Possible Missouri Valley Conference Expansion

[talksalot]

and Lipscomb didn't play... but it was not a total washout for Nashville sports... Tennessee State beat Reinhardt 92-53 

[oklahomamick]

Big win for UWM.  Keep it up......MVC sending out invitations soon.  I want UWM, but I also want them to be really good. 

[wh]

Other than geographic proximity, Milwaukee is no better a fit for the MVC than are Cleveland State, Wright State, Detroit, Oakland, UIC or IUPUI. All 7 are large commuter campuses in large metropolitan areas. Their fan bases are pathetic relative to their gargantuan city and university populations. Local news outlets barely cover them. They don't even bother to show up at major conference press events because, simply put, none of these schools are considered worthy of coverage beyond high school-level. These factors alone should keep Milwaukee from ever being considered for the MVC.

Now let's talk basketball. Milwaukee has had 1 glory period in their history, and that was years ago under the direction of a lifelong cheater with the moral compass of a dog in heat. Their athletic department is headed by a pc appointee who is abrasive and clearly in over her head. And she's just the latest in a revolving door of AD's, which means they have had no consistent strategy for athletic sustainability or development. Honestly, I can't think of a worse addition to the Missouri Valley Conference than the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee.

[oklahomamick]

Wow, I can think of a couple worse additions.....IUPUI, Chicago St, UMKC, Omaha

I know UWM even with 4 years of sustained success on the court is not a good fit for the mvc.  They are my pick because of selfish reasons.  Such as a lot of alumni in area, direct flights from Tulsa, decent rivalry with valpo, another team closer to Chicago than St. Louis (you know where I'm going with that one). 

[bbtds]

Now let's talk basketball. Milwaukee has had 1 glory period in their history, and that was years ago under the direction of a lifelong cheater with the moral compass of a dog in heat. Their athletic department is headed by a pc appointee who is abrasive and clearly in over her head. And she's just the latest in a revolving door of AD's, which means they have had no consistent strategy for athletic sustainability or development. Honestly, I can't think of a worse addition to the Missouri Valley Conference than the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee.

Probably very similar words were used when discussing Valpo's move to the Midwestern Cities (whatever the name was before the Horizon League) from the Mid-Con. Was Valpo actually ready for MCC (HL) then. Probably not. That doesn't mean that a program can't change to be a needed program and catch the other programs by surprise.

While I say that I don't know if Milwaukee is a good invite for next year to the MVC.

[crusaderjoe]

CSUB is leaving the WAC and joining the Big West with UCSD in 2020.  With Chicago State's troubles, this probably puts UMKC to the Summit at "highly likely", IMO.  If the Horizon League was smart, they would have already placed a call to Las Cruces this afternoon.  Actually, now that I think about it, maybe Elgin should make that call instead.

[VU2014]

The WAC is screwed. If I were New Mexico State and GCU I would have been searching for a new conference yesterday. UMKC was exploring going to D2. Chicago State has absolutely ZERO business being in D1 sports and likely will eventually move to D2. CSU Bakersfield is has confirmed they're leaving.

The WAC shouldn't be a Conference. I hope schools like GCU, NMSU, and SeattleU can find new homes. The rumor has been that LeCrone was both GCU & NMSU but I don't know if I see that happening. Travel would be a nightmare.

I just hope the WAC doesn't lose those teams and pulls up D2 schools that clearly aren't committed enough to compete at the D1 level. There are already too many low-major schools. It's over-saturated the last few years, imo. There are too many school that aren't committed at the D1 level and it shows.

[VUGrad1314]

Belmont loses to Lipscomb. Another loss like that and they'll struggle to get an at-large. This might just be a season that finally wakes them up and realize that the MVC is the only way forward for them as a program.

[VU2014]

Belmont loses to Lipscomb. Another loss like that and they'll struggle to get an at-large. This might just be a season that finally wakes them up and realize that the MVC is the only way forward for them as a program.

At this point they'd need to be close to winning out in their conference schedule and not have anymore bad losses. They need to win their conference tournament at this point, imo. OVC is pretty clearly a 1-bid league and will be for the foreseeable future.

It comes down to 2 teams in March in the OVC: Murray and Belmont. But anyone can win the conference tournament.

[VUGrad1314]

The WAC is screwed. If I were New Mexico State and GCU I would have been searching for a new conference yesterday. UMKC has said they plan on going D2 (or maybe it was they were strongly looking into it?). Chicago State has absolutely ZERO business being in D1 sports and likely will eventually move to D2. CSU Bakersfield is has confirmed they're leaving. The WAC shouldn't be a Conference. I hope schools like GCU, NMSU, and SeattleU can find new homes. The rumor has been that LeCrone was both GCU & NMSU but I don't know if I see that happening. Travel would be a nightmare.

Just speculation here but I could see  scenarios wherein the WCC or the MWC takes those schools in. The HL I'm sorry to say appears to have fallen too far too fast for that scenario to happen. It's also not feasible given the financial realities faced by some of the member schools. I find it far more likely that the SL splits with Fort Wayne and possibly WIUgoing to the Horizon while the Summit shifts West absorbing UMKC Utah Valley and possibly others. I consider the Summit League a better contender for NMSU and GCU than the HL at this point. Although it's highly unlikely, I wouldn't totally count out the MVC as well.

[VUGrad1314]

Belmont loses to Lipscomb. Another loss like that and they'll struggle to get an at-large. This might just be a season that finally wakes them up and realize that the MVC is the only way forward for them as a program.

At this point they'd need to be close to winning out in their conference schedule and not have anymore bad losses. They need to win their conference tournament at this point, imo. OVC is pretty clearly a 1-bid league and will be for the foreseeable future. It comes down to 2 teams in March in the OVC: Murray and Belmont. But anyone can win the conference tournament.

I agree. Which is exactly why they need to leave with Murray State and join us over here. (Yes I know I'm preaching to the choir). No matter how many times it's explained to me I will NEVERunderstand why it's so hard to convince them of this.

[valpotx]

Regarding the WAC, they also have California Baptist joining the conference, so it isn't dead yet.

[crusaderjoe]

The WAC is screwed.

We don't know yet. People said the same thing about the Mid-Con in 1993, and the conference still survived—although to be fair, the Mid-Con's saving grace was that it had the ability to absorb another conference outright.  The WAC has no such luxury.  The WAC most likely will need to rely on D-II startups to survive if an exodus occurs.  The next 2 to 3 years are critical.

As for the MVC, I'd be happy with an NMSU / Murray add to get to 12, with the understanding that NMSU is most likely a temporary outlier because of FBS football.  Then, spilt divisions of 6 and 6.  Put Valpo in the "West" a la Missouri in the SEC East if necessary to ease travel concerns generally if splitting divisions by geography. This would most likely be temporary anyway. And no to GCU.  Not because they are for profit, but because if NMSU gets a spot in an FBS conference in the future as a result of movement or media contract renegotiations the MVC would be left with an outlier with no travel partner potentially for a greater length of time.

[VUGrad1314]

Some food for thought vis a vis MVC expansion:

https://www.midmajormadness.com/2017/11/28/16708426/your-nightly-brutality-south-dakota-state-outlasts-ole-miss-mike-daum

I get that Western Michigan is a solid team and one of the favorites in the MAC but they're an A10 team playing at home. This isn't SLU's first questionable loss (they also lost to Detroit). It may be time to seriously question just how much they would really add to the conference. They've got the resources to be sure but those resources aren't translating into wins, even at home. That is very troubling. Meanwhile, South Dakota State just took down their second P5 school this year and are 7-2. Both Dakota schools look really solid this year and appear to be the kind of programs the MVC needs.

[VUGrad1314]

Couple this with the D2 loss and the Iowa State win is a distant memory. It's clear at this point: Milwaukee isn't ready for the MVC. If we want to take someone out of the Horizon NKU is the way to go. AND they make better geographic sense for the MVC given that the addition of Murray State to the conference is seemingly a fait accompli.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400991252

[VU2014]

Andy Katz just wrote that Gonzaga wants to be in the Big East (I mean who wouldn't?), but its the first time I've heard a prominent national journalist/reporter say it publicly. The geography makes absolutely no sense but not Geography means less and less these days. Ex: WSU in the AAC, SLU in the A10, the entire WAC conference...

I don't want a team like the Zags joining the Big East. It makes basketball sense only but it would be a blow to mid-major basketball as a whole. I don't consider Gonzaga a true mid-major anymore but I'd like them to remain in the WCC.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-12-04/andy-katzs-power-36-whos-ncaa-tournament-dec-4

12. Gonzaga (13): The Bulldogs had one of the most impressive wins of the week, knocking off Creighton at home by putting up 91 points against the offensive Bluejays. And the Zags did it without Corey Kispert, who got hurt in the previous game against Incarnate Word. The Zags, who would love nothing more than to be in the Big East, can show the conference office and its power brokers that they belong with a win over Villanova in New York at the Jimmy V Classic Tuesday. OK, there is something called geography in the way, but Gonzaga would like to be in the league. They return to their regular schedule (non-Big East games) Sunday with the revival of the Washington series, this time back in Seattle on Sunday.

[Dave_2010]

Andy Katz just wrote that Gonzaga wants to be in the Big East (I mean who wouldn't?), but its the first time I've heard a prominent national journalist/reporter say it publicly. The geography makes absolutely sense but not Geography means less and less these days. Ex: WSU in the AAC, SLU in the A10, the entire WAC conference...

I don't want a team like the Zags joining the Big East. It makes basketball sense only but it would be a blow to mid-major basketball as a whole. I don't consider Gonzaga a true mid-major anymore but I'd like them to remain in the WCC.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-12-04/andy-katzs-power-36-whos-ncaa-tournament-dec-4

12. Gonzaga (13): The Bulldogs had one of the most impressive wins of the week, knocking off Creighton at home by putting up 91 points against the offensive Bluejays. And the Zags did it without Corey Kispert, who got hurt in the previous game against Incarnate Word. The Zags, who would love nothing more than to be in the Big East, can show the conference office and its power brokers that they belong with a win over Villanova in New York at the Jimmy V Classic Tuesday. OK, there is something called geography in the way, but Gonzaga would like to be in the league. They return to their regular schedule (non-Big East games) Sunday with the revival of the Washington series, this time back in Seattle on Sunday.

"The Minneapolis Lakers moved to Los Angeles, where there are no lakes, the Houston Oilers to Tennessee, where there is no oil, the Big East added Gonzaga, a school in Washington...the state."

BASEketball (adapted)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[a3uge]

Gonzaga is sort of holding the WCC back, IMO. None of those coaches can sell recruits on playing in the tournament, because the league is so top heavy. Gonzaga is not really a mid major... they don't share the same struggles and qualities of a typical mid major. I wouldn't mind seeing the WCC without Gonzaga. With that said, Gonzaga to the Big East seems like a bad idea.

[Valpower]

Is Katz really saying that Gonzaga...GONZAGA...beating a top Big East team is required to prove they "belong"? Sheesh.

[UNIFTW]

Gonzaga is sort of holding the WCC back, IMO. None of those coaches can sell recruits on playing in the tournament, because the league is so top heavy. Gonzaga is not really a mid major... they don't share the same struggles and qualities of a typical mid major. I wouldn't mind seeing the WCC without Gonzaga. With that said, Gonzaga to the Big East seems like a bad idea.

Same could be said about WSU and the MVC - and I have said that for a while now

[VUGrad1314]

Gonzaga to the Big Is good for pretty much everybody involved.

[Valpower]

Gonzaga is sort of holding the WCC back, IMO. None of those coaches can sell recruits on playing in the tournament, because the league is so top heavy. Gonzaga is not really a mid major... they don't share the same struggles and qualities of a typical mid major. I wouldn't mind seeing the WCC without Gonzaga. With that said, Gonzaga to the Big East seems like a bad idea.

Same could be said about WSU and the MVC - and I have said that for a while now

It seems that the MVC's current performance without WSU is suggesting so, as well.  When one team in a conference has an insurmountably greater financial commitment from the rest, it's probably not good for the conference (though we could argue to no end the definition of "insurmountable").  It is one of the reasons I find talk of Grand Canyon as an expansion candidate to be chilling.

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/949033296163491847

[VUGrad1314]

https://www.racerfans.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18401&sid=39bee5d80156b501579bfd50ac578e6a&start=20

Racer fans seem ready to join the MVC if and when an invite comes. One person in the linked thread has repeatedly stated that he believes their invite will come this month. That would be a little surprising to me since I find it hard to believe that anything would come out before the expansion committee meets in March. In any case if this guy is right, and Murray State's invite is coming soon, that means one of two things:

1. The MVC has reversed course and will accept an 11 team model. (unlikely) or
2. The MVC has found a suitable 12th member. Who could it be? My guess is it's either Belmont NKU or Milwaukee

[nkvu]

https://www.racerfans.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18401&sid=39bee5d80156b501579bfd50ac578e6a&start=20

Racer fans seem ready to join the MVC if and when an invite comes. One person in the linked thread has repeatedly stated that he believes their invite will come this month. That would be a little surprising to me since I find it hard to believe that anything would come out before the expansion committee meets in March. In any case if this guy is right, and Murray State's invite is coming soon, that means one of two things:

1. The MVC has reversed course and will accept an 11 team model. (unlikely) or
2. The MVC has found a suitable 12th member. Who could it be? My guess is it's either Belmont NKU or Milwaukee

Here's one hoping it's NKU because:

1. I won't have to drive over 200 miles to see Valpo play

2. I would love to see the reaction of certain WSU posters watching a school some WSU big shots laughed at leaping past the Horizon League to the Valley!