Enrollment numbers

[tjn2004]

Enrollment is down, money is tight...


Simple math says there should be a bit of over capacity in residences halls.


Brandt almost caused me to not transfer to VU way back in 02 for being such a dump compared to the little state school I was attending at the time, and has to be a major detriment to recruiting students now compared to our competition.


Why not mothball or even demolish those old dorms?  Cuts maintenance and utility costs immediately, and better utilization of the overall residency hall capacity.  Maybe even let more upperclassmen off campus to free up the nice dorms for more underclassmen.

[David81]

Why not mothball or even demolish those old dorms?  Cuts maintenance and utility costs immediately, and better utilization of the overall residency hall capacity.  Maybe even let more upperclassmen off campus to free up the nice dorms for more underclassmen.

Has undergraduate enrollment declined to the point where the vacancy rate is equivalent to an entire residence hall? If not, then better to keep Brandt around, because in the student recruiting game, a so-so dorm space beats no dorm space any day.

As for letting more students live off-campus, VU has always been somewhat paternalistic about this, likely fueled by opportunities to generate revenue from dorm rents and the political reality that keeping most students in dorms makes for better town and gown relationships with the surrounding Valparaiso community.

Mothballing isn't the best optic. Nothing says "campus on the decline" to prospective applicants more than empty buildings.

...and now I'm wondering if Brandt has the same pull-out beds that we had back in the early 80s. 

[vu72]

Why not mothball or even demolish those old dorms?  Cuts maintenance and utility costs immediately, and better utilization of the overall residency hall capacity.  Maybe even let more upperclassmen off campus to free up the nice dorms for more underclassmen.

Has undergraduate enrollment declined to the point where the vacancy rate is equivalent to an entire residence hall? If not, then better to keep Brandt around, because in the student recruiting game, a so-so dorm space beats no dorm space any day.

As for letting more students live off-campus, VU has always been somewhat paternalistic about this, likely fueled by opportunities to generate revenue from dorm rents and the political reality that keeping most students in dorms makes for better town and gown relationships with the surrounding Valparaiso community.

Mothballing isn't the best optic. Nothing says "campus on the decline" to prospective applicants more than empty buildings.

...and now I'm wondering if Brandt has the same pull-out beds that we had back in the early 80s. 

I've posted this before, but here is the Brandt hall intro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0GIhFJtBhY

[crusadermoe]

Is it just me or do today's VU students seem "over-lounged"?   

The new library has about 12 fireplaces with comfy chairs etc. The new union seems flush with them too. Then the these old dorms ( which no longer serve food) have now inserted more soft comfy furniture in those spaces. I wonder what is the ratio between residential students and comfy chairs?  Maybe a psychology student could study it.

I know sound like a grumpy old man. "In my day we didn't all stretch out across a sofa or big chair to do homework!  ...We stayed for 18 hours while the lights turned off and on, got sores on our rear ends and splinters in our britches,....and we liked it!" Seriously, I used to hide in one of those "booths" in the Moellering library basement and just grind out paper that had to be done. It takes some willpower that isn't always served well by comfy couches, coffee bars, and play lists running through your mind. And we liked it!!

[vu84v2]

First, there are cases where people have been put in comfy chairs to try to elicit information from them. This is done if poking them with a soft cushion has been ineffective. Nobody expects this.

On a different note, the difference between universities before 2000 and now is that there is much more competitiveness. You discuss comfy chairs, but on a much larger scale your same comments can be applied to dorms, food, etc. People say "why has college gotten so expensive?" There are multiple reasons, but one of them is the necessary investment to have benefits and comforts that are at least on par with other universities.

[David81]

Is it just me or do today's VU students seem "over-lounged"?   

The new library has about 12 fireplaces with comfy chairs etc. The new union seems flush with them too. Then the these old dorms ( which no longer serve food) have now inserted more soft comfy furniture in those spaces. I wonder what is the ratio between residential students and comfy chairs?  Maybe a psychology student could study it.

I know sound like a grumpy old man. "In my day we didn't all stretch out across a sofa or big chair to do homework!  ...We stayed for 18 hours while the lights turned off and on, got sores on our rear ends and splinters in our britches,....and we liked it!" Seriously, I used to hide in one of those "booths" in the Moellering library basement and just grind out paper that had to be done. It takes some willpower that isn't always served well by comfy couches, coffee bars, and play lists running through your mind. And we liked it!!

It's not only VU students. The expectations game for residence hall living has changed a lot since, well, the previous century of my day. It's the students-as-consumers model at play here, and to be sure many prospective students are comparing dorm living amenities in making their decisions.

In my not-so-humble opinion, these rising expectations have intersected directly with the influence of the US News rankings in informing student choice. It puts pressure on all schools to spend more money on bells & whistles. Which, unless you've got an Ivy League endowment fund, means plenty more demands on your fundraising priorities and annual budgets.

It also increases, directly or indirectly, tuition, room, and board costs. The money for those nice rooms and lounges has to come from somewhere, after all.

Mentions of Brandt Hall make me a tad nostalgic, fueled by memories of how the Brandt Hall cafeteria would become a makeshift, late-night study hall after the dinner service was completed. Thanks to my procrastinatory nature, a lot of near-all nighters were spent there working on term papers late in the semester!

[usc4valpo]

The last 3 comments were outstanding and align with my recent recruiting visits with my daughter. Regarding dorm ammenities, that is of big importance to students today. Being the old engineering fart that I am, I would think academic curriculum, lab and comport needs are high on my list.

One area that in my opinion is of critical importance is a decent accessible fitness center as well as possible classes for aerobics, strength and wellness. As a country physical and mental health has decline and an investment here would enable student success in the near and long term.

[vu72]

One area that in my opinion is of critical importance is a decent accessible fitness center as well as possible classes for aerobics, strength and wellness. As a country physical and mental health has decline and an investment here would enable student success in the near and long term.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqKb1x1_g7s

[usc4valpo]

I am an idiot.

[vu72]

I am an idiot.

[vu84v2]

vu72 - Thanks for posting the brief videos.

Regarding the student rec center, you can see the issue of competition versus other universities. I look at that video and think that it looks fine (thus at parity versus competition). But some universities in which Valpo competes for students have a track, a pool in the same building, locker rooms (Valpo may have that - it was just not in the video and I know that building is pretty small), basketball courts and/or courts for other sports (few would have all of these). When universities need facilities with many of those amenities to compete, it drives up cost....which universities attempt to regain through tuition (though, again, there are also other reasons for ever rising tuition).

[crusadermoe]

Yes, the old bookstore as a fitness center is a good interim step.

As another piece, maybe there are aerobic excercise machines in the old dorm cafeterias?  if not, that seems like a natural way to help out the early riser morning workout types who might not want to brave 530am winter car scraping to get there or walk that far.  You could put in some nice space with frosted windows etc. to pick up the window light.

No free weights,......just treadmills, elipticals with TVs etc.  Where there's a will there's a way. Is there a will somewhere to augment the comfy chairs?

[crusader05]

I know when I was there cardio equipment was in the dorms but then we didn't have a rec center so maybe that all moved out. I know they also use ARC space for classes and such. I'm not sure how much of an upgrade we would need outside of more space? or do we have enough space for the size of campus we have? Especially now with so many chain gyms that have memberships that travel

[valpo95]

Yes, the old bookstore as a fitness center is a good interim step.

As another piece, maybe there are aerobic excercise machines in the old dorm cafeterias?  if not, that seems like a natural way to help out the early riser morning workout types who might not want to brave 530am winter car scraping to get there or walk that far.  You could put in some nice space with frosted windows etc. to pick up the window light.

No free weights,......just treadmills, elipticals with TVs etc.  Where there's a will there's a way. Is there a will somewhere to augment the comfy chairs?

Moe, it is a good idea to put the machines in the old cafeteria spaces.

I would point out that the current fitness center is located in an old cafeteria. It was re-purposed to be the bookstore (maybe in the late 1990s?), then re-purposed to be the fitness center. 

[vu72]

Yes, the old bookstore as a fitness center is a good interim step.

Actually, I believe it was formerly the cafeteria between Dau and Kreinheder. (probably way before your time!)

No free weights,......just treadmills, elipticals with TVs etc.

Um, you might want to look at the video one more time!

[NotBryceDrew]

Valpo22, sent a PM a while back. Not sure if you check them, fyi.

[crusadermoe]

Before we went down the rabbit trail of fitness equipment, we were curious about the enrollment forecast.

Head counts are usually announced early in September after the first couple of weeks of scrambling ends. Any bets on freshmen this fall vs. last year? I have no idea. Throwing a blind dart, I will take +25.  I don't know if Vegas offers this.

[NotBryceDrew]

+25 on the bet you didn't clarify and the line Vegas doesn't offer... or +25 more then the last count we had for this year? Or maybe +25 from last year?

[crusader05]

I've heard similar to what we had last year in undergraduate and significantly above in graduate students.

[crusadermoe]

It's that time of year when all the various enrollment speculation and rumor ceases to matter. 

We won't know formally the number until a September census date.  But you can bet admissions has a number of first year students (freshmen and transfer) estimated down to minus twenty by now.

Time will tell.

[vu72]

If the enrollment is down it isn't due to a lack of foreign students. A picture on Facebook this morning shows hundreds of international students.

[David81]

If the enrollment is down it isn't due to a lack of foreign students. A picture on Facebook this morning shows hundreds of international students.

Foreign student enrollment at most schools has a long way to go in terms of recovery, and that includes VU. COVID, immigration/visa policy concerns & difficulties, and the political climate in the U.S. have all played roles here. On the latter two, I'm not trying to make a political point, merely acknowledging that perceptions abroad have made big dents in this regard.

And when you're talking about losing several hundred enrollments at a smaller university, it has an impact. I hope VU sees a bounce back on this, but it's an ongoing challenge.

[crusader05]

I have heard that our international enrollment is higher than it has been in years, including prior to the pandemic, with most of that being in our graduate programs as our computer science programs are a big draw.

[crusadermoe]

Yep, rumors like this will fly until the census day. 

The U.S. News college ranking issue usually hits in early September too.  It's weird that we moved into the "national universities" rank now in the US New rankings.  For Valpo admissions and PR writers, it is harder to brag smoothly that we rank #298! (or whatever rank we get). 

When we ranked #1 among midwest universities for many years in the late 70s and 80s that worked really well. For most of the next 40 years we were logically grouped with Bradley, Butler, Drake and we toggled back and forth at #2 through #6 in the midwest rankings.   

[oklahomamick]

Yes, but I loved being ranked against Arkansas and Oklahoma state and being ahead of them.  Loved it. 

Until they pass us......