Possible Missouri Valley Conference Expansion

[oklahomamick]

I used to enjoy reading conference expansion.  Now I just want our house fixed before thinking about the neighborhood. 

[VU2014]

I used to enjoy reading conference expansion.  Now I just want our house fixed before thinking about the neighborhood. 

Amen. I feel the same way.

[VUGrad1314]

Looks like all quiet on the expansion front.

https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1102624551408672770

[VUGrad1314]

Meanwhile on the Murray State board...

https://www.racerfans.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19101&sid=82fbb8df713a357f8d157efafdbf3d01

It is sad yet understandable why they have this thread. Thank goodness most of the fans are still on board with joining should an invitation come. I can only hope their decision makers still feel the same way.

The conference just had a bad year...

Murray State still wants in...

Belmont might miss the dance...

Lipscomb will miss the dance...

NKU clearly wants out...

So does Wright State...

Even SDSU just misstepped in a conference they own and future moves as soon as this year may bring instability to the WAC and Summit...

The time to act is now and for the good of the conference the MVC needs to act...

[IrishDawg]

Meanwhile on the Murray State board...

https://www.racerfans.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19101&sid=82fbb8df713a357f8d157efafdbf3d01

It is sad yet understandable why they have this thread. Thank goodness most of the fans are still on board with joining should an invitation come. I can only hope their decision makers still feel the same way.

The conference just had a bad year...

Murray State still wants in...

Belmont might miss the dance...

Lipscomb will miss the dance...

NKU clearly wants out...

So does Wright State...

Even SDSU just misstepped in a conference they own and future moves as soon as this year may bring instability to the WAC and Summit...

The time to act is now and for the good of the conference the MVC needs to act...

The thing is, while the MVC's bottom is miles ahead of the bottom of the OVC, teams aren't missing out on at-large berths because of them beating up on the bottom of the league.  They're missing out because the top of the league isn't good enough to generate those "Quad 1"/Top 50/(insert random metric)" wins.  They aren't getting that in the OVC.  Would they get it in the MVC?  I'd say there's a better chance, but Loyola, despite running roughshod over a better version of the MVC last year and getting a win at Florida still would have likely missed the tournament.

Now if Murray State had been in the league, I think it might have put them on more solid footing, but it also would have likely meant that one of them wasn't going dancing too, much like the situation they have this year with them and Belmont.  IMO, I agree that it's a no-brainer to add Murray State to strengthen the MVC, but I also don't think it's a move that's going to generate more bids.  In a league like the Big Ten this year, Indiana can lose 12 out of 13 and still be in the mix (and in a pretty good spot actually) to beat out a team like Belmont or Lipscomb because they have so many high profile wins, and those teams, whether they're in the OVC or the MVC just aren't going to have those opportunities.

[crusaderjoe]

I agree with you. Just as a stand alone Valpo add would not make the MVC a multiple bid conference, a stand alone Murray add will not generate multiple bids either.  That said, for arguments sake, I still wonder whether this answer can be found in Las Cruces instead of Nashville at least during the immediate interim. 

[crusadermoe]

SLU or bust.   We are just nibbling around the edges with all the other candidates.

Are they on the Atlantic?.... or are in they in Missouri and in a valley?   

They can be data-driven or they can be self-congratulatory.

[VUGrad1314]

MVC board starting to warm to and get really vocal about adding Murray State and NKU. It would be a solid move for the conference. 72 wins in 3 years 2 NCAA 1 NIT media presence in Cincinnati 12 tournament appearances between 1995-2012 in D2 with a great arena that would draw well in the MVC is nothing to look askance at.

[oklahomamick]

I'm down for anything that hurts the HL and eventually costs LeCrone his job. And I hope Butler doesn't make the NCAAT.

[elephtheria47]

Butler isn't going to make the tourney this year. Nku is interesting and trending upward. Have a nice arena and have the Cincy market. Obviously,  they are displeased with the HL. Wonder where they end up.

[IrishDawg]

I'm down for anything that hurts the HL and eventually costs LeCrone his job. And I hope Butler doesn't make the NCAAT.

Why are you even hoping at this point?  It's a lock.

Also, I think it's pretty unlikely the private institutions (including Valpo) in the MVC would approve taking 2 public universities, which would create an imbalance.

[oklahomamick]

If I'm NKU I'm going to the Atlantic Sun.

[VUGrad1314]

If I'm NKU I'm going to the Atlantic Sun.

Great plan. Stifle the growth of your program by increasing travel costs to go to a worse league. Liberty won't be there forever and Lipscomb will probably look for a better fit should a spot in the OVC open up.

[bigmosmithfan1]

Are they on the Atlantic?.... or are in they in Missouri and in a valley?   

They can be data-driven or they can be self-congratulatory.

Or they can be in a multi-bid league consistently or one that is gonna struggle to send two.

(But seriously, they are in a league with five other Catholic institutions now, vs. joining a league with only one other. Don't undersell that -- it's probably a big reason they feel allegiance to the A-10 despite being out on an island geographically).

[craftyrighthander]

SLU has no interest in joining the MVC.  They've been there and done that many moons ago.  They still harbor hopes (unrealistic) of the Big East.

I don't get the disdain for Butler.  They've built a national brand, and they've had a long period of sustained success. Butler's down year this year does nothing to raise Valpo's profile. 

[oklahomamick]

Don't know about other years, but this year RPI has Atlantic Sun ahead of the HL.  I would assume that to be true for last year as well since the HL was trash.  I know NKU did a study before they were granted D1 status and it reveiled the HL was better for travel.  However, the winter months I would want to travel and play my games south as opposed to Green Bay, Milwaukee, Detroit and Cleveland.

[may know]

It is on the MVC to recognize an external opportunity to enhance the league with 2 schools who'd accept in a millisecond (Murray, NKU).

Worst comes to worst, you end up where you before. Maybe it adds a second bid sometimes, maybe it doesn't. But it improves your chances to add units (which is what really counts). Especially this year, I'd trust Murray to win a game much more than Bradley.

[VUGrad1314]

Meanwhile on the HL board...

http://horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net/thread/1150/long-before-nku

[VULB#62]

It is on the MVC to recognize an external opportunity to enhance the league with 2 schools who'd accept in a millisecond (Murray, NKU).

Worst comes to worst, you end up where you before. Maybe it adds a second bid sometimes, maybe it doesn't. But it improves your chances to add units (which is what really counts). Especially this year, I'd trust Murray to win a game much more than Bradley.

In one projection: Bradley (MVC) #15,  Murray (OVC) #12

[FWalum]

But it improves your chances to add units (which is what really counts).

Fans against adding Murray, Belmont, NKU and others always site the assumption that we won't get a second bid so we will be just diluting the tournament dollars. may know hits on the key point that this is not just about bids, but about seeding and the potential for better seeding leading to more potential wins and more units. So while I would love for the MVC to get multiple bids, I think the current climate is such that mid major conferences should be looking to get more units by achieving better seeding for their one bid representatives. Adding a "Murray State" type program (or two) would help the conference continue to get multiple units on a yearly basis.

I hope that Bradley continues the MVC streak of winning first round games, but that might be a difficult chore given the seed they will most likely receive. Some of the fault for the low seed falls squarely on this year's poor conference performance.  Maybe the reduced revenue will motivate the conference presidents to look at adding an eleventh team despite the scheduling issues.

[VUGrad1314]

But it improves your chances to add units (which is what really counts).

Fans against adding Murray, Belmont, NKU and others always site the assumption that we won't get a second bid so we will be just diluting the tournament dollars. may know hits on the key point that this is not just about bids, but about seeding and the potential for better seeding leading to more potential wins and more units. So while I would love for the MVC to get multiple bids, I think the current climate is such that mid major conferences should be looking to get more units by achieving better seeding for their one bid representatives. Adding a "Murray State" type program (or two) would help the conference continue to get multiple units on a yearly basis. I hope that Bradley continues the MVC streak of winning first round games, but that might be a difficult chore given the seed they will most likely receive. Some of the fault for the low seed falls squarely on this year's poor conference performance.  Maybe the reduced revenue will motivate the conference presidents to look at adding an eleventh team despite the scheduling issues.

Maybe missing the tournament will motivate Belmont to move. Then we can all be happy.


That or they can roll the dice on what looks to be a pretty safe upside gamble on NKU.


That said I have always been for Murray State and an 11\20 format.

[wh]

But it improves your chances to add units (which is what really counts).

Fans against adding Murray, Belmont, NKU and others always site the assumption that we won't get a second bid so we will be just diluting the tournament dollars. may know hits on the key point that this is not just about bids, but about seeding and the potential for better seeding leading to more potential wins and more units. So while I would love for the MVC to get multiple bids, I think the current climate is such that mid major conferences should be looking to get more units by achieving better seeding for their one bid representatives. Adding a "Murray State" type program (or two) would help the conference continue to get multiple units on a yearly basis.

I hope that Bradley continues the MVC streak of winning first round games, but that might be a difficult chore given the seed they will most likely receive. Some of the fault for the low seed falls squarely on this year's poor conference performance.  Maybe the reduced revenue will motivate the conference presidents to look at adding an eleventh team despite the scheduling issues.

Murray State is a dominant program in a weak league comparable to the Mid Con when Valpo was a member. How that translates to the MVC is anyone's guess. If they're even middle of the pack, they add absolutely no value. If they're good to very good, they become 1 more obstacle in Valpo's way to winning the conference tournament championship and getting back to the Big Dance. While I get that they might help the conference NET/RPI, it's far from a guarantee. Even if they do help it, what kind of a trade off is that for making it that much harder for Valpo to get not only where we want to go, but where we need to go. If we don't start creating some separation soon, we are going to settle in as just another run-of-the-mill MVC program.

There are times when people try to overthink, to their own detriment. That's what I'm sensing is going on here with some of these posts. It's like switching employers, and at the same time youre trying to earn everyone's respect and position yourself for advancement, you're lobbying senior leadership to bring in top notch talent to directly compete against because it'll make the company stronger. No one with any sense of self preservation would ever do that under those circumstances. Now, once you become a seasoned veteran and a consistent outstanding performer (think Wichita State after Creighton left), recommend away without the slightest concern for your own wellbeing.

[VUGrad1314]

Murray State is about to send its third player to the NBA in seven years it has multiple tourney wins and multiple top 25 finishes this decade. They've also weathered multiple coaching transitions they're not just a one family program. Besides that their fans travel and their administration cares about athletics. They would be fine in this league. I want to be part of a multibid league. I want Valpo to truly be ready for the tournament if they get there. I'm tired of one and dones and near misses. I'm tired of living off of one play that soon nobody on our roster will have even been alive to see. I want more and as strange as it sounds adding more good teams will help us get it.

[justducky]

Murray State is a dominant program in a very weak league comparable to the Mid Con when Valpo was a member. How that translates to the MVC is anyone's guess. If they're even middle of the pack, they add absolutely no value. If they're good to very good, they become 1 more obstacle in Valpo's way to winning the conference tournament championship and getting back to the Big Dance. While I get that they might help the conference NET/RPI, it's far from a guarantee. Even if they do help it, what kind of a trade off is that for making it that much harder for Valpo to get not only where we want to go, but where we need to go. If we don't start creating some separation soon, we are going to settle in as just another run-of-the-mill MVC program.

You need to totally separate your MVC vs VU thinking. What is best for the Valley and for us may not always be in perfect alignment.

Personally, the more major obstacles we face the better I like it. If we can return to usually being a top 100 program I'll take my chances with the rest of it.

[VUGrad1314]

But it improves your chances to add units (which is what really counts).

Fans against adding Murray, Belmont, NKU and others always site the assumption that we won't get a second bid so we will be just diluting the tournament dollars. may know hits on the key point that this is not just about bids, but about seeding and the potential for better seeding leading to more potential wins and more units. So while I would love for the MVC to get multiple bids, I think the current climate is such that mid major conferences should be looking to get more units by achieving better seeding for their one bid representatives. Adding a "Murray State" type program (or two) would help the conference continue to get multiple units on a yearly basis.

I hope that Bradley continues the MVC streak of winning first round games, but that might be a difficult chore given the seed they will most likely receive. Some of the fault for the low seed falls squarely on this year's poor conference performance.  Maybe the reduced revenue will motivate the conference presidents to look at adding an eleventh team despite the scheduling issues.

Murray State is a dominant program in a weak league comparable to the Mid Con when Valpo was a member. How that translates to the MVC is anyone's guess. If they're even middle of the pack, they add absolutely no value. If they're good to very good, they become 1 more obstacle in Valpo's way to winning the conference tournament championship and getting back to the Big Dance. While I get that they might help the conference NET/RPI, it's far from a guarantee. Even if they do help it, what kind of a trade off is that for making it that much harder for Valpo to get not only where we want to go, but where we need to go. If we don't start creating some separation soon, we are going to settle in as just another run-of-the-mill MVC program.

There are times when people try to overthink, to their own detriment. That's what I'm sensing is going on here with some of these posts. It's like switching employers, and at the same time youre trying to earn everyone's respect and position yourself for advancement, you're lobbying senior leadership to bring in top notch talent to directly compete against because it'll make the company stronger. No one with any sense of self preservation would ever do that under those circumstances. Now, once you become a seasoned veteran and a consistent outstanding performer (think Wichita State after Creighton left), recommend away without the slightest concern for your own wellbeing.

You were pro Valpo to MVC now you're against the MVC getting stronger. What's best for Valpo depends largely on how committed they are to winning and doing what's necessary to win. If they're committed this is a great move if not it's not as great. That has nothing to do with Murray State. The more tough tests and the tougher the schedule the better. Iron sharpens iron unless of course we're not really (and never were) iron.