWalum on this one.  As he points out, IWU has several DI quality players, including the two incoming freshmen who were Indiana All Stars.  Kyle Mangas of Warsaw had 47 in a regional game vs East Chicago Central.  He and Grant Smith were both voted as Top 15 players in the state by the Indiana Basketball Coaches Association last spring.  Forward Jacob Johnson visited Valpo, Butler and Ind State, and picked up a few DI offers before choosing IWU.  Coach Tonagel has done a tremendous job with that program.

Since the MVC got brought into this; I had forgotten that last year Greg picked up Joel Okafor who was a 2015 3 star recruit out of Richmond High School, that had committed to Bradley, but left after his freshman year.

[VU2014]

This is going to be a real concern for Mid-Major Conferences...
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/900387639387357184

Mid-Majors are already being screwed by the Power 5's only playing 'buy games'/neutral site Tourneys against mid-majors & the committee consistently disrespecting Mid-Majors.

[VU2014]

Check out Texas Southern's Non-Conference schedule... 
https://twitter.com/GonzagaGuru/status/902183157000110080

[crusadermoe]

In the  words of Frank Barone,...."Holy Crap".    I would bet their athletics budget is netting a profit from these games.   At least I hope so. 

Meanwhile, any actual updates of 2017-2018 VU schedule?   Wonder when MVC game dates will be public?  Wondering which home games will fall on weekends.

[VULB#62]

It's not only the quality of the competition in those 13 OOC games, it's the grind.  Check out the dates.  1 and sometimes only 2 days between games with travel in between.  Tough way to earn a buck.

[VU2014]

In the  words of Frank Barone,...."Holy Crap".    I would bet their athletics budget is netting a profit from these games.   At least I hope so. 

Meanwhile, any actual updates of 2017-2018 VU schedule?   Wonder when MVC game dates will be public?  Wondering which home games will fall on weekends.

Samford plays at the ARC on Nov. 21st
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/890235139082657792

I've heard we are going to play 2-3 Non-D1s at home  . I'm not sure if I can share the other schools we're playing but look for another Trinity game...
Lets just say switching conferences didn't help with the Non-Conference Scheduling this year. People will not be happy with the Non-Conference home game schedule this year...

Also the Samford & Southeastern Louisiana (2 of the 3 best home games) games are during the break for the students...

[wh]

Lousy opponents and terrible venue access.  I just don't get it.

[VU2014]

Lousy opponents and terrible venue access.  I just don't get it.

To be fair this was a pretty chaotic offseason with the Conference switch & also losing the Indiana State game and having to implement the Utah State game from MW/MVC challenge. I'm actually pretty please with the away game schedule (2 Big10 opponents near VU), but I was hoping for a better extra opponent on the Santa Clara return game trip. My only complaint is the lack of a good H-&-H series with anyone decent opponent (the ball state series is solid but we didn't replace the Rhode Island series with anyone good). The schedule has to be better next season & I'm sure it will be.

I'm please with Samford & Southeastern Louisiana games at home (they aren't big names but both will be strong teams next season (NOT happy they are during Thanksgiving break for the students  but what can you do)).

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902265769651707904
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902265933724450816

Officially coming out soon.

[VU2014]

Definitely well worth the read.

https://twitter.com/enthusiadams/status/902285227028074496

https://m.facebook.com/enthusiadams/posts/1962595850681965

[crusadermoe]

Thanks for the re-cap of games.   I guess when you take an 11-day student break in November, you have just so many windows in your calendar.   

I thought the MVC cracks down pretty hard on non D-1 scheduling?    One would be ok. 

[vu84v2]

In the  words of Frank Barone,...."Holy Crap".    I would bet their athletics budget is netting a profit from these games.   At least I hope so. 

Meanwhile, any actual updates of 2017-2018 VU schedule?   Wonder when MVC game dates will be public?  Wondering which home games will fall on weekends.

Samford plays at the ARC on Nov. 21st
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/890235139082657792

I've heard we are going to play 2-3 Non-D1s at home  . I'm not sure if I can share the other schools we're playing but look for another Trinity game...
Lets just say switching conferences didn't help with the Non-Conference Scheduling this year. People will not be happy with the Non-Conference home game schedule this year...

Also the Samford & Southeastern Louisiana (2 of the 3 best home games) games are during the break for the students...

If the schedule is these games plus 2-3 non-D1s, this is without question the worst non-conference schedule in recent memory. Samford and Southeast Louisiana will not draw any interest, while non-D1 games (especially if more than one) do nothing to positively promote the program. I do not buy the excuse that changing conferences causes non-conference scheduling problems, unless it is with a team in the MVC that Valpo was already going to play. Furthermore, SIU-Edwardsville and UC-Riverside have no upside and accepting road games against low D1 teams only lessens the perceived value of the program.

If this is the schedule, I would expect an honest explanation from the athletic department/basketball program as to how this is not acceptable and will be remedied in the future. My guess, however, is that there will just be marketing promotion.

[elephtheria47]

I thought MVC only allowed one nonD1 game a year?

[vu72]

In the  words of Frank Barone,...."Holy Crap".    I would bet their athletics budget is netting a profit from these games.   At least I hope so. 

Meanwhile, any actual updates of 2017-2018 VU schedule?   Wonder when MVC game dates will be public?  Wondering which home games will fall on weekends.

Samford plays at the ARC on Nov. 21st
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/890235139082657792

I've heard we are going to play 2-3 Non-D1s at home  . I'm not sure if I can share the other schools we're playing but look for another Trinity game...
Lets just say switching conferences didn't help with the Non-Conference Scheduling this year. People will not be happy with the Non-Conference home game schedule this year...

Also the Samford & Southeastern Louisiana (2 of the 3 best home games) games are during the break for the students...

If the schedule is these games plus 2-3 non-D1s, this is without question the worst non-conference schedule in recent memory. Samford and Southeast Louisiana will not draw any interest, while non-D1 games (especially if more than one) do nothing to positively promote the program. I do not buy the excuse that changing conferences causes non-conference scheduling problems, unless it is with a team in the MVC that Valpo was already going to play. Furthermore, SIU-Edwardsville and UC-Riverside have no upside and accepting road games against low D1 teams only lessens the perceived value of the program.

If this is the schedule, I would expect an honest explanation from the athletic department/basketball program as to how this is not acceptable and will be remedied in the future. My guess, however, is that there will just be marketing promotion.

If the schedule is these games plus 2-3 non-D1s, this is without question the worst non-conference schedule in recent memory.

I think it has to do with the conference shift.  The women's non-conference schedule is equally bad.

http://www.valpoathletics.com/wbasketball/schedule/#.WaVvOMh97IW

[VU2014]

vu72, agreed.

But if there was ever a time to have this type of Non-Conference schedule it would be this upcoming season, imo. As fans I don't think we have much to complain about (in terms of schedule) because we get to join a better Conference with a much more appealing & entertaining Conference schedule.

Keep in mind the Coaching Staff likely had to scrap a series or two because of the Conference switch & it caused scheduling issues for other games. Also this probably isn't the best year for Valpo to schedule a tough non-conference schedule. We have to prepare for 8 new teams next season in conference (other conference team need to prepare for just 1 new team). Not to mention we just graduated one of the best & most important classes in Valpo basketball history (AP, Jubril, Lexus, & Shane) and we're also implementing 7(!) new guys into the game rotation to varying degrees next year (3 of which are freshman).

We all can also look forward to the future Vanderbilt Series that may start during 2018-2019 season.

[vu84v2]

I am sorry, but the shift from one conference to another does not seem like a valid reason for an awful non-conference schedule. Why? Because the only things that shifting conferences would affect in your schedule from mid-November to late December are (1) the requirement (a good one) to play in the MVC-MWC challenge, and (2) previous agreements to play MVC teams in a non-conference schedule that are no longer valid. The "we have to prepare for 8 new teams this season" is a convenient, but not valid argument for a poor non-conference schedule. This argues that the coaching staff cannot do the job of preparing for 16 (or whatever) new teams. Additionally, the argument of "we'll have a tougher and more interesting conference schedule in the MVC" is essentially arguing "we did this really well, so it is OK that we did something else poorly". Furthermore, the schedule for the women's team is not a valid comparison because, frankly, they are a low D1 team right now and thus would have difference scheduling. Overall, these are convenient excuses for a poor job scheduling - but not acceptable reasons.

Please note that, in the past, I have strongly praised Valpo's scheduling (last season was great and others have also been good). Nearly everything in this potential schedule is multiple steps down from last year.

Lastly, consider the message that a schedule like this sends to potential recruits. Message during last season: Valpo is a strong program that played Kentucky, Final Four team Oregon and beat nationally ranked Rhode Island, as well as BYU and Alabama. Even with a disappointing postseason, that is a good story. Message this season: "Valpo is a strong program that played Northwestern and Purdue, along with several teams (some good and some not-so-good) that you may or may not have heard of along with very poor D1 teams and non D1 teams. We play in one of the best mid-major conferences in the country and hope to schedule our non-conference games consistent with the standards of that conference in the future". The first message says "come play at Valpo and play against top competition", while the second message says "come play at Valpo and we may play against top competition in the future".

[justducky]

I am sorry, but the shift from one conference to another does not seem like a valid reason for an awful non-conference schedule.

A trash schedule is a trash schedule and this is potentially scary bad.

What groundwork does it lay for our 18-19 season?      Will Purdue or Northwestern be willing to play us again? So we have Edwardsville and Riverside as our known main home 2018 attractions?   

Looking forward we need use our past HL connections appropriately. We need to admit that turning our backs on Oakland, NKU, UIC and UWM so we can sign home and homes with 300 RPI unknowns and non D-1's, is not a winning strategy.

[VU2014]

I am sorry, but the shift from one conference to another does not seem like a valid reason for an awful non-conference schedule.

A trash schedule is a trash schedule and this is potentially scary bad.

What groundwork does it lay for our 18-19 season?      Will Purdue or Northwestern be willing to play us again? So we have Edwardsville and Riverside as our known main home 2018 attractions?   

Looking forward we need use our past HL connections appropriately. We need to admit that turning our backs on Oakland, NKU, UIC and UWM so we can sign home and homes with 300 RPI unknowns and non D-1's, is not a winning strategy.

A Couple Thoughts:
-Top 25 Teams: Purdue & Northwestern (they probably won't play us next year when we project to be stronger but that's what CBB. P5/BE dodge good mid-majors when they are strong. Thats not news to anyone here. It would be a miracle if either of them gave a return game in any series)

-Samford & Southeastern Louisiana are much better teams then people realize. Samford could be a Top 100-150 team next season and SEL will also surprise folks, because they have an electric little PG named Marlain Veal.

-Savannah Invitational we will play UNCW & Kent State. UNCW is a very good MM program but will probably be down next year. Kent State could be one of the better MAC teams

-Ball State is a solid In-State opponent

-California Trip: I'm not going to sugar coat it. It's disappointing. I wanted better then UC-Riverside, but we can only schedule who is available on that tight window for for the Santa Clara return game.

-SIUE was a fundraising/"business" decision for the STL area alumni & was planned WAY before joining the MVC (Arch Madness). Yes SIUE sucks and is disappointing to see us playing a team of that caliber on the road but I see the logic for the University and Athletics Department.

-Utah State is solid and is a different opponent. I'm looking forward to that game.

Yes the Non-Conference Home games suck next season (and 2 of the 3 best games are when students are off campus), but sometimes things just don't work out at the Mid-Major Level. Some may call the Conference switch a "convenient excuse" but it may just be a disappointing reality.

Looking forward we need use our past HL connections appropriately. We need to admit that turning our backs on Oakland, NKU, UIC and UWM so we can sign home and homes with 300 RPI unknowns and non D-1's, is not a winning strategy.

The Horizon League relationships might not be great right now... at the coaching level I'm sure they are more then fine but everyone has a boss. OU is going to be really good next year but after next season they won't be nearly as good. UIC should be better with all talent they've recruited. UWM does not project to be very good. NKU has a pretty good team & I could see a series coming together (Coach Rags use to coach at NKU) if the administrations can get along. I actually think NKU will be one of the MVC expansion candidates if the conf expands to 12.