Possible Missouri Valley Conference Expansion

[VUGrad1314]

They need to be added immediately. There was no valid argument against them before and there's even less of one now. 11 or 12 shouldn't matter. Add whatever 12th you want just get Murray State in.

[VULB#62]

80-52 final.  Murray raced away with it. At Carbondale.

[justducky]

Over on MVCFANS forum they have started a thread titled "Our League Is Braindead".    Wonder what that could be about?

[a3uge]

Over on MVCFANS forum they have started a thread titled "Our League Is Braindead".    Wonder what that could be about?

Yes, the mvc is what's preventing their program from reaching the sweet 16

[may know]

That thread is bang-on.

[SanityLost17]

In case they MVC board turns that into a thread about how they should have picked Murray instead of us....

http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2014-15/14166/crusaders-explode-in-win-over-murray-state/

Murray was pretty good that year.... I think they had like a 15 game win streak after we beat them by 30+

[vu84v2]

I personally would love to see Murray State in the MVC and see the strengthening of schedule (by going to more conference games) as more valuable than the cost of sharing NCAA tournament revenues across 11 or 12 teams.

However, there is one factor regarding Murray State that has not been discussed here. The travel to Murray State is far from ideal, because Murray is remote. You either fly into Paducah (from Chicago, I guess) and drive 45 minutes or you fly into Nashville and drive two hours.  It is a two hour drive from Carbondale, which may be the most remote school in the Valley now. For some schools, bus will be the only option to get to Murray (five hour drive from Illinois State, Bradley, Missouri State and nine hour drive from Drake).

[VUGrad1314]

I personally would love to see Murray State in the MVC and see the strengthening of schedule (by going to more conference games) as more valuable than the cost of sharing NCAA tournament revenues across 11 or 12 teams. However, there is one factor regarding Murray State that has not been discussed here. The travel to Murray State is far from ideal, because Murray is remote. You either fly into Paducah (from Chicago, I guess) and drive 45 minutes or you fly into Nashville and drive two hours.  It is a two hour drive from Carbondale, which may be the most remote school in the Valley now. For some schools, bus will be the only option to get to Murray (five hour drive from Illinois State, Bradley, Missouri State and nine hour drive from Drake).

Those schools need to suck it up. Our league needs this.

[a3uge]

Got to admire the entitlement of MVC fans who've done the impressive act of exist in the same conference as Wichita State for years.

[VUGrad1314]

Got to admire the entitlement of MVC fans who've done the impressive act of exist in the same conference as Wichita State for years.

What do you mean?

[may know]

For all your spouting off on others, a3uge, did you even bother to read the thread?

It's nothing like you describe.

[VUGrad1314]

Exactly. There hasn't been one anti-Valpo post in there. I've read every one and posted in it. They're right: Not adding Murray State at the time was a colossally stupid error that needs to be rectified immediately. That's not a  swipe at Valpo or a belief that Valpo was a bad addition (trust me I'm very sensitive to that kind of stuff) it's a simple statement of fact: Murray State should have been added. Not over Valpo but alongside.

If anything it's a swipe at Loyola for giving them five years of suck and contributing to the running off of Wichita State before finally paying off. Or at Belmont for being a bunch of chickens or at their own university presidents\ADs who voted down the original idea of 11 with Valpo and Murray. Rothstein and Norlander didn't pull that report out of their cabooses. It had to come from somewhere. I think a Valpo\Murray combo was Elgin's original plan and the presidents told him no so he went with Valpo as the school that would make the most people happy. He then left open the idea of expansion because he wants Murray really badly as well.

It's up to the presidents (especially those who voted against the Valpo\Murray proposal the first time) to get off their high horses, make a sacrifice for the good of the league for once instead of just taking all the time, pony up the extra dollars, figure out the scheduling, admit their mistake  and just get it done already. It's past time for the Racers to join the MVC. The survival and viability of the MVC as a highly competitive basketball league that can garner at large bids may just depend on this.

[a3uge]

Exactly. There hasn't been one anti-Valpo post in there. I've read every one and posted in it. They're right: Not adding Murray State at the time was a colossally stupid error that needs to be rectified immediately. That's not a  swipe at Valpo or a belief that Valpo was a bad addition (trust me I'm very sensitive to that kind of stuff) it's a simple statement of fact: Murray State should have been added. Not over Valpo but alongside.

If anything it's a swipe at Loyola for giving them five years of suck and contributing to the running off of Wichita State before finally paying off. Or at Belmont for being a bunch of chickens or at their own university presidents\ADs who voted down the original idea of 11 with Valpo and Murray. Rothstein and Norlander didn't pull that report out of their cabooses. It had to come from somewhere. I think a Valpo\Murray combo was Elgin's original plan and the presidents told him no so he went with Valpo as the school that would make the most people happy. He then left open the idea of expansion because he wants Murray really badly as well.

It's up to the presidents (especially those who voted against the Valpo\Murray proposal the first time) to get off their high horses, make a sacrifice for the good of the league for once instead of just taking all the time, pony up the extra dollars, figure out the scheduling, admit their mistake  and just get it done already. It's past time for the Racers to join the MVC. The survival and viability of the MVC as a highly competitive basketball league that can garner at large bids may just depend on this.

I didn't say it was a swipe at Valpo, although you can find plenty of those in threads predating the conference switch. Calling the MVC braindead is stupid, since the addition of Murray Sate, Belmont, etc won't do anything for the other MVC programs. Adding Murray state means marginally better SOS, which is essentially useless because mid majors don't get at large bids anymore.

[VUGrad1314]

Exactly. There hasn't been one anti-Valpo post in there. I've read every one and posted in it. They're right: Not adding Murray State at the time was a colossally stupid error that needs to be rectified immediately. That's not a  swipe at Valpo or a belief that Valpo was a bad addition (trust me I'm very sensitive to that kind of stuff) it's a simple statement of fact: Murray State should have been added. Not over Valpo but alongside.

If anything it's a swipe at Loyola for giving them five years of suck and contributing to the running off of Wichita State before finally paying off. Or at Belmont for being a bunch of chickens or at their own university presidents\ADs who voted down the original idea of 11 with Valpo and Murray. Rothstein and Norlander didn't pull that report out of their cabooses. It had to come from somewhere. I think a Valpo\Murray combo was Elgin's original plan and the presidents told him no so he went with Valpo as the school that would make the most people happy. He then left open the idea of expansion because he wants Murray really badly as well.

It's up to the presidents (especially those who voted against the Valpo\Murray proposal the first time) to get off their high horses, make a sacrifice for the good of the league for once instead of just taking all the time, pony up the extra dollars, figure out the scheduling, admit their mistake  and just get it done already. It's past time for the Racers to join the MVC. The survival and viability of the MVC as a highly competitive basketball league that can garner at large bids may just depend on this.

I didn't say it was a swipe at Valpo, although you can find plenty of those in threads predating the conference switch. Calling the MVC braindead is stupid, since the addition of Murray Sate, Belmont, etc won't do anything for the other MVC programs. Adding Murray state means marginally better SOS, which is essentially useless because mid majors don't get at large bids anymore.

The A-10 which finished behind the MVC got 3 bids. The Mountain West  which also finished behind the MVC got 2 bids. Yet Loyola couldn't get over the goal line without winning Arch Madness? Sounds to me  like a scheduling\SOS problem  that perhaps a team like Murray State or a similar caliber addition could have helped alleviate. That "modest bump in SOS" probably could have made a difference to Valpo back in 2016 or Illinois State back in 2017 or a host of mids throughout history  who just missed. It's worth a lot more than you think and should not be dismissed so casually. If winning is the #1 factor  SOS  is 1A. 

[wh]

It only takes 2 at large bids a decade to make a single addition worthwhile. I think Murray State could get us there.

I'm watching the SIU-Murray St game and have quickly concluded that the Racers I'll hare the best team in the Valley.
St
Wait! You say we never invited them in?        A dodge I Never mind

Even if Murray State is better than anyone in the Valley, in no way would they make the Valley a 2-bid League this year if they were a member. There won't be an at-large resume in the entire roster of MVC teams tho year. All it would mean is a different program would represent the league in the tournament and we would split the pot 11 ways instead of 10.

People on this board who continue to sing Murray State's praises and continue to criticize Elgin for not adding both Valpo and Murray State might do well to show a little more humility. After our pathetic showing in year-1, if Elgin is second guessing anything, more likely it's that the league didn't add Murray State instead of Valpo.

All we are to this league is a first year bust that talks a good game, but has yet to prove a thing. The most appropriate thing we can do is get our nose out of league business and get our own house in order.  Valpo men's basketball is on the precipice right now. We have an inexperienced head coach, a crap facility, declining attendance, waning student support, and we're coming off a disastrous season. The future of this program is hanging in the balance. That's all I'm concerned about right now. I'll start worrying about NCAA tournament bids when this program gives us a reason to worry about it.

[FieldGoodie05]

It only takes 2 at large bids a decade to make a single addition worthwhile. I think Murray State could get us there.

I'm watching the SIU-Murray St game and have quickly concluded that the Racers I'll hare the best team in the Valley.
St
Wait! You say we never invited them in?        A dodge I Never mind

Even if Murray State is better than anyone in the Valley, in no way would they make the Valley a 2-bid League this year if they were a member. There won't be an at-large resume in the entire roster of MVC teams tho year. All it would mean is a different program would represent the league in the tournament and we would split the pot 11 ways instead of 10.

People on this board who continue to sing Murray State's praises and continue to criticize Elgin for not adding both Valpo and Murray State might do well to show a little more humility. After our pathetic showing in year-1, if Elgin is second guessing anything, more likely it's that the league didn't add Murray State instead of Valpo.

All we are to this league is a first year bust that talks a good game, but has yet to prove a thing. The most appropriate thing we can do is get our nose out of league business and get our own house in order.  Valpo men's basketball is on the precipice right now. We have an inexperienced head coach, a crap facility, declining attendance, waning student support, and we're coming off a disastrous season. The future of this program is hanging in the balance. That's all I'm concerned about right now. I'll start worrying about NCAA tournament bids when this program gives us a reason to worry about it.

I strongly agree that we need to get our house in order.  I don't care a thing for expansion while it only makes it harder for us to get the only assures bid (the league winner).

I also think we should be a "silent" party in deciding such things while all we have done is finish 10/10 in year one.  Don't take this as my lack of excitement for the program, take it as "we are acting like the new employee at an 80-year old company who has all the good ideas that should immediately change our destiny"....we are sort of smug.

[VUGrad1314]

It only takes 2 at large bids a decade to make a single addition worthwhile. I think Murray State could get us there.

I'm watching the SIU-Murray St game and have quickly concluded that the Racers I'll hare the best team in the Valley.
St
Wait! You say we never invited them in?        A dodge I Never mind

Even if Murray State is better than anyone in the Valley, in no way would they make the Valley a 2-bid League this year if they were a member. There won't be an at-large resume in the entire roster of MVC teams tho year. All it would mean is a different program would represent the league in the tournament and we would split the pot 11 ways instead of 10.

People on this board who continue to sing Murray State's praises and continue to criticize Elgin for not adding both Valpo and Murray State might do well to show a little more humility. After our pathetic showing in year-1, if Elgin is second guessing anything, more likely it's that the league didn't add Murray State instead of Valpo.

All we are to this league is a first year bust that talks a good game, but has yet to prove a thing. The most appropriate thing we can do is get our nose out of league business and get our own house in order.  Valpo men's basketball is on the precipice right now. We have an inexperienced head coach, a crap facility, declining attendance, waning student support, and we're coming off a disastrous season. The future of this program is hanging in the balance. That's all I'm concerned about right now. I'll start worrying about NCAA tournament bids when this program gives us a reason to worry about it.

First of all expansion decisions are driven by the presidents not Elgin. The anti 11 sentiment and the decision not to invite Murray State alongside Valpo rested with them not him. All anger should be directed at them not him. They are the ones who need to be motivated to do aomething Elgin simply acts for them.

Second,In a bad year for this program we still beat everyone in the top 6 except Loyola including a sweep of Drake and we were in virtually every game in conference  despite having a young shorthanded team. Were the results disappointing? Sure. Was the team mediocre? You bet. But the season was hardly a disaster. Individual games were but the season as a whole  was not.  The program isn't hanging in the balance or on the precipice because of one 15-17 season. To assert otherwise is being melodramatic (something I'm admittedly frequently guilty of being in my own posts. It's a message board. We all do it.)

The fact is that we joined a league that was about as strong as this one is now (maybe a little weaker)back in 07-08.  It took us until our fifth year to finish higher than fourth and then we grabbed the mantle and never looked back. Do you know who else took until year 5 to do anything after they switched leagues? Loyola. Do you know who says we're ahead of where his team was at this same point in their transition to the MVC? Porter Moser--the same coach who just won the MVC by 4 games and went to the final 4. I think he would know a thing or two about this transition and how hard it is. I bet Elgin if it really was his decision alone wished he could have the Loyola over Valpo decision back several times before 2018. I'll give you some examples:

1. When Loyola won 4 MVC games in 13-14 (compare to Valpo's 6 last year )
2. When Loyola still hadn't finished above .500 in the MVC in year 3 but Valpo was tearing up the NIT
3. When Illinois State  lost out on an at-large bid by an eyelash and Loyola still hadn`t finished above .500 in the NIT and Valpo was racking up another conference title
4. When Wichita State It's unlikely that Valpo could have made them stay but you can be sure that Loyola's continued mediocrity up to that point was a contributing factor

I'm willing to bet that until Loyola finally broke out he thought "what have we done? Adding Loyola instead of Valpo has harmed the longterm health of this conference and for what? Less than 2000 fans a night in Chicago? I should have never put market over program and if I get another chance I won't."That's why we're here and that's why Murray State got a visit. Now Murray State hasn't been added like they should have been this offseason because the presidents either: 1. are fat and happy gorging on the money their schools did not earn themselves or 2. Want a big market for student recruitment preferably with good academics. UMKC Omaha and Milwaukee didn't pass the competitiveness test and will probably take longer than Loyola did to get competitive while UIC was redundant and NKU lacks the track record but is probably our best shot at a non-Belmont compromise that will make the presidents happy. My firm belief is that they may be close to settling on NKU barring an unforeseen position shift by Belmont or SLU but they want to be absolutely sure. The problem is Murray State is forcing their hand.


Your  point about declining attendance is true everywhere not just here. We should do whatever we can to forestall the decline and it looks like VU is taking steps toward this end but College basketball is an unkind business you have to win to draw fans. Nothing sells or fills stadiums gyms and arenas quite like a steady stream of W's preferably against quality competition. This is all especially true in Chicago where there's so much competition for entertainment dollars. I think Paul just mentioned on USH that Loyola is already dealing with attendance issues thanks to their early struggles. The final 4 banner isn't even fully unfurled yet and the players don't even have a tan line where they wear their final 4 rings and the memory is already fading. We are fortunate in Valpo that it's easier to build and keep a fanbase here. If we ever made a final 4 I bet our attendance numbers would stay elevated for years. But that's only guaranteed if the team stays competitive.

You also appear to have missed that the chairback section is almost completely sold out for the Ball State game. Yes the tickets are half price but we've tried that against non-D1s and still struggle to get more than 50% full. Opponent\scheduling matters. (which we agree on I know)

Which brings me to my next point: Schools and conferences should do whatever they can to enhance their schedules. Murray State does that. Competition is good. The money cost (augmented solely by Loyola's deep run) is (still)worth that. The fact is that Illinois State missed because they underscheduled. Loyola would have struggled on the bubble last year because they underscheduled. In Illinois State's case, the margin was razor thin a little bump would have helped. With the year Murray State had last year it would have added legitimacy to the conference and to Loyola's performance to have a second top 50 team in conference. That would have helped either team's case with the committee.

How is it showing hubris toward our conference mates by showing them that we're on the same page and want to see the conference grow stronger? We are not being smug by advocating the same position as most of the fans of the MVC who care enough to post. I bet most who don't post agree too because adding Murray State just makes sense to seemingly everyone except the stick in the mud presidents. Unfortunately for the fans, the conference, and mid major basketball in general the ones holding up the league's progress are the same ones who hold the decision-making power on these issues. (Valpo officials are excepted from any criticism of MVC member presidents in this and future posts because they have never voted against the league's interests by rejecting Murray State and because they have already demonstrated and continue to demonstrate  a sizable financial commitment just to get us here and to work toward ensuring our success now that we're here.)

The students and fans will show up for a good promotion a good opponent and when the team is winning. We have 2 out of 3 so far for Ball State. If we win that game and (especially if we also beat Texas A&M) we'll still have 2 out of 3 as we head into conference play. If at least 2 of these conditions are met we should have solid crowds.

Your last sentence is telling and to my mind exposes some inconsistencies in your thinking:

Your main argument against adding Murray State is monetary yet they elevate the profile and strength of the league which means they can make the conference and by extension Valpo more money.  Conference success is Valpo's success whether Valpo does it or not because conference success brings Valpo more money and even raises their profile by association. Loyola's run did the most good for Loyola of any MVC member but make no mistake Loyola's run was good for the entire MVC.

You only care about whether Valpo gets bids and that's fine but a rising tide lifts all boats. What's more, when it's Valpo's time to shine among its MVC peers they will benefit from any boost of strength the MVC can muster. The more good teams we have the better our seed and the greater our chances to do something in the tournament. Goodbye 13-15 range hello 10-12 range or perhaps even higher.

You're a very vocal critic of the administration the facilities and the scheduling so you want everyone associated with the program to work much harder yet when an idea comes along that actually improves the  scheduling  and will force everyone to work harder you're against it because of an initial investment that should pay off quickly of about $10K-15K\year to add Murray State and that number is only so high because Loyola went to the Final 4.

You're concerned about the coach but you don't want to play Murray State a program that could help us learn whether we have the right coach sooner and fix any problems sooner twice a year.


I know that the focus is on basketball but it should  be mentioned that the move has been fine for our other programs so far as well. Far from a disaster.

Softball finished 4th last year and won a game in the tournament

Womens basketball won a game in the tournament

Baseball which took a big step up  won a game in the tournament 

Women's soccer qualified for the tournament in year one

Volleyball which also took a big step up  has qualified for the tournament both years won a game in year two and advanced to the quarterfinals of the NIVC.

I know the results in basketball aren't there yet and I know that's frustrating. I feel it too but a move like this requires time patience and faith. They're working harder than they ever have on the fans' concerns. Tangible improvements should start to arrive in the near future. As for the on-court product, I think the team is hungry and ready to be challenged. That and learning their roles could explain their uneven play. I think they'll embrace and succeed in the challenge of conference play. Just have faith that the results will come or that the right person to deliver them will. How can you look at the league this year and conclude that we don't have a chance to have a good year?

[IrishDawg]

A lot to digest there - If the goal is to make the league better as a whole in basketball, you add Murray State.  No brainer.  But adding Murray State is not going to get the league multiple bids, other than maybe once in a great while.  Murray State has been seeded high enough once in the last 20 years to say they were an at-large worthy team (2012).  That year they beat a really good Memphis team on the road and beat Saint Mary's at home.  As good as the MVC is as a league, beating mostly 100-150 level teams really doesn't enhance an at-large resume.  Doesn't kill it like losing to someone in the current HL or OVC (outside of Murray State or Belmont) would, but also isn't going to get you in.

Oddly enough, the loss that might have kept Illinois State out of the tournament in 2017 was to Murray State.  In 2016 the only MVC win that would have enhanced Valpo's at-large resume would have been Wichita State.  Last year was a magical year in the tournament for Loyola and the MVC.  However, to get multiple bids, the league doesn't need a rising tide to lift all boats.  They need one or 2 boats to really stand out consistently well above the rest of the schools in the league.  Whether that's Valpo, Loyola or another school remains to be seen, but last year the bottom of the league was as good or better than it's ever been and Loyola still needed to win Arch Madness to get in the tourney.

[valpo84]

[/quote]

I strongly agree that we need to get our house in order.  I don't care a thing for expansion while it only makes it harder for us to get the only assures bid (the league winner).

I also think we should be a "silent" party in deciding such things while all we have done is finish 10/10 in year one.  Don't take this as my lack of excitement for the program, take it as "we are acting like the new employee at an 80-year old company who has all the good ideas that should immediately change our destiny"....we are sort of smug.
[/quote]

New mascot and name solved -- Valpo Millennials (SI  )

[SanityLost17]

Valpo vs. Murray State:
2012-13 @ Murray -- Valpo wins 66-64  (Murray had Canaan on their team)
2013-14 @ Valpo -- Valpo wins 77-74. (Murray had Payne on their team)
2014-15 @ Neutral court -- Valpo wins  93 - 58. (Murray had Payne on their team)

In the years leading up to the decision on who to add Valpo did what they needed to do to get the MVC invite.  We beat some very good Murray teams when they had NBA talent.  Now we need to get our S**t together and get good again to prove they made the right decision.   

Honest Question.... 
How many bids would the MVC get most years if we added 4 teams and became a 14 team league trying to mimic the A10? (Saint Louis/South Dakota State/Murray State/Belmont)   Those 4 programs are all historically good, but if adding them doesn't guarantee at least 4 NCAA bids a year than even that wouldn't be worth it and I don't see the MVC being a 4 bid league even adding all 4, does anybody else?   

What it would do is make the regular season more fun, maybe move to 20 game conference schedule to make scheduling easier and have more competitive home games for everyone, but I am not sure it gets us enough at-large bids to make it worth it.  Because right now either Belmont or Murray is going to make it from the OVC every year, at least 1 current MVC team is going to make it with an auto bid, South Dakota is going to make it most years from the Summit, and St. Louis has a fighting chance in the A10 when they put a good squad together.   So without a guarantee of 4 bids why would those 4 teams come over?   

[VUGrad1314]

Because that's probably a  2-3 bid league  which is a heck of a lot better than the current MVC and anything each new member but SLU already has. That might be enough to justify Belmont and SDSU giving up the local tournaments and paying the travel costs. The tough sell is SLU. It's a massive travel win but you're asking them to give up the institutional fit and the East Coast recruiting which was difficult even when the MVC was getting 2-3 bids consistently. I would be all for that though.

[valpo64]

Why are you so positive about us and the MVC?

[a3uge]

It only takes 2 at large bids a decade to make a single addition worthwhile. I think Murray State could get us there.

I'm watching the SIU-Murray St game and have quickly concluded that the Racers I'll hare the best team in the Valley.
St
Wait! You say we never invited them in?        A dodge I Never mind

Even if Murray State is better than anyone in the Valley, in no way would they make the Valley a 2-bid League this year if they were a member. There won't be an at-large resume in the entire roster of MVC teams tho year. All it would mean is a different program would represent the league in the tournament and we would split the pot 11 ways instead of 10.

People on this board who continue to sing Murray State's praises and continue to criticize Elgin for not adding both Valpo and Murray State might do well to show a little more humility. After our pathetic showing in year-1, if Elgin is second guessing anything, more likely it's that the league didn't add Murray State instead of Valpo.

All we are to this league is a first year bust that talks a good game, but has yet to prove a thing. The most appropriate thing we can do is get our nose out of league business and get our own house in order.  Valpo men's basketball is on the precipice right now. We have an inexperienced head coach, a crap facility, declining attendance, waning student support, and we're coming off a disastrous season. The future of this program is hanging in the balance. That's all I'm concerned about right now. I'll start worrying about NCAA tournament bids when this program gives us a reason to worry about it.

Completely agree with the first paragraph. The MVC isn't a two bid league with Murray State and wouldn't have been a two bid league last year, even swapping Murray State for Valpo. If Loyola had lost the conference tournament, they wouldn't have an at-large. Adding two wins over Murray State would have meant two wins over a non top 25/50 team. This is the only metric the selection committee has looked at for the past 5-10 years. Since the MVC isn't top heavy and teams 1-10 beat up on each other, Loyola was disqualified from an at-large bid. And I don't lump the A10 or the MW in with the rest of the mid majors. The budgets of the top 5 teams in that conference are significantly higher than the MVC.

As for Elgin having regret... He may, but almost nobody in the MVC has justification to whine about this. I'm not sure how Murray State would turn their programs into at-larges, when Wichita State wasn't even able to do so. Valpo needs to look inward, but so does everybody else. Almost all of these programs have been marred in medicority for several years now. Beyond UNI and 1 year of Loyola, no program has been a consistent top ~50 program.

[VUGrad1314]

Why are you so positive about us and the MVC?

Because this is like a dream come true for Valpo. It's the best midmajor conference in the midwest and allows not only the basketball team but the entire athletic department to compete at a really high level offering multiple sports the potential for at large bids. It's the best situation a midwestern school of our location size and budget can hope for given that we aren't urban and don't have FBS or even  scholarship  football. But mostly it feels like home in a way the HL never did. Closer schools more private schools more in-state schools not as urban\commuter oriented more basketball focused more passionate fan bases. That's why I'm so positive.


As for Valpo's role in the MVC I just believe that we will rise to the occasion as we have in the past. It took awhile to get going in the HL and our facilities lagged behind many in the conference and that turned out great. None of it mattered as much as the program . Obviously now it will be harder we have further to go and our program's strength will be tested by other great programs but challenge is never a bad thing. Programs grow from it and ours shouldn't be an exception to that rule. I see no evidence yet that Valpo is in over its head or has made a mistake and is hurting its program and I don't expect to see any.


That said here's a note on Murray State after having some time to cool down and gather myself after last night's impressive showing. Full disclosure I am still 100% in favor of adding them ASAP BUT:


It is possible that Ja Morant is their Alec Peters and that they might struggle with the transition to the MVC as we have as they search for their next go to star. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be added but it does mean that there's a chance that they won't immediately solve all of our problems.

[FieldGoodie05]

Why are you so positive about us and the MVC?

Because this is like a dream come true for Valpo. It's the best midmajor conference in the midwest and allows not only the basketball team but the entire athletic department to compete at a really high level offering multiple sports the potential for at large bids. It's the best situation a midwestern school of our location size and budget can hope for given that we aren't urban and don't have football. But mostly it feels like home in a way the HL never did. Closer schools more private schools more in-state schools not as urban\commuter oriented more basketball focused more passionate fan bases. That's why I'm so positive.


As for Valpo's role in the MVC I just believe that we will rise to the occasion as we have in the past. It took awhile to get going in the HL and our facilities lagged behind many in the conference and that turned out great. None of it mattered as much as the program . Obviously now it will be harder we have further to go and our program's strength will be tested by other great programs but challenge is never a bad thing. Programs grow from it and ours shouldn't be an exception to that rule. I see no evidence yet that Valpo is in over its head or has made a mistake and is hurting its program and I don't expect to see any.


That said here's a note on Murray State after having some time to cool down and gather myself after last night's impressive showing. Full disclosure I am still 100% in favor of adding them ASAP BUT:


It is possible that Ja Morant is their Alec Peters and that they might struggle with the transition to the MVC as we have as they search for their next go to star. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be added but it does mean that there's a chance that they won't immediately solve all of our problems.

VUgrad1314, I hope your optimism and energy persists on the forum for years to come.  Please don't be discouraged by my (and others') less optimistic views than yours.  Just as you show emotion in your posts, I might show emotion in trying to cool your jets!!  It's all in good fun and I hope you keep sharing your POV.