Possible Missouri Valley Conference Expansion

[FWalum]

Not saying I agree with them, but the latest March to the Arch podcast lays out several reasons Murray may not be the best choice, at least at this time.

[VUGrad1314]

Not saying I agree with them, but the latest March to the Arch podcast lays out several reasons Murray may not be the best choice, at least at this time.

The dude beating the counterargument drum is a huge SIU homer and is worried about SIU losing status and enrollment by having a second team right in their market. I don't really put much stock in his claims in light of his bias.

[VU2014]

The MVC isn't finished expanding

https://twitter.com/drakedawgs/status/1443588276279906309?s=21

https://twitter.com/clifsmart/status/1442879352048340999?s=21

[may know]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the March to the Arch guys were the same ones talking about SLU and Wichita earlier. If so, I would not consider them knowledgeable on realignment.

Also, I recall the SIU homer disliking Murray in past years. 

[vok22]

Welcome Murray State !

[wh]

The Missouri Valley Conference might expand...into Texas?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.extrapointsmb.com/conference-realignment-mvc-sun-belt-ut-arlington-belmont-cleveland-state/amp/

This article has made the rounds before, but just now is the first time I have looked at it in depth. The author went to great pains to find out if the league has had any discussion with Texas - Arlington, and I don't think there's much doubt they have - possibly more than we know. Where I wrote off this possibly as silly and probably no truth to it, I now feel there is probably a lot of truth to it, plus I no longer feel the notion is silly, at all. In fact, I'm actually intrigued by it and feel it deserves serious consideration as the MVC's next move.

[VUGrad1314]

The Missouri Valley Conference might expand...into Texas? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.extrapointsmb.com/conference-realignment-mvc-sun-belt-ut-arlington-belmont-cleveland-state/amp/ This article has made the rounds before, but just now is the first time I have looked at it in depth. The author went to great pains to find out if the league has had any discussion with Texas - Arlington, and I don't think there's much doubt they have - possibly more than we know. Where I wrote off this possibly as silly and probably no truth to it, I now feel there is probably a lot of truth to it, plus I no longer feel the notion is silly, at all. In fact, I'm actually intrigued by it and feel it deserves serious consideration as the MVC's next move.

They'd be a terrific add if only their program wasn't terrible with absolutely no tradition. Moreover they would ruin the distinction we own as a conference of being one of seven conferences that has had every member win at least one tournament game. I'm really hoping the Murray State rumor is true. That is the way to go right now. Arlington can come later if they show a pulse in basketball. Until then, super hard pass. The market is appealing but not much else. Adding Arlington is adding just to add and we shouldn't be in that business. Nobody wants to fly their programs to Texas to visit a bad deadweight program. When they get better they can come aboard but not before. Don't compare them to Loyola. Loyola had tradition before they hit the doldrums. Arlington has none. I want to see more than promises to invest to invite a program with no tradition.

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/kysportsradio/status/1443741393730646023?s=21

[wh]

The Missouri Valley Conference might expand...into Texas? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.extrapointsmb.com/conference-realignment-mvc-sun-belt-ut-arlington-belmont-cleveland-state/amp/ This article has made the rounds before, but just now is the first time I have looked at it in depth. The author went to great pains to find out if the league has had any discussion with Texas - Arlington, and I don't think there's much doubt they have - possibly more than we know. Where I wrote off this possibly as silly and probably no truth to it, I now feel there is probably a lot of truth to it, plus I no longer feel the notion is silly, at all. In fact, I'm actually intrigued by it and feel it deserves serious consideration as the MVC's next move.

They'd be a terrific add if only their program wasn't terrible with absolutely no tradition. Moreover they would ruin the distinction we own as a conference of being one of seven conferences that has had every member win at least one tournament game. I'm really hoping the Murray State rumor is true. That is the way to go right now. Arlington can come later if they show a pulse in basketball. Until then, super hard pass. The market is appealing but not much else. Adding Arlington is adding just to add and we shouldn't be in that business. Nobody wants to fly their programs to Texas to visit a bad deadweight program. When they get better they can come aboard but not before. Don't compare them to Loyola. Loyola had tradition before they hit the doldrums. Arlington has none. I want to see more than promises to invest to invite a program with no tradition.

Don't misunderstand. Murray State is still my first choice.

[may know]

eleptheria's source looking good.

[VUGrad1314]

I wish we had more than this tweet to go on. Hopefully more will come out tomorrow. Surprised we haven't heard about a BOR meeting at Murray State or anything of the sort. Or any corroboration from other outlets\sources but I suppose that tweet came out pretty late in the day for any of that. Hopefully we'll hear something in the morning\early afternoon.

[VU2014]

I wish we had more than this tweet to go on. Hopefully more will come out tomorrow. Surprised we haven't heard about a BOR meeting at Murray State or anything of the sort. Or any corroboration from other outlets\sources but I suppose that tweet came out pretty late in the day for any of that. Hopefully we'll hear something in the morning\early afternoon.

Hypothetically, if we were to go to 14. Who would be the slam dunk adds?

I'm thinking there are really only 2: SLU and Wichita State. Both are extremely unlikely.

I wouldn't expand beyond 12 unless it was such an obvious add from a basketball, regional, academic, and potential add. Not sure I see anyone out there after Murray as of right now. Curious what others think.

[VUGrad1314]

I wish we had more than this tweet to go on. Hopefully more will come out tomorrow. Surprised we haven't heard about a BOR meeting at Murray State or anything of the sort. Or any corroboration from other outlets\sources but I suppose that tweet came out pretty late in the day for any of that. Hopefully we'll hear something in the morning\early afternoon.

Hypothetically, if we were to go to 14. Who would be the slam dunk adds? I'm think there are really only 2: SLU and Wichita State. Both are extremely unlikely. I wouldn't expand beyond 12 unless it was such an obvious add from a basketball, regional, academic, and potential add. Not sure I see out there after Murray as of right now.

I agree that SLU and WSU would be the ones we would target if we could get them (we won't be able to) But I've actually thought about this and came up with two categories a shortlist of schools I think might merit consideration right now (Not saying any of these are must adds necessarily) and a watchlist of schools that could potentially grow into Valley level contributors.


Shortlist (only realistic candidates so No SLU No WSU No Dayton)


Oral Roberts (4 all time tournament wins Good market Good baseball but not a great academic school and not much pull in Tulsa If they make another run next year though They might actually get in Improving facilities


Northern Kentucky Good market and facilities Standard bearer (alongside Wright State) in HL Not sure how much growth potential is left but would likely be my choice for a public add unless Milwaukee revives its program or South Dakota State improves its budget


South Dakota State State flagship solid overall department Good women's basketball Threat to win tournament games every year (Applies to NKU as well) But small state Not a huge population center\recruiting area


Little Rock 2 All time tournament wins Would benefit a lot joining a basketball conference with a tighter footprint Brings new market in growing area Program is inconsistent though which gives me some pause.




Watchlist:


Milwaukee (3 all time tournament wins Big market good academics but bad program\fan support recently)


UIC Big market and good academics but really bad program and redundant with Loyola


Wright State Solid overall athletic department Good budget Decent market but limited share in that market but finances are a mess and they are fairly well out of the footprint (If they ever dropped out of D1 I would LOVE to get their baseball or volleyball team if they wanted to do one sport in D1 though)


North Dakota State Solid overall department State flagship but not much overall growth potential Smallish basketball budtet


St Thomas Good endowment and academics good market but too new


Bellarmine  See: St Thomas and honestly they are less appealing than St Thomas in almost every way


Lipscomb Great endowment Not much tradition in basketball Redundant with Belmont


Arlington Good Market  and academics Rapidly growing Good recruiting area Stated commitment to improve Bad basketball program Not much pull within market Would be on the shortlist if they got better though

[VUGrad1314]

Just saw this a little while ago and it got me thinking: Now a Murray in hand is worth two Wichitas in the bush BUT... I wouldn't fully count out a return of the Shockers if this comes to pass (especially if the Big XII goes to 16 taking both Memphis and SMU (as well as USF) from the American. Would Wichita State want to stay in an AAC that loses Cincinnati Houston Memphis SMU UCF and USF (I know those latter two aren't a huge loss in basketball but losing the Florida footprint sure is. Would they choose a Mountain West that is without Boise State (and possibly Colorado State and Air Force) in that scenario? They would if Gonzaga is coming too but would Gonzaga still want the Mountain West without Colorado State Air Force and Boise State two of which are solid basketball schools? Would Colorado State Air Force UAB (the current rumored AAC adds and whatever else the AAC adds be enough to keep them around? I'm not calling it likely but if the Big XII goes all the way to 16 as this video suggests is possible Wichita State might be left with no choice but to return especially if the MVC can establish itself as a 2-3 bid league with Murray and Belmont in the fold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bs0aPrAzSs

[wh]

Conference NET's '20-21:
• AAC 7
• A-10 9
• MVC 11

Absent Houston, Cincinnati, C. Florida, and Wichita State, the AAC's NET would drop significantly. With the addition of Belmont, Murray State, and Wichita State, I could see the MVC moving up 2 or 3 spots, which would close the gap with the AAC.

Add St. Louis to the mix, and the MVC would be equivalent to or possibly pass both the AAC and the A-10.

[valpopal]

With the addition of Belmont and Murray State, does the conference stay as a 12-team unit or is it tempted to split into two divisions as the Sun Belt (East-West) and MEAC (North-South) do with their teams? The MAC had an East-West division for its 12 teams but switched back to a single unit with Covid at least through 2023-24 and its conference schedule has 20 games. What would a MVC schedule look like and how many games would be played?


(If the conference eventually expands to more than 12 teams, division play likely would be necessary.) Currently, the more obvious possibilities for MVC divisions at 12 teams with traveling partners would seem to be the following two configurations.

East-West

East: Loyola-Valpo, Indiana State-Evansville, Belmont-Murray State
West: Northern Iowa-Drake, Bradley-Illinois State, Southern Illinois-Missouri State.

North-South

North: Northern Iowa-Drake, Loyola-Valpo, Bradley-Illinois State
South: Missouri State-Southern Illinois, Indiana State-Evansville, Belmont-Murray State.

[wh]

Divisions are a cool idea, IF we didn't have to worry about OOC scheduling and it's negative effect on team and conference NET rankings. One of the great advantages of 12 teams over 10 is 22 conference games instead of 18. Splitting into divisions, playing each team in your division twice, and the other division teams once results in only 16 conference games. Our annual OOC scheduling nightmare, with its non-D-1 filler games and low major matchups made out of desperation (Chicago State, SIUE et al.) just became worse than ever.

[wh]

Question: If every team in every conference scheduled only in-conference opponents, wouldn't all 32 conferences have identical conference NETS?

[valpopal]

Divisions are a cool idea, IF we didn't have to worry about OOC scheduling and it's negative effect on team and conference NET rankings. One of the great advantages of 12 teams over 10 is 22 conference games instead of 18. Splitting into divisions, playing each team in your division twice, and the other division teams once results in only 16 conference games. Our annual OOC scheduling nightmare, with its non-D-1 filler games and low major matchups made out of desperation (Chicago State, SIUE et al.) just became worse than ever.

I agree if the MVC will schedule 22 conference games. I'm not sure why the MAC returned from divisions to a 12-team unit but plays only 20 conference games. For me, the threshold for divisional play might be if the conference ever expands to 14 teams.

[VUGrad1314]

From everything I have seen there has been no confirmation of this since that tweet. No movement or statement from the MVC office or from Murray State. Should we be concerned? What might be holding this up?

[wh]

From everything I have seen there has been no confirmation of this since that tweet. No movement or statement from the MVC office or from Murray State. Should we be concerned? What might be holding this up?

I don't have an answer for you, but your question brought to mind when Jimmy from Milwaukee foretold with complete certainty that UIC was the Valley's choice to replace Wichita State. He said he heard it from a reliable inside source and corroborated it with 2 other reliable inside sources. When it didn't happen we came to learn that all 3 had picked it up from the same bogus source. lol

[bbtds]

I would love to see Wichita State come back to the MVC but I don't see their egos allowing that to ever happen

About the same as Saint Louis coming back to the MVC. Try putting that on their message board to see what reaction you get.

[usc4valpo]

Why UTA? Go with the Jacks of SFA!

[IndyValpo]

Why UTA? Go with the Jacks of SFA!

SFA is the the WAC now and that conference is hoping to move up a level in football in the future.

[VUGrad1314]

As much as I would love to have SFA I don't see them as realistic as they literally just moved to the WAC You almost never see schools pay exit fees twice in such a short span. Also if the MVC is smart UTA would be very far down the list of candidates. I really hope and believe that our#12 is going to be Murray State I hope we get an answer soon.