Horizon League has filed a lawsuit against Valpo & Missouri Valley Conference

[agibson]

Interviewed MVC General Counsel Mitch Margo about the situation.

With quite a few quotes from Valpo "spokesperson" (head of IMC, Integrated Marketing and Communications) Nicole Niemi. Hopefully the typo(es?) are Schroeder's. This new information definitely changes the complexion of the case.

I wonder why Valpo didn't put this information out sooner, when the story first broke.

[wh]

When this issue first surfaced, regretfully I bought into the narrative that Valpo may be trying to beat the HL out of money that it obviously owed. Now it appears it's exactly the opposite - the HL is trying to beat Valpo out of money it obviously doesn't owe. I should have known better.

[FWalum]

Talked to Dr. Heckler about this rather extensively on Wednesday and he said exactly the same things.  Valparaiso had these separate agreements, including the equity situation, with the league that were outside of the normal bylaws and VU felt these extenuating circumstances required the negotiation also outlined in the by laws which the league ignored.  VU feels that the MVC was brought into this because the Horizon is preemptively telling the MVC not to attempt to raid other schools from the Horizon. If both Valpo and Milwaukee would have gone to the MVC it would have been devastating to the HL.

I also wanted to say that President Heckler felt that the Horizon League's representation of him in the court documents as the "author' and leading proponent of the amendment to bylaw 2 which changed the exit fee to $500,000 dollars was misleading.  He told me that he only felt that it was fair that new teams coming into the league should face the same consequences to withdrawal as VU did when they entered the league. Since VU had a separate and completely different withdrawal agreement with the league, VU thought that agreement should be considered.

So other articles and I believe one radio show that I heard said that VU should just pay the fee and be done with it because $500,000 was not that big of a deal.  I asked him about that and he said that all the other schools mentioned in those accounts were also schools that had large football revenue with much larger athletic budgets.  He told me that $500K was not a trivial amount to VU.

[vu72]

It's hard to feel bad for the Horizon League.

A) The Horizon League has continually just raided the Summit League

B) The Horizon League has genuinely screwed Valpo on multiple occasions in our time there.
-LeCrone changed the Tourney Location/Format that was meant to help the Top Seed & reward the best regular season teams. (NEVER would have done that to Butler)
-They basically gave VU the middle finger by moving that garbage tournament to Detroit & claimed it was Neutral site, which is a blatant lie
-They chose favorites when Butler was in the League
-Screwed Valpo (AND the other Horizon League Teams) by adding NKU the year Valpo had a team that had a very real chance to be an At-Large Team. Hurt our strength of schedule/RPI. They also may have cost their conference monetary Tourney units & at-large prestige.

The Horizon League gave us no incentive to want to stay & showed zero ability to clean up its act at HQ.

Overall the Horizon League was great for Valpo (early-on) in our 10 years there but we quickly outgrew the conference and its a shell of itself now. I just don't feel any sympathy for the Horizon League (particularly for LeCrone or HL HQ).


There is still a chance the MVC expands to 12 and they may take Milwaukee. I personally don't see much value in Milwaukee. They aren't particularly great at Basketball & haven't been for a few years now (they won the HL Tourney in 2013-2014 but they weren't above .500 in Conference play that year.) They were one of the lowest in attendance in the Conference with the largest school. Commuter campus doesn't fit MVC mold. 3rd most popular college team in their own market. A chaotic Athletics Department and Administration. Although I enjoyed having our large Milwaukee based Alumni base being able to easily get to games and get involved. Maybe they'll get good again under Baldwin but their team next season look rough. The new UWM staff has really been hitting recruiting trail hard and they've been throwing out offers like candy on Halloween this Summer/Fall.

If the conference expands I'd personally like to see the best Basketball schools possible. Maybe Belmont & Murray State. maybe UWM as a plan b or c. If the Conference expands it NEEDS to get the both teams right & not settle.

If that would happen the Valley definitely moves up a few notches.  It would make sense with the current public/private blend by adding one public and one private.  Belmont seems unwilling at this point to entertain the move.  Perhaps Lipscomb, a private also in Nashville.  Not Milwaukee, as you suggest, kind of out of the market and a commuter school, perfect for the Horizon MO.

[crusaderjoe]

Anyone want to make a prediction about how this lawsuit will affect future expansion, if at all, among the MVC, Summit, and HL?  I am going to speculate wildly.  And I mean wildly.

I think it's entirely plausible that the Summit and the MVC will now form an unspoken alliance of some sort, both now having been "wronged" by the HL in some capacity (the Summit by being raided all these years and the MVC now by being sued).  Plus, there are nexuses between the MVC and the Summit via the MVFC and also because some MVC teams like VU serve as affiliate members in minor sports with the Summit.  It's in the best interest of each league to exchange pleasantries and to focus efforts to negate HL expansion to the west.  One out of spite, the other out of survival.

The MVC wants to move to 12 and it will.  The Summit wants to survive against the WAC, and it will.  So here is what happens.  Everyone knows that MO State needs a travel partner and going to 11 is untenable. By mutual assurances, the MVC pledges to the Summit that it will not draw a team from their league (Omaha, UMKC, ORU) to fill that need.  This in turn, keeps the Summit stable, and essentially kills any westward expansion by the HL since ORU, Omaha, Denver et. al. are now all off of the table.

UMKC moves from the WAC to the Summit.  IPFW moves to the HL along with one other.  Summit stays at 9.  HL moves to 12 with sights set at 14.  The MVC, recognizing that a close travel partner to MO State is now potentially off the table via the Summit, still sitting with 10 members, takes either Murray and NKU to get to 12 OR takes Murray and Detroit to get to 12, keeping the 6-6 public private split.  Murray is allowed into the MVFC because of the alliance between the Summit League and the MVC.  The later creates a problem for the very travel partner centric HL since there would be no viable travel partner for Oakland.  The former essentially ends major southern HL expansion generally, although I suppose Morehead could be on the table.  NMSU re-evaluates, and chooses to remain in the WAC instead of the HL.

Having now been penned in to the west and the south generally, the HL is now forced to move east for teams 13 and 14, and the Summit breathes a sigh of relief.  Valpo, being the farthest from MO State, agrees to some kind of intra league scheduling arrangement that helps MO State with travel costs until the Sun Belt is ready to expand again. 

This happens over the next 2-3 years.  In 2027, Valpo wins its first FCS national title, defeating Delaware 20-16, on two safeties late in the 4th quarter.

[VU2014]

That is quite the prediction.

This what I see happening.

MVC Expansion:
-Belmont* (MVC wants them but they won't because they don't want to invest in every other sport to compete in a much better league & I think Byrd is very content beating up the weak OVC & doesn't want the challenge of competing in a much better league at his age)
-Murray State (obvious add)

2 options for the 2nd team:
-Milwaukee (the MVC has shown they want to be in big markets by adding Loyola of us the 1st time (a mistake) & they may not learn from their mistakes)

-NKU (I'm not going to lie I'd be a little irk if they join because they never as a D1 "earned" it or had to go through ups & downs as school to get to one of the best Mid-Major Conferences. Also they're fans are cocky & annoying. They think their hot-$hit & started jawing off on social media because of their cake-walk in the HL Tourney last year.)

My Prediction the MVC adds: Murray State & NKU... but if they REALLY wanted to screw the HL (which is not the primary goal) they'd take Milwaukee and there would be no travel partner for Green Bay. Green Bay would look to join the Summit League and would actually not be a bad fit.

[EddieCabot]

-NKU (I'm not going to lie I'd be a little irk if they join because they never as a D1 "earned" it or had to go through ups & downs as school to get to one of the best Mid-Major Conferences. Also they're fans are cocky & annoying. They think their hot-$hit & started jawing off on social media because of their cake-walk in the HL Tourney last year.)

Agreed.  They did have an absolute cake-walk.  And their fans are extremely cocky.  Just making the NCAAT is nothing to brag about ... even a crap league like the HL had to send someone.  I'll listen to their crap when they win a NCAAT tourney game.

[VU2014]

Just a friendly occasional reminder: Valpo has a 3 game winning streak against Butler. That is all.

Waiting for Butler to man up & schedule a Home-&-Home with Valpo. The ball is in LaVal's court. Hopefully he isn't a chicken liver like his predecessor.

[vu72]

Just a friendly occasional reminder: Valpo has a 3 game winning streak against Butler. That is all.

Waiting for Butler to man up & schedule a Home-&-Home with Valpo. The ball is in LaVal's court. Hopefully he isn't a chicken liver like his predecessor.

It is actually 4.   

[VU2014]

Death, Taxes, & idiotic Oakland fans...

https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/912358694196826113

[vufan75]

OU fan seems a bit paranoid. Why worry about Valpo now...we are gone from HL. Yay! Enjoy IUPUI I say. Had he/she actually read the article he might understand the Valpo position. Just because Valpo voted to raise exit fees after Butler's exit does not necessarily void a contract Valpo entered into with the HL upon joining the league. I'm not an attorney but that seems to be the big issue or am I missing something?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[vu72]

OU fan seems a bit paranoid. Why worry about Valpo now...we are gone from HL. Yay! Enjoy IUPUI I say. Had he/she actually read the article he might understand the Valpo position. Just because Valpo voted to raise exit fees after Butler's exit does not necessarily void a contract Valpo entered into with the HL upon joining the league. I'm not an attorney but that seems to be the big issue or am I missing something?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

I don't think you are missing anything.  It seems like basic contract law.  We have a deal with the Horizon that allows us to leave with no penalty.  Whether we voted to increase the penalty for leaving for future teams is a moot point.  Kinda like saying to a car dealer that sold us a car for X and then later sold a car to someone else for Y.  Doesn't make sense for us to give the dealer additional funds just because he was charges others more in the future.  Or perhaps a better way to look at it would be from a private golf club standpoint.  I got in for X because that was the deal at the time.  Later I voted with the majority of the members to increase the initiation to Y for future members.  That certainly wouldn't be retroactive to existing members.

[VU2014]

Oakland fans have some major insecurity issues... Probably the most insecure "fan-base" I've ever seen.

[valpospartan]

Oakland fans have some major insecurity issues... Probably the most insecure "fan-base" I've ever seen.

You obviously don't remember ORU fans.

[VU2014]

Valpo Lawsuit Update
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/919915136999047169
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/valpo-lawsuit-update/

"Valley Hoops Insider has now learned that Valpo's motion to have the trial moved to Porter County, from Evansville will be heard on November 3. That move, some believe, would immediately pull the Missouri Valley Conference from the suit."

[VU2014]

Some significant news in terms of the HL lawsuit. I'm no lawyer but this sounds like some positive news for Valparaiso.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/930926226793025541

[FWalum]

Some significant news in terms of the HL lawsuit. I'm no lawyer but this sounds like some positive news for Valparaiso.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/930926226793025541

Based on what some of the MVC staff that were interviewed about the suit said in their comments, this is really good news for the MVC. They were saying all along that the only legitimate reason the suit included the conference was that the Horizon League wanted to file somewhere else besides Porter County.

[wh]

Some significant news in terms of the HL lawsuit. I'm no lawyer but this sounds like some positive news for Valparaiso.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/930926226793025541

Based on what some of the MVC staff that were interviewed about the suit said in their comments, this is really good news for the MVC. They were saying all along that the only legitimate reason the suit included the conference was that the Horizon League wanted to file somewhere else besides Porter County.

Always good to play at home, but Porter County is no kangaroo court system. Valpo will still have to make a strong case that the $500k early exit clause doesn't apply to them.

[FWalum]

Always good to play at home, but Porter County is no kangaroo court system. Valpo will still have to make a strong case that the $500k early exit clause doesn't apply to them.

President Heckler made a pretty convincing case when I talked to him in September. Valpo had made the separate agreements with the league concerning the early exit and the equity stake, all of which were much higher than the conference bylaw exit fees and equity amounts at that time. Valpo's position was that the new bylaws did not supersede the separate agreements that Valpo and the league had previously negotiated.

[justducky]

Always good to play at home, but Porter County is no kangaroo court system. Valpo will still have to make a strong case that the $500k early exit clause doesn't apply to them.

From many years of observation I have noted that VU students never seem to win in the Porter County courts.  .  Given that track record maybe our best defense would have been to leave this case in Vanderburgh County.   

[Dave_2010]

Always good to play at home, but Porter County is no kangaroo court system. Valpo will still have to make a strong case that the $500k early exit clause doesn't apply to them.

From many years of observation I have noted that VU students never seem to win in the Porter County courts.  .  Given that track record maybe our best defense would have been to leave this case in Vanderburgh County.   

Perhaps we can go to pre trial diversion with Judge Chidester...not that I'm speaking from experience or anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oklahomamick]

Wonder if we could counter with a tort lawsuit against the HL? 

[VU2014]

Wonder if we could counter with a tort lawsuit against the HL? 

Sue for defamation and the fact that LeCrone is a terrible commissioner 

[agibson]

Wonder if we could counter with a tort lawsuit against the HL? 

Sue for defamation and the fact that LeCrone is a terrible commissioner 

Realistically, in the Valley reporting (the stuff that quoted Nicole Niemi; from Harry Schroeder I think) there was discussion of a counter-suit from Valpo seeking what were apparently contractually stipulated repayment of initial fees. The news report made it sound like a probability, but maybe that was a negotiating strategy.

[Just Sayin]

The Horizon League has decided to give participation trophies for every team at the end of the regular season. "The benefit of competition isn't actually winning" says the commissioner. "Everybody is a winner and champion. Therefore, we will not participate in conference championship games which pick the 'winning team' for an automatic bid to NCAA tournament."