Possible Missouri Valley Conference Expansion

[valpopal]

[tweet]1438980636468031488[/tweet]

[elephtheria47]

Just looked at Murray St message board to see what I could find. Lots of chatter there. Two pieces I found interesting

A) someone mentioned they turned down a meeting with the MVC earlier this week (before it was known Belmont was going to be joining)

B) there's speculation about joining the AAC and their president was in Dallas, headquarters of the AAC, the last three days.

Seems like they're going to be moving but where? Majority of their board is excited about potentially joining the MVC. Obviously if AAC is a possibility the TV money and contract makes that a no brainer.

Update: the above got me to check with some sources. Murray State is coming as well.  Great great news.

[VUGrad1314]

Wow. I go on a trip and (half of) the news I have hoped for since 2017 finally breaks! I'm so happy for Belmont and especially for the MVC! This makes the conference better and gets the MVC into a thriving new market. It's a huge win. Now I just hope Murray State is the 12th but I'm guessing football will be an issue there. Can the MVC schools in the MVFC exert enough pressure to get the Racers into the MVFC? Would an agreement that the SL would get the next MVFC invitation (possibly St Thomas) be enough? I saw on the Murray State board that their AD or president was in Dallas recently but no one is sure exactly why. I saw three theories:

1. Murray State is talking to another conference (posters mentioned the AAC) I think this one is extremely unlikely

2. They are talking to donors in the area (possible) or

3. They are talking to the Southland in order to secure a FB-only membership (This is the most likely of the three)

If #3 is the case then I commend Murray State for making a huge commitment to their flagship sport being so willing to join a better basketball league that they are willing to send their football team to Louisiana to get it done. I still hope they can get into the MVFC because that would certainly be better for them.

Getting back to the MVC if the addition is not Murray State the shortlist for me is as follows:

1. Little Rock (only ahead of ORU because they are a public)

2. Oral Roberts 

3. Northern Kentucky

4. South Dakota State (but they would probably have to increase their budget in order to get in).

Anyone else and I will feel like the MVC didn't really gain as much as they could have from their expansion. I really hope it's Murray State. They just make too much sense given the geographic footprint and ready made rivalries available with Belmont Evansville and SIU especially.

A great conference just got a lot better!

Don't discount what this does for Women's basketball either. If my memory serves Belmont has had a few seasons recently where they were ranked for at least a taime and just won an NCAA Tournament game last year in women's basketball. Missouri State is obviously the standard bearer in that sport but they just got some competition. I could see women's basketball becoming a prerennial 2-3 bid league there too. Moreover, women's basketball is a major reason why South Dakota State made my shortlist. The conference would become insanely good in that sport.

[wh]

Murray State put on the full court press hoping to replace Wichita State.  Public announcements by their President, articles in the paper promoting their market and proximity to other MVC schools, the whole 9. The Valley is better now than it was then, and they would have a travel partner and familiar foe in Belmont this time around, not to mention that the OVC will soon become a shell of its former self. Rumors that they may not be interested this time make no sense. I'll bet money they're dying to get in again. The league contemplated 11 the last time around. They may not see the urgency to go to 12 just because we do. Good teams will always be looking to get into the MVC. We are holding a lot of cards most other mids aren't.

[VUGrad1314]

I sincerely hope we are going to 12 and that Murray State is that 12th team. I hope whatever is holding that up is just something like the need to convene their board of regents or because the Dakotas are being sticks in the mud on the football side because the idea that the MVC would not sit at 11 for Murray State but would do so for Belmont is an unconscionable slap in the face to a terrific and proud program steeped in tradition. It just makes too much sense for both sides not to happen. Does anybody know what's holding it up?

[valpotx]

Murray State has/had 0 chance of getting an AAC invite.  That is just wishful thinking on behalf of their fanbase. 

Hopefully it is true that they and Belmont are coming to the MVC, as this is where both belong!

[elephtheria47]

I have heard it's done, it's just a matter of making it public. May be something legal about getting out, but Murray to MVC is dunzo.

[may know]

How good is your source, eleptheria? I really hope you're right on Murray. Haven't been this excited since the day we got in. Gotta admit, I'm pretty nervous.

[vu72]

If the Valley gets both Belmont and Murray will the Valley be the BEST Mid-major or will the A-10 or West Coast till claim superiority? Will we be AAC depth wise?

[elephtheria47]

Feel pretty confident about it or wouldn't have shared it. it's just not one person's thought (shared some screenshots) and they write for a national CBB publication so there's multiple points of contact with media, staff, players, etc.. They broke a CBB story just last week and he alerted me a few days before it broke, so there's recent history of being accurate with early information. Of course things can get derailed at anytime before they are completely finalized or published, so will keep an ear out. I'm still nervous too because I wanted this since we joined and it looks to be finally happening. Would be extremely disappointing if it doesn't happen.

Also got a peak of their MVC preview. They have Valpo coming in 6th, AJ Green as POY, Drew Valentine as COY, and Kobe King newcomer of Year. Projects MVC as multiple bid league again with the top 4 (Loy, Drake, NoIA, and MoSt) having NCAAT potential.

[Just Sayin]

Also got a peak of their MVC preview. They have Valpo coming in 6th, AJ Green as POY, Drew Valentine as COY, and Kobe King newcomer of Year. Projects MVC as multiple bid league again with the top 4 (Loy, Drake, NoIA, and MoSt) having NCAAT potential.

Well that settles it I guess. Mediocrity is our fate this year.

[wh]

Also got a peak of their MVC preview. They have Valpo coming in 6th, AJ Green as POY, Drew Valentine as COY, and Kobe King newcomer of Year. Projects MVC as multiple bid league again with the top 4 (Loy, Drake, NoIA, and MoSt) having NCAAT potential.

Well that settles it I guess. Mediocrity is our fate this year.

Except for one thing. A combination of a completely reworked roster, D-1 major transfers, and a high profile recruiting class coupled with a lack of past success makes it impossible to assess how good this team will be. Thus, Valpo is placed through process of elimination. Take the good teams you're familiar with and rank them 1 through whatever. Then take the bad teams you're familiar with and rank them 10 through whatever. Wherever those 2 groups groups meet, there's Valpo. It's not only meaningless, it's ridiculous.

[bb33]

I am okay with a preseason 6th.  We finished tied for 5th last year.  Have us middle of the pack.  That's better than at the bottom.  Now we prove that we are much higher than that.  When you start high, there is no place to go but down.  The end of season standings are what really matters. 

[vok22]

Wasn't Drake projected to be a Thursday team last year. Certainly bottom 5 if I am remembering correctly. They surprised pretty much everybody and now a year later they are being treated with a lot more respect. I think that should be the goal for us this year. Not surprised at all we would be projected to finish in the bottom half, too much roster turnover to say anything for certain. It is annoying me, however, to see a lot of fans of other MVC fans writing this team off simply because it's comprised of a lot of former highly touted recruits and power 5 transfers. They say that never works out for a team. I would agree if we just added a couple power 5 benchwarmers that never panned out jump on board. Thats not the case though, these guys have all proved themselves. Kobe King was the leading scorer in conference play for Wisconsin, Anderson was a highly respected 6th man in the big 10, Kithier started 14 games for Michigan State. Joe Hedstrom would be the only one that fits the description of not panning out and that may only be because he was injured. Not to mention Kevin Taylor averaged 21 ppg and on efficient shooting at the D2 level. Will he score 21 a game at the D1 level? Probably not, but the hoop is still 10 feet tall and 2 basketballs wide as Gene Hackman would point out. He can score. I also cannot believe Krikke was only a sophomore last year. He was phenomenal. I cannot wait to see what he can do with all these other options around him. He may not touch the ball as much but I think he is going to be even more efficient and he really is fun to watch in the post. I hate to put a jinx on us, but there is almost no possible way we aren't significantly better than we were last year. And that is looking at proven product on the court. In come 3 talents that have proven their skills on a power 5 level. Out goes Daniel Sackey, a MAJOR liability on BOTH ends of the court, and Donovan Clay who, albeit talented, still could not prove to be an efficient scoring option at the MVC level. The improvement in 3 point shooting percentage alone would net us 4 additional wins on last years schedule. I am excited for this team. Will they compete for an MVC championship this year? I wouldn't go that far yet just because there certainly will be some things to sort out with team chemistry, although I like what I am seeing so far. And coaching is another concern. But if Lottich doesn't find a way to screw up this proven offensive talent, I think an MVC championship is within reason. But without answers to those questions, I dont blame journalists for not putting us in the top half. If I had to make my own projection for the league I would have us at 5 with significant upside.

[Just Sayin]

My sarcasm apparently went unnoticed. Preseason rankings are worthless.

[VUGrad1314]

Belmont is expected to be the only addition at this time. That is very disappointing if true. This article also said that there's institutional resistance to Murray State. These University Presidents need to get over themselves and do what's best for the conference.  You can argue that as a candidate Murray State checks more boxes than Belmont. I hope they rectify this soon because refusing to go to 11 for Murray State but doing it for Belmont is a slap in the face to a great program as I've mentioned before.

https://www.tribstar.com/sports/belmont-set-to-enter-mvc-on-tuesday/article_c8c7e4f4-1fc4-11ec-a24b-f3a63d8670b0.html

I will be disappointed if we stay at 11 and leave Murray State on the table but on the plus side Belmont's announcement is scheduled for tomorrow morning.

https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/1442603056986681344

[VU2014]

Belmont is expected to be the only addition at this time. That is very disappointing if true. This article also said that there's institutional resistance to Murray State. These University Presidents need to get over themselves and do what's best for the conference.  You can argue that as a candidate Murray State checks more boxes than Belmont. I hope they rectify this soon because refusing to go to 11 for Murray State but doing it for Belmont is a slap in the face to a great program as I've mentioned before.

https://www.tribstar.com/sports/belmont-set-to-enter-mvc-on-tuesday/article_c8c7e4f4-1fc4-11ec-a24b-f3a63d8670b0.html

I will be disappointed if we stay at 11 and leave Murray State on the table but on the plus side Belmont's announcement is scheduled for tomorrow morning.

https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/1442603056986681344

Murray State, long mentioned as a possibility, has hurdles to overcome (it would have to find a home for its football program and there is some institutional resistance to Murray inside the MVC), but should still be considered an attractive candidate. The Racers will likely be looking for a move out of the OVC, which is losing its strongest members.

Interesting nugget in the article. I have to think this is academics related. Murray checks the basketball program box, which is the biggest one in my book. Based in the midwest has had recent success.

One thing to keep in mind is now days the unit shares for high Team GPAs is more and more important. There is $ involved for having strong academic sports teams. I'm not sure if that's a factor.

If Murray gets left in the OVC that would be an awful situation for that Athletics Department. The OVC already wasn't that strong outside a few programs. With Belmont and others leaving it becomes Murray and not much else. Also going to the Horizon League wouldn't be strategically smart (no football) and if they are hoping for a MVC lifeline in the next season or two, why would they two buy and exit fees. They are in a really tough spot if the MVC doesn't extend an invite.

[VUGrad1314]

Belmont is expected to be the only addition at this time. That is very disappointing if true. This article also said that there's institutional resistance to Murray State. These University Presidents need to get over themselves and do what's best for the conference.  You can argue that as a candidate Murray State checks more boxes than Belmont. I hope they rectify this soon because refusing to go to 11 for Murray State but doing it for Belmont is a slap in the face to a great program as I've mentioned before. https://www.tribstar.com/sports/belmont-set-to-enter-mvc-on-tuesday/article_c8c7e4f4-1fc4-11ec-a24b-f3a63d8670b0.html I will be disappointed if we stay at 11 and leave Murray State on the table but on the plus side Belmont's announcement is scheduled for tomorrow morning. https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/1442603056986681344

Murray State, long mentioned as a possibility, has hurdles to overcome (it would have to find a home for its football program and there is some institutional resistance to Murray inside the MVC), but should still be considered an attractive candidate. The Racers will likely be looking for a move out of the OVC, which is losing its strongest members.

Interesting nugget in the article. I have to think this is academics related. Murray checks the basketball program box, which is the biggest one in my book. Based in the midwest has had recent success. One thing to keep in mind is now days the unit shares for high Team GPAs is more and more important. There is $ involved for having strong academic sports teams. I'm not sure if that's a factor. If Murray gets left in the OVC that would be an awful situation for that Athletics Department. The OVC already wasn't that strong outside a few programs. With Belmont and others leaving it becomes Murray and not much else. Also going to the Horizon League wouldn't be strategically smart (no football) and if they are hoping for a MVC lifeline in the next season or two, why would they two buy and exit fees. They are in a really tough spot if the MVC doesn't extend an invite.

They had Wichita State in the league for decades and now academics are an issue? Give me a break. Also this is an athletics conference. Why do we care whether a school is high enough in the US News and World Reports rankings? How bad can Murray State's academics honestly be? I mean didn't the MVC vet Oral Roberts awhile back? That's not exactly an academic powerhouse.

[vu84v2]

Also got a peak of their MVC preview. They have Valpo coming in 6th, AJ Green as POY, Drew Valentine as COY, and Kobe King newcomer of Year. Projects MVC as multiple bid league again with the top 4 (Loy, Drake, NoIA, and MoSt) having NCAAT potential.

Well that settles it I guess. Mediocrity is our fate this year.

Except for one thing. A combination of a completely reworked roster, D-1 major transfers, and a high profile recruiting class coupled with a lack of past success makes it impossible to assess how good this team will be. Thus, Valpo is placed through process of elimination. Take the good teams you're familiar with and rank them 1 through whatever. Then take the bad teams you're familiar with and rank them 10 through whatever. Wherever those 2 groups groups meet, there's Valpo. It's not only meaningless, it's ridiculous.

Here is what these pundits might really be thinking (or at least should be):

All we do is sit around here and guess what a bunch of little p%&*$s are gonna go and do out there, then we come back <later>, and we complain 'cause they didn't do exactly what we thought they'd do. We don't know. Of course we don't know. We're not in the locker rooms with them. We're not on the <court> with them. We can't look 'em in the eyes and encourage them to be better than they ever thought they were capable of being. We're just... we're just on the outside looking in. Judging them. (modified Roy Kent quote)

[VUGrad1314]

Could Murray State seriously go FBS? I really hope we don't lose them to another lesser basketball conference just because of football or university president squabbling.

https://twitter.com/low_madness/status/1442652824807092226

[VU2014]

For the record I'm in favor of adding Murray. But if I had to guess what some University Admins are thinking, it has to do with academics. Murray adds another 2 strong or at minimum, interesting games to the schedule. I'm really curious, what the reason is for some schools? Not wanting to split shares 12 ways? Not likely.

Being fussy about Murray joining the conference sounds like something Bradley & Loyola's Admin would pick a fight about. (pure speculation by my part...)

Could Murray State seriously go FBS? I really hope we don't lose them to another lesser basketball conference just because of football or university president squabbling.

https://twitter.com/low_madness/status/1442652824807092226

I've spoke with a few Murray fans and they've told me Basketball is priority number one at that school. So if we were to offer they'd jump at the opportunity over the ASUN invite.

[wh]

They had Wichita State in the league for decades and now academics are an issue? Give me a break.

Speaking of which, don't count Wichita State out. Today's AAC is not the league it was in 2018. WSU is going to be losing a ton of football windfall revenue that was part of their agreement with the AAC. The AAC will undoubtedly take a big hit on NCAA bb tournament revenue sharing, as well. They've lost major markets, and TV revenues will fall off. Last, but not least, the AAC needs football schools right now.

In the meantime, the Valley has elevated its status with multiple bids and deep tournament runs. Adding Belmont is the cherry on top. From an MVC perspective it's a no-brainer. WSU is perennial tournament team, they maintain the public/private balance at 6 each, it gives each team 22 conference games at a time when OOC scheduling has become a nightmare, and 12 teams are easier to schedule than 11.

Here's a pretty interesting article talking about WSU's situation:

Was Wichita State's Valley exit still worth it?https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.midmajormadness.com/platform/amp/2021/9/10/22663910/wichita-state-big-12-expansion-shockers-aac-american-realignment-candidate-missouri-valley-mvc

[VU2014]

They had Wichita State in the league for decades and now academics are an issue? Give me a break.

Speaking of which, don't count Wichita State out. Today's AAC is not the league it was in 2018. WSU is going to be losing a ton of football windfall revenue that was part of their agreement with the AAC. The AAC will undoubtedly take a big hit on NCAA bb tournament revenue sharing, as well. They've lost major markets, and TV revenues will fall off. Last, but not least, the AAC needs football schools right now.

In the meantime, the Valley has elevated its status with multiple bids and deep tournament runs. Adding Belmont is the cherry on top. From an MVC perspective it's a no-brainer. WSU is perennial tournament team, they maintain the public/private balance at 6 each, it gives each team 22 conference games at a time when OOC scheduling has become a nightmare, and 12 teams are easier to schedule than 11.

Here's a pretty interesting article talking about WSU's situation:

Was Wichita State's Valley exit still worth it?https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.midmajormadness.com/platform/amp/2021/9/10/22663910/wichita-state-big-12-expansion-shockers-aac-american-realignment-candidate-missouri-valley-mvc

I would love to see Wichita State come back to the MVC but I don't see their egos allowing that to ever happen

[valpo95]

Let's celebrate the fact that Belmont is joining the MVC. Although the payouts are slightly impacted by adding one more in the denominator and eleven teams is unwieldy from a scheduling perspective, Belmont is value add to the league on so many fronts. Perhaps even more important, it puts the MVC in a much stronger position should one or more teams leave. Imagine if the A-10 or Big East makes a strong push for Loyola and they were to leave the MVC. Without Belmont, this puts the league at nine teams and makes it look weak. With eleven teams with Belmont and the opportunity to add one more, the league is being proactive, bringing in one of the best possible mid-majors to the conference. It also makes it less likely that any current member would leave.

[vu72]

They had Wichita State in the league for decades and now academics are an issue? Give me a break.

Actually, academics IS an issue, since 2020 which is AFTER Wichita State left the conference.

https://www.ncaa.org/academic-based-revenue-distribution