NCAA College Basketball Talk

[IrishDawg]

https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/1460714826699841539

[wh]

Wow, a big development.

[VUGrad1314]

I took a lot of crap for suggesting that this was possible before but it always made sense after the Final Four run and looking at their subsequent budgets. Good for Loyola. They are now with budgetary institutional and academic peers and have access to many prominent east coast markets as they look to become a more national school. They can still schedule their local rivals in the MVC if they wish in the Nonconference and I hope they do. It would be a victory for all concerned. This is a big blow to Valpo locally though as well because Loyola was always one of our better attended games and Loyola getting even more press in the market only further marginalizes Valpo (not that our performance has earned us anything). I had to think something was up when I started to see Loyola games on NBC Sports Chicago and here it is. A good fit for everyone except the MVC but you can't think about who you're leaving behind when you make the best decision for yourself as an institution. I wish them well and hope that they will give us one more good sendoff and will schedule us in the nonconference going forward. I also hope we have the good sense in the MVC not to go after crappy far away programs but we'll see who we end up adding.

[Chairback]

Loyola has a unproven coach and after this year different players.  Basically the A10 bought last years team and hoping the magic continues.  Kind of like the MVC conference bought us based on what Bryce did here.

[VUGrad1314]

Loyola has a unproven coach and after this year different players.  Basically the A10 bought last years team and hoping the magic continues.  Kind of like the MVC conference bought us based on what Bryce did here.

Loyola will do better in the A-10 than we have so far in the Valley. I firmly believe that. And if not they will spend the money to be more competitive unlike VU who can't or won't.

[wh]

Loyola has a unproven coach and after this year different players.  Basically the A10 bought last years team and hoping the magic continues.  Kind of like the MVC conference bought us based on what Bryce did here.

Loyola will do better in the A-10 than we have so far in the Valley. I firmly believe that. And if not they will spend the money to be more competitive unlike VU who can't or won't.

Being older, I have a longer personal view of Loyola. They were a consistently poor bb program for at least 2 decades before they struck pay dirt. To Chairback's point, the 1 coach and 1 player who took them to the promised land will be long gone next year. Valpo had 2 decades of successful teams before they moved to the MVC, multiple league MVP's, tournament appearances, Sweet 16, NBA players, etc. And yet that hasn't translated into success in the MVC. Hopefully it will soon. Whether Loyola parlays their current success into A-10 success is IMO a coin flip. That said, they have represented the Valley well, and I wish them the best.

[VU75]

 Actually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard  to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.

[JD24]

Actually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard  to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.

I don't know what their commitment to the A10 would be but they've had 2 essentially 20 year tournament droughts with one year in prior to the Moser/Krutwig show. With both gone, who knows what happens. 

[oklahomamick]

Congratulations Loyola.

I remember when the crusaders joined the HL and learning the teams.  Loyola was the towards the bottom every year.   

Jumped to the Valley and then 10 years later jumped to the A10.  Quick turn if events for this university and its athletics. 

They did have some outside natural factors that helped with the promotion.

Good academics, chicago, catholic.

Some of the factors they could control.

Who they hired when moving to the valley.  Recruiting.  Investing in the program.

They did well.  Congrats to our closest mvc rival. 

[a3uge]

Actually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard  to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.

That's one way to skirt around 30 years of incompetence.

[Just Sayin]

Actually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard  to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.

That's one way to skirt around 30 years of incompetence.

1998

[a3uge]

Actually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard  to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.

That's one way to skirt around 30 years of incompetence.

1998

So you're comparing Valpo's tournament teams with Loyola's doormat teams that dragged the Horizon down since the mid 80s?

[wh]

Actually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard  to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.

That's one way to skirt around 30 years of incompetence.

• Prior to Krutwig's arrival, Loyola had not been to the NCAA tournament since 1985.
• In those 33 years Loyola had 25 losing seasons.
• In those 33 years Loyola won exactly 1 regular season conference championship (31 years ago) and 0 tournament championships.

That is complete and utter incompetence by anyone's standards.

[wh]

Actually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard  to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.

That's one way to skirt around 30 years of incompetence.

• Prior to Krutwig's arrival, Loyola had not been to the NCAA tournament since 1985.
• In those 33 years Loyola had 25 losing seasons.
• In those 33 years Loyola won exactly 1 regular season conference championship (31 years ago) and 0 tournament championships.

That is complete and utter incompetence by anyone's standards.

Since I'm on my soapbox, let me also say this. Loyola receiving an invitation to join the Valley was the most undeserved "promotion" I've ever seen. I can't think of a worse Horizon League team at the time with the possible exception of YSU. They got the job simply because they fit the uniform (Chicago market).

I have no ill will toward Loyola whatsoever. I wish them the best. I'm also not foolish enough to buy into a narrative that Loyola University is some sort of mid major basketball power whose ship finally came in. This is not the Butler rags-to-riches story by a different name. Two things, and only two things are responsible for their 2 conference moves: their location and Carmen Krutwig.

Goodbye and good luck, Loyola. Next man up.

[vu84v2]

Actually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard  to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.

That's one way to skirt around 30 years of incompetence.

• Prior to Krutwig's arrival, Loyola had not been to the NCAA tournament since 1985.
• In those 33 years Loyola had 25 losing seasons.
• In those 33 years Loyola won exactly 1 regular season conference championship (31 years ago) and 0 tournament championships.

That is complete and utter incompetence by anyone's standards.

Since I'm on my soapbox, let me also say this. Loyola receiving an invitation to join the Valley was the most undeserved "promotion" I've ever seen. I can't think of a worse Horizon League team at the time with the possible exception of YSU. They got the job simply because they fit the uniform (Chicago market).

I have no I'll will toward Loyola whatsoever. I wish them the best. I'm also not foolish enough to buy into a narrative that Loyola University is some sort of mid major basketball power whose ship finally came in. This is not the Butler rags-to-riches story by a different name. Two things, and only two things are responsible for their 2 conference moves: their location and Carmen Krutwig.

Goodbye and good luck, Loyola. Next man up.

I agree with the general points here, but I think that Porter Moser was a big driver of the success that fostered Loyola's two conference moves. He recruited and developed Krutwig and found and developed a lot of players that fit well into his system. Ironically, Moser is gone now and (unlike Butler) there is no evidence that Loyola has a system in which they succeed even if they change coaches. Perhaps they will succeed despite transitions in coaching, but that is yet to be seen.

Given Loyola's recent high level of performance, it is the location that drove this. A10 had an opportunity to enter the Chicago market with a team that could be considered good enough to play in their conference. A10 is a strange conference in that not only does it have a lot of teams (14 prior to this move), there is tremendous variance across the programs (Duquense, LaSalle and Fordham are really weak programs relative to VCU, Davidson and Dayton).

[vu72]

unlike Butler) there is no evidence that Loyola has a system in which they succeed even if they change coaches.

There is no doubt that Butler has many years of "success" in terms of total wins but what they have done since moving to the Big East is two 2nd place finishes in 9 years (those were however 5 and 7 years ago) and one last place tie, a 9th and a 10th and the balance being middle of the pack.

As has been shown by us, moving up to a new conference ( and I'm not willing to say that the A-10 is better overall than the Valley) isn't always all that successful, though in Butler (and our) case, it has been much better money wise and in Butler's case, due to the higher ranked conference, has led to additional NCAA bids.

[crusader05]

Any money from their tournament appearances stay with us right? That's as far as I go in the being concerned about this.

[valpo64]

"wh", your comments are right on the money.

[VU75]

in

Since I'm on my soapbox, let me also say this. Loyola receiving an invitation to join the Valley was the most undeserved "promotion" I've ever seen

Absolutely right, and what did they do about that.

I've been on this board for decades and I've read post after post about now is the time to make a  commitment to athletics: after the sweet 16, after joining the Horizon, after joining the Valley.  Well, 20 years ago the  Gentile Center was basically a brand new version of the ARC, and after a dozen years it was renovated into the first class arena Valpo has talked about forever.  That got Loyola in, and rather then just being happy to be in, they took advantage.  Since then they built a 3 story athletic training building and a 2 story practice facility.
They have been competitive in every sport and maybe it's an advantage not dealing with short armed Lutherans, but Loyola seems to be very  skilled in finding deep pocket donors.  The Loyola people I deal with see the 10 as a stepping stone.  After being blocked by DePaul time after time, the dream is to force their way into the Big East.  I wouldn't go that far but a I do see an athletic department working hand in hand with the administration with a  hefty enrollment increase to encourage it to continue.  That's a real attraction for quality coaches.. Loyola will have a larger recruiting footprint then most of the conference and with the Big East poaching the top 2 or 3 teams they should be able to compete in the top half of the league.

[VUGrad1314]

Any money from their tournament appearances stay with us right? That's as far as I go in the being concerned about this.

Yes earned credits stay with the conference and I think as a departing member Loyola forfeits their share but I'm not positive on that. They certainly do once they leave but I don't know about this one year interim time. I hope they leave some more on the way out the door. The question is who steps up and takes their mantle? My money is on Drake or Belmont. If we get Murray State I feel confident in them too. UNI and Missouri State have been bafflingly inconsistent relative to the talent on their rosters.


As I've said I advocate three teams being added right now:


Murray State to replace Loyola's basketball prowess somewhat


NKU as a quality Q2 level program and a hedge against potentially losing Missouri State (I think we can get similar or possibly better results from them)


UIC to replace Loyola's Chicago presence somewhat. (From a basketball\athletics perspective I would prefer Wright State they are to the Horizon what Missouri State and to some degree UNI are to the MVC in that they are good at almost everything but I have heard nothing to suggest that their financial troubles are over so they are on hold right now. UIC offers this similar potential if they decide to invest and offers a very important Chicago presence which we now lack.


Do that and there's a good chance we'll end up being fine. Add Arlington and KC and we're careening toward permanent one bid status.

[usc4valpo]

Looks like we can now consider SFA again...

[VUGrad1314]

Looks like we can now consider SFA again...

If we're adding Arlington sure From an athletics perspective I would take them over Arlington but their academics clearly need work it seems. That makes them a likely no go.

[usc4valpo]

1314 - where do you get this information? complete BS. SFA is a great teachers and forestry university and has a pretty decent business school. Academically, it is there with Indiana State, UNI, and Missouri St. My wife went to school there and I work with a few graduates who went there.

[Valpo Joe]

Can we buyout Sister Jean's Contract

[vu84v2]

in

Since I'm on my soapbox, let me also say this. Loyola receiving an invitation to join the Valley was the most undeserved "promotion" I've ever seen

Absolutely right, and what did they do about that.

I've been on this board for decades and I've read post after post about now is the time to make a  commitment to athletics: after the sweet 16, after joining the Horizon, after joining the Valley.  Well, 20 years ago the  Gentile Center was basically a brand new version of the ARC, and after a dozen years it was renovated into the first class arena Valpo has talked about forever.  That got Loyola in, and rather then just being happy to be in, they took advantage.  Since then they built a 3 story athletic training building and a 2 story practice facility.
They have been competitive in every sport and maybe it's an advantage not dealing with short armed Lutherans, but Loyola seems to be very  skilled in finding deep pocket donors.  The Loyola people I deal with see the 10 as a stepping stone.  After being blocked by DePaul time after time, the dream is to force their way into the Big East.  I wouldn't go that far but a I do see an athletic department working hand in hand with the administration with a  hefty enrollment increase to encourage it to continue.  That's a real attraction for quality coaches.. Loyola will have a larger recruiting footprint then most of the conference and with the Big East poaching the top 2 or 3 teams they should be able to compete in the top half of the league.

Who do you see the Big East poaching from the A10? I do not see Saint Louis happening due to the strength of its program relative to the Big East programs. There have also been financial stability issues at Saint Louis that are similar to issues at some Big East schools - but those schools are already in the Big East. Dayton may love to join the Big East, but they will get blocked by Xavier unless there is some overriding need to expand. Same with Loyola - except I think they would be blocked by both DePaul and Marquette. Only one school plays FBS football (UConn) in the Big East (and they are awful in football), so the conference can be pretty confident that no programs are going to leave for a better alternative.