NCAA College Basketball Talk

[M]

The HL has only earned minimum shares every year recently except for those two Butler runs. 

[vu72]

Wow!  And let's see, what is the HL going to share with their members?  Oh yes , and Oakland, with that powerhouse team this year they went..............aahhh, oh yes, down the tubes.

Down the tubes, indeed.  Without a premier program like Valpo, I predict the HL will be earning the minimum shares for years to come.  They got out just in time!

And the quality of the teams adds to the ultimate reality that getting more then one share is really hard when your best team gets a 14 seed while in some conferences you can finish tied for sixth and still get a 10 seed. A lot easier to win a game from the 10 versus the 14 or 15.

[agibson]

The HL has only earned minimum shares every year recently except for those two Butler runs. 

And Cleveland State the year before. But, yeah.

[agibson]

Will Valpo have access to any money left over from Wichita States runs over the last several years? I thought I remember us being exempt this first year but wasn't sure if that would continue

I don't know that I've seen the details for the Valley. But, I think it's common for teams to lose their shares when they leave. And, I bet it's also common (maybe true in the Horizon?) for teams to only get money for the units earned while they were around. So, it might be that even with the Loyola wins we get _less_ money this year than if we'd stayed in the Horizon. Only because we'd have had 5 years of old minimum units in the Horizon, but no years of old units in the Valley, just this year of 3+ units. (OK, I guess if Loyola gets to the championship we can break even.) But this is conjecture.

[VU2010]

Much can be learned from UMBC from this tournament. How many across the country, dare I say world, knew who they were a couple weeks ago? What did they do? They made their presence known through entering the history books. How? Tenacity. Resilience. Heart.

What else did I notice? Their social media presence. Their twitter handle. We have how many communication majors? Professors? Make it a priority to improve our brand. We're not just "the shot" any longer, are we? That was 20 years ago. Bryce moved on.

Did you watch Loyola's coach? His involvement in the student body? What's our MO? Who are we?

Did you notice, going back to UMBC, what they said about their new athletic facility? How they're looking forward to seeing people there for the 2018-2019 season? How they're looking for a sponsor?

Come on, people. The definition of insanity, as Einstein declared, is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.

Who are we? What are we known for? Our program's only legacy is aging like the ARC. It's soon going to be left behind. People move on. New shots are made. New one shining moments.

What did UMBC do? They are creating their own shining moment. But, they made a bold investment into the infrastructure BEFORE winning tournament games. Before!

Who are we? Will we rally to be part of the new Valpo era? Look at the conference we're in! Rise up!

Look at what UMBC did. They are using this as a platform to catapult them! What about us? What about VU?

[FieldGoodie05]

So do we read into the lack of news on outbound transfers from Valpo as a positive?  Too early?

When do the kids come back from spring break?

[M]

They are back now. I don't know the answers to the other questions.

[VU2014]

Northwestern just lost it's top recruiter for the Chicagoland area in Armon Gates. He had a cup of coffee at TCU, before taking a job on Loyola's staff in 2011 and left to join the Northwestern staff in 2013. Who was the Coach that replaced him on Loyola's staff? Emanuel Dildy. I haven't heard anything but I'd imagine his name would be discussed as a possible replacement for Gates. I'd think they're going to pursue a coach with experience and strong recruiting ties to the CPL. I want to emphasize this is just speculation on my part.

https://twitter.com/joehoopsreport/status/983110697537232896

[VU75]

Emanuel Dildy. I haven't heard anything but I'd imagine his name would be discussed as a possible replacement for Gates. I'd think they're going to pursue a coach with experience and strong recruiting ties to the CPL. I want to emphasize this is just speculation on my part

Well,if that's what they are looking for, Tracy Dildy was let go at Chicago State so he is available.

[VUGrad1314]

Have a look at this nonconference schedule... WKU putting in work.

https://twitter.com/BradBGDN/status/984171956747538435?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sycamorepride.com%2Fshowthread.php%3F39535-2018-2019-Basketball-Schedule%2Fpage2

[VU2014]

Saint Mary's playing on the road?

[VU2014]

Wow big time offer for Trace. He's a former VHS player who is attending prep school at Don Bosco. He has really upped his stock  since High School. Good for him. Hard work pays off.

http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/trace-ramsey

https://twitter.com/traceramsey_/status/987163489847382016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMmP5-ZQYZk&feature=youtu.be

[VUGrad1314]

Just saw yesterday that the PAC 12 is exploring the possibility of going to a 20 game conference schedule as soon as 2019 joining the Big 10 (effective this coming year) and the ACC (effective 2019) in doing so. The Big East has also explored the idea of adding a team (presumably UCONN) and doing the same. All of this is really bad news for mid majors as this is very likely to cause further realignment and scheduling issues. The need for added quality in conferences like the MVC is about to become critical. I hope Commissioner Elgin has a plan for this new era.

[FieldGoodie05]

Just saw yesterday that the PAC 12 is exploring the possibility of going to a 20 game conference schedule as soon as 2019 joining the Big 10 (effective this coming year) and the ACC (effective 2019) in doing so. The Big East has also explored the idea of adding a team (presumably UCONN) and doing the same. All of this is really bad news for mid majors as this is very likely to cause further realignment and scheduling issues. The need for added quality in conferences like the MVC is about to become critical. I hope Commissioner Elgin has a plan for this new era.

Say that the P6 all follow the leader to these "20 game" type schedules where mid majors are all but ignored in OOC.  And let's say 5-years elapse to where little to no mid majors get P6 OOC games.

How on earth does making the MVC harder to win by adding other quality mid majors help us?  I'm admittedly not a data savant, but we beat each other up and still get passed over for at large.

How are we ever going to get solid RPI / SOS etc if the experts are unable to rank any mid majors until tournament time?

I'm not seeing the big picture here, admittedly.  I want to better understand how a 12-team MVC ever gets an at-large bid in that landscape?  Or even a 10-team MVC for that matter.

The way I see it, forget OOC at that point because it's a fart in the wind.  Let's destroy each other in conference and send a MVC Sweet 16 team nearly every year.  That's the only way, over time, that attitudes change and get a MVC level conference with semi regular at large.  Is this why you want 12-teams?  So we can get no at large bids for the (let's say) 6-years it takes to make a dent in the national scene with that scenario?

I think OOC scheduling to get at-large bid consideration is a thing of the past at this point.

[VULB#62]

Ignorant questions for tbe guys on the board who are clued in and really, really BB super-savy:  Why is the A-10 always a multi-bid league and the MVC is not?  Why is the WCC always a multi-bid conference and the MVC is not? The top two in each of those conferences would be sucking wind playing in the MVC.

[VUGrad1314]

The WCC is a multi-bid league (most years ) because of one word: Gonzaga That team is so strong so good and so dominant that one win against them which is usually all SMC and BYU can manage is good enough to cover a lot of holes in a team's resume which is why SMC could afford those dog-crap schedules. Split with the Zags and win 25-27 games and you're golden. Take away the Bulldogs and that league likely never achieves multibid status again.

The A10's word is scheduling. Plain and simple the A10 flat out outscheduled the MVC after Creighton left the Valley and the scheduling mandate was withdrawn . They also frequently did well against those tougher schedules and were rewarded with bids creating the perception of a stronger league. The A-10 frequently found itself between 7-9 in conf. SOS while the Valley often checked in at 11-13. This year although the MVC as a whole did a better job  URI and St Bonaventure were able to get in despite losses to Davidson because of their strong nonconference resumes while Loyola would have missed out because their schedule was weak. Davidson being a strong addition to offset the losses of Butler and Xavier also helped.

Perception is the word that has dogged the MVC after the departure of Creighton and that continued to be the case before Loyola's run this year. The perception was that the MVC was driven by Wichita State in a manner similar to how Gonzaga drives the WCC. In a few years UNI was able to play the role of a stronger more ambitious SMC which furnished the Valley with a second bid some years but the weak schedules and poor play at the bottom of the conference were often too much to overcome. The Shockers seemingly inexhaustible resources compared to other schools in the conference  also sapped the desire of these teams to compete knowing the best they could do was second place and maybe the NIT. In some ways the conference brought that on themselves. Add to it the fact that Loyola took so long to get going after they replaced Creighton and a perception was created that the MVC would not survive without its flagship members. The committee saw these things and rightly or wrongly bought into that perception which created an uphill battle for the MVC. Hopefully we'll all remain strong and competitive and Loyola's run opened some eyes in a meaningful way. However I suspect we'll have to make another run or two before the committee finally adjusts to the new reality of the strong MVC worthy of multiple bids.

[VULB#62]

Quite a summarry. Thanks. Makes sense. But I still wonder how the #2 WCC (SMC) gets an at large while a #2 to WSU (Illinois State) gets zilch in 2017. Wasn't ISU at least equal to the #3 A10 school?

[a3uge]

Ignorant questions for tbe guys on the board who are clued in and really, really BB super-savy:  Why is the A-10 always a multi-bid league and the MVC is not?  Why is the WCC always a multi-bid conference and the MVC is not? The top two in each of those conferences would be sucking wind playing in the MVC.

The MVC typically isn't as good of a conference as the A10, which makes sense because the top top teams have bigger budgets. The bigger budgets allow them to play 60% of their ooc games at home, while the MVC only plays around 40% at home. This past year the MVC was a great conference, but everyone played each other evenly, so everyone's RPIs hovered around 100, so no team could get the covetted Top 50 Winz that the selection committee seems to only care about.

[VUGrad1314]

Quite a summarry. Thanks. Makes sense. But I still wonder how the #2 WCC (SMC) gets an at large while a #2 to WSU (Illinois State) gets zilch in 2017. Wasn't ISU at least equal to the #3 A10 school?

Yes they were in RPI URI was 31 ISUr was 33. However SOS matters too. ISUr clocked in at 124 to URI's 55. SMC was 75 that year (RPI 17) and had a win over Gonzaga (RPI 8). Wichita State's was 32 (SOS 140).

Conference SOS rankings that year:

WCC:7
A10: 8
MVC:11

When the RPIs are close as they were that year 30-33 were Dayton URI WSU ISUr SOS REALLY matters. It's what doomed SMC this year  (SOS 169 WCC Conference SOS rank:12 RPI rank:13)

Yes the MVC beat the A10 in both, (8 vs 11 in RPI and 8 vs 9 in SOS) HOWEVER our strongest RPI team (Loyola) had a weak SOS (127) while our strongest SOS teams ISUr(55) UNI (73) and ISUb (88) all crapped the bed at inopportune times hurting their RPIs. Furthermore no MVC team except Loyola won more than 20 games while the top 3 in the A10 all beat that mark with URI and St Bonaventure each winning at least 25 games with SOS of 59 and 89 respectively).

This is why I've harped so much on scheduling. The ship carrying your chances of making the tournament is liable to sink if you can't put out a good, strong SOS.

[VUGrad1314]

Ignorant questions for tbe guys on the board who are clued in and really, really BB super-savy:  Why is the A-10 always a multi-bid league and the MVC is not?  Why is the WCC always a multi-bid conference and the MVC is not? The top two in each of those conferences would be sucking wind playing in the MVC.

The MVC typically isn't as good of a conference as the A10, which makes sense because the top top teams have bigger budgets. The bigger budgets allow them to play 60% of their ooc games at home, while the MVC only plays around 40% at home. This past year the MVC was a great conference, but everyone played each other evenly, so everyone's RPIs hovered around 100, so no team could get the covetted Top 50 Winz that the selection committee seems to only care about.

Budgets help but using that as the main reason is a cop-out. If I remember correctly Mark Adams tracked some 70 victories by smaller budget schools over big budget foes many of which came from our own MVC. You've got to schedule well and win to get in. The doorway through which mid majors must walk to get into the tournament is extremely narrow. Eat one too many cupcakes and you'll be too fat to get through. As your waistline expands your path gets narrower through an ever-shrinking margin for error which is already razor thin outside the P5\BE.

[a3uge]

Ignorant questions for tbe guys on the board who are clued in and really, really BB super-savy:  Why is the A-10 always a multi-bid league and the MVC is not?  Why is the WCC always a multi-bid conference and the MVC is not? The top two in each of those conferences would be sucking wind playing in the MVC.

The MVC typically isn't as good of a conference as the A10, which makes sense because the top top teams have bigger budgets. The bigger budgets allow them to play 60% of their ooc games at home, while the MVC only plays around 40% at home. This past year the MVC was a great conference, but everyone played each other evenly, so everyone's RPIs hovered around 100, so no team could get the covetted Top 50 Winz that the selection committee seems to only care about.

Budgets help but using that as the main reason is a cop-out. If I remember correctly Mark Adams tracked some 70 victories by smaller budget schools over big budget foes many of which came from our own MVC. You've got to schedule well and win to get in. The doorway through which mid majors must walk to get into the tournament is extremely narrow. Eat one too many cupcakes and you'll be too fat to get through. As your waistline expands your path gets narrower through an ever-shrinking margin for error which is already razor thin outside the P5\BE.

Scheduling harder means more losses for everyone. For example, if Evansville schedules road games vs Kentucky, Kansas, and North Carolina instead of home games vs Canisius, Binghamton, and Arkansas State, they'll be 0-3 in those games vs 3-0, which contributes negatively to the rest of the conference. The top teams should have at-large caliber schedules, but it's counterproductive for the middle and bottom half of the league to schedule more losses.

If you need a few good examples how scheduling changed the dynamic of a conference, look at the Horizon vs the MAC. The Horizon consistently had a top 10 OOC SOS while the MAC was usually bottom 3. The MAC's easier scheduling has allowed their teams to get better seeds than the Horizon's teams without actually being better or having a better resume.

[VUGrad1314]

Not if you schedule smartly and strategically for where your team is at (and you can do that without excessively indulging in creampuffs. There is NO REASON for ANY MVC team to play a bunch of Q4 games. To the best of our ability Q3 and above with no non-D1s should be the mandate. That shouldn't result in too many additional losses. I would never advocate for any MVC team to take multiple buy games against blue bloods. That's neither smart nor strategic.

[usc4valpo]

A twenty game schedule would be a wise choice for the conference of champions. Let's ask Bill Walton.

[VUGrad1314]

What makes a top mid major? Kevin Sweeney shares his thoughts:

https://cbbcentral.com/2018/05/12/nevada-showing-top-to-bottom-effort-necessary-to-become-elite/

[FieldGoodie05]

What makes a top mid major? Kevin Sweeney shares his thoughts:

https://cbbcentral.com/2018/05/12/nevada-showing-top-to-bottom-effort-necessary-to-become-elite/

University of Nevada is 21,000 students with a sizable endowment.  Like BYU, how are they even classified as a mid-major?  Forget conferences, Valpo will never reach that size or market size so next.....