NCAA College Basketball Talk

[FieldGoodie05]

Anyone else find Robbie Hummel hard to stomach as an announcer?  I have no reason to dislike him, but wow.

He makes uninformed statements and is really harsh sounding.  Sort of feels like the guy at the party that everyone wishes would tone it down.  Maybe we treat him like a "freshmen" announcer and he'll be better by his senior season!!!

Wow, my mistake.  It's Tim Doyle from Northwestern.  Apologies to Robbie Hummel.

[valpo64]

Just as I figured, Oakland has not lived up to all their hype losing 2 straight home games last week vs NKU and WSU.  I just get tired of hearing how they are going to dominate the HL and then lay the eggs they always seem to do.  They have also lost to Green Bay.  This is a senior dominated team with experience, scoring and height.  Now I waiting to hear again what a great coach "The King" is.  It seems like he always "talks the talk" but most often doesn't "walk the walk".

[VU2014]

Just as I figured, Oakland has not lived up to all their hype losing 2 straight home games last week vs NKU and WSU.  I just get tired of hearing how they are going to dominate the HL and then lay the eggs they always seem to do.  They have also lost to Green Bay.  This is a senior dominated team with experience, scoring and height.  Now I waiting to hear again what a great coach "The King" is.  It seems like he always "talks the talk" but most often doesn't "walk the walk".

A mediocre season so far for Oakland and have been a real disappointment so far. But they'll have home-court advantage at Motor City Dumpster-Fire, so I don't feel too bad for them or the Horizon League. The Horizon League really took a nose dive this season. NKU is the only team that has put together a respectable season so far and not had any bad losses yet. NKU barely escaped a horrible loss to Detroit Mercy last night but UDM literally choked the game away for them.

I'm so thankful we are no longer with that train-wreck of a Conference.

[bbtds]

Anyone else find Robbie Hummel hard to stomach as an announcer?  I have no reason to dislike him, but wow.

He makes uninformed statements and is really harsh sounding.  Sort of feels like the guy at the party that everyone wishes would tone it down.  Maybe we treat him like a "freshmen" announcer and he'll be better by his senior season!!!

Wow, my mistake.  It's Tim Doyle from Northwestern.  Apologies to Robbie Hummel.

Nice save. Dogs called off.

[bbtds]

Just as I figured, Oakland has not lived up to all their hype losing 2 straight home games last week vs NKU and WSU.  I just get tired of hearing how they are going to dominate the HL and then lay the eggs they always seem to do.  They have also lost to Green Bay.  This is a senior dominated team with experience, scoring and height.  Now I waiting to hear again what a great coach "The King" is.  It seems like he always "talks the talk" but most often doesn't "walk the walk".

A mediocre season so far for Oakland and have been a real disappointment so far. But they'll have home-court advantage at Motor City Dumpster-Fire, so I don't feel too bad for them or the Horizon League. The Horizon League really took a nose dive this season. NKU is the only team that has put together a respectable season so far and not had any bad losses yet. NKU barely escaped a horrible loss to Detroit Mercy last night but UDM literally choked the game away for them.

I'm so thankful we are no longer with that train-wreck of a Conference.

Seriously----what conference? The HL is so irrelevant now.

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/MurrayRGJ/status/954051494604562432

http://www.richmond.com/sports/college/acc/woody-bracketologist-joe-lunardi-says-it-s-time-to-show/article_74c6f6ef-9971-5d02-8f8f-15a35ee289ba.html

WOODY: Bracketologist Joe Lunardi says it's time to show love to mid-major conferences
Paul Woody pwoody@timesdispatch.com
Jan 16, 2018


Joe Lunardi has run the numbers and come to an inescapable and reasonable conclusion.

In order for a Division I men's basketball team to play in the NCAA tournament, it should have to be "tournament eligible."

"A year ago in mid-February, Clemson was 4-10 (in the ACC) and still was considered a legitimate at-large team," said Lunardi. "I have nothing against Clemson. But they were 4-10. Why were we talking about this?

"We're de-emphasizing winning. There are too many numbers and not enough common sense."

..........

[VUGrad1314]

If you want to take a look at a couple of possible MVC expansion candidates  or just watch a really good mid major matchup Murray State is playing Belmont on ESPNU at 6PM

[NativeCheesehead]

Speaking of Clemson. I see Skara, after his suspension, is not finding the floor much for them. I take no pleasure in reporting that, but take immense pleasure in reporting the great Dave Maravilla's name is spelled wrong on their website.

[FieldGoodie05]

If you want to take a look at a couple of possible MVC expansion candidates  or just watch a really good mid major matchup Murray State is playing Belmont on ESPNU at 6PM

Take another season before adding any other MVC teams, where's the rush?

I'm still not 100% the MVC is a good long term conference for our small private Lutheran U.  Think Belmonts approach had some real substance....big fish in a medium pond.

[VU2014]

If you want to take a look at a couple of possible MVC expansion candidates  or just watch a really good mid major matchup Murray State is playing Belmont on ESPNU at 6PM

I'm still not 100% the MVC is a good long term conference for our small private Lutheran U.  Think Belmonts approach had some real substance....big fish in a medium pond.

I could not disagree more. I think the MVC is the best home for Valpo, other then a pie in the sky scenario where Valpo would somehow join the Big East.

Valpo was the big fish in a small pond back in the old mid-con and it was clear that we were better then that conference at the time. Yes we made a lot tourney appearances back then but that was a great run but you need to challenge yourself to move up in the world.

Their approach didn't lead to much substance last season when they were clearly the best team in the OVC and lost in the conf tourney. There is absolutely zero chance the ovc becomes a 2-bid league but there is a chance the MVC becomes one again. Northern Iowa had a chance this season before choking their 1st 5 conference games.

[FieldGoodie05]

If you want to take a look at a couple of possible MVC expansion candidates  or just watch a really good mid major matchup Murray State is playing Belmont on ESPNU at 6PM

I'm still not 100% the MVC is a good long term conference for our small private Lutheran U.  Think Belmonts approach had some real substance....big fish in a medium pond.

I could not disagree more. I think the MVC is the best home for Valpo, other then a pie in the sky scenario where Valpo would somehow join the Big East.

Valpo was the big fish in a small pond back in the old mid-con and it was clear that we were better then that conference at the time. Yes we made a lot tourney appearances back then but that was a great run but you need to challenge yourself to move up in the world.

Their approach didn't lead to much substance last season when they were clearly the best team in the OVC and lost in the conf tourney. There is absolutely zero chance the ovc becomes a 2-bid league but there is a chance the MVC becomes one again. Northern Iowa had a chance this season before choking their 1st 5 conference games.

Evansville...

25+ win seasons in the HL with tournament 50% of the time...

21 win seasons in the MVC once up to speed, tournament every 5 years...

How long until we are mired in mediocrity?  That being said, higher ceiling YES.  Huge risk YES.

[VU2014]

Evansville...

25+ win seasons in the HL with tournament 50% of the time...

21 win seasons in the MVC once up to speed, tournament every 5 years...

How long until we are mired in mediocrity?  That being said, higher ceiling YES.  Huge risk YES.

You need to risk it to get the biscuit.

I'm very happy to be in the MVC and I don't think I'll ever want Valpo to go back to the HL or SL. It's just a losers mentality to me.

[VUGrad1314]

If you want to take a look at a couple of possible MVC expansion candidates  or just watch a really good mid major matchup Murray State is playing Belmont on ESPNU at 6PM

I'm still not 100% the MVC is a good long term conference for our small private Lutheran U.  Think Belmonts approach had some real substance....big fish in a medium pond.

I could not disagree more. I think the MVC is the best home for Valpo, other then a pie in the sky scenario where Valpo would somehow join the Big East. Valpo was the big fish in a small pond back in the old mid-con and it was clear that we were better then that conference at the time. Yes we made a lot tourney appearances back then but that was a great run but you need to challenge yourself to move up in the world. Their approach didn't lead to much substance last season when they were clearly the best team in the OVC and lost in the conf tourney. There is absolutely zero chance the ovc becomes a 2-bid league but there is a chance the MVC becomes one again. Northern Iowa had a chance this season before choking their 1st 5 conference games.

Evansville... 25+ win seasons in the HL with tournament 50% of the time... 21 win seasons in the MVC once up to speed, tournament every 5 years... How long until we are mired in mediocrity?  That being said, higher ceiling YES.  Huge risk YES.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Remember we had growing pains with the move to the Horizon League as well. But it was clear that we had outgrown that league and needed a new challenge.  Will we ever dominate the league like we did in our previous two conferences? Maybe not, but that doesn't mean stepping up was the wrong move; especially  if the university is truly committed to building its brand across the midwest and beyond and to  being a power in midmajor athletics. This wasn't just a step up for basketball it was a step up for the entire athletic department and indeed the university as a whole. The teams in the MVC are the kind of teams we need to be competing against and beating consistently if we truly want to lay claim to that title. This move is already paying dividends in the increase in regional and national exposure we are seeing if we want to achieve what I am told is Valpo's mission. Taking the "big fish small pond" route not only foresakes our mission as a university but also does not guarantee anything for the athletic department. Furthermore, those benefits if realized will not be as far reaching as they would be in the MVC nor would they necessarily be as easy to access.I am sure that this will translate positively to student enrollment especially if we are successful. What's more, we have far more in common as an institution with schools like Drake Evansville Bradley Loyola and UNI than we ever did with Cleveland State UIC Milwaukee Youngstown State etc.

[VUGrad1314]

You're also missing another great benefit from joining the MVC that helps to mitigate the risk: a higher floor. An MVC team that performs decent\well is far more likely to get rewarded with higher seeding and (if the tournament uses campus sites) more home games allowing for a greater chance to succeed and collect money for the athletic department. It may be easier to get to the tournament in a lower league but it's far harder to win once you get there, also if you slip up along the path to the tournament the fall you take is much farther and harder making the path to success riskier and more difficult. Honestly the 2015-2016 season  should have settled this argument once and for all for Valpo fans. If that team was in the MVC I doubt they get left out of the dance. In fact I'd even venture to say that we would have been seeded highly enough to win at least one game.

[FieldGoodie05]

You're also missing another great benefit from joining the MVC that helps to mitigate the risk: a higher floor. An MVC team that performs decent\well is far more likely to get rewarded with higher seeding and (if the tournament uses campus sites) more home games allowing for a greater chance to succeed and collect money for the athletic department. It may be easier to get to the tournament in a lower league but it's far harder to win once you get there, also if you slip up along the path to the tournament the fall you take is much farther and harder making the path to success riskier and more difficult. Honestly the 2015-2016 season  should have settled this argument once and for all for Valpo fans. If that team was in the MVC I doubt they get left out of the dance. In fact I'd even venture to say that we would have been seeded highly enough to win at least one game.

Illinois State was left out when the league had Wichita State...

[VUGrad1314]

Yes but that year the MVC sat at least 4 spots lower in RPI and had a lower KenPom rating. Yes the league had Wichita State but it also had multiple sub 200 RPI drags that really hurt the Redbirds. What's more Illinois State didn't have multiple P5 victories they could trot out in front of the committee that year like they would have this year if they had replicated their success from the previous year. In fact their actual out of conference resume was kind of weak.

[vu72]

If you want to take a look at a couple of possible MVC expansion candidates  or just watch a really good mid major matchup Murray State is playing Belmont on ESPNU at 6PM

I watched the game and both of those schools, particularly Belmont, would unfortunately, beat out currently performing team rather easily. 

[bbtds]

I'm very happy to be in the MVC and I don't think I'll ever want Valpo to go back to the HL or SL. It's just a losers mentality to me.

Exact same thinking that SLU uses to stay in the A10 as of now and not move back to the MVC. They truly hope they can improve to the BE but the Billikens realize they are not near that quality of a program and will need to build up to that quality. As will Valpo have to build up to the quality of the MVC.

[valpo84]

 
Evansville...

25+ win seasons in the HL with tournament 50% of the time...

21 win seasons in the MVC once up to speed, tournament every 5 years...

How long until we are mired in mediocrity?  That being said, higher ceiling YES.  Huge risk YES.
[/quote]

Just a quick comment on this.  Evansville was never in the Horizon.  It was in the old MCC (Midwestern Cities Conference), which was a multi-bid league for many years and had some of the best basketball in the Midwest during the mid-late 1980s thru about early 1990s.  It then broke apart with teams going to the new Horizon League (with poached AMCU-8 schools Green Bay, Milwaukee, Wright State, CSU), and some going other places like E-Ville to the MVC, SLU to the Great Midwest/Conf USA.  Maybe E-ville should have went with the HL, but those teams of the late 80s/early 90s were really good.  Jim Crews was the head coach through that era, and in 88-89 they had a young Chris Mack (who would later transfer to X), Scott Hafner, Olaf Blab (yes, uwe's brother), in 91-92 they had Parrish Casebier averaging 25 and Scott Shreffler who was one of the better all-around guards in those days who started for 4 years, and 92-93 had Parrish and Scott. Scott also appeared in Blue Chips (like Shane Hammink's Dad).  The MCC was one of the most competitive leagues around and we went to a lot of X games during that period along with the conference tourneys held at Dayton.  Dayton, X, SLU, EVille, Detroit, Loyola all had outstanding players, teams and coaches.  X was running off multiple NCAA bids with guys like Larkin, Ty Hill, Derek Strong, Jamal Walker etc.  Butler was in the conference and rebuilding (later with Barry Collier as coach).  So, Eville's issues aren't all because it moved to MVC.  So, I'm not sure that is the strongest comparison to where we are now or will be.  We need to be competing against like minded schools that helps raise our competitiveness.  Remember there were a lot less D1 schools in those days too.

[VU2014]

I'm very happy to be in the MVC and I don't think I'll ever want Valpo to go back to the HL or SL. It's just a losers mentality to me.

Exact same thinking that SLU uses to stay in the A10 as of now and not move back to the MVC. They truly hope they can improve to the BE but the Billikens realize they are not near that quality of a program and will need to build up to that quality. As will Valpo have to build up to the quality of the MVC.

I get your point but it's a bit of a different situation. The MVC is much closer in level of competition to the A10 then the HL is to the MVC. (A10 is still has a few more higher end teams then the MVC but MVC has a better RPI this season). Plus the geography is just much more suitable to the MVC for them. Their closest "rival" is Dayton who is 400 miles away. There are natural rivals in the MVC. If I'm the Big East I'd rather have Dayton then SLU. SLU offers a new TV market but the BE's games are already on nationally televised on FS1 anyways and it's not like SLU has as many fans as a Missouri or something.

I think Valpo has been good enough to always be in the MVC the last 7 years and even during different stretches in the last 20-25 years or so but we are in "rebuild", after graduating 3 pros. I honestly think Valpo's previous 2 team teams would put a whooping on many of this season MVC teams and would have a great shot to win the league. People need to stop being prisoners of the moment with this current team struggling, largely do to youth and inexperience (and losing Joe Burton midseason).

We need the coaches to land more stud recruits and continue to develop this young group. After this season we'll have a great opportunity with having 2 upperclassmen 7 footers & Fazekas coming in.

[VU2014]

Wow... https://twitter.com/andyevans16/status/955861270955286529

[VUGrad1314]

Do you think this helps or hurts their case that VU's departure caused damage to their league and VU therefore owes the HL money? I have to admit that issue has been on my mind a lot lately. I wonder what the latest on that is. Will it impact our membership in the MVC?

[valpo64]

One team ruins the entire League when they leave?  That sure doesn't say much about the remaining teams, does it?   Maybe we were the glue of the League as they always had someone to  complain about.  Now that we are gone there isn't much left for a poorly run Conference on which to hang their hat. It really makes me chuckle and glad we left for a significant upgrade to The Valley.

[VUGrad1314]

Come to think of it the Valley lost a much better team and is Somehow arguably better than it was. Granted they received a much better program in return than the Horizon League did but maybe you're right to bring up the superior leadership structure and operations of the MVC as compared to the Horizon League

[VU2014]

Do you think this helps or hurts their case that VU's departure caused damage to their league

I think it's undeniable that losing Valpo has been a big blow to that conference. Valpo would have been in rebuild regardless but we still would have given that conference some respectability. But it's really just a perfect storm for how bad that conference is.
-losing Valpo
-OU not being as good as expected or should be
-coaching changes
-replacing VU with a bottom-feeding D1 team in IUPUI
-Steve McClain can't coach that UIC team that has so much talent (it's been better of late the point still stands)
-Too many bottom feeding teams in that Conference

and VU therefore owes the HL money? I have to admit that issue has been on my mind a lot lately.

It's debatable if we owe them any $, because our unique entry-fee into the Horizon League. Also we had a different membership agreement from the rest of the league. There is a legal debate to be had. The Evansville judge dismissed the case going to trial down there and it has been moved to Porter County where it always should have been settled.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/horizonvalparaiso-lawsuit/
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/valpo-lawsuit-update/

I wonder what the latest on that is. Will it impact our membership in the MVC?

Why would it impact our membership status in the MVC? We're already a member of the Missouri Valley Conference.