Possible Missouri Valley Conference Expansion

[IrishDawg]

I've always been impressed how the University, and City of Valpo work together to solve these kind of problems....NOT!!!!!

This reminds me of this classic from Parks and Rec:

[may know]

IrishDawg, have you done parking at Xavier? If you can't get ahold of a STH parking pass, you're probably in for a brutal mile walk from the old, narrow neighborhood.

[IrishDawg]

IrishDawg, have you done parking at Xavier? If you can't get ahold of a STH parking pass, you're probably in for a brutal mile walk from the old, narrow neighborhood.

I haven't, but I've heard the neighborhoods around Xavier's campus can be a little dicey.  I have been to Creighton's arena and it can be a haul to walk there too unless you're willing to pay.  That's a nice facility, though kind of bland from an aesthetic or historical prospective.  Dayton's arena is nice as well, and at least when I went there it wasn't an awful walk to get to the arena from the parking lot.

[bbtds]

I'd put Valpo somewhere in the middle of that group in terms of convenience vs. size of the arena.  Purdue and IU are the worst to park at in terms of normal walking distance to the arena, but their stadiums also hold 14-16k. 

I don't think size of the arena should matter. Parking could also be convenient near a large arena if set up well from the beginning.

The reason many people go to smaller venue college games is because they don't want to deal with the large arenas like at IU, Purdue, ND, etc. and the parking and large crowd issues that come with going to one of their athletic department events.

[VUGrad1314]

Before this thread becomes another facilities thread, here are some thoughts on expansion. Let me know what you think:

So really our realistic list for expansion going forward if the goal is to add value to the conference is these six schools:

1. Murray State
2. SLU (unlikely)
3. Belmont (unlikely)
4. NKU
5.Wright State
6. South Dakota State (unlikely without another Dakota school)

As for at-large bids, given how close the MVC has been to garnering at-large bids in recent years, and how close Murray State has gotten as well despite being in the OVC, I fail to see how making prudent quality additions can hurt our chances. I still believe firmly in the potential of NKU and of the MVC as a whole. Anything to add to scheduling and quality of competition is good for the league and for us as fans. I still see North Dakota's joining the MVFC in 2020 as the target date for expansion, at which point Murray State will be toured again (and invited) Belmont and SLU will be asked and if both decline I wouldn't be surprised if the visit list is NKU Wright State and South Dakota State with NKU as the likely frontrunner to be added.

If we're doing 14 and Belmont\SLU won't change their minds then we should just take the other 4 on this list. If SDSU wants to remain in the conference they own, we audition Omaha, Oral Roberts,UALR, UIC (maybe) and Milwaukee and pick the best one, or rather, the one that shows the greatest potential. Heavy preference would likely be given to Omaha, ORU, and UALR due to their ability to serve as reasonable partners for Missouri State. Of these I believe ORU would have the inside track as a private school with better basketball history and non-revenue sports. On potential, however, the best play could be Omaha. Though at that point we probably just stay at 12 and have Nku and Murray State be travel partners. Or split up ISUb and Evansville and go with

ISUb\NKU
Evansville\Murray State

Personally I don't think there's much appetite for going to 14 teams; and given our struggle to find even a suitable 12th, that seems reasonable. It would have to be a perfect (or near perfect) mix, and such a mix likely requires one or both of Belmont and SLU. I really think Wright State has potential but I can't see them getting the nod over NKU if it came to an either or choice.

[VU2014]

NKU and Wright State don't wow me as potential adds. NKU is a young program and needs to prove sustainability. If they become the clear alpha HL program over the next 5-10 years then I'd give them more consideration.

I'm in wait and see mode with what happens the next few years with expansion in P5 and BE. I don't think any of the FCS football MVC schools have ambition to move to FBS and I don't currently see any MVC school getting a serious look by the BE. LU went on a great run but you don't invites based on 1 run and decades of mediocrity, they'd need to develop into a powerhouse.

[IndyValpo]

ISUb?  I know you mean Indiana State but what it the b?

[VU2014]

ISUb?  I know you mean Indiana State but what it the b?

It differentiates Illinois State and Indiana State. The lowercase letters represents their school colors. ISUr (Illinois State red). ISUb (Indiana State blue).

[oklahomamick]

Mvc should stay as is unless they can get one or more of the following SLU, Dayton or Belmont.  I understand that disrupts the private/public but those are the best basketball programs.  Murray state is close behind.

Nku, Wright state, Omaha, oru are tier two or low majors.  Don't settle or just add for the sake of adding.

I feel kind of bad for sayin "add them" and "don't add them".  We have only been in the league for a full year now.  It's like Oakland coming into the HL and making suggestions on day 1.  Have to earn our keep before making suggestions. 

[bbtds]

ISUb?  I know you mean Indiana State but what it the b?

It differentiates Illinois State and Indiana State. The lowercase letters represents their school colors. ISUr (Illinois State red). ISUb (Indiana State blue).

Yes, ISUb is for Indiana State Sycamores and the "b" stands for Blue while the "r" in ISUr stands for Redbirds.

[IndyValpo]

ISUb?  I know you mean Indiana State but what it the b?

It differentiates Illinois State and Indiana State. The lowercase letters represents their school colors. ISUr (Illinois State red). ISUb (Indiana State blue).

I have to say, differentiating by color is a new one on me...might use IndSt IllSt as everyone may not know their colors. Sadly, as a testament to my life, I do know many schools colors. I can't wait until Loyola (b) plays Loyola (g) sometime

[talksalot]

BTW, if you haven't driven down LaPorte Avenue where the old ramp was... it's a very nicely paved, lined PARKING LOT...

[wh]

BTW, if you haven't driven down LaPorte Avenue where the old ramp was... it's a single row, very nicely paved, lined PARKING LOT...

Fixed it for you.

[justducky]

BTW, if you haven't driven down LaPorte Avenue where the old ramp was... it's a single row, very nicely paved, lined PARKING LOT...

Fixed it for you.

So are you telling us that it is indeed a Parking Lot but that it doesn't have a Lot of Parking 

[EddieCabot]

Valpo will be receiving a huge, totally unanticipated, annually recurring windfall from the Loyola tournament run. Air condition the freaking ARC with it and stop passing around a hat like some street beggar. What's next - 50/50 raffles at home games to pay for a new ARC water heater. How embarrassing.

I totally agree, but this isn't the first time Valpo will be reaping the benefits of being in a conference with multiple bids or deep NCAAT runs.  Any idea what they did with the $ from the previous windfalls?  Was that money spent in a futile attempt to keep Bryce?  I don't know, but hopefully they use that money to invest in the program instead of overpaying the coaching staff.

[wh]

BTW, if you haven't driven down LaPorte Avenue where the old ramp was... it's a single row, very nicely paved, lined PARKING LOT...

Fixed it for you.

So are you telling us that it is indeed a Parking Lot but that it doesn't have a Lot of Parking 

If 17 spaces on either side of a single pass-thru lane is a parking lot, then it's a parking lot. It's at least as much a parking lot as my 2 1/2 car garage is a parking garage.

[bbtds]

ISUb?  I know you mean Indiana State but what it the b?

It differentiates Illinois State and Indiana State. The lowercase letters represents their school colors. ISUr (Illinois State red). ISUb (Indiana State blue).

I have to say, differentiating by color is a new one on me...might use IndSt IllSt as everyone may not know their colors. Sadly, as a testament to my life, I do know many schools colors. I can't wait until Loyola (b) plays Loyola (g) sometime

These were created on the MVC message boards and websites long ago before Valpo became a member of the MVC. I don't think it's our right or obligation to come up with new initial designations for Illinois State and Indiana State. Although in my mind it would be easier to use INST/ILST

As far as Loyola (b) and Loyola (g) I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Loyola-Chicago and Loyola-New Orleans use the traditional colors of Father Loyola who the order is named after which is maroon and gold and Loyola Maryland uses the colors grey and green. I suppose Loyola (g) is Loyola Maryland but what is Loyola (b)?

[VUGrad1314]

Here are two more reasons why I think expansion could become a real topic this year. The MVC is about to take a big hit to the quality of their schedules. First, the entire conference is losing the benefit of the MWC\MVC Challenge, taking, at minimum, a quality Q2 game with an opponent with some name power from everyone in the conference. I don't know if that change is permanent but it may be. In addition, UNI and Drake are losing the Hy-Vee challenge, another frequently Q2 P5 opportunity. This is a massive blow to MVC schedules.

Adding at least Murray State shouldn't break anyone's travel budget and adds the sometimes Q1\frequent Q2 opportunity the challenge once provided and replaces the Hy-Vee with a comparable game. If the MVC is able to restart the challenge or get a new one with say the A10, then this becomes a scheduling win over the low-level D1\non-D1 school the MVC schools would otherwise be playing, which increases our at-large chances.

[vu72]

ISUb?  I know you mean Indiana State but what it the b?

It differentiates Illinois State and Indiana State. The lowercase letters represents their school colors. ISUr (Illinois State red). ISUb (Indiana State blue).

I have to say, differentiating by color is a new one on me...might use IndSt IllSt as everyone may not know their colors. Sadly, as a testament to my life, I do know many schools colors. I can't wait until Loyola (b) plays Loyola (g) sometime

These were created on the MVC message boards and websites long ago before Valpo became a member of the MVC. I don't think it's our right or obligation to come up with new initial designations for Illinois State and Indiana State. Although in my mind it would be easier to use INST/ILST

As far as Loyola (b) and Loyola (g) I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Loyola-Chicago and Loyola-New Orleans use the traditional colors of Father Loyola who the order is named after which is maroon and gold and Loyola Maryland uses the colors grey and green. I suppose Loyola (g) is Loyola Maryland but what is Loyola (b)?

So what about Loyola Maryland or Loyola Marymount?

[wh]

Valpo will be receiving a huge, totally unanticipated, annually recurring windfall from the Loyola tournament run. Air condition the freaking ARC with it and stop passing around a hat like some street beggar. What's next - 50/50 raffles at home games to pay for a new ARC water heater. How embarrassing.

BTW while you're at it, replace the freaking PA system that's been broken for the past 10 years, and don't pass the hat for that either. It's actually hard to believe that Valpo is a member of a prominent D1 conference, when it cries poor about the cost of building mechanicals and has a tin can out of the 1980's for a communication system.

God forbid that I would bring up the ARC parking FUBAR. I can only imagine the number of hats and 50/50 raffles it will take to bale the university out of that facility planning masterpiece.

Just came across a PA system that would provide much better voice clarity.  I believe it's been on the market for awhile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lQsrNlJTuY

[VUGrad1314]

The case for Wright State  to the MVC to be added alongside NKU especially in a 14-team MVC scenario:

I did a deeper dive into Wright State as a candidate (particulsrly if a 14 team scenario is in play). Here's what I found (numbers for athletics go back to the 2006-2007 season in basketball and the  2006 season in baseball):

Basketball:
Record: 238-162
2 NCAA Appearances
1 CBI
1 CIT
10 19+ win seasons (9 20+ win seasons)

They are led by a highly respected coach (Scott Nagy) who definitely has the program moving in the right direction

Strong attendance (4000+) would likely increase with better MVC competition coming in

Previous rivalries with Loyola and Valparaiso

Strong non-revenue sports particularly in baseball:


Has won at least 30 games in baseball every year since 2006 except for 2013 when they won 25)

5 Regular Season Horizon League Titles

6 Conference Tournament Titles

6 NCAA Tournament Appearances

2 Super Regionals

Academics\Other Information:

Independent Institution Not part of another  system

Research based

Conveys degrees to doctorate level

Ranked #147 by Washington Monthly

Within 5 hours of 5\10 MVC Schools Bradley is 5 hrs 3 minutes away SIU 5:50 away

Along with NKU would give MVC strong presence in a key recruiting area\media market

If it weren't for the strain this would put on UNI Drake and Missouri State, they would be a borderline no-brainer addition alongside NKU. They're perfect travel partners (1 hour apart) non-football publics, which will no doubt ease private schools' concerns about balance, deliver a consequential media market\recruiting hotbed, and combine the upside of a fast-growing new university with a more stable and  reliable brand that does well in multiple sports. With the benefit of MVC recruiting to buoy them, they could really elevate themselves.

One major downside is how badly adding teams like Wright State and NKU hurts the travel budgets of UNI Drake and Missouri State as those schools are a whopping 8+ hours away. This feels almost like the  Eastern equivalent of adding the Dakotas except neither of these is a flagship. None of these schools really  move the needle in basketball like Murray State (SDSU comes closest) but might if they got a recruiting boost from the MVC though they are excellent in other sports. However they add significantly to the travel budgets of multiple member institutions. Is that increase worth what  these schools add? That is the question.

If it weren't for the strain this would put on UNI Drake and Missouri State, they would be a borderline no-brainer addition alongside NKU. They're perfect travel partners (1 hour apart) non-football publics, which will no doubt ease private schools' concerns about balance, deliver a consequential media market\recruiting hotbed, and combine the upside of a fast-growing new university with a more stable and  reliable brand that does well in multiple sports. With the benefit of MVC recruiting to buoy them, they could really elevate themselves.

[VUGrad1314]

Murray State's president looks to be following their AD out the door. This may not be good for future expansion. These guys were decidedly pro-athletics. There's no telling whether the next administration will have a similar character. With budget cuts looming in Kentucky, the window to add another quality program in our footprint may be closing.

https://www.racerfans.com/board/viewtop ... b43cfc8057

[VU2014]

The case for Wright State  to the MVC to be added alongside NKU especially in a 14-team MVC scenario:

I did a deeper dive into Wright State as a candidate (particulsrly if a 14 team scenario is in play). Here's what I found (numbers for athletics go back to the 2006-2007 season in basketball and the  2006 season in baseball):

Basketball:
Record: 238-162
2 NCAA Appearances
1 CBI
1 CIT
10 19+ win seasons (9 20+ win seasons)

They are led by a highly respected coach (Scott Nagy) who definitely has the program moving in the right direction

Strong attendance (4000+) would likely increase with better MVC competition coming in

Previous rivalries with Loyola and Valparaiso

Strong non-revenue sports particularly in baseball:


Has won at least 30 games in baseball every year since 2006 except for 2013 when they won 25)

5 Regular Season Horizon League Titles

6 Conference Tournament Titles

6 NCAA Tournament Appearances

2 Super Regionals

Academics\Other Information:

Independent Institution Not part of another  system

Research based

Conveys degrees to doctorate level

Ranked #147 by Washington Monthly

Within 5 hours of 5\10 MVC Schools Bradley is 5 hrs 3 minutes away SIU 5:50 away

Along with NKU would give MVC strong presence in a key recruiting area\media market

Neither NKU or Wright State are obvious adds, imo. If they become consistent top mid programs and are dominating the Horizon League, as well as consistently beating competition from better conferences in the OOC then I would be more willing to talk expansion with those schools. NKU is a very young program that has a lot to still prove, but there is potential. Wright State I'm even less sold on. Yeah they could be in for a good year but I'm more sold on the coach then the program itself.

Neither NKU or Wright State is going to make the MVC a two bid league as of right now.

Question: was there every really a true rivalry between VU and NKU/Wright State? There wasn't much heat there, imo.

[VUGrad1314]

Was there ever really any real consistent  heat with anyone but Butler? I honestly think Oakland Detroit(for about a year or two) Green Bay (while Wardle was there) and Cleveland State (Waters era) followed by Wright State came closest to rivalries but none of them burned too brightly for too long. When we joined  we had our rival in Butler which admittedly was probably more one sided on our end, then I don't think we were there long enough after they left and the other teams were too cyclical to develop a single new rival. I know the conference collectively hated us though.

[VUGrad1314]

And yes I know Wright State doesn't wow anyone in basketball but they're consistently solid. They're the kind of program that will help keep the middle of the pack strong but probably won't frequently challenge for the top spot in the MVC (that may be changing now). As things stand right now, they're the kind of addition that doesn't scream potential like Murray State NKU UIC or Milwaukee  but they have a high floor. You could do a lot worse, but you could probably do better as well. As a bookend to NKU, they make a lot of sense as they are one hour apart. Taking them instead of NKU, however, probably doesn't.