Possible Missouri Valley Conference Expansion

[Just Sayin]

It just comes down to the extent to which you believe Valpo is responsible for their own underperformance and I believe that while some things are beyond Valpo's control as a small private school with a small largely academics focused alumni base  there are multiple areas where the problems are eminently fixable with just a little more work and effort.

While we all want Valpo to be more competitive, some perspective is needed here.  We don't just play basketball. We play softball, baseball and other sports that are very popular in the Valley.
In the most recent addition of AD insights, Mark LaBarbera said that Valpo will now be able to broadcast both softball and baseball games on ESPN+. That is huge for national exposure and recruiting.  It didn't happen because it was a cheap add.  I'm no expert in what adding broadcasting capabilities to our venues might have cost, but it was a lot, maybe a combined $1 million dollar price tag--who knows.  So we are still bringing our overall facilities up to Valley standards.  We all want the ARC to be brought up to Valley standards.  President Padilla has said so as well but that is going to cost a lot more than $1 million.

In comparison, consider the one school who had done worse than us since joining the Valley. In both Men's and Women's basketball, Evansville is clearly at the bottom.  They joined the conference in 1994!  We joined in 2015.  They had a 21 year lead on us!  Or how about Indiana State, who we just beat and who is hanging out near the bottom of the Men's race.  They joined in 1976!!!!!  So, keep the fact that we are the second smallest school in the conference with zero state funding and then look at our progress, albeit slow, but still progress, nonetheless.

As a potential season ticket purchaser, basketball is all that I care about. If VU can do what is necessary to focus on making men's basketball a mid-major powerhouse, a major success, a large chunk of money will come in increased attendance. Winning games fill the arenas. It's all about making the commitment, not just talking about it. I'm sure the ARC would be packed if we were at the top of the teams in the MVC. Concessions and beer revenue would be much better than what they currently are. Personally, I will not buy one ticket to watch Valpo until I see that the administration isn't all talk and no action.
I've seen the ARC packed and the excitement level through the roof. We coached, recruited, and played better. Bring it back and continue to build. If you can't afford to do it, go back to the Summit or Horizon league and continue to be happy with mediocrity.

[usc4valpo]

nice - if Drake can be successful, why cant Valpo. They are going through similar financial challenges. Maybe it is the revenue from the Drake Relays.

[VUGrad1314]

It just comes down to the extent to which you believe Valpo is responsible for their own underperformance and I believe that while some things are beyond Valpo's control as a small private school with a small largely academics focused alumni base  there are multiple areas where the problems are eminently fixable with just a little more work and effort.

While we all want Valpo to be more competitive, some perspective is needed here.  We don't just play basketball. We play softball, baseball and other sports that are very popular in the Valley. In the most recent addition of AD insights, Mark LaBarbera said that Valpo will now be able to broadcast both softball and baseball games on ESPN+. That is huge for national exposure and recruiting.  It didn't happen because it was a cheap add.  I'm no expert in what adding broadcasting capabilities to our venues might have cost, but it was a lot, maybe a combined $1 million dollar price tag--who knows.  So we are still bringing our overall facilities up to Valley standards.  We all want the ARC to be brought up to Valley standards.  President Padilla has said so as well but that is going to cost a lot more than $1 million. In comparison, consider the one school who had done worse than us since joining the Valley. In both Men's and Women's basketball, Evansville is clearly at the bottom.  They joined the conference in 1994!  We joined in 2015.  They had a 21 year lead on us!  Or how about Indiana State, who we just beat and who is hanging out near the bottom of the Men's race.  They joined in 1976!!!!!  So, keep the fact that we are the second smallest school in the conference with zero state funding and then look at our progress, albeit slow, but still progress, nonetheless.

As a potential season ticket purchaser, basketball is all that I care about. If VU can do what is necessary to focus on making men's basketball a mid-major powerhouse, a major success, a large chunk of money will come in increased attendance. Winning games fill the arenas. It's all about making the commitment, not just talking about it. I'm sure the ARC would be packed if we were at the top of the teams in the MVC. Concessions and beer revenue would be much better than what they currently are. Personally, I will not buy one ticket to watch Valpo until I see that the administration isn't all talk and no action. I've seen the ARC packed and the excitement level through the roof. We coached, recruited, and played better. Bring it back and continue to build. If you can't afford to do it, go back to the Summit or Horizon league and continue to be happy with mediocrity.

We won't and shouldn't go anywhere. No disrespect to our former leagues but a bad season in the MVC beats the best the HL or Summit have to offer. Or did we all forget 2015-2016 already? Drake had a similar resume to ours and got in in 2021. I have no doubt if we had put up the same numbers against an MVC schedule back in 15-16 we would have been in the tournament and done some damage. I don't think we're going to languish at the bottom of this conference forever but even if we do I'm happy we made the jump when the opportunity presented itself. If (when?) we rise to the top again we will all see just how worthwhile this move was and is if we haven't already.

nice - if Drake can be successful, why cant Valpo. They are going through similar financial challenges. Maybe it is the revenue from the Drake Relays.

They have a really good coach and probably a bit more of an athletics focused alumni base. Moreover, they have more of a market than Valpo. I know Des Moines isn't great but it's a lot more reach than Valpo. I still think Valpo can eventually do it but Drake has a few advantages in the game that Valpo can't really replicate easily. Of course having Drake poach a bunch of players from Valpo's backyard wasn't great for us either but that's beside the point. DeVries looks like he can be pretty successful no matter what kind of roster you hand him. Coaching might be the biggest factor in Drake's rise here because while there's been signs of commitment from Drake it hasn't been spectacular and as I said the market size probably isn't a huge deal even if it is something of a factor at least a little bit.

[usc4valpo]

Drake does a much better job promoting their team and making it a better gameday experience, which is something that can done at Valpo. They also have to compete with neighboring Iowa State for the dollar which is challenging. I wonder if Valpo keeps going back to 1998, similar to how Bear fans reminisce about the 1885-86 Super Bowl season.

If Drake can do it, so can Valpo. Both schools are strapped for cash. Find a way.

[wh]

nice - if Drake can be successful, why cant Valpo. They are going through similar financial challenges. Maybe it is the revenue from the Drake Relays.

Drake professors speak out about cuts to course offerings, summer pay
byGRACE ALTENHOFEN  October 17, 2021

https://timesdelphic.com/2021/10/33057/

[usc4valpo]

It would be interesting to see what professor salaries compare at the private vs public university level.

That being said interesting article. Drake draws more than Valpo for Mens BB, and I would bet they make a killing from the Drake Relays. It is a better college atmosphere which is really lacking at Valpo.

[oklahomamick]

Hate to say it, but Evansville might be a better apples to apples comparison. 

[oklahomamick]

How many D1 private schools are in small communities like Valpo? 

Evansville - larger community
Bradley - Peoria is a larger community
Mercy - larger
Loyola - larger
Belmont - larger
Drake -larger
Butler - larger
Dayton - larger
Robert Morris - larger
ORU - larger


Campbell - about the same?
Davidson - about the same?
Liberty - about the same?

https://www.collegevine.com/schools/private-colleges-with-d1-basketball

Really the only fans of private schools outside of Notre Dame, Duke, Stanford, Miami, USC  , are the alumni themselves.  See the above list, the only fans of those schools are alumni.  A big problem with Valpo is that in a town of 40,000 there aren't very much alumni living there.  Possibly more alumni in the region, but it takes dedication to drive in 20 degrees, sometimes snow for a game that you have less than a .500 chance of winning with no halftime entertainment that looks more like street ball than organized offense.  Do they sell beer at the ARC yet?

[oklahomamick]

I would say that the UCF game I attended in Orlando has probably 100-150 Valpo fans.  Also had a great alumni event/pre game at a local bar.  But the 100-150 Valpo fans were probably more than the UCF fans when we played in Indiana. 

Valpo has a better chance of drawing a hundred or so fans in Dallas, Orlando, Kansas City, Chicago than say N. Iowa, Southern Illinois or Indiana St. would.  But as far as a home crowd it's much easier for those schools (despite being in small similar communities as Valparaiso) because they are much larger schools. 

[vu84v2]

It would be interesting to see what professor salaries compare at the private vs public university level.

That is not really the right question. The right question is how do salaries compare for R1 vs. balanced vs. teaching schools. Murray State (a public university) is more of a teaching school like Valpo and, thus, has similar pay. Notre Dame's pay would be comparable to Indiana or Purdue (since all are R1s). R1 schools drive far greater research grants, but the salary differences are also driven by demand for people that can do very high end research work.

Ironically, in 2022-2023 the only MVC school that is R1 (and thus has the highest salaries) will be UIC.

[VUSWIM08-12]

UIC to the MVC , not the school I'd have picked but regionally it Mayes sense I suppose

[VUGrad1314]

UIC to the MVC , not the school I'd have picked but regionally it Mayes sense I suppose

I was down down on them initially too but I'm wholly on board now. This has a chance to be a big time addition one day. They have a high overall athletics budget good facilities and the Chicago market is so very important to the MVC and to basketball recruiting in general. Their endowment and enrollment are growing by leaps and bounds which means there is strong potential for future athletic and academic growth. I think it would be foolish to expect Loyola level results but they could be really really good if they commit to basketball and we  give them a few years' time.

[IndyEIT777]

UIC to the MVC , not the school I'd have picked but regionally it Mayes sense I suppose

I was down down on them initially too but I'm wholly on board now. This has a chance to be a big time addition one day. They have a high overall athletics budget good facilities and the Chicago market is so very important to the MVC and to basketball recruiting in general. Their endowment and enrollment are growing by leaps and bounds which means there is strong potential for future athletic and academic growth. I think it would be foolish to expect Loyola level results but they could be really really good if they commit to basketball and we  give them a few years' time.

I'm good with UIC now that we have Belmont and Murray State on board. I've never been to Gentile arena at Loyola to compare with UIC, but I do think UIC Pavilion is a good venue for the conference. Who knows if UIC takes off like Loyola, UIC has been more middle of the pack in the Horizon League than Loyola was when they entered The Valley. It would not shock me at all if they start to have greater success in the near future. As a Valpo fan, I get concerned that three more teams are going to enter the conference, pass us up and not look back leaving us in the cellar. I hope we start pulling our weight sooner than later.

[VUGrad1314]

I've been thinking lately about just how different the tone surrounding this realignment period for the MVC has been. I almost feel like the last two times the MVC suffered a defection (Creighton and Wichita State) pundits and observers rushed to write the epitaph for the conference. I feel like that was a residual effect of the MVC's having cracked the RPI code back in the mid 2000s resulting in the conference having an ability to punch way above its weight in terms of bids and tournament wins.  But this time feels different. I don't know whether it's a testament to the overall quality of the league (the fact that UNI and Illinois State stepped up with at large caliber squads (even though Illinois State didn't get in) after Creighton left and then Loyola went supernova after Wichita State left and UNI and Drake fielded at large caliber squads at that time too (even though UNI would not have gotten in in all likelihood during the COVID year) or if it's because people believe in the quality of the additions the MVC is made but it feels like nobody is throwing dirt on the MVC after Loyola this time. Has anyone else noticed this? What do you think?

[wh]

The HL's decision to refuse to allow UIC to participate in their conference tournament has caught the attention of Waddle and Silvy, ESPN 1000 Chicago's afternoon show. They said they are going to go on a crusade to get the HL to reverse course. They understand the HL is within its rights to do it, or not do it, since UIC did not give full notice, but to penalize the players after all they have dealt with since COVID is heartless. They have spoken to UIC's AD off the air and will have him on the air shortly. They also noted that UIC is fully prepared to pay all financial penalties. Silvy is an SIU alum and follows the Valley closely. He noted that Loyola is leaving the MVC for greener pastures and there is no discussion of excluding them from Arch Madness, despite being one of the favorites to win it.

[wh]

MSU press conference announcing move to MVC

https://goracers.com/news/2022/1/6/general-murray-state-racers-jan-7.aspx

First, this put Valpo's announcement press conference to shame. Far more importantly, everything said by MSU leadership exposes Valparaiso University and its past claims of institutional support for men's bb for what it is - completely fraudulant.

Pay particular attention starting at the 8-minute mark:

- Not only does MSU's bb facility put the ARC to shame, they have an official plan underway to revamp their entire facility. Valpo lied about having a plan to gain entrance in the MVC. Six years later we still have no plan, There's probably not even enough money to conduct a feasibility study, formulate an engineering plan, or even do an artist's rendering. We have no donors, no money, impending staff layoffs, reduction of academic programs, and - the ARC isn't even at the top of the needed facilities list.
- They wanted to be fully prepared to put their best foot forward in anticipation of this opportunity.
- Note Commissioner Jackson's comment about how institutional commitment to athletics is of primary importance to ALL current MVC members. How embarrassing.
- Pay particular attention to their AD's comments and how substantive they are. Not the empty-headed meaningless fluff from past Valpo leadership, carefully framed to not get caught actually committing to something or saying anything that can't be pulled back.

THIS is the completely disgraceful, totally unforgivable 800-pound gorilla in the room that is going to kill Valpo men's basketball forever, not some basketball coach who needs to coach better at the end of games, or needs to stop bringing in Big 10 rejects, or whatever the bitch of the day is.

Basically, I've had it. I'll continue to support men's basketball - for now - but I'm done supporting Valparaiso University the institution.

[vu84v2]

MSU press conference announcing move to MVC

https://goracers.com/news/2022/1/6/general-murray-state-racers-jan-7.aspx

First, this put Valpo's announcement press conference to shame. Far more importantly, everything said by MSU leadership exposes Valparaiso University and its past claims of institutional support for men's bb for what it is - completely fraudulant.

Pay particular attention starting at the 8-minute mark:

- Not only does MSU's bb facility put the ARC to shame, they have an official plan underway to revamp their entire facility. Valpo lied about having a plan to gain entrance in the MVC. Six years later we still have no plan, There's probably not even enough money to conduct a feasibility study, formulate an engineering plan, or even do an artist's rendering. We have no donors, no money, impending staff layoffs, reduction of academic programs, and - the ARC isn't even at the top of the needed facilities list.
- They wanted to be fully prepared to put their best foot forward in anticipation of this opportunity.
- Note Commissioner Jackson's comment about how institutional commitment to athletics is of primary importance to ALL current MVC members. How embarrassing.
- Pay particular attention to their AD's comments and how substantive they are. Not the empty-headed meaningless fluff from past Valpo leadership, carefully framed to not get caught actually committing to something or saying anything that can't be pulled back.

THIS is the completely disgraceful, totally unforgivable 800-pound gorilla in the room that is going to kill Valpo men's basketball forever, not some basketball coach who needs to coach better at the end of games, or needs to stop bringing in Big 10 rejects, or whatever the bitch of the day is.

Basically, I've had it. I'll continue to support men's basketball - for now - but I'm done supporting Valparaiso University the institution.

Let's remember that CSFB Center, Murray State's 8600 seat arena that is next to their campus cost $23M to build (it opened in 1998). Of that $23M, $18M was paid for by the state of Kentucky after it was approved by the Kentucky general assembly.

Also, while there are programs being eliminated at Valpo, there are also programs being added.

[VUGrad1314]

I'm as upset as anyone about the slow pace of facilities development and the apparently dubious nature of the university's commitment to athletic success. It is a huge problem maybe even moreso than our current coach but vu84v2 raises a salient point. It's really easy to raise money when you have the state legislature backing 75+% of your project for you. It's the same reason Indiana State's facility is so nice despite them facing a lot of the same financial obstacles. As a private institution this is not an avenue available to us. We need more committed donors we need to make athletics more of a priority and while many will say words are wind (and they are right) words and aspirations are about all we have until the money shows up somehow.

[vu72]

First, this put Valpo's announcement press conference to shame. Far more importantly, everything said by MSU leadership exposes Valparaiso University and its past claims of institutional support for men's bb for what it is - completely fraudulant.

THIS is the completely disgraceful, totally unforgivable 800-pound gorilla in the room that is going to kill Valpo men's basketball forever, not some basketball coach who needs to coach better at the end of games, or needs to stop bringing in Big 10 rejects, or whatever the bitch of the day is.

wh, you really just need to take a break or a valium perhaps.  The University will survive and just maybe, the major benefactors are about more than basketball. Deep breath, deep breath, deep breath.

[covufan]

First, this put Valpo's announcement press conference to shame. Far more importantly, everything said by MSU leadership exposes Valparaiso University and its past claims of institutional support for men's bb for what it is - completely fraudulant.

THIS is the completely disgraceful, totally unforgivable 800-pound gorilla in the room that is going to kill Valpo men's basketball forever, not some basketball coach who needs to coach better at the end of games, or needs to stop bringing in Big 10 rejects, or whatever the bitch of the day is.

wh, you really just need to take a break or a valium perhaps.  The University will survive and just maybe, the major benefactors are about more than basketball. Deep breath, deep breath, deep breath.

I bet the law grads thought the same thing a few years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[valpo tundra]

wh-Since many of your beefs are for past transgressions, why not give the new leadership a fair shot? The President is still new and has identified The Arc as his second most important facility upgrade, behind a new Nursing building. He also actually attends many Valpo sports events and talks about Athletics in a holistic, supportive way, unlike his predecessors. He has pushed forward with a new AD who will be named in a few short months. When my kids made bone-headed moves, my job as their biggest supporter was to help them learn from their experiences and give them the resources to achieve a better outcome the next opportunity, not bail on them. If President Padilla thought that we were in a great place, he wouldn't have done what he's done and said what he's said. If he were complacent, you would have every right to your criticism; and if things don't change at all or too slowly, you can also circle back with more heat. Many of your criticisms are valid and the new leadership team agrees on a lot of it.

[usc4valpo]

I just don't understand the big picture. I am concluding that the $250M fundraiser may not have been an important endeavor since that complete sum will never exist.

I hope we are  all rooting that Padilla will get the job done - and he has big challenge to keep things afloat.

[vu72]

I just don't understand the big picture. I am concluding that the $250M fundraiser may not have been an important endeavor since that complete sum will never exist.

Not sure you understand how endowment works.  Some of this money is already in, like the $1.1 million gift from the estate of Dale Kempf ($350,000 of which was spent on renovating the basketball practice facility) the endowment and the balance is "Pledged" most likely meaning it will be part of an estate gift.  Many of the big hitters, financially, are in their eighties and, although I never want to wish ill for a follow alumni member, we all have a limited shelf life.  Once the funds are "in the bank", typically, 5% is actually available for distribution, although as was the case with the Kempf gift, some are spent immediately.  So 300 million would generate 15 million annually.  One of the pledges is for 2 million for basketball recruiting.  When that comes in that would generate 100,000 annually. That will help!

[vu84v2]

I just don't understand the big picture. I am concluding that the $250M fundraiser may not have been an important endeavor since that complete sum will never exist.

Not sure you understand how endowment works.  Some of this money is already in, like the $1.1 million gift from the estate of Dale Kempf ($350,000 of which was spent on renovating the basketball practice facility) the endowment and the balance is "Pledged" most likely meaning it will be part of an estate gift.  Many of the big hitters, financially, are in their eighties and, although I never want to wish ill for a follow alumni member, we all have a limited shelf life.  Once the funds are "in the bank", typically, 5% is actually available for distribution, although as was the case with the Kempf gift, some are spent immediately.  So 300 million would generate 15 million annually.  One of the pledges is for 2 million for basketball recruiting.  When that comes in that would generate 100,000 annually. That will help!

Just to add to vu72's comments, my understanding (which I would have also guessed) is that Valpo's donors are highly reliable - meaning that if they pledge an amount to be given over time or to be given as part of an estate, Valpo can be very confident that they will eventually receive the money.

[valpopal]

Murray State (21) and Belmont recognized in new AP Top 25 Poll. No votes for any current MVC teams.


New top 25 (as of Feb. 14):



1. Gonzaga
2. Auburn
3. Arizona
4. Kentucky
5. Purdue
6. Kansas
7. Baylor
8. Providence
9. Duke
10. Villanova
11. Texas Tech
12. Illinois
13. UCLA
14. Houston
15. Wisconsin
16. Tennessee
17. USC
18. Ohio State
19. Michigan State
20. Texas
21. Murray State
22. Wyoming
23. Arkansas
24. UConn
25. Alabama

Others receiving votes: Marquette 77, Xavier 51, Colorado State 29, Saint Mary's (Cal) 22, LSU 18, Iowa 17, Notre Dame 17, SMU 14, Rutgers 10, Virginia 4, South Dakota State 3, Toledo 3, Miami 3, Boise St. 3, San Francisco 2, Belmont 2, Vermont 1, Wake Forest 1.