Possible Missouri Valley Conference Expansion

[oklahomamick]

It goes to show you where the vu program is and where the ysu program lays.  Ysu is a pay game for Utah state and VU is a conference challenge game. 

I remember ML stating that he and LeCrone have been friends for very long time.  On union street hoops, ML had lunch with lecrone the day after taking the Vu job.

[bbtds]

(I mean, they're bragging about taking a guarantee game from a team that was a conference rival just five years ago, like that's a good thing).

It is Butler. In my mind Butler has jumped 2 levels in those five years from the mid-major level they were at in the Horizon League. They may have obnoxious fans and they are totally turning their backs on Valpo because they are afraid to lose to the Crusaders but they are a team on a different level altogether.

[zvillehaze]

(I mean, they're bragging about taking a guarantee game from a team that was a conference rival just five years ago, like that's a good thing).

It is Butler. In my mind Butler has jumped 2 levels in those five years from the mid-major level they were at in the Horizon League. They may have obnoxious fans and they are totally turning their backs on Valpo because they are afraid to lose to the Crusaders but they are a team on a different level altogether.

"They are a team on a different level." 

[StlVUFan]

another Summit school to discuss for the HL... Western Illinois... have baseball.  What am I missing?

"You can't get there from here." -- RLH

[zvillehaze]

another Summit school to discuss for the HL... Western Illinois... have baseball.  What am I missing?

"You can't get there from here." -- RLH

Yes.  Made that trip to from Indy to Macomb a couple of times.  Great drive, if you love two-lane roads surrounded by cornfields.

[vu72]

(I mean, they're bragging about taking a guarantee game from a team that was a conference rival just five years ago, like that's a good thing).

It is Butler. In my mind Butler has jumped 2 levels in those five years from the mid-major level they were at in the Horizon League. They may have obnoxious fans and they are totally turning their backs on Valpo because they are afraid to lose to the Crusaders but they are a team on a different level altogether.

"They are a team on a different level." 

We goodness sake, DON'T encourage it!!!   

[historyman]

We goodness sake, DON'T encourage it!!!   

[wh]

From the Wright State board:

Quote
"Who's to say Oakland and Northern Kentucky -- two programs on the rise with much better facilities than Valpo, won't be better basketball programs than Valpo 3-5 years from now, or even sooner? And those programs were the two most recent members to join. Just not seeing all the doom and gloom about Valpo leaving.

Frankly, the problem is with longstanding members like Cleveland State, Detroit and UIC not pulling their weight or even close. Could anyone really argue against that? If those 3 programs from major cities could get their act together, this wouldn't even be an issue. Period. Instead, they are 3 of the worst programs in the country."

After 10 years in the league, it amazes me how many people still don't get how insignificant the "facilities" factor is in determining program success. Moreover, anyone who would choose to join one family over another based on who has the fanciest house is not the type of individual we're looking for.

[historyman]

This is a lot of talk about a conference that we will be done with by July 1st. I understand that there is a big tendency to look back and we have done a lot of that with the Mid-Con/Summit but none of it really mattered except for a few OOC games.


Kampe and Valpo will always have a "special" relationship.

[VU2014]

This is a lot of talk about a conference that we will be done with by July 1st. I understand that there is a big tendency to look back and we have done a lot of that with the Mid-Con/Summit but none of it really mattered except for a few OOC games.

Kampe and Valpo will always have a "special" relationship.

The MVC and HL could be potentially be "competing" for future members over the next year or two, so the HL's actions do potentially impact the MVC and I think is something worthy of discussion.

[valpotx]

The Facilities topic is so overdone when it comes to being competitive in college sports.  They can have their Facilities, and I will take our titles...

[historyman]

This is a lot of talk about a conference that we will be done with by July 1st. I understand that there is a big tendency to look back and we have done a lot of that with the Mid-Con/Summit but none of it really mattered except for a few OOC games.

Kampe and Valpo will always have a "special" relationship.

The MVC and HL could be potentially be "competing" for future members over the next year or two, so the HL's actions do potentially impact the MVC and I think is something worthy of discussion.

Well then, let's talk about Middle Tennessee and why C-USA is lucky to have them. I just feel there is something Em(p)-ty about the discussion.

[bbtds]

This is a lot of talk about a conference that we will be done with by July 1st. I understand that there is a big tendency to look back and we have done a lot of that with the Mid-Con/Summit but none of it really mattered except for a few OOC games.

Kampe and Valpo will always have a "special" relationship.

The MVC and HL could be potentially be "competing" for future members over the next year or two, so the HL's actions do potentially impact the MVC and I think is something worthy of discussion.

Well then, let's talk about Middle Tennessee and why C-USA is lucky to have them. I just feel there is something Em(p)-ty about the discussion.

Oh, I get it! M-T! Empty! Middle Tenn.

[wh]

For many people (myself included) there is something cathartic about taking time to reflect on the past before focusing on the future. The Horizon League will become a distant memory soon enough.

[VU2014]

HL is going to live-stream a press-conference to address Valpo leaving the Conference if you want to tune in.

https://www.facebook.com/HorizonLeague/
https://twitter.com/HorizonLeague/status/867799930068504576

[wh]

For many people (myself included) there is something cathartic about taking time to reflect on the past before focusing on the future. The Horizon League will become a distant memory soon enough.

Catharsis officially over. The icing on the cake was the LeCrone response to a question asking if Valpo's teams would have been at risk of being excluded from their respective post season tournaments. He called the MVC invitation "untimely" and said the HL office and Valpo had discussed the best way to keep Valpo from being excluded.

Let's be clear. The HL has a clearly defined procedure for exiting the conference. It calls for a 2-year notice, and payment of a substantial financial penalty for leaving sooner. That's it. There is no reference in the bi-laws about being suspended from post season play after an announcement. The only way the league could exclude Valpo is if the other programs decided to vote to do so. He either knew or strongly suspected that the other members would do exactly that.

That tells me all I need to know about the Horizon League. They're burning bridges with Valpo, just like they did with Butler. Going forward, there should be no OOC games with any HL school, including teacher's pet Oakland.

Now that I have this off my chest, this is my dead last post about anything related to the Horizon League.

[VULB#62]

For many people (myself included) there is something cathartic about taking time to reflect on the past before focusing on the future. The Horizon League will become a distant memory soon enough.

Catharsis officially over. The icing on the cake was the LeCrone response to a question asking if Valpo's teams would have been at risk of being excluded from their respective post season tournaments. He called the MVC invitation "untimely" and said the HL office and Valpo had discussed the best way to keep Valpo from being excluded.

Let's be clear. The HL has a clearly defined procedure for exiting the conference. It calls for a 2-year notice, and payment of a substantial financial penalty for leaving sooner. That's it. There is no reference in the bi-laws about being suspended from post season play after an announcement. The only way the league could exclude Valpo is if the other programs decided to vote to do so. He either knew or strongly suspected that the other members would do exactly that.

That tells me all I need to know about the Horizon League. They're burning bridges with Valpo, just like they did with Butler. Going forward, there should be no OOC games with any HL school, including teacher's pet Oakland.

Now that I have this off my chest, this is my dead last post about anything related to the Horizon League.

😃  NFW,  WH. I give you maybe a week. Ha, ha. 

[wh]

For many people (myself included) there is something cathartic about taking time to reflect on the past before focusing on the future. The Horizon League will become a distant memory soon enough.

Catharsis officially over. The icing on the cake was the LeCrone response to a question asking if Valpo's teams would have been at risk of being excluded from their respective post season tournaments. He called the MVC invitation "untimely" and said the HL office and Valpo had discussed the best way to keep Valpo from being excluded.

Let's be clear. The HL has a clearly defined procedure for exiting the conference. It calls for a 2-year notice, and payment of a substantial financial penalty for leaving sooner. That's it. There is no reference in the bi-laws about being suspended from post season play after an announcement. The only way the league could exclude Valpo is if the other programs decided to vote to do so. He either knew or strongly suspected that the other members would do exactly that.

That tells me all I need to know about the Horizon League. They're burning bridges with Valpo, just like they did with Butler. Going forward, there should be no OOC games with any HL school, including teacher's pet Oakland.

Now that I have this off my chest, this is my dead last post about anything related to the Horizon League.

😃  NFW,  WH. I give you maybe a week. Ha, ha. 

I'm going to be in Playa from the end of June till Sept. - kind of a working vacation. If I can make it till then, it will become much easier to forget about the HL (and most everything else up here for that matter). 

[talksalot]

so, that's 1 post about the HL after the last one.

but who's counting?  EVERYONE!   Enjoy Playa...

[zvillehaze]

For many people (myself included) there is something cathartic about taking time to reflect on the past before focusing on the future. The Horizon League will become a distant memory soon enough.

Catharsis officially over. The icing on the cake was the LeCrone response to a question asking if Valpo's teams would have been at risk of being excluded from their respective post season tournaments. He called the MVC invitation "untimely" and said the HL office and Valpo had discussed the best way to keep Valpo from being excluded.

Let's be clear. The HL has a clearly defined procedure for exiting the conference. It calls for a 2-year notice, and payment of a substantial financial penalty for leaving sooner. That's it. There is no reference in the bi-laws about being suspended from post season play after an announcement. The only way the league could exclude Valpo is if the other programs decided to vote to do so. He either knew or strongly suspected that the other members would do exactly that.

That tells me all I need to know about the Horizon League. They're burning bridges with Valpo, just like they did with Butler. Going forward, there should be no OOC games with any HL school, including teacher's pet Oakland.

Now that I have this off my chest, this is my dead last post about anything related to the Horizon League.

Very well stated by wh.  Valpo's move to the MVC will give them ample OOC opportunities that stretch well beyond Horizon League teams.  As I've stated many times, much of the scheduling process is based on relationships between the schools, and as wh points out, the HL schools burned bridges with Valpo and Butler when they left (and continue to do so).  This explains why I don't believe a Valpo-Butler matchup will happen anytime soon.  When you have 300+ schools you can play in your handful of OOC games, why would you play a school who went out of their way to make your departure from their league as difficult as possible?

[zvillehaze]

I'll also note that perhaps if YSU hoops wasn't such a trash fire, maybe you wouldn't have had *three* HL members jumping at the first opportunity to leave in the past five years. (I mean, they're bragging about taking a guarantee game from a team that was a conference rival just five years ago, like that's a good thing).

Honest question for you ... how is YSU taking a buy game at Butler any worse than Valpo taking a buy game at Northwestern?

[VUGrad1314]

The key difference is that Valpo has not been in any conference alongside Northwestern and therefore was never a "peer" institution; while Butler was in the same conference as Youngstown State just five short years ago. The implication is that they were at roughly the same level by their conference affiliation (although they were not on nearly the same level as programs despite this fact) just a short time ago, and now are getting paid like some low-major opponent with no chance to win against the Bulldogs to come to play a team they used to play home and home not long ago as conference foes. It's both a testament to what Butler has accomplished in such a short time through their commitment to their basketball program and shows where Youngstown State is as a program and its general attitude toward hoops (which isn't surprising since it's clearly a football school.) His point about teams like Youngstown State being a major reason why so many teams are looking to exit the Horizon League makes a great deal of sense. This was a league that used to be in the top 12 in the nation and its teams were once in the at large conversation come tournament time. That's no longer true, and that is why teams like Butler Loyola and Valpo have left and why teams like UIC and Milwaukee are trying to leave.

[valpopal]

The city of Fort Wayne is building a new arena costing over $100 million. I wonder if this will help the Horizon League come to a conclusion that IPFW would be a good add, especially since I believe they need an Indiana team? Interestingly, the $100 million-plus facility would only seat 5,600, not a lot more than the ARC! Design and illustrations at link: http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/34525720/design-plans-revealed-for-fort-wayne-events-center

[VUGrad1314]

IPFW is already a good add. The Horizon League's footprint is shifting East and they have a school (Wright State) that is in a good deal of financial trouble. Their job now that Valpo's gone should be to protect their new bellwether programs in Northern Kentucky and Oakland as well as try to protect Wright State financially and stoke greater interest in Youngstown State by minimizing travel costs and adding closer teams(Robert Morris IUPUI and IPFW would be my leading candidates in a sane universe where footprint matters I think adding Denver New Mexico State and Grand Canyon is just a foolhardy notion. They'd be more likely to join the Summit or the West Coast Conference than the Horizon League. The Western part of the Horizon League will be swallowed up by the Missouri Valley in fairly short order in all likelihood. I can foresee a day where both Milwaukee and UIC are Valley members (as long as they continue to improve). However, if my memory serves, the Summit League has already outperformed the Horizon League in two of the past three seasons and that was BEFORE Valpo departed. How much worse will it get now? They have to act on Summit League teams immediately before the gulf between the two leagues widens to the point where teams like IPFW, IUPUI, and Western Illinois don't deem the hit in competition worth the travel savings of joining the Horizon. LeCrone's inability to act in a timely manner following Valpo's departure may cost him his best chance of saving his league. This is, of course, good for us because that means that they may be forced to look at the OVC for teams to help placate Northern Kentucky (Morehead State and Eastern Kentucky would be strong candidates in this case), which decreases the stability of that league and makes Belmont more likely to entertain a jump to the MVC pushing us further toward multi-bid status. Fun fact, I heard several weeks ago on that Murray State podcast that the Eastern Division of the OVC (Where Belmont is) actually outperformed the Horizon league in the Sagarin ratings. Granted, Belmont had a big say in that, but that's still a real black eye for a once great mid major league. I wonder if all of this realignment and shuffling will eventually result in conference mergers. I can't decide whether that would be good or bad for mid-major basketball if mergers were to occur.

[VU75]

Very telling that there is more discussion of Horizon League expansion on this board then on any of the other Horizon boards.