NCAA College Basketball Talk

[VUGrad1314]

Wake Forest hires East Tennessee State head coach Steve Forbes as its next coach. This is a terrific hire but a sad day and a huge blow to one of the nation's best mid major programs over the past few years. Hopefully the next coach can keep things going for the Buccaneers.

[VUGrad1314]

Something I've always wondered: why don't more major cities follow Philadelphia's example with the Big 5 and play against each other? For example why aren't all of UIC Loyola Northwestern DePaul and Chicago State playing each other annually in home and homes that would get the city talking help out each university and generate media coverage? They could broadcast the games on NBC Sports Chicago for local media coverage as well. From an MVC standpoint, two shots each (minimum) at DePaul and Northwestern would be very attractive and would make me personally very receptive to the idea of adding UIC to the conference when you look at other factors like their outstanding basketball program as well as being good for the academic profile of the conference.

[valpo95]

...From an MVC standpoint, two shots each (minimum) at DePaul and Northwestern would be very attractive and would make me personally very receptive to the idea of adding UIC to the conference when you look at other factors ...

I think you have answered your own question. DePaul and Northwestern have no interest in regularly playing competition they perceive as beneath them. In the case of the Big 5, these are all programs with storied basketball histories (clearly some with more recent success). It is noteworthy that Drexel is not included in the Big 5.  DePaul and Northwestern do not want to be perceived as peers of Chicago State or UIC, or try to compete with them for recruits.

[IrishDawg]

There's also zero excitement or buzz around the city of Chicago for college basketball.  Last year DePaul was 11-1 going into the Northwestern game and they still only put 6300 fans in the stands for their game.

I think they'd be better off replicating the Crossroads Classic with Illinois, Northwestern, DePaul and Loyola and doing a one day event, but given that DePaul and Northwestern play each other on a yearly basis where the home team takes home 100% of the revenue vs. 25% of the net amount if they were to do it at the United Center, I don't see there being a big appetite for it.

[VUGrad1314]

Augustana to receive virtual tour and Summit League membership vote in May.

https://letsgodu.com/2020/05/04/augustana-to-receive-a-virtual-tour-and-summit-membership-vote-this-month/

Sounds like Augustana will be joining the Summit League after all. They need a baseball school and although St Thomas already has the votes and the support it's possible their special vote could be delayed by the Pandemic also this article fails to consider the notion that a school like Western Illinois might be considering a move to benefit their bottom line and overall competitiveness (such as to the OVC) which would necessitate the SL adding both St Thomas AND Augustana in order to maintain it's baseball auto bid. If both St Thomas and Augustana join the SL with no defections it would mean that they are at that spooky dreaded 11 number which again further lessens non conference opportunities. Though it might actually help the MVC if leagues like the SL went to 20 games as it would open up more opportunities for MVC schools to get bought and then surprise a P5 on the road.

[IndyValpo]

Augustana to receive virtual tour and Summit League membership vote in May.

https://letsgodu.com/2020/05/04/augustana-to-receive-a-virtual-tour-and-summit-membership-vote-this-month/

Sounds like Augustana will be joining the Summit League after all. They need a baseball school and although St Thomas already has the votes and the support it's possible their special vote could be delayed by the Pandemic also this article fails to consider the notion that a school like Western Illinois might be considering a move to benefit their bottom line and overall competitiveness (such as to the OVC) which would necessitate the SL adding both St Thomas AND Augustana in order to maintain it's baseball auto bid. If both St Thomas and Augustana join the SL with no defections it would mean that they are at that spooky dreaded 11 number which again further lessens non conference opportunities. Though it might actually help the MVC if leagues like the SL went to 20 games as it would open up more opportunities for MVC schools to get bought and then surprise a P5 on the road.

Interesting that Denver would criticize Augustana for not having anything in common with most Summit league schools. Pot meet kettle.

I want them because it will potentially add another PFL football school. Also adds another private school should realignments change things in the future.

[VUGrad1314]

I very much doubt we will see Augustana in the MVC anytime soon. I like our current conference as it is. I like the Public\Private hybrid and think everyone is well served by this conference. I just wish we could do more to add good programs to strengthen it. I do like the idea of more "regional" PFL competition to help cut down on travel a bit for us most years. (St Thomas if they are able to join would also help in this regard as well.) As for the article I think this particular Denver fan's objections to Augustana in the SL are mostly twofold:

1. It makes the conference even more Dakota-centric and

2. The main boosters driving Augustana's potential move to D1 appear to have an extremely cozy relationship with the conference commissioner.

I can completely understand why these things would give him or any other SL members pause. Ultimately, I think Augustana will be accepted into the SL for several reasons chief among them being that it would stabilize Summit League baseball completely regardless of what happens. Like I mentioned earlier I don't think Fort Wayne is the only team that will exit soon. I really believe that Western Illinois is looking elsewhere as if anybody has become a poor fit for the conference it's them. The OVC would probably take them (if for no other reason than for their football and as a logical geographic replacement for Murray State should they change conferences) and that would be a much better fit for the Leathernecks.

[VALPO LI]

Augustana to receive virtual tour and Summit League membership vote in May.

https://letsgodu.com/2020/05/04/augustana-to-receive-a-virtual-tour-and-summit-membership-vote-this-month/

Sounds like Augustana will be joining the Summit League after all. They need a baseball school and although St Thomas already has the votes and the support it's possible their special vote could be delayed by the Pandemic also this article fails to consider the notion that a school like Western Illinois might be considering a move to benefit their bottom line and overall competitiveness (such as to the OVC) which would necessitate the SL adding both St Thomas AND Augustana in order to maintain it's baseball auto bid. If both St Thomas and Augustana join the SL with no defections it would mean that they are at that spooky dreaded 11 number which again further lessens non conference opportunities. Though it might actually help the MVC if leagues like the SL went to 20 games as it would open up more opportunities for MVC schools to get bought and then surprise a P5 on the road.

Interesting that Denver would criticize Augustana for not having anything in common with most Summit league schools. Pot meet kettle.

I want them because it will potentially add another PFL football school. Also adds another private school should realignments change things in the future.

Another private "Lutheran" College/University to participate in NCAA Division 1 athletics is always welcoming to me!  I believe that is 3 now.

[IndyValpo]

I very much doubt we will see Augustana in the MVC anytime soon. I like our current conference as it is. I like the Public\Private hybrid and think everyone is well served by this conference. I just wish we could do more to add good programs to strengthen it. I do like the idea of more "regional" PFL competition to help cut down on travel a bit for us most years. (St Thomas if they are able to join would also help in this regard as well.) As for the article I think this particular Denver fan's objections to Augustana in the SL are mostly twofold:

1. It makes the conference even more Dakota-centric and

2. The main boosters driving Augustana's potential move to D1 appear to have an extremely cozy relationship with the conference commissioner.

I can completely understand why these things would give him or any other SL members pause. Ultimately, I think Augustana will be accepted into the SL for several reasons chief among them being that it would stabilize Summit League baseball completely regardless of what happens. Like I mentioned earlier I don't think Fort Wayne is the only team that will exit soon. I really believe that Western Illinois is looking elsewhere as if anybody has become a poor fit for the conference it's them. The OVC would probably take them (if for no other reason than for their football and as a logical geographic replacement for Murray State should they change conferences) and that would be a much better fit for the Leathernecks.

I meant I want them in the SL. Hopefully they join the PFL. Same thought for St Thomas.

The problem beyond declining enrollment for WIU is they only fit geographically in the MVC and they have 0 chance of that.

[VUGrad1314]

I still don't understand why everyone thinks even the OVC is such a bad fit for WIU. They'd be in the same conference with EIU SEMO and SIUE. Even some of the farther trips in that conference have to be a lot better than what they're dealing with right now in the SL.

[IndyValpo]

I still don't understand why everyone thinks even the OVC is such a bad fit for WIU. They'd be in the same conference with EIU SEMO and SIUE. Even some of the farther trips in that conference have to be a lot better than what they're dealing with right now in the SL.

It isn't bad, I just don't think the OVC would be interested. If an opening occurs they have other options before Western.

[VUGrad1314]

I still don't understand why everyone thinks even the OVC is such a bad fit for WIU. They'd be in the same conference with EIU SEMO and SIUE. Even some of the farther trips in that conference have to be a lot better than what they're dealing with right now in the SL.

It isn't bad, I just don't think the OVC would be interested. If an opening occurs they have other options before Western.

They do? Like who?


Kennesaw State? Similar to WIU Good football bad basketball Better market though but stretches their footprint


North Alabama? I guess... Same deal though. Bad basketball Might be okay at football one day. At least they're an in state rival for Jacksonville State.


Bellarmine? No football.


Southern Indiana? No football. No known desire for D1 athletics.


Lipscomb? No football. Belmont probably wouldn't like them being in anyway (assuming they stay).


A D2 call-up? Maybe but no names jump immediately to my mind.

[VUGrad1314]

Bad news for mids

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1258049913738444800


Also I'm so glad that P5 programs are scheduling up. Talk to me again about what a grind their seasons are and then look at how they spend the first half of their season:

https://twitter.com/TheD1Docket/status/1257723566684061696

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1257722634902687750

Lord have mercy. Those are Murderer's row schedules. By all means when they're playing that level of competition in the non conference we should absolutely be admitting their .500 or below conference record having selves into the tournament come selection time if that's how they perform.

[IndyValpo]

I still don't understand why everyone thinks even the OVC is such a bad fit for WIU. They'd be in the same conference with EIU SEMO and SIUE. Even some of the farther trips in that conference have to be a lot better than what they're dealing with right now in the SL.

It isn't bad, I just don't think the OVC would be interested. If an opening occurs they have other options before Western.

They do? Like who?

Kennesaw State? Similar to WIU Good football bad basketball Better market though but stretches their footprint

North Alabama? I guess... Same deal though. Bad basketball Might be okay at football one day. At least they're an in state rival for Jacksonville State.

Bellarmine? No football.

Southern Indiana? No football. No known desire for D1 athletics.

Lipscomb? No football. Belmont probably wouldn't like them being in anyway (assuming they stay).

A D2 call-up? Maybe but no names jump immediately to my mind.

If bad basketball is the key have you seen WIU. In the last 21 years they 2 winning seasons. So that won't help.

If they look for football I would put N Ala, UTC, and ETSU all ahead, Kennesaw is a push. Above all of those they might go non football with NKU.

[VUGrad1314]

I didn't mention bad basketball as any kind of selling point for WIU. I know they're bad. But what I'm saying is that these programs are as bad or worse at basketball.

No chance UTC or ETSU give up the SOCON for the OVC. That league is better in both football and basketball as well as academically.

Why would NKU give up the Horizon for the OVC especially when the MVC is a possibility for them and remember that they would be REPLACING Murray State in this scenario if they went to the OVC they wouldn't be able to be in the league with the Racers. Considering that the OVC is worse than the HL WITH Murray State and Belmont it seems like quite a stretch to think that NKU would have any interest whatsoever in the OVC no matter how badly the HL screwed them over with their tournament site selection process.

N Alabama I agree could be a better all-around option because we don't know whether they'll be bad long term. They have no longstanding track record one way or the other.

Kennesaw State is about as bad but at least offers a better market.

I'd say it's neck and neck and neck between UNA Kennesaw and WIU. If they're looking for market they'll go Kennesaw. If they're looking to take a chance on a relative unknown they'll go UNA (though I have heard that UNA preferred the OVC to begin with when they were going D1 and the OVC somehow screwed up and alienated them so I don't know. But if geography matters (since they're losing Murray State in this scenario in the western part of their conference WIU is the most logical choice.) Perhaps they'd consider adding all three and going all in on football. And if Belmont leaves as a result they can grab Lipscomb as a ready replacement (like Belmont but not as good) and become once and for all a football conference as football would be greatly improved while basketball takes a major hit.

[VUGrad1314]

Something or nothing?

https://mobile.twitter.com/GoUTRGV/status/1258057183528394752

Could be a rebranding like a new logo or a new nickname or new uniforms, could be a new coach for a sport, could be adding a sport, could be a major facility upgrade, could be a move to the Southland. If it's a move to the Southland, you have to think that other WAC schools are going to be trying once again to find more stable homes.

[VALPO LI]

Is it as big as FAMU's "major announcement"?

[VUGrad1314]

I thought that myself to be honest... Still I shared it because it could be a conversation piece. We'll find out early next week but you're right to have your expectations tempered significantly.

[VUGrad1314]

This is interesting... Not that anything will happen but it's certainly interesting.

https://www.deseret.com/sports/2020/4/20/21227597/byu-football-independence-power-five-mountain-west-conference-coronavirus-pandemic-ncaa-football

[VUGrad1314]

More sad news for mids. Pittsburgh no longer playing Duquesne.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29176081/city-game-pitt-duquesne-return-2020

[VUGrad1314]

Very interesting writeup on NMSU. I still believe that a move to the Mountain West would be a great move for both. New Mexico State would benefit from having its football program in a stronger stable conference while the Mountain West would benefit from adding another strong basketball program which would help them as they chase the likes of Gonzaga. (I firmly believe that Gonzaga will join the MWC one day alongside St Mary's and perhaps BYU to create a power basketball league that the West could really use.

http://forgotten5.com/2020/05/11/the-future-of-the-new-mexico-state-aggies-and-the-western-athletic-conference-part-1/

[VUGrad1314]

What in the world? This strikes me as short-sighted and bad management.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1262116548782837760

[VUGrad1314]

Really makes you wonder... The whole staff is gone too... Why now? So late in the season? With so many years left on his deal? So late in off-season recruiting? (I think we're in the dead period now) so if anyone transfers they can't immediately go find replacement.)

[VUGrad1314]

Speculation but would be a shocker if true and a huge blow to the HL.

https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/1262142766152368134

[vu84v2]

UW-Green Bay had $1.9M in expenses for men's basketball and another $1.3M for women's basketball in the 2018-2019 season, so their expenses combined for 2019-2020 were probably about $3.5M. They lost NCAA tournament money and some other revenues for the 2019-2020 season and any revenues for 2020-2021 are questionable. I have no idea if it really is the reason, but a lot of universities will be facing financial realities and will consider suspending athletics or finding other ways to seriously lower costs.

By the way, don't be surprised that if the reasons are financial at UWGB that UW-Milwaukee might follow suit (though UWM's overall situation is a bit better than UWGB, due to much lower reliance on housing students and more students already taking classes online).