Possible Missouri Valley Conference Expansion

[VUGrad1314]

This might actually spur ARC renovations happening at a faster rate. People will become more acutely aware of the inadequacies and inefficiencies of the facility if the alcohol sales cause long bathroom lines. So not only will we make more money we will also get an upgraded arena faster. This is an absolute win!

[VUGrad1314]

Southland and OVC to announce FCS football scheduling alliance for nonconference games.

http://ovcsports.com/news/2021/10/8/ohio-valley-conference-and-southland-conference-announce-football-scheduling-alliance.aspx

I don't think this has an effect one way or the other. From what I read in an article about it this is to provide stability for both conference in non-conference scheduling which they're both going to need given their recent membership losses. This is not like the ASUN-WAC arrangement where both conferences have pooled their teams together to vie for an auto bid. This is perhaps a sign of confidence from both leagues that despite the rumors (SELA and McNeese State leaving the Southland and Murray State or possibly Tennessee State leaving the OVC) none of that is actually going to come to fruition and both conferences will hang on to their respective autobids. This would seem to indicate one of two things:

1. Murray State is going to be allowed to park its football program in the OVC even if they leave

2. The OVC has held firm leveraging football since Murray State has no other option at this time and Murray State is not coming.

I think option 2 is more likely.

Though I suppose it is possible that both the Southland and OVC will continue to expand and bolster their football ranks but without much smoke on that it's hard to say anything definite. Moreover, and this is a total shot in the dark guess on my part, maybe the Big South would take them given that they will lose North Alabama and Kennesaw State after this year as they begin ASUN play. They would only be at 7 members and perhaps would like an eighth to make things a bit easier for scheduling purposes? The geography isn't a terrific fit for Murray or for the conference though which makes it feel a bit unlikely.

The longer we wait the more I think Murray is stuck and football might be the biggest reason why.


However there might be a (somewhat convoluted) workaround if we can get the cooperation of WIU and Northern Colorado.... Here's the outline of that that I just sketched off the top of my head:


If I understand how exit fees work for conferences like the OVC if you give a full two years' notice of departure you get out with no fee right? So how about this? Murray State announces their intention to leave the OVC in July 2024 thereby giving both the OVC and Murray State two years to figure out their football situation. By then Murray should be able to find an affiliation somewhere if not the MVFC outright and the OVC should have time to find new members so that their autobid isn't threatened while Murray gets out without paying a dime and the MVC has time to integrate Belmont before welcoming in the Racers. This also unwinds any scheduling issues that the MVFC may have. Or.. There's always this potential solution:

Let's assume Western Illinois is willing to go to the OVC and Northern Colorado is willing to go to the Summit League. Those moves get announced which means:

WIU leaves the MVFC for the OVC leaving the MVFC at 10 members

The Summit League and MVFC schools essentially just trade one desired target for another. The Summit League schools get Northern Colorado the MVFC schools get Murray State. The MVFC stands at 12 and everyone's happy.

If WIU won't leave then perhaps the conference could add Robert Morris to go to 14 along with the other two but if Murray State's football isn't good enough for the MVFC then Robert Morris's sure as heck isn't going to be so that's probably a non-starter.

The concern here I guess would be that the MVFC would then have the power to split off from the Summit League schools but I can't see that being an option either side would pursue given the success of the partnership.

I have read that when North Dakota was admitted to the MVFC there may have been some sort of a quid pro quo agreement that the Dakota schools would not block the admission of a team like Murray State into the MVFC. That doesn't appear to actually be the case though because I would have thought it would be done by now if the agreement actually was in place.

Unless of course the cause of the wrangling isn't football but the same academic and market crap we've heard about over and over again that doesn't hold water.

[wh]

This might actually spur ARC renovations happening at a faster rate. People will become more acutely aware of the inadequacies and inefficiencies of the facility if the alcohol sales cause long bathroom lines. So not only will we make more money we will also get an upgrading arena faster. This is an absolute win!

As '72 said, all it takes is money. Unfortunately, Valpo has no money to spare, so unless a donor pops up out of nowhere...

[usc4valpo]

We just collected $300M. Time to spend baby!

[bbtds]

We just collected $300M. Time to spend baby!

Those people didn't give their money for athletics they gave it to strengthen the endowment. I have a feeling the people giving the money are in the majority that don't feel it's appropriate to give the money for athletics. That just happens to be the way it is at Valpo.

[usc4valpo]

Bbtds - yep, and that's why in athletics we continue to have a commitment to being safe and mediocre. Sad indeed. You can't make a Van Gogh why crayolas and a cheap coloring book.

[wh]

Bbtds - yep, and that's why in athletics we continue to have a commitment to being safe and mediocre. Sad indeed. You can't make a Van Gogh why crayolas and a cheap coloring book.

I used to rail on the Administration with the best of them, just like you're doing now. I knew that "Project 6000" was a fool hearty notion that defied logic in every respect. I wondered then (and I still do) if the university "overbuilt" (meaning overspent) on academic facilities on a pipe dream that never had chance of becoming reality. That said, whatever the past administration should have done differently to better address basketball facility needs is long in the rear view mirror. I have great faith in President Padilla's ability to exercise better judgement over such matters. That said, enrollment is down substantially, and not just at Valpo. It's a university system problem that spans all 50 states. Like it or not, we're all in survival mode right now. Among my wife, my 3 adult children, and myself, we have 9 alma maters, one of which is Valpo. All 9 are struggling. The last thing any of them should be doing right now IMO is spending a bunch of money on athletic facilities. As much as I love Valpo men's basketball, none of my donations are going to athletics right now. Again, President Padilla will get this figured out. We just need to be patient.

[valpotx]

1314 - good points but trust me on this - with the exception of Loyola, NW Mo St bastketball last year was better than any MVC team.  Their players are better fundamentally, have height, talent - they would have wiped Valpo off the floor. My thought is out of the box and it's a university on the upswing.

SFA would be an ideal MVC candidate. Tapping into the Texas market where student are from Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston make sense. also, we can get Buc-ees, the greatest interstate stop chain in human existence, to sponsor the MVC tournament!

Regarding Valpo progressing with facilities - those are nice words but how long will this take? Actions are required expeditiously.

I respect your personal connection to SFA, but no one cares about that school in DFW, unless you attended.  There is no 'tapping into' the TX market in adding SFA. 

[vu84v2]

We just collected $300M. Time to spend baby!

Those people didn't give their money for athletics they gave it to strengthen the endowment. I have a feeling the people giving the money are in the majority that don't feel it's appropriate to give the money for athletics. That just happens to be the way it is at Valpo.

I have mentioned this before, but raising $300M for endowment does not mean that Valpo collected $300M. This money is a commitment to donate money. Some of it is money directly donated, but a substantial majority is commitments from donors to donate the money over time – either via installments or via money that has been earmarked in peoples' estates. Further, as bbts and others point out, it is very likely that most of this is targeted to scholarships, specific teaching or research programs, or other activities consistent with the university's mission (of which basketball and athletics are just a few of many activities). The university cannot use money in a manner that is different from what was agreed to with the donor. There is probably a small portion of this endowment that is targeted to athletics, but (for the reasons stated by bbts and wh) my guess is that this is a small portion of the $300M...and much of that money will gradually become available over many years.

[vu72]

We just collected $300M. Time to spend baby!

Those people didn't give their money for athletics they gave it to strengthen the endowment. I have a feeling the people giving the money are in the majority that don't feel it's appropriate to give the money for athletics. That just happens to be the way it is at Valpo.

I have mentioned this before, but raising $300M for endowment does not mean that Valpo collected $300M. This money is a commitment to donate money. Some of it is money directly donated, but a substantial majority is commitments from donors to donate the money over time – either via installments or via money that has been earmarked in peoples' estates. Further, as bbts and others point out, it is very likely that most of this is targeted to scholarships, specific teaching or research programs, or other activities consistent with the university's mission (of which basketball and athletics are just a few of many activities). The university cannot use money in a manner that is different from what was agreed to with the donor. There is probably a small portion of this endowment that is targeted to athletics, but (for the reasons stated by bbts and wh) my guess is that this is a small portion of the $300M...and much of that money will gradually become available over many years.

A very kind explanation aimed at those who either just don't get it or just want to blow off steam.  What $300,000 gift is in question anyway?

[crusader05]

It might have been in the Torch interview but I believe Padilla said that he views the next focus on fundraising to be on updating outdated buildings. Specifically our Nursing facilities, Business building, and Athletics facilities. He didn't indicate an order but my guess is that with the growth and continued academic success of our nursing program that would be the first target.

The Endowment is important because it allows us to continue to take more and more annual funding "off the books" which means that there is less pressure on tuition to keep the entire institution afloat. Well funded scholarship pools mean that discount rates become less harmful. Professors and programs funded in full mean we have the flexibility to grow in ways that are necessary. Also, the larger the endowment you have the more options you have. I also have heard that there is going to be increased focus on development of all the land that is available to create additional revenue streams. I've heard talk of a retirement community near the campus, a nearby hotel with event spaces, and solar farms as ideas tossed around.

All of these things are good and will do more towards helping free money up towards athletics than just hoping for a big donor to solve all our problems.

[vu72]

It might have been in the Torch interview but I believe Padilla said that he views the next focus on fundraising to be on updating outdated buildings. Specifically our Nursing facilities, Business building, and Athletics facilities. He didn't indicate an order but my guess is that with the growth and continued academic success of our nursing program that would be the first target.

That is what he said at Homecoming at the Honor's Breakfast. Specifically, he said that the Nursing College is now spread out in three buildings and having recently visited a Nursing facility at a community college, it was obvious that we need to move on this and quickly.  As for the Business College he mentioned that the technology was just way out dated and either it would require a new building or a major overhaul.  As for Athletics he said that the ARC was just not up to par with Valley competition and we need to move on that soon.  He said that the current drive would end next June and then a very brief "victory lap" before moving on with these projects.  He said "don't put your wallets away just too quickly!

[wh]

Not to suggest that our current bb venue is acceptable, but I will say this. I think I can say with 100% certainty that every scholarship member of our men's basketball team chose Valpo over schools with better basketball facilities. In fact, on paper our talent level compares favorably to any program in the league IMO. I don't know exactly what that says, but at a minimum it must be that fancy basketball venues are not important to a lot of players.

[may know]

Not sure what the most ridiculous thing ever posted on the board is but "with the exception of Loyola, NW Mo St bastketball last year was better than any MVC team" is at a height which might never be beaten.

[wh]

Not sure what the most ridiculous thing ever posted on the board is but "with the exception of Loyola, NW Mo St bastketball last year was better than any MVC team" is at a height which might never be beaten.

Are you sure about that? How about claiming that Steven F. Austin State University would be a great fit for the Valley:

NCAA brings down the hammer on Stephen F. Austin college athletics

"Here is everything SFA will lose/be forced to vacate, according to East Texas Matters:
•117 men's basketball wins (including the 2016 •NCAA tournament win over West Virginia)
•112 baseball victories
•31 softball wins
•29 football wins
•Three men's basketball conference championships
•Three years of probation;
•Public reprimand and censure;
•A fine of $5,000 plus one-half of one percent of the total budgets for football and men's basketball;
•The return of 50 percent of the University's financial share earned from participation in the 2016 NCAA Tournament
•Included in the vacation of wins are conference championships in men's basketball in 2014-15, 2015-16 and 2017-18, as well as the program's First Round win in the 2016 NCAA Tournament. 
•The banners recognizing those achievements will be removed from William R. Johnson Coliseum.
•A 2.5% reduction in financial aid awards (scholarships) in football for 2020-2021 and 2021-2022; a 5% reduction in baseball in either 2020-21 or 2021-2022 and the loss of one scholarship in men's basketball in either 2020-2021 or 2021-22.
•Prior to the conclusion of the probationary period, the institution will submit to a data review with APP staff.
Good lord... This is as close to the 'Death Penalty" as we're going to see from the NCAA in the year 2020."

https://www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-wildcats/news/ncaa-brings-down-the-hammer-on-stephen-f-austin-college-athletics/

[usc4valpo]

May know - you may want to see how well NW Mo St has done in basketball the past 5 years. They were better than Valpo last year and better coached.

[usc4valpo]

Wh - did the punishment meet the crime?

[VUGrad1314]

May know - you may want to see how well NW Mo St has done in basketball the past 5 years. They were better than Valpo last year and better coached.

I just can't get behind this statement. However lofty their accomplishments might be they were still against D2 competition. To imply that Valpo wouldn't absolutely clean up against the same competition when we were a middle of the pack MVC team who beat a ranked Drake team and played Loyola tough seems misguided to me. NW Missouri State might have a good coach but a team in our conference just hired a D2 coach and it wasn't him. I'm very much a skeptic/critic of Lottich but even I know he'd do well against D2 teams. Additionally Indiana State is probably going to finish behind Valpo for several years despite having a coach that they must believe is even better than the guy you're touring. Again I'm sure he's a fine coach for his level but I doubt he'd waltz into the MVC and dominate like you think he will especially not against what the MVC is projected to be over the next few years. Do you think Belmont will come in and dominate? If not then I can't see how you think a D2 school could.

[VUGrad1314]

Wh - did the punishment meet the crime?

Whether or not the punishment fit the crime (and I think you raise a legitimate point there in light of the fact that in recent years we've had literal fake classes at UNC multiple schools in the Big 10 covering up for literal crimes (Penn St Michigan St) and all manner of financial impropriety at schools like Kansas) the point remains this: If one of the potential sticking points for Murray State who has had no such APR trouble that I can see at any point recently is academics as has been alleged then a school with the record of SFA has ABSOLUTELY no chance of an MVC invite.


Another point I think we all miss that dawned on me recently is that while there have always been two justice systems in the NCAA I don't think the NCAA can actually functionally do anything to schools like UNC Louisville Michigan State Penn State Kansas Arizona etc) without the schools' approval because of the schools' autonomous status. I have no proof that this plays a role but it would certainly explain such blatant leniency in nearly every case.

[usc4valpo]

hey guys just thinking outside of the box.

[VUGrad1314]

One thing is for certain though if we are in fact stopping after the Belmont addition and going with 11 teams and 20 games (which was SUCH a non starter a few years ago What the heck changed?) then non D1s need to be banned as we have even fewer opportunities as a conference to make our at large cases in the non conference. Can't waste them anymore. if that means one less home game every year then so be it.

[bbtds]

(for the reasons stated by bbts and wh)

as bbts and others point out,

Who's that guy?

[vu84v2]

(for the reasons stated by bbts and wh)

as bbts and others point out,

Who's that guy?

Oops! Sorry for not properly citing you bbtds.

[wh]

Following is a highly informative article about the huge enrollment challenges colleges and universities will be facing over the next decade. Of course, it's written from a Wheaton perspective, but something caught my eye relative to MVC expansion. As I highlighted below, the biggest challenges going forward in the Midwest are going to be faced by "regional" universities. This applies to many/most MVC schools, due to changing demographics.

Then, consider what Missouri State's president said about how adding Texas-Arlington could help with recruiting regular students. My point is that these college presidents have a lot more to consider than simply who has the best bb program. Belmont opens up the south and T-A would open up Texas, which unlike the Midwest and the rust belt is growing in population.

As colleges and universities across the nation face a precipitous cliff of enrollment challenges, Wheaton strategically positions itself for the future.
Silvio E. Vazquez, Chief Enrollment Management Officer

Grawe categorizes institutions of higher learning into the following sectors: two- and four-year public schools; regionally and nationally ranked colleges; and the elites, or hyper-selective universities. The data reveals that the drop in enrollment numbers varies significantly depending on the type of institution. According to Grawe, it is the regional institutions that rely heavily on their surrounding populations that will struggle more than the nationally ranked or elite universities. This is data worth noting, because 48 percent of Wheaton's students come from the American Midwest, with about 22 percent from Illinois. Most demographers declare that this region will see a greater than 15 percent decline in populations seeking private education. When considering Illinois alone, the prognosis is sobering, with predictions that we will reach the "cliff" in 2025—18 years after the 2008 economic collapse—as a result of a dramatic drop in birth rates.

The good news, however, is that according to Grawe's calculations, Wheaton fits into the nationally ranked grouping, meaning that change is coming but the predicted loss is not as great as it would be if we were simply a regional school.

https://magazine.wheaton.edu/stories/autumn-2019-up-to-the-challenge-addressing-the-shifting-landscape-of-christian-higher-education

[VU75]

The biggest enrollment challenge is created by today's technology oriented workplace where you don't  need a four year degree to have a satisfying well paying career.  If a good job is all you want out of education why not just two years at community college and not start life $100,000  in debt?