Horizon League has filed a lawsuit against Valpo & Missouri Valley Conference

[elephtheria47]

That is what I am hung up on. $500k is not THAT much money and its making both sides look bad. Of course the HL would sue if Valpo doesnt pay so I can't blame them.....really interesting to learn valpo stance. Maybe lecrone sued the MVC to gain access/insight on how to run a successful conference 😂

[VUSL98]

My lawyer perspective: Often, lawsuits have little to do with money.  This is the Horizon League's parting shot at Valpo which reflects poorly on the HL.  This is a contract dispute.  Contracts are written to be broken.  If the contract calls for Valpo to pay an exit fee, Valpo needs to live up to that agreement.  I haven't seen the contract but from what I have read it sounds like the HL wants to hold Valpo to a verbal commitment rather than the written agreement.

[VU2014]

I understand that this will be handle behind closed doors & I don't expect anyone from the University to comment publicly about the matter but can someone from the University anonymously just give their side of the story to Pgmado so they can at least give some form of defense or rationale behind this? It would be a better look then the status quo. The University already said they had private donors ready pledge to cover the exit-fee.

I don't begrudge to University for trying to settle for a number below the $500k if they think they have a case. There has to be more to this story we don't know about. Many seem to think its black & white case but none of us, include that forbes reporter have seen the fine-print.

It's comes across to casual readers that Valpo doesn't want to pay any buyout, which I'm guessing isn't the case at all in reality, even though in court they may be saying that. As an Alumni I'd like to see the University at least get their side of the story out there through back channels somewhere, because its a little embarrassing that the University is coming across as a little "cheap" & "wily" here. Manage the PR for reputations sake.

The Horizon League is coming across as pathetic for suing the Missouri Valley Conference... I'm waiting for lawsuits against the A10 for losing Butler and if their claims are valid then the Summit League would have legal grounds to sue the Horizon League over taking IUPUI in conference realignment. Doesn't surprise me LeCrone would do something like that. Just smack of pettiness & desperateness. No one is looking good right now.

[vu72]

but can someone from the University anonymously just give their side of the story to Pgmado so they can at least give some form of defense or rationale behind this? It would be a better look then the status quo. The University already said they had private donors ready pledge to cover the exit-fee.

This article addresses some of your questions:

http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/horizon-league-sues-valparaiso-missouri-valley-conference/article_db307458-bf1d-5d0d-a039-9f4b077f1b7f.html

[EddieCabot]

I'm a lawyer, but this is out of my wheelhouse.

Seems odd that venue is in Evansville.  However, it makes sense.  The suit says that venue is proper there since Evansville (a member of one of defendants) is located there.  So, venue under Indiana civil procedure is likely proper.  I would say the reason is simply to get away from Valpo.  They ask for a jury trial, so it would be dumb to have the suit in northwest Indiana where Valpo may have some simpathizers.  I looked up the law firm on the internet.  They market themselves as litigators, so they probably look for any tactical advantage regardless of the actual impact.

Most lawsuits settle in the neighborhood of 50 cents on the dollar (everyone is half right and half wrong), so expect Valpo and/or MVC to have to cough up $200-300K in order to settle.  That is, of course, if there are no other special circumstances, such as politics or NCAA tourney requirements require no open claims, etc.

That's my 2 cents, but probably not worth 2 cents.

If Valpo ends up settling for anything less than $500k, then this is a brilliant move by Heckler.  It's just like buying a car ... why pay the sticker price when you can negotiate a better deal?

[agibson]

I have to wonder if there's more to the story than this; otherwise, Valpo comes off looking less than honorable here.

It's tempting to think that there are some hurt feelings involved, maybe on both sides. But, what do I know? Maybe a lawsuit is considered a completely reasonable, rational response, in some circles, to negotiate a discount.

Or maybe Valpo thinks by the letter of the law they don't owe the exit fee, and they'd be letting down their stakeholders if they paid it.

I agree that the optics of Valpo trying to avoid the fee don't look great, at least from my perspective.

The optics of the HL forcing Valpo to delay the announcement until the post-season was finished, and then filing a lawsuit against Valpo and the MVC with various allegations, also aren't fantastic.

[Pathfinder]

If Valpo ends up settling for anything less than $500k, then this is a brilliant move by Heckler.  It's just like buying a car ... why pay the sticker price when you can negotiate a better deal?

Um, I'll bite... because you already entered into a contract to pay the sticker price?

[vu72]

If Valpo ends up settling for anything less than $500k, then this is a brilliant move by Heckler.  It's just like buying a car ... why pay the sticker price when you can negotiate a better deal?

Um, I'll bite... because you already entered into a contract to pay the sticker price?

[/b]

That is the issue.  Did we or didn't we?  Read the article I posted above.

[IrishDawg]

The Horizon League is coming across as pathetic for suing the Missouri Valley Conference... I'm waiting for lawsuits against the A10 for losing Butler and if their claims are valid then the Summit League would have legal grounds to sue the Horizon League over taking IUPUI in conference realignment. Doesn't surprise me LeCrone would do something like that. Just smack of pettiness & desperateness. No one is looking good right now.

They could have sued the A10, but given that Butler paid the exit fee and followed the legal contract between the school and the league, I doubt that would work out.  Butler actually had intended to compete in the Horizon in 2012-13, but given the other schools and league's stance that Butler wouldn't be able to represent the league in NCAA competitions, that predicated an earlier departure.

And really, who cares how Valpo looks to the few people who actually pick up on this story?  Kids (outside of maybe those birthed by staffers at the Horizon League office) aren't going to stop coming to VU because of this and it doesn't change anything about the basketball program.  The school, whether it's within its legal rights or not, is going to save some money, which means possibly more for athletics or the general students at the school, and that's a good thing.  The optics of this, really on both sides are going to have a minimal impact in my opinion.

[wh]

Butler actually had intended to compete in the Horizon in 2012-13, but given the other schools and league's stance that Butler wouldn't be able to represent the league in NCAA competitions, that predicated an earlier departure.

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but building on IrishDawg's point...

Could Valpo be claiming that the HL violated league bylaws by refusing to guarantee that they would represent the league in NCAA post season play, thereby rendering the financial penalty clause null and void?

[bigmosmithfan1]

Indeed. Also, wasn't one of the exit fees from either Butler or Loyola amortized over more than one year? (Seem to recall that for some reason). That precedent might also be a sticking point. Considering that VU doesn't spend ten bucks without a plan in place, I figure they've crunched the numbers and have determined that there's no way going to court is going to cost them more than paying the 500K straight out.

[E-Villan]

Both sides look kind of stupid here too unless there's some language in the agreement and or evidence we're not privy to. Suing the MVC seems foolish because it's extremely likely that the MVC's main inducement to Valpo was being a better more attractive more stable conference  Doug Elgin even credits Valpo for luring them. However Evansville may have been chosen because it's 1. In Indiana and would have jurisdiction on those grounds and a former HL\current Valley city with a rumored HL target (USI) and a fanbase that likely has fonder feelings for the HL where they were a power than the Valley where they struggle. Great way to get your name out in an important city for the HL wherein they should find a sympathetic populace that can't really be found in any other Indiana city. Also Heckler thinking his language wouldn't apply to Valpo seems a bit naive unless there's language in there that we don't know.

I am unsure why it was filed in Evansville as well. Seems like Evansville or Terre Haute would be the last two Indiana cities the Horizon would want to file a suit involving the Valley. To clarify, Evansville was never in the Horizon. It was still the MCC at that time, and of the current Horizon teams, only Detroit was a conference mate of ours.  It didn't change to the Horizon until all of the Mid-Con Hyphens came, which was after we left. I don't think you could find 12 people total that would ever associate UE with the Horizon, let alone fill a jury.  Most people around here don't see USI even going D-1 anytime soon, let alone associate them with the Horizon. UE will be starting it's 24th season in the Valley this year. There is absolutely no way the Horizon could even come close to being viewed as favorably as the Valley around here. Of the larger Indiana markets, Indy and Ft. Wayne would be far more favorable to the Horizon than Evansville.

[4throwfan]

"I am unsure why it was filed in Evansville as well. Seems like Evansville or Terre Haute would be the last two Indiana cities the Horizon would want to file a suit involving the Valley."

HL may not have had a choice.  Due to Indiana civil procedure rules, they likely had to file in one of three places: Valpo, Evansville, or Terre Haute, and possibly Indy (I'm not familiar with Indiana rules of civil procedure).  Probably less likely to have a crowd friendly to MVC/Valpo in Evansville.  Only other possible viable choice would be to try to file in St. Louis, but that may cause problems as well.

I've seen a couple of posts here and on twitter wondering what the damages could have possibly been.  Short answer is: it doesn't matter.  When parties to a contract know that damages would be hard to ascertain, they agree on damages up front.  These are called "liquidated damages".  For example, suppose that a town is going to change a traffic intersection from a stop sign intersection to a stop light intersection.  If the contractor is late, it is nearly impossible to calculate what the damages would be.  But, both parties agree that there would be monetary losses for the town.  So, they agree to some amount, e.g. $100 per day, as damages for late completion.  So long as the dollar amount cannot be shown (in this case shown by Valpo/MVC) to be merely a penalty, then the liquidated damages are enforceable.  So, HL will not need to prove their actual damages.  They will simply need to prove that the contract was breached.  Valpo/MVC may try to argue that the damages are merely a penalty.  But so long as HL can come up with some explanation as to a monetary loss, then the Valpo/MVC argument will fail.  I see HL winning that argument. 

In short, to win at trial, or more importantly to develop a strong settlement position, Valpo/MVC would need to have a different contractual defense.

I don't have any knowledge of the facts here, so I'm just speculating.  But, I'd be shocked if Valpo and the MVC didn't long ago come up with an exit strategy to deal with this liquidated damage.  If this drags out through the next academic year, then it would seem like part of the plan went awry. 

[wh]

"I am unsure why it was filed in Evansville as well. Seems like Evansville or Terre Haute would be the last two Indiana cities the Horizon would want to file a suit involving the Valley."

HL may not have had a choice.  Due to Indiana civil procedure rules, they likely had to file in one of three places: Valpo, Evansville, or Terre Haute, and possibly Indy (I'm not familiar with Indiana rules of civil procedure).  Probably less likely to have a crowd friendly to MVC/Valpo in Evansville.  Only other possible viable choice would be to try to file in St. Louis, but that may cause problems as well.

I've seen a couple of posts here and on twitter wondering what the damages could have possibly been.  Short answer is: it doesn't matter.  When parties to a contract know that damages would be hard to ascertain, they agree on damages up front.  These are called "liquidated damages".  For example, suppose that a town is going to change a traffic intersection from a stop sign intersection to a stop light intersection.  If the contractor is late, it is nearly impossible to calculate what the damages would be.  But, both parties agree that there would be monetary losses for the town.  So, they agree to some amount, e.g. $100 per day, as damages for late completion.  So long as the dollar amount cannot be shown (in this case shown by Valpo/MVC) to be merely a penalty, then the liquidated damages are enforceable.  So, HL will not need to prove their actual damages.  They will simply need to prove that the contract was breached.  Valpo/MVC may try to argue that the damages are merely a penalty.  But so long as HL can come up with some explanation as to a monetary loss, then the Valpo/MVC argument will fail.  I see HL winning that argument. 

In short, to win at trial, or more importantly to develop a strong settlement position, Valpo/MVC would need to have a different contractual defense.

I don't have any knowledge of the facts here, so I'm just speculating.  But, I'd be shocked if Valpo and the MVC didn't long ago come up with an exit strategy to deal with this liquidated damage.  If this drags out through the next academic year, then it would seem like part of the plan went awry. 

Interesting information. Nice to have attorneys on board (IrishDawg also) to bring some clarity. 

[VU2014]

Must listen Union Street Hoops Podcast! Paul did a interview with the Forbes writer who broke the story about HL suing VU & MVC. Also does another interview with Luke Gore breaking down the schedule and why the schedule is the way it is.

http://www.nwitimes.com/digital/audio/union-street-hoops/podcast-union-street-hoops-episode/audio_bcec8bec-8dcb-11e7-8f86-5b81f5440cce.html

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/903012267758944256

[oklahomamick]

could we use as a defense? "The HL is not offering the same product as the one when we signed the contract with HL?   

[FWalum]

could we use as a defense? "The HL is not offering the same product as the one when we signed the contract with HL?   

Interesting thought... If the Horizon had properly replaced or retained Butler and Loyola, we would not have felt the pressure to move to a better conference.  Their recent move to a single site conference tournament also inhibited the ability of the league, and in particular Valparaiso University, to earn a larger share of NCAA television revenue causing damages to both the conference and individual schools.  This mismanagement by Jon LeCrone is the true breach of contract that should be brought out in this suit. 

[wh]

mh - "We shouldn't have to pay the 500k penalty that I recommended because I didn't participate in the conference call where it was voted on." 

Are you kidding me?

[VU2014]

mh - "We shouldn't have to pay the 500k penalty that I recommended because I didn't participate in the conference call where it was voted on." 
Are you kidding me?

To be fair there is more to the story then we probably know about and there may be documentation/paperwork (that isn't public record) that builds VU's case and it sounds like the Horizon League didn't even entertain arbitration which may have been mandatory as part of the bylaws. There is so much to this story we don't know about. But sounds like there is plenty of bad blood on both sides.

[bigmosmithfan1]

Not a lawyer so I'll leave the analysis of the case to those who are. What I will say is that if the contract has a clause requiring arbitration, that can be a major point in VU's favor.

Obviously, this is not the same situation, but one of the reasons the Wrigleyville rooftop owners basically had their case tossed very quickly when they were trying to sue to stop the Cubs' renovations a couple years back was that the contract between the team and the rooftops specifically called for arbitration to determine a financial remedy for any breach or violation of the contract. The rooftops never entered into any good-faith arbitration efforts.

While the Chicago media was hyperventilating over how would the Cubs get around the "contract until 2024," how bad they were going to lose in court, and whether they'd have to move to Rosemont or whatever, some adept Cubs bloggers actually got a copy of the contract and noted that it was rooftops who'd likely lose any court case, in large part due to the arbitration clause, and that worst-case scenario is that the Cubs would end up paying market value for the buildings whose views would be obstructed by their new video boards. Now, granted, it's always going to depend on how a judge views how such a clause is written, but it was pretty clear that in the Cubs' case, the rooftops' demanding 5-10x the market value for their buildings without independent arbitration didn't cut it.

I doubt the HL has overplayed their hand as badly as the Wrigleyville rooftop owners did (the Cubs now own 12 of the 16 buildings around Wrigley and one of the rooftop owners is in jail after the increased scrutiny of the case brought to light that he had failed to pay millions in both taxes and agreed-upon royalties to the Cubs), but again, I'd venture that VU doesn't say "OK, sue us" without having good reason to do so, either.

[4throwfan]

Can someone who has looked at the HL contract tell me how to get to it quickly?

I haven't seen the pleadings, but in Paul's podcast, he mentions that Valpo filed a motion for change of venue.  IF arbitration was required, then that filing might have waived Valpo's right to compel arbitration.  Haven't seen the pleading, so I can't say for sure.

Note that arbitrations are private, so if arbitration is chosen, that will likely be the last bit of public news that we hear, which may be frustrating for the fan base.  The fact that arbitration was required, and the parties chose public litigation (along with the fact that HL included more in its lawsuit than necessary) suggests to me that one or both parties wanted this fight in the public arena.

Having not seen any pleadings other than the complaint, not seeing the contract, and not knowing any facts at all, I may be way off base.

[VU2014]

An update on the HL Lawsuit from 'Valley Hoops Insider'. Interviewed MVC General Counsel Mitch Margo about the situation.

https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/911015810394705921
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/horizonvalparaiso-lawsuit/

[wh]

An update on the HL Lawsuit from 'Valley Hoops Insider'. Interviewed MVC General Counsel Mitch Margo about the situation.

https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/911015810394705921
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/horizonvalparaiso-lawsuit/

This puts a different light on EVERYTHING.  The Horizon League can go F itself.

[FWalum]

Talked to Dr. Heckler about this rather extensively on Wednesday and he said exactly the same things.  Valparaiso had these separate agreements, including the equity situation, with the league that were outside of the normal bylaws and VU felt these extenuating circumstances required the negotiation also outlined in the by laws which the league ignored.  VU feels that the MVC was brought into this because the Horizon is preemptively telling the MVC not to attempt to raid other schools from the Horizon. If both Valpo and Milwaukee would have gone to the MVC it would have been devastating to the HL.

[VU2014]

It's hard to feel bad for the Horizon League.

A) The Horizon League has continually just raided the Summit League

B) The Horizon League has genuinely screwed Valpo on multiple occasions in our time there.
-LeCrone changed the Tourney Location/Format that was meant to help the Top Seed & reward the best regular season teams. (NEVER would have done that to Butler)
-They basically gave VU the middle finger by moving that garbage tournament to Detroit & claimed it was Neutral site, which is a blatant lie
-They chose favorites when Butler was in the League
-Screwed Valpo (AND the other Horizon League Teams) by adding NKU the year Valpo had a team that had a very real chance to be an At-Large Team. Hurt our strength of schedule/RPI. They also may have cost their conference monetary Tourney units & at-large prestige.

The Horizon League gave us no incentive to want to stay & showed zero ability to clean up its act at HQ.

Overall the Horizon League was great for Valpo (early-on) in our 10 years there but we quickly outgrew the conference and its a shell of itself now. I just don't feel any sympathy for the Horizon League (particularly for LeCrone or HL HQ).


There is still a chance the MVC expands to 12 and they may take Milwaukee. I personally don't see much value in Milwaukee. They aren't particularly great at Basketball & haven't been for a few years now (they won the HL Tourney in 2013-2014 but they weren't above .500 in Conference play that year.) They were one of the lowest in attendance in the Conference with the largest school. Commuter campus doesn't fit MVC mold. 3rd most popular college team in their own market. A chaotic Athletics Department and Administration. Although I enjoyed having our large Milwaukee based Alumni base being able to easily get to games and get involved. Maybe they'll get good again under Baldwin but their team next season look rough. The new UWM staff has really been hitting recruiting trail hard and they've been throwing out offers like candy on Halloween this Summer/Fall.

If the conference expands I'd personally like to see the best Basketball schools possible. Maybe Belmont & Murray State. maybe UWM as a plan b or c. If the Conference expands it NEEDS to get the both teams right & not settle.