NCAA College Basketball Talk

[oklahomamick]

Loyola gets consideration not because of the short success as of late but for being in Chicago, large endowment, good academics and improving facilities. 

Those are the same reasons they got the invite for mvc. 

[VU2014]

I don't think the A10 is that big of a threat to steal the Loyola. If the Big east came call, sure we would lose them. Haven't heard any chatter about that though. I haven't even heard any in the media propose LU to the A10.

I think conference consolidation is eventually inevitable down the road, but I actually think the MVC is in a decent spot in terms of being a quality mid-major conference for the near future.

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/michaelsobrien/status/1142085927227076613

[VU75]

I don't think the A10 is that big of a threat to steal the Loyola. If the Big east came call, sure we would lose them. Haven't heard any chatter about that though. I haven't even heard any in the media propose LU to the A10.

Actually it makes a lot of sense for the Big East to stay at 11 teams. It sets up a natural 20 game conference schedule that other P5 are jumping through hoops to achieve.

[VU2014]

I don't think the A10 is that big of a threat to steal the Loyola. If the Big east came call, sure we would lose them. Haven't heard any chatter about that though. I haven't even heard any in the media propose LU to the A10.

Actually it makes a lot of sense for the Big East to stay at 11 teams. It sets up a natural 20 game conference schedule that other P5 are jumping through hoops to achieve.

It also greatly reduces good mid-major programs opportunities to play P6 programs and get a statement win. Make no mistake this is stategic and not just a business move for more tv content.

[IrishDawg]

I don't think the A10 is that big of a threat to steal the Loyola. If the Big east came call, sure we would lose them. Haven't heard any chatter about that though. I haven't even heard any in the media propose LU to the A10.

I think conference consolidation is eventually inevitable down the road, but I actually think the MVC is in a decent spot in terms of being a quality mid-major conference for the near future.

If the AAC comes for VCU (possibility, but rumor has it the AAC is staying at 11 for now), then I could see the A10 coming for Loyola, which could be interesting to see if they would stay.

It also greatly reduces good mid-major programs opportunities to play P6 programs and get a statement win. Make no mistake this is stategic and not just a business move for more tv content.

It's more of a move to try and protect their own bids and expand the TV money, which is essentially what you said as well. League now has 20 league games, challenges with the Big Ten and Big 12, and 3-4 early season tourney games. Under the current scheduling limitations, it's going to be darn near impossible for a mid-major school to get a home game against any power program.

[VUGrad1314]

Chatter on MVC Fans is that the SEC and Big XII are planning realignment moves of their own. This could get ugly for the American. My guess is that the SEC is going for some combination of Texas\Oklahoma (maybe Oklahoma State) Cincinnati or West Virginia while the Big XII is eyeing Cincinnati Houston Memphis the Florida schools and possibly Temple

[IrishDawg]

Chatter on MVC Fans is that the SEC and Big XII are planning realignment moves of their own. This could get ugly for the American. My guess is that the SEC is going for some combination of Texas\Oklahoma (maybe Oklahoma State) Cincinnati or West Virginia while the Big XII is eyeing Cincinnati Houston Memphis the Florida schools and possibly Temple

The Missouri State AD giving his opinion on things doesn't make me think anything is imminent. Especially when the Big 12 already looked at all those schools 3 years ago and said thanks, but no thanks. The media rights deals for these leagues are coming up within the next 3-5 years, so maybe there will be some movement at that time.

Given that the AAC's deal is $7 million per school for both football and basketball and was just completed, it doesn't appear that there's a strong demand for any program in that league to go to a power conference, so while I'll never say never, I'd say it's unlikely that any major changes are coming to the American soon.

[VUGrad1314]

I do think it's in the best interest of the AAC to add at least one split school in a Navy\Wichita State type of situation. For example pairings like

BYU\VCU

Army\Dayton

Air Force\Davidson

With Rhode Island SLU or Loyola as additional possibilities. Makes a lot of sense and is good for the league's over all strength. In fact I think that is the order I would rank them in terms of most appealing to least:

Football:

BYU

Army

Air Force

Full Members (UAB ODU UMASS)

Basketball:

VCU

Dayton

Davidson

SLU

Loyola

Full Members (UAB ODU UMASS)

(SLU and Loyola can certainly be debated and flipped). SLU makes more geographic sense and has fairly recent history with some of the AAC members but Loyola has the bigger market and has been better recently. As an MVC fan, I would be rooting for the AAC to be super aggressive here. The more quality teams the A10 loses without SLU hearing their name called makes them more likely to give up on the high travel costs of the A10 and embrace the comparable (especially if the A10 loses one or two of its best members) but much friendlier travel situation of the MVC. Mix in Murray State and you have an excellent league and Missouri State doesn't feel quite as isolated because the two additions came in the western part of the footprint. It increases cohesion and tightness of the footprint.

[IrishDawg]

I do think it's in the best interest of the AAC to add at least one split school in a Navy\Wichita State type of situation. For example pairings like

BYU\VCU

Army\Dayton

Air Force\Davidson

With Rhode Island SLU or Loyola as additional possibilities. Makes a lot of sense and is good for the league's over all strength. In fact I think that is the order I would rank them in terms of most appealing to least:

Football:

BYU

Army

Air Force

Full Members (UAB ODU UMASS)

Basketball:

VCU

Dayton

Davidson

SLU

Loyola

Full Members (UAB ODU UMASS)

(SLU and Loyola can certainly be debated and flipped). SLU makes more geographic sense and has fairly recent history with some of the AAC members but Loyola has the bigger market and has been better recently. As an MVC fan, I would be rooting for the AAC to be super aggressive here. The more quality teams the A10 loses without SLU hearing their name called makes them more likely to give up on the high travel costs of the A10 and embrace the comparable (especially if the A10 loses one or two of its best members) but much friendlier travel situation of the MVC. Mix in Murray State and you have an excellent league and Missouri State doesn't feel quite as isolated because the two additions came in the western part of the footprint. It increases cohesion and tightness of the footprint.

BYU would be the ultimate home run, but I believe their exclusive media rights deal with ESPN already pays them as much if not more than the AAC's just for football.

Don't see Dayton as an add because of Cincinnati, and honestly other than adding Army for football, I don't see any realistic option that would add anything to their league in basketball that would bring in enough funds for the league to want to go past 11 teams and going to a 20 game round robin.  Maybe VCU, but I'd be surprised if that even happened.

For the Valley, the most realistic and best option is going to be Murray State and going to a 20 game league schedule as well, IMO.  I do think some urgency for this is warranted to at least make this move in the next couple of years, but only because of the scheduling challenges that are going to impact all mid-major leagues now that the Big 10, ACC, Big East and eventually SEC and PAC 12 go to 20 game league schedules.

[VUGrad1314]

That was one of the things I kept bringing up too. The B10 did it last year the ACC is doing it this year and BE will do it next year I am pretty sure the PAC 12 and SEC are looking at it too. We need to make a move to help ourselves a bit as well if not for bids simply for scheduling and keeping fan interest and attendance high.

[valpotx]

No f'ing way that UT is going to the SEC.  The PAC-12 tried to get the UT/OU combo a few years back, but would not let UT have the large share of TV revenue that they required.  The SEC would not give them such a deal, either, so it just won't happen.  UT is in a great position in owning the lion's share of decision-making in the Big 12. 

[IrishDawg]

That was one of the things I kept bringing up too. The B10 did it last year the ACC is doing it this year and BE will do it next year I am pretty sure the PAC 12 and SEC are looking at it too. We need to make a move to help ourselves a bit as well if not for bids simply for scheduling and keeping fan interest and attendance high.

Agreed. I do think it's smart for the MVC to wait as I don't see any other leagues lining up to take the Racers, but you also don't want to wait too long. Rather the league be proactive than reactive.

[VU2014]

How does the Mark Cuban quote go,
"Pigs get fat, but hogs get slaughtered"?

In reference to the UT conversation and the TV revenue. UT will be fine no matter what, they might hurt themselves the next round of Big 12 conversations come rolling around their fellow members get annoyed. The TV contract was the only thing holding that conference together a few years ago. I'm curious if it disbands eventually and we get a Power 4 ($) conferences down the road.

[VUGrad1314]

https://espn991.com/purdue-fort-wayne-leaving-the-summit-league-for-horizon-league/

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1158496677931704320

https://twitter.com/GoMastodons/status/1158455712734994434

Purdue Fort Wayne to the Horizon League. This raises some questions:

Is Augustana going to D1 by next year to offset this loss for the Summit League? (they only have five baseball members if the Mastadons leave)

Is this in pursuit of an 11\20 schedule for the Horizon League or is another school (such as Robert Morris as has long been rumored) joining the Mastadons?

Is this a reaction to a school leaving? (NKU? Wright State? Milwaukee? UIC? Oakland?) Is the MVC finally getting Murray State and its +1 from one of these teams? (This seems unlikely because we haven't heard anything to suggest this but the MVC is always super tight lipped about these things so maybe it's possible).

[VUGrad1314]

MVC Teams in the top 144 

86 UNI

100 Missouri State

114 Bradley

130 Loyola

Here are the writeups:

Loyola:

https://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/17595

Bradley:

https://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/17615

Missouri State:

https://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/17655

UNI:

https://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/17699

[VUGrad1314]

South Dakota's AD on Augustana possibly joining the Summit League. Sounds like the league presidents will meet in Sioux Falls in November to discuss the issue.

https://kwsn.com/news/articles/2019/aug/08/usds-herbster-summit-schools-not-bully-on-augie-joining-yet/926072/

[VUGrad1314]

http://usdcoyotesports.proboards.com/thread/2163/summit-league-expansion?page=37

Growing chatter about St Thomas (Minnesota) joining the Pioneer League for football and the Summit League for other sports. They are a D3 school so the process of getting to D1 may be complicated but they are a bit of a special case because they were just booted from their conference for being too successful. Augustana is considering a similar route. It'll be interesting to see what this might do for these schools in the short and long term. Would these schools stay in the Pioneer League long-term or would they do this just to get to D1 and give the Summit League time to negotiate the potential start of a football league. With Augustana and or St Thomas alongside the four Dakota schools and Western Illinois they would surely have enough to start their own league and might potentially recruit some Big Sky schools as well. It's mostly theoretical because it raises a lot of questions:

1. Would St Thomas and Augustana want or be able to handle the expense of football scholarships?

2. Would the Dakotas and WIU want to give up playing UNI and Illinois State?

3. That could be offset if schools like Montana and Montana State would be willing to join but I can't see why they would desire that. The travel probably isn't any better for them even if the quality of competition would be (This move would also send WIU running for another conference like the OVC or back to the MVFC but if they went back to the MVFC where would they park their olympic sports? Going to the Dakotas is one thing but Montana? Can't see how they'd be interested.

The simplest and easiest answer is that none of this shuffling probably happens vis a vis football. Schools going D1 and parking football in the Pioneer League would be doing so because they can't handle the scholarship costs. That's not something that is easily rectifiable. I think Summit League football as much as it is spoken about on message boards will not become a reality .

[valpotx]

St. Thomas was a stout D3 baseball team, when I was playing.  We had a guy transfer to that school, who would have done well at Valpo his SO to SR years, but wanted to be closer to home. 

Good to see that The Summit League continues to round into a stable geographic conference.  I wish no ill will towards our former long-time conference.

[IndyValpo]

http://usdcoyotesports.proboards.com/thread/2163/summit-league-expansion?page=37

Growing chatter about St Thomas (Minnesota) joining the Pioneer League for football and the Summit League for other sports. They are a D3 school so the process of getting to D1 may be complicated but they are a bit of a special case because they were just booted from their conference for being too successful. Augustana is considering a similar route. It'll be interesting to see what this might do for these schools in the short and long term. Would these schools stay in the Pioneer League long-term or would they do this just to get to D1 and give the Summit League time to negotiate the potential start of a football league. With Augustana and or St Thomas alongside the four Dakota schools and Western Illinois they would surely have enough to start their own league and might potentially recruit some Big Sky schools as well. It's mostly theoretical because it raises a lot of questions:

1. Would St Thomas and Augustana want or be able to handle the expense of football scholarships?

2. Would the Dakotas and WIU want to give up playing UNI and Illinois State?

3. That could be offset if schools like Montana and Montana State would be willing to join but I can't see why they would desire that. The travel probably isn't any better for them even if the quality of competition would be (This move would also send WIU running for another conference like the OVC or back to the MVFC but if they went back to the MVFC where would they park their olympic sports? Going to the Dakotas is one thing but Montana? Can't see how they'd be interested.

The simplest and easiest answer is that none of this shuffling probably happens vis a vis football. Schools going D1 and parking football in the Pioneer League would be doing so because they can't handle the scholarship costs. That's not something that is easily rectifiable. I think Summit League football as much as it is spoken about on message boards will not become a reality .

Augie plays D2 football so they would have decide whether to add scholarships  or go to the PFL model.
I would love to add them to the PFL.

In general it doesn't hurt to have additional D-1 in the Midwest.

[vu72]

Having lives in Minnesota for many years, I can attest to the success of the St. Thomas football program.  They have many similarities to a school like Valpo as to size, academic emphasis etc.  They would be a very tough new member of the Pioneer. Being D3 is in many ways similar to D1 non-scholarship.  Having said that, why not?  The Pioneer League could change its slogan to "we play in all corners of the country"  From California to New York and from Minnesota to Florida!

[VUGrad1314]

Tension growing in the Summit League? What would\could it mean for the non-Dakota members?

https://letsgodu.com/2019/08/13/cozy-summit-league-relationships-cast-dark-shadow-over-augustana/

[VULB#62]

Augie is a private school. It  attracts from well outside the USD/SDSU demo.  Logic tells me that in the end that is a good thing for the Summit. Plus we are talking about a 2000 enrollment vs. 5 figures for the state schools.

[VUGrad1314]

Augustana expected to go D1 (likely to the SL) in 2021

https://bismarcktribune.com/sports/local/nsic-commissioner-lind-confident-of-league-s-future-despite-augie/article_757207cd-aa61-51aa-a794-7d595c7d0a04.html

[VULB#62]

St Thomas of St Paul, MN,  (kicked out of their D-III conference for being too good) might replace Auggie In that D-II conference. Some posters on the PFL fan board suggested that the Tommies would be a great PFL addition (maintaining the non-scholarship FB program) but that would be really complicated. There is a better option if Auggie goes to the Summit and changes to non-scholarship FB.