Some Faculty Members are trying to get rid of the Crusader & Change the Mascot..

[usc4valpo]

wow, that will solve the big recent issues likes finances at Valpo! what a fricking waste...

[valpotx]

If they decide to poll alumni, any change to the Crusader probably won't go over well.  The word Crusader is a historical term, not a derogatory term, like the Redskins.  The Vikings (my ancestors) did a lot of abysmal things in their wars, would they be next?

Also, though I get why someone of the Muslim faith might not be happy about such a mascot, the Crusades were not just against Muslims, but also against Pagans.

[valpo tundra]

Stay tuned for an important announcement later this week.

[valpotx]

I don't fault them for potentially announcing a review of the name, but hopefully that review allows for a thorough analysis on impact to alumni, and not just the feelings of the moment.  Though I am sure that most folks will continue to donate, if you do something to upset even 1/4 of donations during this type of economy for institutions of higher learning, that could be catastrophic. 

[vu84v2]

I don't fault them for potentially announcing a review of the name, but hopefully that review allows for a thorough analysis on impact to alumni, and not just the feelings of the moment.  Though I am sure that most folks will continue to donate, if you do something to upset even 1/4 of donations during this type of economy for institutions of higher learning, that could be catastrophic. 

I agree with valpotx, but I think that there is another perspective that also needs to be considered. In an ideal world, people on all sides would present their positions in a respectful manner - recognizing that sustaining the institution is critical. While (as i have said before) I am not fond of the nickname, does anyone associated with the university really show behaviors or take actions that are discriminatory to Muslims? Unfortunately, the world is not ideal and I am afraid that a small percentage of people on both sides of this argument will move from making points to support their position to personally attacking those who disagree with them. Turmoil from personal attacks is more likely to draw local, regional and national attention, which could reduce potential students' interest in attending Valpo. Regardless of their position, they would not want to attend because they do not want to be in a situation with turmoil...and they have many other choices in which they perceive no turmoil. There is a time for this debate, but it is not during an existential crisis.

[usc4valpo]

Spending energy to debate or change the nickname at this time of crisis is truly dumb. It is time for people to get their priorities straight.

[crusader05]

My thought process is this:

What's the purpose of a mascot? Is it to be divisive and create conflict or is it to bring people together in pride and excitement. Is it to be fun or is it to be something that becomes a lightening rod that our political environment plays out over?

I've posted before that while the crusader never really bothered me (hence my name) over the past few years I've felt that it does not seem to be a big deal to me to have a different one   in light of others concerns about it.

People can disagree on whether or not the Crusader represents what it does and how much that should hold weight but isn't the fact that we're having this debate a sign that the mascot is not doing what it should for the university and it's alumna?

Some of the things said about people who support and those who want a change tell me it's mere presence at this point is causing more divisiveness and while every decision a university makes loses some people making the decision to change now is better than this place we are in now.

[valpo64]

What a waste of time!   Instead of spending time and worrying over changing the mascot/name,  faculty should spend that time improving their lesson plans so to be a more effective prof.

[valpopal]

Some of the things said about people who support and those who want a change tell me it's mere presence at this point is causing more divisiveness and while every decision a university makes loses some people making the decision to change now is better than this place we are in now.

This logic sounds like something I have heard recently elsewhere about statues of Columbus, Jefferson, Washington, Lincoln, St. Juniper Serra, etc. or the renaming of college buildings honoring past presidents, or now even the calls for removal of Mt. Rushmore. The manipulative tactic is to exploit any perceived reason for conflict and cause disruption so that the simple hope for avoidance of conflict becomes a reason for the majority capitulating to the change. It is a form of emotional extortion. No matter what the final decision, it should not be reached due to such coercive conditions.

[crusader05]

Deciding whether or not something is worth a fight and further conflict is absolutely part of decision making, compromise and a society in general.

Also, it avoids my point which is "what is the purpose of a mascot?"  Mascots change often, they evolve, sometimes for reasons due to what we would consider political sometimes not. But the question if  something that is supposed to be fun and uniting isn't and questioning whether that means it's not serving its purpose is not "coercive" or emotional extortion. In fact using phrases such heavily loaded phrases liked coercive and extortion rather than actually respond to my point about mascots is interesting if you are concerned about manipulation.

We are currently talking about a mascot, not Mount Rushmore, I'd imagine that the stakes are much higher for the latter than the former and therefore would require a different type of conversation. Most arguments for and against things have shades of similar phrasing, that doesn't mean they are not meaningful or important to consider depending on the  situations.

[valpopal]

Deciding whether or not something is worth a fight and further conflict is absolutely part of decision making

I agree completely. That was my point, which is why I focused on the tactic of exploiting conflict and causing disruption as a form of emotional extortion. The manipulation is a creation of such conditions to the point that the other side deems it is not "worth a fight and further conflict," and therefore capitulates. I am not arguing one position or another. I am objecting to the majority succumbing on the basis of this calculated strategy.

[valpo95]

Here's my two cents:

There are good arguments for changing the mascot, and good arguments for keeping it. (In particular, there are positives with being crusader, a person or group who advocates for political, social, or religious change in society.) I also don't believe there is anything inherently wrong with the mascot, at least no more than anything inherently wrong someone being described as a crusader for mental health, a crusader against drunk driving, or any other positive ways this word has been used in the past.

Previously, I probably would have advocated for maintaining the name - as a student I remember being supportive of the name. However, my thinking has changed over time and I'm fine if the University decides to go in a different direction.

I have a "Valparaiso Crusaders" t-shirt that was given to me as a gift some years ago. The "Valparaiso" part is in small letters and is in light gold, which doesn't show up very well on a white-t shirt. The "Crusader" part is in a large font in dark brown, and pretty visible. In some instances, especially in recent years, I have not worn that t-shirt to some events because I don't want to give offense to someone, for example my colleague from Turkey would have no idea about the Valparaiso Crusaders yet knows of the crusades; it is just not worth it to possibly give offense to him or his family. In the last year or so, I have been even more careful with it because I don't want some idiot causing trouble, especially if my two young daughters are with me. Now, I still wear that shirt at times, I'm still proud of my University and don't think the mascot has been a major issue in the life of Valpo. Yet if I (or anyone else) has to think about how not to give offense to someone, or worry about someone taking it the wrong way because of a nickname/mascot, then it is probably time to transition to another one that doesn't need explanation or context.

[usc4valpo]

I don't really care if they change the mascot name, I just think it is a waste of energy.  If Valpo does not take care of their current financial situation, the decision of a mascot is a moot point. Professors and students need to focus on keeping the university strong and out of a cash sink, especially during these trying times.

[FieldGoodie05]

I don't really care if they change the mascot name, I just think it is a waste of energy.  If Valpo does not take care of their current financial situation, the decision of a mascot is a moot point. Professors and students need to focus on keeping the university strong and out of a cash sink, especially during these trying times.

Amen brother on all points!

[mj]

The fact that Valpo is considering changing mascot, while at the same time considering cutting the social work department is proof the university has their priorities backwards. 

[Pgmado]

What a waste of time!   Instead of spending time and worrying over changing the mascot/name,  faculty should spend that time improving their lesson plans so to be a more effective prof.

As if collegiate professors were only capable of accomplishing one thing in a lifetime.

[Pgmado]

I don't really care if they change the mascot name, I just think it is a waste of energy.  If Valpo does not take care of their current financial situation, the decision of a mascot is a moot point. Professors and students need to focus on keeping the university strong and out of a cash sink, especially during these trying times.

There's a professor at the university who has said that changing the nickname will bring in more students, which would help make the university strong and "out of a cash sink."

[a3uge]

I don't really care if they change the mascot name, I just think it is a waste of energy.  If Valpo does not take care of their current financial situation, the decision of a mascot is a moot point. Professors and students need to focus on keeping the university strong and out of a cash sink, especially during these trying times.

There's a professor at the university who has said that changing the nickname will bring in more students, which would help make the university strong and "out of a cash sink."

I hope they're not a math or economics professor

[usc4valpo]

Perhaps I am missing something and would like to hear this strategy.

[vu84v2]

I don't really care if they change the mascot name, I just think it is a waste of energy.  If Valpo does not take care of their current financial situation, the decision of a mascot is a moot point. Professors and students need to focus on keeping the university strong and out of a cash sink, especially during these trying times.

There's a professor at the university who has said that changing the nickname will bring in more students, which would help make the university strong and "out of a cash sink."

With no data or empirical analysis to support that claim. Additionally, if one makes that claim one also would need to include the cost of changing the name in the model and would need to include the degree that it changes the financial situation. Again, I am not fond of the mascot/nickname, but arguments without foundation do not help.

[FWalum]

Perhaps I am missing something and would like to hear this strategy.

Union Street Hoops "The Mascot Episode" Union Street Hoops episode from July 3rd.

[vu84v2]

FWalum - Thank you for posting. I had never listened to one of those podcasts. Paul may be a bit rambling, but he really does a great job of bringing out an honest discussion.

I truly appreciate Sami's comments and his devotion to the university. Professors like him are what makes Valpo great.

That said, there are a few issues with some of the arguments made in the podcast (note, again, that I am not fond of the mascot/nickname).
-People on the Facebook page say that they will donate money to Valpo to support the change. To what degree? 100 people each donating $100 would be a small fraction of the cost. Additionally, would donations be in addition to other donations or would they just be donations that are now targeted to changing the nickname/mascot that would have gone elsewhere.
-I really do not think that the major donors are going to not donate money if the university changes the mascot/nickname. Their motivation for their substantial donations are for far greater reasons.
-Sami makes the argument that 50% of potential students who he talks with who are Muslim are immediately turned off when they hear the nickname/mascot - so Valpo is losing potential students. This may well be true. However, if one makes that economic (not values based) argument, then one also needs to consider how many potential students might not consider Valpo because of the name change or the turmoil associated with people not respecting each others' views (as Paul mentioned is already happening on the Facebook page). Prospective students are not going to choose Valpo because of the mascot/nickname (as Paul states), but they will avoid Valpo if they perceive a divided environment where those with opposing views are not respected - and that could have major financial impacts.

[vu72]

FWalum - Thank you for posting. I had never listened to one of those podcasts. Paul may be a bit rambling, but he really does a great job of bringing out an honest discussion.

I truly appreciate Sami's comments and his devotion to the university. Professors like him are what makes Valpo great.

That said, there are a few issues with some of the arguments made in the podcast (note, again, that I am not fond of the mascot/nickname).
-People on the Facebook page say that they will donate money to Valpo to support the change. To what degree? 100 people each donating $100 would be a small fraction of the cost. Additionally, would donations be in addition to other donations or would they just be donations that are now targeted to changing the nickname/mascot that would have gone elsewhere.
-I really do not think that the major donors are going to not donate money if the university changes the mascot/nickname. Their motivation for their substantial donations are for far greater reasons.
-Sami makes the argument that 50% of potential students who he talks with who are Muslim are immediately turned off when they hear the nickname/mascot - so Valpo is losing potential students. This may well be true. However, if one makes that economic (not values based) argument, then one also needs to consider how many potential students might not consider Valpo because of the name change or the turmoil associated with people not respecting each others' views (as Paul mentioned is already happening on the Facebook page). Prospective students are not going to choose Valpo because of the mascot/nickname (as Paul states), but they will avoid Valpo if they perceive a divided environment where those with opposing views are not respected - and that could have major financial impacts.

If you listen, you'll hear Sami say he "has no idea why the Christians invaded"  One sided?

[valpopal]

FWalum - Thank you for posting. I had never listened to one of those podcasts. Paul may be a bit rambling, but he really does a great job of bringing out an honest discussion.

I truly appreciate Sami's comments and his devotion to the university. Professors like him are what makes Valpo great.

If you listen, you'll hear Sami say he "has no idea why the Christians invaded"  One sided?

Sami is a fine professor. However, although he wants to get rid of the Valpo mascot, if you go to Sami's Facebook page, you will see he is a fan of the Cleveland Indians and proudly has an image of Chief Wahoo in his banner photo. 

[VALPO LI]

Looks like Valpo is not alone in this debate.
These Schools all dropped the Crusader Mascot.
Wheaton College (2000).
Point Loma Nazarene University (2002).
University of Incarnate Word (now ncaa D1) dropped the name in (2004).
Clarke University (2007).
Eastern Nazarene College (2009).
Susquehanna University (2016).
Northwest Nazarene University (2017).

Capital University a Lutheran university outside of Columbus OH with just over 3,300 students announced this month that they will drop their Crusader mascot as well.

https://www.dispatch.com/sports/20200713/capital-university-to-drop-rsquocrusadersrsquo-nickname-mascot-cappy