NCAA College Basketball Talk

[vu84v2]

I do not think what happens with the American conference has any bearing on UConn joining the Big East. The Big East is comprised of 10 private schools (nine of which are Catholic), all of which are non-football. They are not going to add a public school unless there is a real crisis - which seems unlikely unless a current member goes to D1 football and moves to a Power 5 conference.

[VULB#62]

If the Big East went to 11 teams for a 20 game conference schedule, who would #11 be?   I know St. Louis has aspirations.  Then in the Philly area there is St. Joe's.   Any other aspirants? 

BBBBBut., let me get this straight:  Private -- CHECK.  Non-football -- CHECK.  History of winning and NCAA appearances -- CHECK.  Hey, how about Valpo?  No, wait.  I have to let the meds wear off before I deal with this.  Sorry. 

[vu84v2]

Possible Big East additions:
-St. Louis: SLU would jump at the chance and probably feels that they deserve it, but the Big East is not going to take a mid to lower tier A10 school unless it had to fill a gap and had no choice.
-Dayton: A great fit on many fronts, but Xavier will fight hard against having another team so close.
-St. Joseph's: See comments on SLU, though SJU is not as arrogant, See comments on Dayton, but replace Xavier with Villanova.
-Gonzaga: Would happen in a heartbeat if everyone in the conference was not two or three timezones away (Providence to Spokane?).
-BYU: Can't see that working out for essentially the same reason BYU can't get into the Big 12 (Sundays), plus it is almost as far removed as Gonzaga.

Bottom line: Big East will not add teams unless someone leaves, which is unlikely because any conference equal or higher has football (remember, the Catholic 7 left the old Big East to get away from D1A football's excessive influence). Any addition to go beyond 10 teams would require the school to be private, in a major metro, in turf not occupied by a current Big East member, financially strong, and a solid recent basketball history. No teams fit that bill.

[VULB#62]

When I looked at your criteria at the end "major market" hit me anf I thought of Loyola. But then i thought about DePaul fighting that. And unless NW Indiana becomes a self sustaining metropolis, ain't no way a BE team is coming from Chicagoland.

[VUGrad1314]

Panther U goes in HARD on the HL. Well worth a listen.

https://sportshax.com/podcast/hr/horizone-roundtable-51-constant-revolution/?utm_campaign=sh-auto-&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter

[may know]

Personally, I found PantherU's 14 paragraph ramblings exhausting, but I'll listen to it. Translates better on audio than walls of text.

[justducky]

First time I've listened to Jimmy since leaving the Horizon. He absolutely savaged LeCrone and I enjoyed every second.

Panther U goes in HARD on the HL. Well worth a listen.

https://sportshax.com/podcast/hr/horizone-roundtable-51-constant-revolution/?utm_campaign=sh-auto-&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter

Skip the first 12 or so minutes and you'll get into the good stuff. 

[bigmosmithfan1]

That was a really great podcast. PantherU pretty much nailed the history of the HL and LeCrone's failures, and pretty accurately distilled the NKU AD's letter detailing their frustrations about the bait-and-switch of moving the tourney to IUPUI as being the official marker of NKU starting their search for a new conference home.

[VUGrad1314]

Destination MVC?

[VALPO LI]

Destination MVC?

If Murray St. jumps to the MVC I could see NKU replacing them in the OVC.

[VUGrad1314]

Destination MVC?

If Murray St. jumps to the MVC I could see NKU replacing them in the OVC.

Better for them to be #12 in the MVC I should think.

[may know]

OVC already declined NKU because they were afraid NKU had too much of a competitive advantage. That's why NKU ended up in ASun originally. Lots of bad blood there.

MVC should double dip with the 2 Kentucky schools.

[FieldGoodie05]

OVC already declined NKU because they were afraid NKU had too much of a competitive advantage. That's why NKU ended up in ASun originally. Lots of bad blood there.

MVC should double dip with the 2 Kentucky schools.

I'd rather not make it more difficult to win our conference and lessen our revenue shares as a %.

BUT if it has to happen, sign me up for Murray State and NKU.  I've seen enough of both to say they have an upward trajectory.  Again, not sure anyone is bolting from MVC or there is a need to water down revenue % by going to 12 teams.

Autobids are a fools errand in terms of expansion at the mid-major level.  The well-funded (P6) make the rules guys.....everywhere that money is involved.  It's not changing because the perennially 8-12th ranked MVC adds 2-teams.

We will have 2/10 years where we are close to an at-large bid and we will have years like the present....where a 15-seed is in play.

[justducky]

I'd rather not make it more difficult to win our conference and lessen our revenue shares as a %.

BUT if it has to happen, sign me up for Murray State and NKU. 

If the MVC does want to expand then this is the time to strike. As for mid major at-large candidates Buffalo has 3 losses and a #16 net so they should make the field, while 4 loss Belmont (52 net) and Murray (56 net) would be in the conversation. I think Murray may have lost 2 OVC games with their best player banged up which leads to the question of selection committee consideration?

[VUGrad1314]

I'd rather not make it more difficult to win our conference and lessen our revenue shares as a %. BUT if it has to happen, sign me up for Murray State and NKU.

If the MVC does want to expand then this is the time to strike. As for mid major at-large candidates Buffalo has 3 losses and a #16 net so they should make the field, while 4 loss Belmont (52 net) and Murray (56 net) would be in the conversation. I think Murray may have lost 2 OVC games with their best player banged up which leads to the question of selection committee consideration?

Loyola got no such favor when Custer went down briefly and they struggled and that was coming from a stronger league with better metrics than Murray State has this year so I wouldn't count on any help from the committee if I'm a Racers fan.

[VUGrad1314]

Really interesting article about the P5\G5 revenue gap.

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/texastechredraiders/2019/03/01/texas-tech-houston-show-financial-gap-haves-nots-could-getting-wider

[VU2014]

Some pretty crazy stuff out in Utah. Utah State upsets #12 Nevada and this happens.

https://twitter.com/AthleteSwag/status/1102071587728224261

[VULB#62]

Jeez, that whole string of tweets is sad. I hope he can rebound next year.  But what a crappy year. He is too good a person and coach to have that loaded on his back. What went wrong down there so quickly?

[valpo84]

From the did you know department, Buffalo and Valpo were in the same conference for 4 seasons....

[vu84v2]

The NCAA selection committee decisions will be very interesting this year. As they have moved from RPI to NET, the criteria used in the rankings had changed to some degree. In the 'RPI days', a team in the Top 40 was almost always selected and Top 50 always had a pretty good chance.

Looking at the current NET rankings, these mid-major teams are in the Top 50:
Wofford #14
Buffalo #16
Nevada #20
UCF #28
Utah State #30
Saint Mary's #39
Furman #43
Belmont #44
Lipscomb #45
Murray State #49

Not all of these teams will win their conference tournaments and, of course, some are in the same conference and one (Saint Mary's) will be hard pressed to beat a higher team in their conference. Will these teams get selected over teams like TCU, Minnesota, St John's, and Seton Hall that are in the middle of power conference rankings, but have a few marquee wins. I would like to see the mid-majors get the recognition that they deserve, but I am sort of doubtful that will happen.

One reason that I love college basketball: despite all of the efforts of the major conferences to create barriers against the mid-majors, you always get mid-major teams that overcome those barriers by developing players and playing great team basketball.

[VUGrad1314]

This is a good move for the HL and SL and both leagues should be applauded for doing this. I am all for the South Dakota State vs Northern Kentucky and Wright State matchups this is sure to yield. This could also be a good audition for Fort Wayne and the HL. Should we be the Summit League's outsider team for this challenge? It will allow us a game against an old rival which could boost attendance. Of course given our recent struggles we probably won't see the NKU\WSUs of the world so it may not help scheduling strength much but it beats the heck out of non-D1s.

http://horizonleague.org/news/2019/3/6/mens-basketball-horizon-league-summit-league-showdown-to-start-in-2020.aspx

[VUGrad1314]

The NCAA selection committee decisions will be very interesting this year. As they have moved from RPI to NET, the criteria used in the rankings had changed to some degree. In the 'RPI days', a team in the Top 40 was almost always selected and Top 50 always had a pretty good chance. Looking at the current NET rankings, these mid-major teams are in the Top 50: Wofford #14 Buffalo #16 Nevada #20 UCF #28 Utah State #30 Saint Mary's #39 Furman #43 Belmont #44 Lipscomb #45 Murray State #49 Not all of these teams will win their conference tournaments and, of course, some are in the same conference and one (Saint Mary's) will be hard pressed to beat a higher team in their conference. Will these teams get selected over teams like TCU, Minnesota, St John's, and Seton Hall that are in the middle of power conference rankings, but have a few marquee wins. I would like to see the mid-majors get the recognition that they deserve, but I am sort of doubtful that will happen. One reason that I love college basketball: despite all of the efforts of the major conferences to create barriers against the mid-majors, you always get mid-major teams that overcome those barriers by developing players and playing great team basketball.

Locks: Wofford Buffalo Nevada


Should be in: UCF Utah State


There's your cutoff methinks. Everyone else needs to win their conference tournament to get in and pray nobody like Wofford Buffalo or Nevada (unless it's by Utah State) gets tripped up and nobody on the bubble wins their conference tournament. St Mary's needs Gonzaga to leave to get in and Belmont Lipscomb and Murray State need to get out of their low major conferences and into conferences with better overall metrics.

[VUGrad1314]

Here's the perfect storm for mid majors:

UCF wins the AAC

St Mary's beats Gonzaga

Furman beats Wofford

Utah State beats Nevada

and even then I don't see much of a path for Belmont Lipscomb or Murray State outside of their conference tournaments. They might have an outside chance at one of the final slots but only if they make the finals of their tournament. Belmont's 3-0 record against Lipscomb and Murray State gives them the best chance of surviving and making good on that faint hope. Murray State being the one to beat Belmont in the finals would be good for mids too and could get both in. Lipscomb is the hardest to advocate for without winning their conference tournament (Murray State is in that boat too.) I see too many holes in either team's resume and Belmont's isn't without its warts either (Green Bay Jacksonville State sweep) but as I said they are the best bet of these three in this scenario to survive as an at large.

[VUGrad1314]

Interesting...

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/sources-creighton-tcu-now-involved-college-basketball-fraud-scandal-223559696.html

[VUGrad1314]

Are conferences about to make some moves? The tone of this interview with SL Commissioner Tom Douple seems to suggest as much. His comments about PFW and UMKC (and to a lesser extent WIU and Augustana) seem to suggest as much. This also could be why the HL\SL challenge is not starting until 2020 which coincidentally is the year North Dakota is joining the MVFC. I think the pieces are coming together...

https://kwsn.com/podcasts/sports-talk-with-kwsn/5093/tom-douple-on-summit-tourneys-decade-in-sioux-falls-augustana-possibility/#

Consider the following:

Dixie State is joining the WAC This gives UMKC freedom to go to the Summit to replace PFW

PFW goes to the Horizon

NKU miffed by LeCrone's tournament shenanigans reaches out to the MVC and the MVC is receptive

Murray State at long last has its entrance partner to enter the MVC

With Murray State gone the OVC is free to add Lipscomb who would likely relish the travel cost savings and more importantly move its tournament back to Nashville

The OVC adds a football only member (North Alabama?)