Possible Missouri Valley Conference Expansion

[VU2014]

I've sort of been thinking about this ever since we got the invite to the MVC. So what happens to the Horizon and the Summit?

LeCrone (thank God he's not our problem anymore) wants to expand to 12 or 14(!)....

Seems like these are the schools on LeCrone's wish-list:

-Belmont (already tried and failed to land them). Would be a great future addition to MVC.

-Omaha. No secret that LeCrone covets them and fits his "model" of big market, but gets absolutely no attention from the media/community. Attendance less then 1,900 people.

-Denver. WAY out of the footprint but big market. It's hockey school/not a Basketball school. They have a +3M budget (mostly going towards travel expenses). Not likely, imo.

-Robert Morris. Seems like they is public interest in them. They only have 3 mens sports sponsored by the HL. No baseball, which the HL badly needs. They are out of the footprint but relatively close to YSU. Seems like there may be mutual interest because they apparently aren't happy in the NEC, but would be more travel for them.

-IPFW... They are in the geographic region & would "replace" Valpo as an Indiana school. I think it would be a bad move for the HL, because there has been rumors that they may go D2. Low Budget and not great athletics. They'd jump at the opportunity to join the HL. I would avoid them, but they have Baseball which the HL needs.

-IUPUI... In the footprint and in Indy where the HL offices located, low budget, not great athletics, no baseball. I think there is almost no way the HL picks them up but you never know what LeCrone is thinking.

-Murray State... I could see why they want them but people I've talk to there is almost no chance Murray State would leave for the HL and wouldn't be interested in joining the HL.

-Dakota Schools (NDSU/SDSU)... they are a package deal. You would at least need to take 2 of the 4. Seems unlikely they'd leave the Summit because they are starting to run that league because of the heavy influence they are starting gain there. The Conf Tourney is in their area so it may be a tough sell, but if the Summit started to get poached then maybe they jump ship. Only problem is they are up in Dakotas and out of everyones geographic footprint, which means heavy travel costs for every other school. I doubt the MVC would ever add 2 of the Dakotas because of they really like the low travel. Maybe the HL would take that risk. NDSU/SDSU are seen as 'up & coming' programs.


The MVC is going to explore going to 12 the next 9 months and the HL will at least need 1 probably will add 3 maybe 5 in the future. We could be "competing" for the same group of schools.

Seems like MVC would add 2 more for the right 2 (Belmont/Murray State). 11 is completely out the question in the MVC.

[agibson]

Feelings of jealousy would easily creep in if we join a somewhat depleted MVC and then Belmont and Murray State join the Horizon. But, that seems pretty unlikely.

The Dakotas have had some success, but Nagy's move to Wright State suggests they may still be a rung below the current (recent?) Horizon. Perhaps their funding is behind Horizon levels?

[oklahomamick]

Only realistic schools are IUPUI, IPFW, UMKC, Chicago St, and RMU.  The HL is not attractive as it once was. 

Omaha will not leave the SL for the HL.  1. They like their proximity to the Dakotas and the conference tournament.  They have a long relationship with the Dakotas who run that conference.  2. The SL has ranked higher than the HL the past two years and the HL just lost it's best basketball school. 

If I was......

Detroit - look to get into the MAAC.  The MAAC could go divisions and have a west that would make travel a little better.  Detroit is a hub for Delta and travel would be easy. 

CSU - drop to DII.  We know that athletics help promote a school.  However, CSU is a commuter school and has a lot of adult students meaning they don't have the typical on campus student experience.  I don't think athletics are important for their image or student recruitment/attainment.

YSU - Clearly they want to be a football school.  Then go for it.  Make a push and put some more money in it.  Join the MAC and be a football school.       

[VU2014]

Feelings of jealousy would easily creep in if we join a somewhat depleted MVC and then Belmont and Murray State join the Horizon. But, that seems pretty unlikely.

The Dakotas have had some success, but Nagy's move to Wright State suggests they may still be a rung below the current (recent?) Horizon. Perhaps their funding is behind Horizon levels?

I would be perplexed if Belmont left for the Horizon League now, but for some reason their Pres/AD thinks staying in the OVC where it may be an easier path to winning the Conference Tourney every single year with out having to go through tougher competition. Also the travel costs are pretty low in the OVC. They've apparently said they aren't interest to both the MVC really early on in the process, and they've apparently told the HL they aren't interest twice (privately).

PantherU has been beating the drum since we got the invite to the MVC to replace us with Belmont, Murray State, & Robert Morris. I've seen quite a few Murray State media guys publicly on twitter shoot it down. As for Robert Morris I think its not completely out of the question because they are mildly close to YSU and they haven't been bad at Basketball.

Oakland Reporter talking Robert Morris to the HL: (same reporter that said Oakland ended talks with the A10 to pursue to HL)
https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/862477110841102336
https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/862479469801598976
https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/862480616524324865
https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/862481236073304065
https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/862496939912433673
https://twitter.com/Flamesmania/status/862835063775428608
https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/862835242993934336
https://twitter.com/Flamesmania/status/862835567964422145
https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/862835829533790210

[vuny98]

I personally don't see why any team from the OVC would leave for the Horizon. With Butler and Valpo, yes, but those days are gone now. There is no team in the Horizon anymore that is a name that is stronger than the tops names in the OVC...And geographically it is much more compact.

The Summit, I could see a few teams wanting to leave for the Horizon...

In a few years time I fully expect to see either the WAC, Summit or Horizon fold. (Horizon by far the least likely of that group)

[vu72]

Robert Morris in Pittsburgh?  They draw 1000 sometimes for games!

[oklahomamick]

Has the HL started seeking candidates yet?  Or do they think Valpo will stay?

[VU2014]

Has the HL started seeking candidates yet?  Or do they think Valpo will stay?

I'm sure they already started reaching out to schools. They know Valpo is on the way out.

Sporting News reported potential replacements:
-Robert Morris
-Omaha
-Fort Wayne
-IUPUI
-UMKC
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/horizon-league-valparaiso-replacements-missouri-valley-college-basketball-conference-realignment/qrtz5s72ntk31rop3l88ab2y1

The Detroit News
"Universities that could be targets might include Fort Wayne, Indianapolis and Omaha from the Summit League; and Belmont, Murray State and SIU Edwardsville from the Ohio Valley Conference.

Belmont, Murray State and Omaha were three other institutions in talks recently with the Missouri Valley Conference, but only Valparaiso got an invitation.

One wild card to keep an eye on: Phoenix's Grand Canyon, a member of the Western Athletic Conference. Grand Canyon is coached by former Central Michigan star and Traverse City native Dan Majerle, and has a rabid fan base."

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/2017/05/09/valparaisos-exit-leave-horizon-league-hole/101474562/

Green Bay Press Gazette:
LeCrone couldn't say whether the Horizon would stay at nine teams for next season, adding it's too early to make any promises since Valparaiso hasn't officially transitioned out of the league.

"We have really been on an 18- to 24-month look at expanding our league, even beyond 10 to maybe 12 or 14," LeCrone said. "We are still on that path. That is still our strategic plan. We think that helps us improve in men's basketball.

"We have quite a good-sized candidate list. We have a number of candidates that are interested in coming into the Horizon League. So we are in a time where we could have, I'm not suggesting the process is over, we could have a member transitioning out and we could have some members that are transitioning in."
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/college/uwgb/2017/05/09/valparaiso-expected-leave-horizon-league/101471576/

[Dave_2010]

Fort Wayne seems like the most logical addition for the HL, since it can work as a travel partner for UIC and has baseball. It seems like a program capable of breaking out, given the right opportunity.

I'd go to 12 with some combination of IUPUI, SIUe, and Robert Morris joining FW. I don't see Omaha particularly interested, as the Summit is a better fit geographically and on par with a Valpo-less HL in terms of MBB quality.

For the sake of my own entertainment, I hope it's Grand Canyon, Denver, and NMSU as that will confirm everything we already know about the questionable wisdom of conference leadership.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[talksalot]

another Summit school to discuss for the HL... Western Illinois... have baseball.  What am I missing?

[vuny98]

another Summit school to discuss for the HL... Western Illinois... have baseball.  What am I missing?

Makes too much sense for that to happen... Obviously New Mexico State is a better fit, or better yet maybe there's a small college in Hawaii that wants to join...

[Dave_2010]

another Summit school to discuss for the HL... Western Illinois... have baseball.  What am I missing?

Makes too much sense for that to happen... Obviously New Mexico State is a better fit, or better yet maybe there's a small college in Hawaii that wants to join...

Chaminade did have that big win over Virginia one time...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dave_2010]

another Summit school to discuss for the HL... Western Illinois... have baseball.  What am I missing?

Given complaints about YSU's football emphasis interfering with basketball, I'd guess HL members would have reservations about going back to the well for a school with a similar profile.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bigmosmithfan1]

Murray or Belmont to the HL is a message board pipe dream, for Murray especially. Yeah, the Racers are totally going to make a lateral move to another one-bid league where the nearest conference mate *is further away from them than literally every OVC school*. I love Panther U's school spirit, but come on.

Given that they are the #7 basketball team in their own town, I fully expect LeCrone to jump on board the IUPUI train.

[FWalum]

-IPFW... They are in the geographic region & would "replace" Valpo as an Indiana school. I think it would be a bad move for the HL, because there has been rumors that they may go D2. Low Budget and not great athletics. They'd jump at the opportunity to join the HL. I would avoid them, but they have Baseball which the HL needs.

I think this has been blown way out of proportion. I admit that I don't really agree with the current direction of splitting the university, but everything IPFW has done in the 15 years prior to 2016 was to move it away from a commuter school and into a real campus with housing, a fieldhouse and lots of green space. Being D1 is an integral part of that equation so I don't see them moving down to DII. Joining the HL would drastically reduce their travel budget as they are currently the eastern edge of the SL. Jon Coffman is a good coach, does well at developing players and is innovative recruiter.

[wh]

Personally, I would pick Ft. Wayne if they stay with 10, and add IUPUI and W. IL if they go to 12. That would give the HL a strong presence in Indiana and Illinois and a tight, contiguous footprint at a time when athletic budgets are being stretched to the max. They could keep the tournament in Detroit or opt to move it to Indy. This combination of schools and locations could help stabilize the conference for a long time to come IMO.

This would not be a conference I would be ashamed to be a part of by any stretch. Other than YSU, every current HL program has experienced sustained periods of basketball success in the past. Odds are good that several will improve significantly over the next 5 years.

There is no reason the HL has to tank.

[zvillehaze]

Personally, I would pick Ft. Wayne if they stay with 10, and add IUPUI and W. IL if they go to 12. That would give the HL a strong presence in Indiana and Illinois and a tight, contiguous footprint at a time when athletic budgets are being stretched to the max. They could keep the tournament in Detroit or opt to move it to Indy. This combination of schools and locations could help stabilize the conference for a long time to come IMO.

This would not be a conference I would be ashamed to be a part of by any stretch. Other than YSU, every current HL program has experienced sustained periods of basketball success in the past. Odds are good that several will improve significantly over the next 5 years.

There is no reason the HL has to tank.

I'm probably biased, but I do think IUPUI has potential.  Their move to the renovated Fairgrounds Arena gives them a great facility and they are in the middle of a basketball hotbed.  They have also taken steps to move away from the "commuter school" label, adding on campus housing and several very nice apartment complexes have been constructed on the fringe of campus.  I know little about their finances, but with a slight increase in budget, think they could be a nice addition.

[blackpantheruwm]

Murray or Belmont to the HL is a message board pipe dream, for Murray especially. Yeah, the Racers are totally going to make a lateral move to another one-bid league where the nearest conference mate *is further away from them than literally every OVC school*. I love Panther U's school spirit, but come on.

Given that they are the #7 basketball team in their own town, I fully expect LeCrone to jump on board the IUPUI train.

I want to point out that I freely admit, every time, the chances of bringing in Murray State and Belmont are slim-to-none. I'm just throwing ideas out there. A lot of the time, I'll throw and idea out and it misses. Sometimes, I'll throw out an idea and it sticks.

We'll probably add three schools that few will be excited about, then one or more of them will eventually do well.

[blackpantheruwm]

Chaminade did have that big win over Virginia one time...

I like this guy 

[bbtds]

Has the HL started seeking candidates yet?  Or do they think Valpo will stay?

"We'll think about it."

another Summit school to discuss for the HL... Western Illinois... have baseball.  What am I missing?

Did you ever visit Illinois​ west of Peoria?

[valpopal]

I can't imagine a plan for Horizon League addition(s) that does not include an Indiana school. Without Valpo, the HL has teams in Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, and Kentucky. The league would look like a donut with Indiana as the center opening, which would seem odd, especially since the Horizon League headquarters are in Indianapolis!

[bbtds]

I can't imagine a plan for Horizon League addition(s) that does not include an Indiana school. Without Valpo, the HL has teams in Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, and Kentucky. The league would look like a donut with Indiana as the center opening, which would seem odd, especially since the Horizon League headquarters are in Indianapolis!

Southern Indiana might be the way to go if following the Northern Kentucky model.

HL might have to wait a few years but that seems to be the pace LeCrone and the HL work at.

[FieldGoodie05]

I can't imagine a plan for Horizon League addition(s) that does not include an Indiana school. Without Valpo, the HL has teams in Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, and Kentucky. The league would look like a donut with Indiana as the center opening, which would seem odd, especially since the Horizon League headquarters are in Indianapolis!

Southern Indiana might be the way to go if following the Northern Kentucky model.

HL might have to wait a few years but that seems to be the pace LeCrone and the HL work at.

I'm sad we couldn't see the future of NKU while in the HL.  They are a serious program and I foresee solid success for them.  NKU and OU will be missed.

[valpo64]

It seems that a number of you are saying the addition of Ft. Wayne will be a good thing for the HL.  I'm not sure they are a viable D-1 program in the long run as some think.  Even though the campus may have a lot of green space and a recreation facility for the students, their "gym" seats about 1,800 with very uncomfortable smaller than normal chairback seats.  At times they use the Allen County War Memorial Coliseum that, even when they block off thousands of seats for aesthetic purposes, draws anywhere from 1,000 to 1,500 per game if they are lucky.  While they have enjoyed very good coaching and some pretty good teams in recent years, the recent changes in their campus operation/mgt., etc. and now the new name of Purdue Northeast has cast many doubts on their Div. 1 longevity.  Time will tell, but I sure wouldn't bet on this horse.

[valpotx]

Why doesn't IFPW rebrand as Fort Wayne University or the University of Fort Wayne?  Is it simply because Purdue wants their name on the school?  Tarleton State University is part of the Texas A&M system.  Lamar University is part of the Texas State system.  It can be done, and still have that tie.