NCAA College Basketball Talk

[vu72]

arguably one of the top 5 talents in school history

A bit of a stretch.  We'll see.

[VUGrad1314]

Javon is top 10 if he isn't top 5. I can't think of more than a handful of players you could say have had definitively better careers than he has at Valpo and he's only in his second year. I think he's definitely ahead of the pace for pretty much everybody if you compare sophomore year vs sophomore year of guys like Peters Rowdy and Bryce.

[VUGrad1314]

This is interesting. This guy is pretty plugged in on AAC stuff apparently.

https://twitter.com/c_austin_cox/status/1206988456192286720

[bbtds]

This is interesting. This guy is pretty plugged in on AAC stuff apparently.

Looking at Colorado State (if the AAC expands), CSU has 8 Pac-12, 4 SEC, 3 Big 12 and 2 Big Ten football games on future schedules. That'd put AAC branding and mentions in front of more eyeballs nationally. Rams have a new stadium and Fort Collins is great to visit. But it's far.

Going in that direction it could be a Rocky (ies) Road for the AAC. Oooowww, that is awful............

[vu72]

Javon is top 10 if he isn't top 5. I can't think of more than a handful of players you could say have had definitively better careers than he has at Valpo and he's only in his second year. I think he's definitely ahead of the pace for pretty much everybody if you compare sophomore year vs sophomore year of guys like Peters Rowdy and Bryce.

True, sophomore year to sophomore year, no doubt--so far.  Freshman year was also pretty strong.  Javon was 11.0 ppg with 4.3 bpg, shot 29% from the 3 and 69% from the line.  Alec and Lubos were better, as was Bryce.  Bryce had 13.4 ppg his freshman year,  Alec was 12.7 ppg with 4.8 boards and shot 38% from the 3 and 77% from the line.  Lubos had 13.8 ppg   Dan Oppland average 15.1 ppg his sophomore year, Alec was up to 16.8, Rowdy was at 10.3 ppg. Bryce was at 17.2 his sophomore year.

[VUGrad1314]

Holy mother of money... This has to be the power move that brings Texas and Oklahoma into the SEC. Even with the harder path to the playoff there's no way they would turn down that kind of cash if the SEC wanted to lock in and maybe even push that payout even higher.

https://twitter.com/SmittySBJ/status/1208187770059014144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1208187770059014144&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-890915.html

[wh]

Javon is top 10 if he isn't top 5. I can't think of more than a handful of players you could say have had definitively better careers than he has at Valpo and he's only in his second year. I think he's definitely ahead of the pace for pretty much everybody if you compare sophomore year vs sophomore year of guys like Peters Rowdy and Bryce.

True, sophomore year to sophomore year, no doubt--so far.  Freshman year was also pretty strong.  Javon was 11.0 ppg with 4.3 bpg, shot 29% from the 3 and 69% from the line.  Alec and Lubos were better, as was Bryce.  Bryce had 13.4 ppg his freshman year,  Alec was 12.7 ppg with 4.8 boards and shot 38% from the 3 and 77% from the line.  Lubos had 13.8 ppg   Dan Oppland average 15.1 ppg his sophomore year, Alec was up to 16.8, Rowdy was at 10.3 ppg. Bryce was at 17.2 his sophomore year.

Javon averaged 11 PPG last year without a jump shot. Now he's a danger from anywhere on the court and has a 22 point average to show for it. It's hard to imagine that he could improve to the degree he has in such a short time. IMO he's a better athlete than Dan, Bryce or Ryan or Lubos (and I loved those guys). We could be watching the guy who someday will be considered the best player that ever wore a Crusader uniform. It's a tall order, but he's definitely tracking north. 

[valpotx]

Holy mother of money... This has to be the power move that brings Texas and Oklahoma into the SEC. Even with the harder path to the playoff there's no way they would turn down that kind of cash if the SEC wanted to lock in and maybe even push that payout even higher.

https://twitter.com/SmittySBJ/status/1208187770059014144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1208187770059014144&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-890915.html

Never going to happen, at least regarding UT.  Also, if UT doesn't make a move, OU isn't going anywhere (as with the Pac-10 rumors years ago).  UT gets to dictate what happens in the Big 12, and would not give that up to join any conference.  They are already the most profitable university program in the country, and that won't change anytime soon.

https://www.athleticscholarships.net/profitable-college-football-programs.htm

[VUGrad1314]

Holy mother of money... This has to be the power move that brings Texas and Oklahoma into the SEC. Even with the harder path to the playoff there's no way they would turn down that kind of cash if the SEC wanted to lock in and maybe even push that payout even higher. https://twitter.com/SmittySBJ/status/1208187770059014144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1208187770059014144&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-890915.html

Never going to happen, at least regarding UT.  Also, if UT doesn't make a move, OU isn't going anywhere (as with the Pac-10 rumors years ago).  UT gets to dictate what happens in the Big 12, and would not give that up to join any conference.  They are already the most profitable university program in the country, and that won't change anytime soon. https://www.athleticscholarships.net/profitable-college-football-programs.htm

I don't know why any university would turn down a chance to double (or probably more than double) their payout just from conference dispersals and media deals. That takes a special kind of ego (and stupid) to turn down free money profitable or not.

[VUGrad1314]

This is interesting. This guy is pretty plugged in on AAC stuff apparently. Looking at Colorado State (if the AAC expands), CSU has 8 Pac-12, 4 SEC, 3 Big 12 and 2 Big Ten football games on future schedules. That'd put AAC branding and mentions in front of more eyeballs nationally. Rams have a new stadium and Fort Collins is great to visit. But it's far.

Going in that direction it could be a Rocky (ies) Road for the AAC. Oooowww, that is awful............

For the record, they're looking at Army, BYU, Air Force, Boise State, San Diego State, and Colorado State as candidates. The first two are unlikely, and there is mixed support among fans from what I've seen (I read a lot of boards and fan chatter) for CSU but the other three (AF BSU SDSU) might be in play as a one off or a package. HOWEVER, the Mountain West just inked a deal that provides substantially more money to all MW members (almost $4million per year I think and almost $6million to Boise State). At nearly $7million per school the AAC still makes more money but when coupled with the loss of MWC games for Olympic sports and whatever travel increases may result from switching olympic sports conferences as well as the travel increase of playing AAC games the question becomes interesting: are the earlier start times and eastern exposure and greater access to rich recruiting areas like Florida and Texas worth the loss of traditional rivalries prestige of your olympic sports programs and access to talent rich California as well as rising (potentially significantly rising depending upon where the olympic sports go) travel costs? Honestly, for a school like Air Force especially that never wins a move to the more competitively and geographically friendly Summit League (or serving as a punching bag for Gonzaga BYU and St Mary's every year but still being able to recruit California in Olympic Sports) might be worth it because those don't sound like losses and the football program gets a boost. But for schools with something to lose (like Boise State who loses power and access to quality games unless the WCC takes them) or SDSU (unless they could get into the WCC which would be awesome for both parties) it's a tougher decision. Even with the difficulties of institutional fit, I think SDSU would have the easiest time finding acceptance in the WCC (except that they would have the Toreros in their own city to convince and contend with but because they provide quality games I'm sure they wouldn't mind) but Boise State and Air Force would be tougher sells because the history of success isn't really there most years and Gonzaga probably doesn't want to have 1 or 2 (if they took Seattle from the WAC) regional rivals in conference when they rule Washington (and that conference) especially if they are potential drags on conference metrics.

[VUGrad1314]

Some great info from Mark Adams about buy games that fans (and schedulemakers if you're listening) might find interesting. There are some teams we could beat on this list and get paid for it AND get some exposure from Jon Rothstein with his "Epitome of Brutality" tweets.

https://www.athleticdirectoru.com/articles/investigating-college-basketball-buy-games/

[valpotx]

Holy mother of money... This has to be the power move that brings Texas and Oklahoma into the SEC. Even with the harder path to the playoff there's no way they would turn down that kind of cash if the SEC wanted to lock in and maybe even push that payout even higher. https://twitter.com/SmittySBJ/status/1208187770059014144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1208187770059014144&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-890915.html

Never going to happen, at least regarding UT.  Also, if UT doesn't make a move, OU isn't going anywhere (as with the Pac-10 rumors years ago).  UT gets to dictate what happens in the Big 12, and would not give that up to join any conference.  They are already the most profitable university program in the country, and that won't change anytime soon. https://www.athleticscholarships.net/profitable-college-football-programs.htm

I don't know why any university would turn down a chance to double (or probably more than double) their payout just from conference dispersals and media deals. That takes a special kind of ego (and stupid) to turn down free money profitable or not.

They already make that much with their own television associations and other revenue sources, and have complete control over a conference.  Why switch conferences to make the same amount of money, and give up that control?

[VUGrad1314]

I'm sure they'd still be able to keep the LHN no matter where they end up. And how is that control working out for them? They've sure channeled that dominion over the conference into being a super relevant program that dominates the conference and regularly makes the playoff. Oh I'm sorry that's Oklahoma. They "own" the conference yet they are repeatedly owned by Oklahoma? That doesn't wash. The people who run that university need a serious attitude adjustment. Legends in their own minds. Look at these records (since losing the National Title game to Alabama in 2009) :

2010: 5-7

2011: 8-5 Won Holiday Bowl

2012: 9-4 Won Alamo Bowl

2013: 8-5  Lost Alamo Bowl

2014: 6-7 Lost Texas Bowl

2015: 5-7

2016: 5-7

2017: 7-6 Won Texas Bowl

2018: 10-4 Won Sugar Bowl

2019: 8-5 Won Alamo Bowl

71-57 In probably the weakest P5 conference. hardly "controlling" Hardly dominating. What's the point of controlling a conference if all you can manage are middling results? They should be grateful a league like the SEC or Big 10 would even want them. And as the flagship university of Texas with a national fan\alumni base they have no reason to worry at all about damaging their brand by becoming even less successful.

The gulf between the Big 10 SEC and the rest of the P5 is only going to get bigger and the Big XII being in flyover country isn't going to help them. They're going to lag behind the others (especially if the Pac 12 actually finds competent leadership. The Big XII is going to have trouble holding on to that last spot in the playoff spot and becoming some SEC team's whipping post in Round 1. And Texas can't even play that role because they're constantly clowned by Oklahoma. They'd better get smart and take their money and the lifeboat out to a better league while they can or the conferences will just go ahead and move on to another target like Kansas (nationally relevant basketball) or Oklahoma State (same mediocre Big XII performance less ego and headache to deal with.)

[valpotx]

I would contend that the Big 10 is weaker than the Big 12 in a normal year.  You really just have Ohio State, Michigan, and Wisconsin that are pretty consistent winners.  This year was a good year for top 25 teams in the Big 10, but it is not the norm, in spite of what native mid-westerners like to believe .

[VUGrad1314]

This could be big and a situation that bears watching. It could potentially significantly affect the future of mid major college hoops.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/sports/college/mountain-west/boise-state-university/boise-state-football/article239413553.html

https://twitter.com/Ron_BroncoBeat/status/1218332387873976320/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1218332387873976320&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-892246-page-3.html

[VUGrad1314]

Some thoughts:

Boise State, seeking more money earlier kickoffs and better exposure (which admittedly this new deal provides to some degree though the new deal has obviously ruffled some feathers) might consider taking the spot UConn is vacating in the AAC and putting their Olympic sports either in the WCC (if they will take them) the Big West or the WAC where they will be more consistently competitive though it will hurt recruiting for those sports while football gets a boost.

Air Force (as I think I have detailed earlier) has also had their coach speak up about the Mountain West possibly not being the best fit for them. Now, tripling their money probably quelled some of that but I think his concerns were more than financial. They would have more conference options for olympic sports than Boise State due to their academic standing. Also, the media deal would probably be negotiated way down without Boise State involved unless there is specific language protecting that which there probably isn't. The AAC might want some regional partners for Boise State football who have strong programs and national brands that add value. Air Force certainly fits that bill. Additionally the AAC is academy friendly and would definitely welcome Air Force.

Like Boise State, San Diego State--they of 10 consecutive bowl appearances--nearly joined the AAC as a football affiliate at its inception. They would add another strong program and regional partner and a strong market. if they came alongside Air Force and Boise State it would be a definitive blow to the MWC. They would have plenty of options as well for Olympic sports. The WCC would ALMOST CERTAINLY make an exception to its all private makeup to add a program of SDSU's caliber. They would immediately be of similar or better caliber to the upper tier of that conference. It's ironic that the AAC could eliminate two Olympic sports rivals (the MWC and the A10) while creating another (the WCC). I wonder if they would do a challenge with each other.

Hawaii would probably consider independence a better option at that point. They could certainly put together a great schedule with their extremely attractive location.


The reason I don't list these teams as potential all sports AAC teams is because 1. Air Force and Boise State won't be nearly good enough in Olympic Sports and the additional travel even with the additional money would make that worse in all likelihood. And 2. Better affiliates can be found for Olympic sports within their existing footprint. Which brings me to the main reason why I'm even posting this here. This is where it gets dicey for the MVC.

If the AAC takes only one team from the MWC, they will likely pursue a school from the A10 (VCU Dayton or SLU most likely). And

If the A10 loses only one school, you have to think Loyola is a prime target especially if that school is VCU and they still have semi regional schools like Dayton and SLU in conference. If SLU is left out and they somehow lose BOTH VCU and Dayton (unlikely but possible) then SLU likely considers the Valley as a better home. The MVC could counter by adding Murray State and likely emerge largely unscathed but it wouldn't necessarily make us any better. However

If the AAC gets bold it's a mixed bag but not good for the MVC

Pros:

We keep Loyola

Both the MWC and A10 are weakened significantly

Our schedules would likely improve as well as the weakened A10 and MWC will need us more for quality games and could still potentially provide us with some quality games.

Our potential for a scheduling alliance\conference challenges grows, as our stature relative to other mid majors grows. Instead of having 9 or 10 conferences ahead of us, we would only have 7 or 8 conferences definitively ahead of us at any given year.

The impetus to add Murray State for added strength potentially grows.

Cons:

The AAC and WCC, two conferences we fight for the few non A5 conferences for at large bids, get significantly stronger, potentially crowding us out.

The gulf between the haves and have nots grows even more

If one of these HAS to happen (and I suspect it does) I don't know which of these outcomes is better for the MVC. Neither one is good. I think I prefer the route where we keep Loyola and take our chances to see how we as a conference can with our peers adapt to the increasingly stratified world we would inhabit. Remember, since added strength in the AAC and WCC comes at the expense of the A10 and the MWC in this scenario there would probably still be a few slots for our teams to fight for. But maybe that's wishful thinking. Either way this is about to get interesting. Let's see how this unfolds but I think moves are going to be made soon.

Boise State's AD didn't make a statement like that for nothing and you have to believe that the conference is tired of seeing Boise State be catered to as a special member when they're supposed to be a peer. I think a split of some kind between BSU and the MWC is inevitable. The only question is if other teams (like Air Force and SDSU) follow suit trying to retain a shot at national relevance for their programs. I don't see Boise State going independent. I don't think they would make it without a conference.

[oklahomamick]

Vanderbilt's 34-year 3-point streak ends with 0-for-25 night


https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28511073/vanderbilt-34-year-3-point-streak-ends-0-25-night

[VUGrad1314]

Vanderbilt has another streak to worry about... Maybe Bryce wasn't the problem eh, boys?

But they did get some money from a really optimistic fan.

Vanderbilt "Has the building blocks to become a national power..." LOL Suuuuure.... Because of all that money Kentucky heaps on your conference maybe...

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28503159/vanderbilt-alum-donates-5-million-men-basketball-program

[VUGrad1314]

Speaking of Vanderbilt, this tweet made me LOL. Great stuff from Vols Twitter.

https://twitter.com/Vol_Hoops/status/1218700928691339266

[VUGrad1314]

Holy Crap... According to this interview some 1200 Racer fans made the three hour trip to Memphis to support Ja Morant in Memphis during his game against the Cavaliers. If they can get that many for an alum's NBA game three hours away imagine how many they could bring to Arch Madness! They would look so good in the MVC!

https://twitter.com/GrizzliesOnFSSE/status/1218375561262850048

[valpotx]

Dang, and I thought bringing out 30-35 folks to our Mavs event last year was pretty good lol.

[vu84v2]

New AP Rankings out and there are two very interesting things to notice in these rankings.

-Baylor is Number 1.
-Three of the top seven teams are from outside the Power 6 conferences.

[VUGrad1314]

UNI is the fourth highest vote recipient in the AP poll in the Others Receiving votes and the fifth highest in the Coaches Poll. They are so close to being ranked! I hope they get there!

[VUGrad1314]

UNI not in the top 5 mid majors with a shot at an at large? WTF Palm?  (Unless he's only considering teams not currently leading their conferences in which case my WTF is humbly retracted.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/talk-to-the-palm-bracketology-mailbag-answers-questions-about-the-ncaa-tournament-bracket-projection/

[VUGrad1314]

New AP Rankings out and there are two very interesting things to notice in these rankings. -Baylor is Number 1. -Three of the top seven teams are from outside the Power 6 conferences.

I mean Baylor being #1 is great and all and congratulations to Scott on the achievement. I watched their win over Oklahoma and they're very good and  have some seriously talented athletes that can jump out of the gym but...


How on EARTH did they earn the right to leapfrog Gonzaga for the #1 ranking. They beat Oklahoma State (NET 78) by 7 on the road and they beat Iowa State (NET 82) by 13 at home... Meanwhile, Gonzaga plays two home games and DRILLS Santa Clara (NET 86) by 50 and BYU (NET 37) by 23. I know the metric stops counting at 10 points but I mean come on... Gonzaga played better teams on balance and won by more points than Baylor and gets punished for playing both games at home? Is a 7 point victory over a team 8 spots higher really more impressive than a double digit victory at home? Just more rinse and repeat business as usual from the football conferences where a deserving team gets screwed over by conference affiliation...