Possible Missouri Valley Conference Expansion

[VUGrad1314]

UMASS still has work to do to impress the AAC it appears.

https://www.berkshireeagle.com/stories/howard-herman-designated-hitter-umass-to-aac-dont-count-on-it,549284?

[VUGrad1314]

Speaking of budgets, I was very surprised and impressed to see that Wright State's budget now exceeds $3million. That would put them second only to Bradley in the conference. Perhaps they are attempting to position themselves to get into the MVC one day. I could understand reluctance on the part of the conference to come that far east, but they do check a lot of boxes for the MVC. Also surprising to me was that Murray State and NKU are under $2million which would put them near the bottom of the MVC. I know budgets aren't everything but it's certainly a factor to consider.

[elephtheria47]

Valpo says they're putting together an at large worthy out of conference schedule....I think there are plenty of universities out there who could be enticed to come to the MVC that are better than a majority of the out of conference schedule, and we keep hearing about how hard it is to schedule home out of conference games. That's not going to get easier.

So ideally, yes, you add teams that would make it a multi bid league. Hopefully you can add a top tier team that makes everyone better, but still adding any  solid team would (hopefully/potentially?) remove the two worst bottom out of conference games for everyone in the league. Either way, you still have to move forward and strengthen your position. I'd rather be the hunter and nab a good program instead of sitting back and waiting to add a great program that may or may not ever happen. We know what being the hunted feels like (horizon league). MVC knows what it feels like with losing the two biggest cash cows. With the major conferences going to a 20 game season soon....and another shake up looming, do you think Loyola is content in the MVC? Theyre on everyone's radar now. Another run or two, then what? What's the MVC doing to make sure we dont lose any more teams? Sitting back and saying were only going to take Murray state or Murray state and Belmont doesn't seem to be the answer.

[VUGrad1314]

Murray State is #64 in the top 144

http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/16566

[bbtds]

What's the MVC doing to make sure we dont lose any more teams? Sitting back and saying were only going to take Murray state or Murray state and Belmont doesn't seem to be the answer.

MVC Commissioner Elgin has never uttered a sentence like that. He and the expansion committee looked at Murray State during the time that the expansion committee was replacing WSU. There have been no commitments to Murray State to be invited to the MVC. The only thing that the MVC has committed to is possible expansion in the near future. Just like Valpo, Murray State has the chance to impress the MVC expansion committee when they feel the time comes to expand the MVC. No other commitments have been made to Murray State no matter what their AD says or what plans the Racers athletic dept makes.

[VUGrad1314]

I still think expansion will happen by 2020. In the meantime this is what the MVC can do to improve its lot in future expansion\realignment:

Remain a top 8 conference If we can somehow beat out at least one of the P5\BE\AAC so much the better but at least holding on to this #8 spot is key

Multiple bids at least once over the next two years

Keep up the tournament success Have at least one more deep run the deeper the better

No anchors in conference dragging down everyone's metrics

Valpo needs to recover quickly and show that a team can rise to the MVC and compete in short order. The quicker Valpo gets strong the better.

The stronger Loyola remains, the better

SIU needs a big year to stave off its negative enrollment trend

UNI needs to recover

Illinois State needs to deliver

Bradley Missouri State Indiana State Drake and Evansville need to build on the strides they are already making

[FieldGoodie05]

I still think expansion will happen by 2020. In the meantime this is what the MVC can do to improve its lot in future expansion\realignment:

Remain a top 8 conference If we can somehow beat out at least one of the P5\BE\AAC so much the better but at least holding on to this #8 spot is key

Multiple bids at least once over the next two years

Keep up the tournament success Have at least one more deep run the deeper the better

No anchors in conference dragging down everyone's metrics

Valpo needs to recover quickly and show that a team can rise to the MVC and compete in short order. The quicker Valpo gets strong the better.

The stronger Loyola remains, the better

SIU needs a big year to stave off its negative enrollment trend

UNI needs to recover

Illinois State needs to deliver

Bradley Missouri State Indiana State Drake and Evansville need to build on the strides they are already making

We badly need to put together a record above .500 in the league this year.  Last year we were the anchor with UNI.  I was still amazed at how much UNI fell of the cliff after a pretty solid OOC performance last year.  The good news is that they were more like us in that their roster had (2) contributing seniors with a bunch of underclassmen.  I think UNI will make solid strides this year.  I like their freshmen F (Austin Phyfe), he looked very solid against us last year and should be able to play decent in Klint Carlson and Bennet Koch's stead.

I know there are some UNI posters on this board, who can we expect to be impressed with in your front-court next year?

[VUGrad1314]

I think the collapse in the tournament against Texas A&M had such a profound effect on the team that it's taken multiple years to recover. Now that most of the players who were on that team have cycled out they may be able to recover. I think as long as coach Jacobson remains in place their program culture will be fine and will ensure overall success.

[VUGrad1314]

This isn't directly related to the MVC but it would be interesting what the fallout of this move would be if it happens.

https://www.fairfieldcitizenonline.com/sports/jeffjacobs/article/Jeff-Jacobs-Future-of-UConn-football-isn-t-13195151.php

[IrishDawg]

This isn't directly related to the MVC but it would be interesting what the fallout of this move would be if it happens.

https://www.fairfieldcitizenonline.com/sports/jeffjacobs/article/Jeff-Jacobs-Future-of-UConn-football-isn-t-13195151.php

Big IF they actually got rid of FBS football, it's no secret that the Big East would come after them.  What would happen after that, honestly I don't know if anything would immediately occur after that.  The American wouldn't have any clear-cut candidates to join them, but I would guess then Army would join for football to provide balance to the conference.

[VUGrad1314]

My guess is Army\VCU Followed by a move by the A10. If Loyola continues to do well there's a real chance they could be the target even though the A10 said no more midwestern teams. That's why staying ahead of the A10 is so critical to the conference's future.

[VUGrad1314]

An old article but a good one. It's 100% right. It's past time for the MVC to embrace Murray State other considerations be darned.

https://www.tribstar.com/sports/todd-aaron-golden-mvc-needs-to-be-aggressive-and-get/article_7395c85f-d8c2-5e76-bdfb-af68beb9ae4e.html

[FWalum]

Makes perfect sense to me.

[crusadermoe]

Belmont and Murray both make sense in basketball (and of course SLU makes even more sense!). The OVC is terrible.  But I can see why both Murray and especially Belmont would avoid sending their other sports teams all over Iowa, Ill, and Indiana. 

Some creativity could have MVC baseball teams set up 3-4 weekends of round robin games in Saint Louis so you could get in 4-6 games for each in a long weekend Thurs-Sun.  Weather sucks for baseball in the northern six schools and the constant trips waste a lot of travel/class time in cold weather.  You could also consider playing soccer, track, and tennis etc with a schedule that shifts games to the north in early season and to the south later.  Basketball would get 22 conference games.  Fine by me.  No more UC-Riverside and SIUE

Just a quick stab: 
Southern division (6) of Mo State, SIU, Evansville, Indiana State, ...........Murray.............. (and SLU/Belmont)
Northern division (6) of Drake, NIU, Bradley, Illinois State, Loyola, and Valpo

You could also do it with eleven and just have 5 in the South.   Realisitically, I don't think the NCAA money in most years is big and a 1/12 split vs 1/10 is nominal.

[wh]

Things to be thankful for:
•A 1/10 share of the MVC share of the NCAA tourney pot every year, instead of a 1/12 share.
•Having to out perform only 9 well respected, well coached D-1 Mid Major programs (instead of 11) to win the conference and/or conference tournament championship and make a return to the NCAA tournament.

[VULB#62]

Two ideas in this post.

1 -- I noticed that SIU will be hosting Murray State tonight (ESPN+).  Why haven't more MVC teams (and especially Valpo because we had a great thing going with the Racers for a while in the past) scheduled Murray in the aftermath of their bid to join the MVC?  It would be a great testing ground for future expansioon and it would give MVC teams a pretty good MM OOC opponent.  MSU would benefit as well with a number of MVC opponents on their OOC schedule.  From a Valpo perspective, they'd be a lot more attractive to have at the ARC than Purdue NW !

2 -- BTW, I agree with some on this board that waiting for a 12th team before expnding is not in the MVC's best interests anymore.  Maybe it was years ago.  But the P5/6 conferences are going to 20 game conference seasons and leaving MMs one less possibility for high level competition in their OOC games.  The convenience of travel partners for scheduling is not, IMO, a solid reason to deprive the conference of a good school like Murray state (even if it slightly tilts the scale toward state schools - MSU is not a commuter school which has been our HL experience and not really a good one). Going from a 1/10th share to a 1/11 share is not that great a loss in revenue, but that could, in the not too distant future, be offset by the MVC returning to a two-bid conference and adding revenue.

[EddieCabot]

Things to be thankful for:
•A 1/10 share of the MVC share of the NCAA tourney pot every year, instead of a 1/12 share.
•Having to out perform only 9 well respected, well coached D-1 Mid Major programs (instead of 11) to win the conference and/or conference tournament championship and make a return to the NCAA tournament.

I'm coming around to wh's way of thinking.  Unless, the commissioner thinks the conference could lose 1 or more teams to realignment (unlikely, IMO), the only reason to add teams is if it transforms the MVC to a consistent multi-bid league.  I know many people argue that adding Murray State would ensure multiple bids, but if you look at current MVC teams + Murray State over the last 10 seasons:

- 6 teams have not been to a single NCAAT
- 3 teams have been to the NCAAT as automatic qualifiers with seeds of #11 or higher (long-shots for autobids)
- 2 teams have been to the NCAAT as automatic qualifiers with single-digit seeds (NIU as #5 and #8, Murray St as #6)

Using those data points, I don't see any evidence an 11-team MVC would earn multiple bids on a consistent basis.  As proven in the 2017 MVC, having one clear-cut at-large team doesn't help you if that team also wins the conference tourney.  Just my  , so feel free to tell me where I'm wrong.

[VUGrad1314]

In a year like the MVC and Murray State had last year they I think they absolutely would have been a two bid league. Remember Murray State beat both SIU and Illinois State (the Illinois State game was on the road) and finished with a 48 RPI in a league ranked 21 full of RPI drags, put them in a league with better metrics and it's a boon to everyone's metrics. I think Murray State would have been neck and neck with Loyola last year and Murray State would have been at least a bubble team if not an at large.

[VUGrad1314]

Even if adding Murray State doesn't  lead to more bids if adding them sacrificing a few thousand dollars in tournament distribution money turning up the competition a bit and going to 20 conference games is what we have to do to get the non-D1s off the schedule and into the exhibition column where they belong then so be it. Who would you rather see come to the ARC in late December? An MVC team or a non-D1? I think we all know the answer to that. Plus having fewer nonconference slots reduces the "Oh we needed\wanted a game so we slapped this team on there" and should create better matchups. If you have less inventory you'll value what you have and use it more judiciously.

[EddieCabot]

In a year like the MVC and Murray State had last year they I think they absolutely would have been a two bid league. Remember Murray State beat both SIU and Illinois State (the Illinois State game was on the road) and finished with a 48 RPI in a league ranked 21 full of RPI drags, put them in a league with better metrics and it's a boon to everyone's metrics. I think Murray State would have been neck and neck with Loyola last year and Murray State would have been at least a bubble team if not an at large.

Like I said, if you believe that Murray State makes the MVC a consistent two-bid league, then add them.  I just don't see it, but I asked for dissenting views.  Currently, all MVC teams and Murray are 90+ in KenPom, so any at-large quality teams this year seems like a longshot.

[VUGrad1314]

It only takes 2 at large bids a decade to make a single addition worthwhile. I think Murray State could get us there.

[EddieCabot]

Even if adding Murray State doesn't  lead to more bids if adding them sacrificing a few thousand dollars in tournament distribution money turning up the competition a bit and going to 20 conference games is what we have to do to get the non-D1s off the schedule and into the exhibition column where they belong then so be it. Who would you rather see come to the ARC in late December? An MVC team or a non-D1? I think we all know the answer to that. Plus having fewer nonconference slots reduces the "Oh we needed\wanted a game so we slapped this team on there" and should create better matchups. If you have less inventory you'll value what you have and use it more judiciously.

I agree with the scheduling part of this.  Any time Valpo can get scheduling assistance through a MTE, conference challenge series or additional conference games, they should take it. 

[justducky]

It only takes 2 at large bids a decade to make a single addition worthwhile. I think Murray State could get us there.

I'm watching the SIU-Murray St game and have quickly concluded that the Racers are the best team in the Valley.

Wait! You say we never invited them in?        Never mind

[FieldGoodie05]

Even if adding Murray State doesn't  lead to more bids if adding them sacrificing a few thousand dollars in tournament distribution money turning up the competition a bit and going to 20 conference games is what we have to do to get the non-D1s off the schedule and into the exhibition column where they belong then so be it. Who would you rather see come to the ARC in late December? An MVC team or a non-D1? I think we all know the answer to that. Plus having fewer nonconference slots reduces the "Oh we needed\wanted a game so we slapped this team on there" and should create better matchups. If you have less inventory you'll value what you have and use it more judiciously.

1 unit = $265,000 in 2017
1/10th = $26,500
1/11th = $24,090
1/12th = $22,084

Just for a frame of reference.  I had to look it up myself.  Are we really ONLY sacrificing that little to go to 12 teams?  Anyone know how much "other" money is sacrificed in the 12 team MVC?

Also, that's assuming we split evenly the 1 unit, no clue the MVC rules for profit sharing.

[justducky]

It only takes 2 at large bids a decade to make a single addition worthwhile. I think Murray State could get us there.

I'm watching the SIU-Murray St game and have quickly concluded that the Racers are the best team in the Valley.

Wait! You say we never invited them in?        Never mind

SIU got a late bucket to end an 11 minute famine. 49-18 halftime in Carbondale.

An hour ago I was leaning towards agreement with those wanting to keep Murray out.