NCAA College Basketball Talk

[crusaderjoe]

A national outlet finally stumbles upon something we've known here for a long time.... Butler fans are ranked the second-most obnoxious in all of college hoops

https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/worst-college-basketball-fans

At least they are ranked and have fans. i.e., a rowdy student section and raucous white haired septugenarian fanatics.

Why is that?

Why isn't Valpo abnoxious?

Why isn't Valpo intense?

Valpo  is a small college aching to be big-time. Why aren't we doing everything possible to get there? At least from an environment perspective.

There is a difference between being intense/having a rowdy student and being obnoxious.

I'm sure our former Horizon League member consider us "obnoxious". I'm sure all Horizon League fans pre-2012 remember Butler fans attitude. I'm just so damn tired of hearing the butler way BS. No there is no way. They hired amazing coach in Brad Stevens and caught fire and road that momentum to a invite to the big east. I'm not taking anything away from them because they do have a strong program.

To be fair, Barry Collier and his 2 for 1 mentality would like a word with you.

In 1989-90 Butler was 6-22.  In 1989-90, Valpo was 4-24.  Where is each program now?

[VU2014]

I didn't say we matched their success. I was just pointing out that without Brad Stevens that program is probably either in the A10 or MVC. They literally caught fire and road that momentum into a Big East invite. A lot of circumstance went into it also because they did it all in the era of realignment. They developed a strong coaching tree that started with Barry. Butler also had/has an administration that really throws it's weight behind their program. Valpo can't say the same... our admin squandered any and all momentum after the sweet 16 run and just basically hoped Homer could work his magic again with out really investing in the program.

[vu72]

I didn't say we matched their success. I was just pointing out that without Brad Stevens that program is probably either in the A10 or MVC. They literally caught fire and road that momentum into a Big East invite. A lot of circumstance went into it also because they did it all in the era of realignment. They developed a strong coaching tree that started with Barry. Butler also had/has an administration that really throws it's weight behind their program. Valpo can't say the same... our admin squandered any and all momentum after the sweet 16 run and just basically hoped Homer could work his magic again with out really investing in the program.

Stevens yes, though you still need the players.  Bryce beat him a few times and Bryce isn't coaching in the NBA.  What really happened is having two NBA players plus Matt Howard on the same team.  They have had really good players since but not NBA level good.  They play a very solid style of basketball that is hard to defeat by a bunch of point.  As far as commitment, it is far easier to be committed when you are getting your share of the NCAA pie from the Big East versus the Horizon.

[a3uge]

If only the ARC's seats were more comfy and the bathrooms were nicer, Valpo would be in the Big East right now.

[VU2014]

If only the ARC's seats were more comfy and the bathrooms were nicer, Valpo would be in the Big East right now.

If only the ARC received a face lift it could impress recruits more... there is a reason the Drews were asking for ARC renovations...

[EddieCabot]

I didn't say we matched their success. I was just pointing out that without Brad Stevens that program is probably either in the A10 or MVC. They literally caught fire and road that momentum into a Big East invite. A lot of circumstance went into it also because they did it all in the era of realignment. They developed a strong coaching tree that started with Barry. Butler also had/has an administration that really throws it's weight behind their program. Valpo can't say the same... our admin squandered any and all momentum after the sweet 16 run and just basically hoped Homer could work his magic again with out really investing in the program.

The program clearly road on Stephen's coattails.  As 2014 points out, they got really lucky with how the stars aligned. 

Somewhat similar to Valpo's recent history ... successful seasons under a great coach (Bryce) and an NBA star (along with several other pros) helped get Valpo into the MVC when Wichita decided to bolt.  Timing was right.

[VU2014]

A very true statement. A moment like UMBC had last night could change the Universities fortunes as a whole. They'll be receiving application boost next season. Success in D1 men's basketball and FBS football can really have a strong impact on a University if the school is willing to responsibly in invest in a program.

We are never going to go make the leap to FBS football or probably ever full scholarship FCS, but we our Men's Basketball program does have the chance to make that type of impact if we invest in the program.

https://twitter.com/byesline/status/974857221837238272

[a3uge]

A very true statement. A moment like UMBC had last night could change the Universities fortunes as a whole. They'll be receiving application boost next season. Success in D1 men's basketball and FBS football can really have a strong impact on a University if the school is willing to responsibly in invest in a program.

We are never going to go make the leap to FBS football or probably ever full scholarship FCS, but we our Men's Basketball program does have the chance to make that type of impact if we invest in the program.

https://twitter.com/byesline/status/974857221837238272

UMBC's success seems to have nothing to do with budgets or investing in basketball, considering they were a 16 seed.

[VU2014]

They have an opportunity to build off this. Yes, UMBC's administration did invest in the program...

'All grown up': UMBC invests in athletics with $85 million Event Center
By: Libby SolomonContact Reporter
Catonsville Times
January 31, 2018

A fan seated in the uppermost rows of the new arena at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County will get a sweeping view of $85 million of gray and gold and glass.

After buying popcorn from a full-size concession stand, the fan will watch from one of 5,000 seats as a team of UMBC athletes — its Division I basketball or volleyball players — competes atop a wooden floor that can be pulled off its concrete base and stacked up like an enormous jigsaw puzzle.

......

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-county/catonsville/ph-ca-at-umbc-event-center-0131-story.html

[VULB#62]

They have an opportunity to build off this. Yes, UMBC's administration did invest in the program...

'All grown up': UMBC invests in athletics with $85 million Event Center
By: Libby SolomonContact Reporter
Catonsville Times
January 31, 2018

A fan seated in the uppermost rows of the new arena at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County will get a sweeping view of $85 million of gray and gold and glass.

After buying popcorn from a full-size concession stand, the fan will watch from one of 5,000 seats as a team of UMBC athletes — its Division I basketball or volleyball players — competes atop a wooden floor that can be pulled off its concrete base and stacked up like an enormous jigsaw puzzle.

......

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-county/catonsville/ph-ca-at-umbc-event-center-0131-story.html

Pretty much all of the rationale for that investment (and the immediate benefits already coming in) in one short article. Do you think they used the construction and the architect drawings while recruiting the present team  . But it still comes down to good coaching as welll - note the women are not reaping its benefits..... yet.

[Just Sayin]

Amazing there is still mileage on these old tires:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-mike-hutton-column-st-0318-20180317-story.html

[VU2014]

 

I was a big Purdue fan just for today. 

https://twitter.com/BoilerBall/status/975438457706352641

[justducky]

I was a big Purdue fan just for today.

I felt a little guilty about it but with Haas out I was leaning toward Purdue as well. 

[VU2014]

Amen.

https://twitter.com/kj_franko/status/975166573236367360

[valpo64]

Remember thast every year the NCAA tourney hs one or two Mid-majors that get white hot at tourney time then go away in the years that follow....George Mason comes to mind.

[valpopal]

Not only has Loyola made it to the Sweet Sixteen, but their chances of moving on to the Elite Eight (and getting more money for the league) may have improved with 7-seed Nevada's upset of 2-seed Cincinnati. The MVC representative is still in the tournament, but look at this list with ten of the teams that already have been sent home: North Carolina, Virginia, Michigan State, Arizona, Tennessee, Xavier, Ohio State, Florida, Auburn, and Butler. I love March Madness! 

[VU2014]

As of right now they've made about $500,000 for each member of the conference by making it to the Sweet 16.

[justducky]

Not only has Loyola made it to the Sweet Sixteen, but their chances of moving on to the Elite Eight (and getting more money for the league) may have improved with 7-seed Nevada's upset of 2-seed Cincinnati.

The 6 man Nevada rotation is interesting. How they play such good defense without fouling is a testament to their discipline. They shouldn't have gotten by Cincinnati. 

On paper I love Loyola's chances but nothing this tournament season has made any logical sense. The fact that the winner will face the Kentucky (5)- Kansas St (9) winner opens the door of opportunity even further.

[agibson]

As of right now they've made about $500,000 for each member of the conference by making it to the Sweet 16.

It's something like that, but maybe not quite that much, and over six years (this year and five more), right?

So, a nice boost, but I guess one year's wins don't make a huge impact on a program's budget. Now, if the Valley can keep it up over the next seasons...

[Updated a couple of times, with better info.]

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/03/19/us/ap-bkc-ncaa-tournament-units.html
has some current numbers and even Valley specifics (but do they get the part wrong about not getting a unit for making it into the first game?).

Sounds like the Valley divides thing into probably 10.5 shares, with somehow the NCAA/traveling team getting a bonus.

The Times is estimating $1.7M for the conference, over six years, for each win. (I suspect that's _an additional_ $1.7M, but they seem to say it differently.)

So, for two wins, something like $35k/year for Valpo. Not going to turn it down, but it doesn't by itself have a big impact on the budget.

Anyway, hopefully the Valley keeps it up, and continues to earn multiple units per year, as has been the tradition.  (An extra $200k per year? That'd be a nice little boost. But still less than ten percent.)

[M]

So have they earned 3 units now since they will be guaranteed to play in 3 games?  Extra money is a beautiful thing.  It's no wonder these bigger conferences squeeze out the mids to get as many teams as possible in this tournament.

Does the NIT give out anything (I'm guessing not since teams decline to participate)?

[FWalum]

As of right now they've made about $500,000 for each member of the conference by making it to the Sweet 16.

It's something like that, but maybe not quite that much, and over six years (this year and five more), right?

So, a nice boost, but I guess one year's wins don't make a huge impact on a program's budget. Now, if the Valley can keep it up over the next seasons...

[Updated a couple of times, with better info.]

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/03/19/us/ap-bkc-ncaa-tournament-units.html
has some current numbers and even Valley specifics (but do they get the part wrong about not getting a unit for making it into the first game?).

Sounds like the Valley divides thing into probably 10.5 shares, with somehow the NCAA/traveling team getting a bonus.

The Times is estimating $1.7M for the conference, over six years, for each win. (I suspect that's _an additional_ $1.7M, but they seem to say it differently.)

So, for two wins, something like $35k/year for Valpo. Not going to turn it down, but it doesn't by itself have a big impact on the budget.

Anyway, hopefully the Valley keeps it up, and continues to earn multiple units per year, as has been the tradition.  (An extra $200k per year? That'd be a nice little boost. But still less than ten percent.)

Easier to decipher from this website.
How Much Money Each NCAA Tournament Team Earned for Their Conference (through round 2)

Looks like right now Loyola has earned $4,914,000 for the MVC so if we are using agibson's numbers of 10.5 shares with Loyola getting 1.5 shares and the other teams getting 1 share, VU's share would be $78,000 per year for 6 years.

[agibson]

Easier to decipher from this website.
How Much Money Each NCAA Tournament Team Earned for Their Conference (through round 2)

Looks like right now Loyola has earned $4,914,000 for the MVC so if we are using agibson's numbers of 10.5 shares with Loyola getting 1.5 shares and the other teams getting 1 share, VU's share would be $78,000 per year for 6 years.

Yep, that's easier. And is consistent with my recollection that being _in_ the tournament definitely gets you a unit (as does winning play-in games). Not sure why the NY Times seems to contradict that.

All it needs is a cumulative/historical list, so you can see how much money each league/team will collect this year.

I'm surprised if the Valley offices don't take a cut (like the Horizon offices did/do), but the NY Times piece had a chance to mention that and didn't.

[valpo64]

Wow!  And let's see, what is the HL going to share with their members?  Oh yes , and Oakland, with that powerhouse team this year they went..............aahhh, oh yes, down the tubes.

[crusader05]

Will Valpo have access to any money left over from Wichita States runs over the last several years? I thought I remember us being exempt this first year but wasn't sure if that would continue

[EddieCabot]

Wow!  And let's see, what is the HL going to share with their members?  Oh yes , and Oakland, with that powerhouse team this year they went..............aahhh, oh yes, down the tubes.

Down the tubes, indeed.  Without a premier program like Valpo, I predict the HL will be earning the minimum shares for years to come.  They got out just in time!