Possible Missouri Valley Conference Expansion

[VUGrad1314]

Rumor has it that New Mexico State and Grand Canyon University are considering working together to try to get both schools into a better more stable conference. Should the MVC be interested in this package?

Pros:

Adds one solid program and another program with high potential

Adds one solid academic institution and another institution in a major market

Could really aid the MVC's multibid quest

Cons:

Huge travel burden

GCU's image and lack of academic prestige is a huge concern

For all their theoretical promise GCU really hasn't been that good

Unstable (both would leave us for comparable more suitable regional homes)

[NativeCheesehead]

[EddieCabot]

The MVC has 10 solid members in a tight geographic footprint ... why would they seek to add two marginal programs half a continent away?   

[VULB#62]

In light of all the crying about mid-major scheduling difficulties, I am still scratching my head over why the MVC doesn't suck it up, put the logistics excuses to pasture, and go to 11 teams (hello Murray State) and a 20 game conference schedule.

[IndyValpo]

Has there ever been an article claiming that Murray State wants to join?

In the OVC they have a much better chance of going to the NCAA.

They have been in the OVC since it formed in 1948.

Would the MVFC take the football team?

They would be nice to have but to me it doesn't make sense for them.

[IndyValpo]

Rumor has it that New Mexico State and Grand Canyon University are considering working together to try to get both schools into a better more stable conference. Should the MVC be interested in this package?

Pros:

Adds one solid program and another program with high potential

Adds one solid academic institution and another institution in a major market

Could really aid the MVC's multibid quest

Cons:

Huge travel burden

GCU's image and lack of academic prestige is a huge concern

For all their theoretical promise GCU really hasn't been that good

Unstable (both would leave us for comparable more suitable regional homes)

As a recent transplant to Phoenix I completely support adding GCU! They have great facilities.

Unfortunately other than for my enjoyment they probably don't make sense

I would disagree they haven't been good. They have won 20 or more games four years straight.

[VUGrad1314]

They've been "good" in the sense that they've beaten up on weak competition but they haven't won any games of note against significant opponents, NMSU owns them, an in relation to their supposed promise "The next Gonzaga" they have fallen WAY short of expectations. That and a poor academic reputation is not a good recipe for moving up. This would be more about getting NMSU and hoping GCU is good than anything else.

[VUGrad1314]

 Has there ever been an article claiming that Murray State wants to join?


Yes back when we were added they were adament about wanting to go Their fanbase seems to support it in droves even today according to their board.


In the OVC they have a much better chance of going to the NCAA. They have been in the OVC since it formed in 1948.


These two are true but they seem to want more and good on them for it. This is about seeding credits and bids for them Not just appearances

Would the MVFC take the football team?

Yes they would That doesn't appear to be a sticking point from anything I have seen or read.


They would be nice to have but to me it doesn't make sense for them.



We disagree on this. I think it makes tremendous sense for both league and team. You can argue the league needs them more than they need the league but it would still be a tremendous marriage for both sides if the university presidents of the MVC could just get out of their own way.

[vu84v2]

NMSU certainly should be considered for the MVC.

Grand Canyon?  No way!  Their move to being a 'non-profit' is essentially a giant scam, in which the 'non-profit' entity was setup by the 'for profit' and required to purchase a high volume of services from the remaining 'for profit' enterprise. I am sure there are one or two exceptions, but their academics are a joke.

[VUGrad1314]

We'd probably have to fill in the gaps between Missouri State and New Mexico State to make it work somehow and that would open up schools in Texas or possibly Oral Roberts and doesn't really leave a spot for Murray State which should be the goal and is the easiest solution to add quality to the conference and aid our quest to being a multibid league on any sort of consistent basis. If Belmont and Murray can get it done from the freaking OVC we can get it done in our conference if we would just make it a priority as a conference. Sadly I'm not seeing very inspiring scheduling from a lot of MVC members towards that goal. And if we're going to waste non conference spots on non D1s and schools like SIUE we might as well go the 11\20 route with Murray State

[usc4valpo]

How about NDSU?

[VUGrad1314]

Big time travel concerns I don't think the rest of the MVC wants to go to the Dakotas in all sports. There is also the question of whether they would want to leave the Summit League. NDSU and SDSU as a combo would be a nice get I think, though I am concerned that NDSU doesn't deliver the upside as a program we would want (though they did win a tournament game this past decade), and that doesn't create a spot for Murray State who definitely should be the #1 option for the MVC.

[VUGrad1314]

Father Harry is pretty plugged in on all things MVC. Although this sounds like just an innocuous poll question, I have to wonder by posing it if he's subtly hinting that something's up on the Murray State to MVC front? I sure hope so!

https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/1218545536325824512

[VUGrad1314]

Meanwhile in teams that should be in the MVC:

https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/1233961319113674752

Really wish we could get one (or both) of these teams in the conference. It would help the league so much in its goals.

[valpo64]

Murray State and Belmont are like Gonzaga and  St. Mary's in their respective leagues...the 2 teams dominate every year in their respective leagues with no reasonable competition. I wonder if they also get the lion's share of receipts from the NCAA tourney.  If they do get a  large chunk of money every year why would they even consider changing conferences?  Even when they have down years I think they still dominate in their conferences don't they?

[VUGrad1314]

Yes, this was a "bad" year for Murray State by their standards not by OVC standards. As for tournament credits I believe they are shared equally as they are in the MVC the HL the Summit and many other leagues. To answer your question: seeding. and (perhaps) extra bids. The MVC team will frequently get anywhere from a 10 to a 12 and has a chance (if enough teams pull their weight and have better years which we are close to seeing) at snagging an at large bid. The OVC champion unless they have a truly special year often finds themselves in the 14-16 seed range and has very little shot at an at large (I totally discount Belmont last year I really think that was a Lifetime Achievement Award for Rick Byrd).

[oklahomamick]

Would like to add that Evansville beat Murray St.

[VUGrad1314]

Before the turmoil. Can't even compare the team before and after the turmoil. That should be viewed as two distinct seasons.

[valpotx]

Would like to add that Evansville beat Murray St.

SIU-E beat Belmont early on in the OVC season

[VUGrad1314]

Exactly. Teams have bad games an take bad losses. And it is important to remember that at the time Evansville was NOT a bad loss and you wouldn't have found a single person who would have considered it one.

[VUGrad1314]

It seems as though Murray State fans have by and large turned against the idea of going to the MVC... Sigh... That's sad.... It's such a good match for both team and league and makes so much sense....

[vok22]

It seems as like a 12 bid MVC is being discussed by the league. I have seen multiple articles this morning (I'll connect them later) say that sources are saying the league wants to expand outride of the midwest and are looking at a Texas team and.... Cleveland State???

[NotBryceDrew]

Belmont and Murray state outside them it should be a hard no. No one else makes the MVC better as 12 schools.

[vok22]

Belmont and Murray state outside them it should be a hard no. No one else makes the MVC better as 12 schools.

Yea I would agree, and even then I would still have questions cause we have to split shares more ways. We proved this year we can be a 2 bid league without Belmont or Murray, so would adding them give us the potential for a 3 bid league or a perennial 2 big league is the question. I would lean towards yes but I could be convinced otherwise. I cannot come up with a justification for Cleveland State though. Not in a million years.

[VUGrad1314]

With all due respect to Cleveland State which has been a very good program at times historically and is on a definite upswing if we're looking at an Ohio school and can't get Dayton(which we won't be able to) then we should be looking at Wright State for a host of reasons not just basketball. They are solid to terrific in multiple sports that the MVC is strong in and their budget would (I believe) be upper tier in the MVC. Belmont and Murray State is the play if we can get them. Wright State would be fine. NKU might be a strong addition but I need to see more from them. I'd be willing to hear overtures from North Dakota State South Dakota State and (especially after this tournament run) Oral Roberts but these are all way down on the list for me. I believe that adding Belmont and Murray State makes the MVC a perennial 2 bid league with a shot at 3 in good years and would be a terrific play for the conference as it is the best way to add strength and keep everything balanced public\private wise. Really I'm willing to consider adding anybody who can add at least one Q1 or Q2 opportunity to the conference because we need more of those games even if it takes away the double round robin.

Murray State adds a strong fanbase that travels well and a historically strong program. They will make Arch Madness even more fun especially when they are good.

Belmont is good in both men's and women's basketball and adds a new and growing market to the MVC.

Wright State is all around solid with terrific baseball

NKU has shown potential in basketball but might possibly be at or near their ceiling but they would also add a new and growing market to the MVC so if they could tap into that a little more they could be a strong addition but I'm not as bullish on them as I was say 2-3 years ago.

North Dakota State and South Dakota State are state flagships with very strong athletic departments. South Dakota State would add a lot to women's basketball as well while being good for men's basketball. North Dakota State is good in a lot of sports.

Oral Roberts is coming off a huge tournament run. Is private. Gives Missouri State a travel partner. Allows the MVC back into the Tulsa market (for whatever that is worth to them) Is very good in baseball and decent overall in most sports.

Honorable mentions (these won't be considered but I want to shout out some schools that are strong in an important MVC sport or who have potential)

UIC (baseball)

South Dakota (Women's basketball)

St Thomas (New to D1 but has a large endowment and historical success at the D3 level and is in a decent market that the MVC might want in Minneapolis)


I'm very pro expansion because I love the idea of being a 3+ bid league most years in multiple sports. It would make the conference athletic season as a whole even more interesting. Could you imagine our already decent basketball leagues for both men and women with Belmont Murray State South Dakota State and one other of Wright State North Dakota State or ORU?) Baseball with Wright State or ORU (or UIC if they improved the rest of their athletics) added? We'd have top 25 teams all over the place! The problem is that it would only further underscore our facilities issues and bring them even closer to the fore than they are already.