Enrollment numbers

[DuneHwx]

Healthy endowment management calls for 4-5% annual distribution for general expense use. This number has historically provided for continued growth that weathers the down markets. Using a percentage for tangible use also helps to promote more giving. People want to see their legacy gifts used, not just hidden away.

[vu84v2]

Adding to DuneHwx comments, it is essentially guaranteed revenue year to year because (as DuneHwx pointed out) there is a targeted return from investing and a targeted distribution...and both are usually 5% (that is per Valpo's university advancement). Further, they don't distribute any money from a donation to endowment until the total value has increased by at least 5% from the original donation. The total annual payout from endowment does vary, however, because some donations do not follow this structure - they might accrue more value until any money is paid out or they may pay out sooner than traditional endowed funds.

[vu72]

Is Valpo going to graduate a class bigger than what is hoped for in the freshman class?  I just don't know when the decline started.  If it is the case, then the battle is even more uphill.

[crusadermoe]

That's a good question. Fingers are crossed that it is not a big difference.

That's why a small entering class is so brutal.  You take that financial hit for four years while they rinse through the system. 

[crusader05]

I believe that this years class will be bigger than the incoming but not by as much as before. I believe last years graduating class was the big class (it was also the only class to get a full pre-covid year) but I don't know how much was between larger incoming vs better retention and how those numbers play out.

[crusadermoe]

Only God knows I guess.  But he will be watching Valpo reporting out to U.S. News and some accreditors at some point in September.  Bye until then on this topic.

[wh]

Is Valpo going to graduate a class bigger than what is hoped for in the freshman class?  I just don't know when the decline started.  If it is the case, then the battle is even more uphill.

I am confused by this question. This has been happening for many years now, as the undergrad enrollment shrinks and the incoming freshman classes are fairly consistently smaller than the outgoing senior classes. This is what we have been talking about for several years here I thought...

Starting freshman class - 4-year churn = graduating senior class. '72 is saying that this year's starting freshman class is not only smaller than prior starting freshman classes, it's smaller than prior graduating classes (post churn). He's making a point about magnitude of loss.

It's like saying my current gross salary is less than my take home pay 3 years ago. You share that with a friend, who says, "Whoa! I knew you suffered through some pay cuts, but I had no idea things were this bad. How do you even survive?"

[David81]

One perspective on budget deficits, reinforced from experiences at my university. At the undergraduate level, our fall 2020 and fall 2021 classes came in very low. Definitely a COVID thing. Things started to recover in fall 2022. But as crusadermoe noted, it means four years of lower revenue. I'm guessing that many schools are dealing with budget deficits associated with these COVID classes, likely running through the 2024-25 academic year.

Another perspective, of a social nature. Fewer young men are opting for college. And it's not because they're opting for trade schools that can lead to very good livelihoods. Rather, think extended time living in the parents' basement. Educators are using phrases such as "failure to thrive" and "failure to launch." This pattern is now showing up at the graduate and professional levels. For example, in law schools (including mine), women comprise a notable majority of entering classes and assume many student leadership roles in academic honors organizations.

[wh]

There are a million jobs that don't require a college degree, many that pay very well, but by and large girls aren't willing to consider anything where they might get dirty, or hot and sweaty, or have an element of danger, or require manual dexterity, lifting, etc. They still want to act like little girls when it serves their self interest. Then you have the dads like me and now my son who fall victim to all the nonsense and spend exorbitant sums of money on college so their little princess won't have to work as a checker at Stracks. Even then, they shy away from STEM and business where the real money is, because they're hardwired to prefer people over things. You hope to God they select nursing where they can engage with people and make money doing it, but it's just as likely that they will gravitate toward teaching, or non-profit work, or the grievance industry where they can live a life full of bitterness, and jealousy, because not only do they not want to work with their hands, they don't want to work around sick people either. So, there you have it - the real reason there are way more girls in college than guys.

[Pgmado]

There are a million jobs that don't require a college degree, many that pay very well, but by and large girls aren't willing to consider anything where they might get dirty, or hot and sweaty, or have an element of danger, or require manual dexterity, lifting, etc. They still act like girls when it serves their self interest. Then you have the dads like me and now my son who fall victim to all the nonsense and spend exorbitant sums of money on college so their little princess won't have to work as a checker at Stracks. Even then, they shy away from STEM and business where the real money is, because they're hardwired to prefer people over things. You hope to God they select nursing where they can engage with people and make money doing it, but it's just as likely that they will gravitate toward teaching, or non-profit work, or the grievance industry where they can live a life full of bitterness, and jealousy, because not only do they not want to work with their hands, they don't want to work around sick people either. So, there you have it - the real reason there are way more girls in college than guys.

Wtf?

Debating sharing this with my mom, who served in the Marines and worked in the automotive industry for 20 years before transitioning to a pharmacy technician and then spending 15 years at Harley-Davidson. I'd share this with her, but she's probably out working with her hands and too busy to sit in front of a computer screen living a life full of bitterness and jealously.

[wh]

There are a million jobs that don't require a college degree, many that pay very well, but by and large girls aren't willing to consider anything where they might get dirty, or hot and sweaty, or have an element of danger, or require manual dexterity, lifting, etc. They still act like girls when it serves their self interest. Then you have the dads like me and now my son who fall victim to all the nonsense and spend exorbitant sums of money on college so their little princess won't have to work as a checker at Stracks. Even then, they shy away from STEM and business where the real money is, because they're hardwired to prefer people over things. You hope to God they select nursing where they can engage with people and make money doing it, but it's just as likely that they will gravitate toward teaching, or non-profit work, or the grievance industry where they can live a life full of bitterness, and jealousy, because not only do they not want to work with their hands, they don't want to work around sick people either. So, there you have it - the real reason there are way more girls in college than guys.

Wtf?

Debating sharing this with my mom, who served in the Marines and worked in the automotive industry for 20 years before transitioning to a pharmacy technician and then spending 15 years at Harley-Davidson. I'd share this with her, but she's probably out working with her hands and too busy to sit in front of a computer screen living a life full of bitterness and jealously.

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence, Paul.

[crusader05]

Neither is a screed put on a message board filled with distaste for women

[David81]

There are a million jobs that don't require a college degree, many that pay very well, but by and large girls aren't willing to consider anything where they might get dirty, or hot and sweaty, or have an element of danger, or require manual dexterity, lifting, etc. They still want to act like little girls when it serves their self interest. Then you have the dads like me and now my son who fall victim to all the nonsense and spend exorbitant sums of money on college so their little princess won't have to work as a checker at Stracks. Even then, they shy away from STEM and business where the real money is, because they're hardwired to prefer people over things. You hope to God they select nursing where they can engage with people and make money doing it, but it's just as likely that they will gravitate toward teaching, or non-profit work, or the grievance industry where they can live a life full of bitterness, and jealousy, because not only do they not want to work with their hands, they don't want to work around sick people either. So, there you have it - the real reason there are way more girls in college than guys.

So.....in response to a much shared observation that many young men today are "failing to launch" (thus contributing to a gender imbalance and overall enrollment declines in higher ed), you respond that the "real" reason why women outnumber men in colleges is that the women want to be pampered princesses, perhaps seeking training to enter occupations you happen to despise?

One of the best things about this board (and there are many good things) is that folks try to contribute to conversations meaningfully and to weigh honest differences of opinion. In fact, I cannot recall anyone posting something so jaw droppingly awful that I'm gobsmacked. Until now.

[VULB#62]

There are a million jobs that don't require a college degree, many that pay very well, but by and large girls aren't willing to consider anything where they might get dirty, or hot and sweaty, or have an element of danger, or require manual dexterity, lifting, etc. They still want to act like little girls when it serves their self interest. Then you have the dads like me and now my son who fall victim to all the nonsense and spend exorbitant sums of money on college so their little princess won't have to work as a checker at Stracks. Even then, they shy away from STEM and business where the real money is, because they're hardwired to prefer people over things. You hope to God they select nursing where they can engage with people and make money doing it, but it's just as likely that they will gravitate toward teaching, or non-profit work, or the grievance industry where they can live a life full of bitterness, and jealousy, because not only do they not want to work with their hands, they don't want to work around sick people either. So, there you have it - the real reason there are way more girls in college than guys.

WH, I usually respect your  basketball and business perspective.   But, man, you have crossed the line with this rant    It is so stereotypically misogynistic that it saddens me. "They don't want to work around sick people"?  HELLO, who greets you at your clinic?  Who does your workup?  Who is the surgeon, specialist, OR tech, or OP nurse that saves your freakin life after a heart attack?

In this case you are way out of line and you need to rethink what you posted, because I truly believe you didn't mean what you said.

And that is OK.

[valpopal]

There are a million jobs that don't require a college degree, many that pay very well, but by and large girls aren't willing to consider anything where they might get dirty, or hot and sweaty, or have an element of danger, or require manual dexterity, lifting, etc. They still want to act like little girls when it serves their self interest. Then you have the dads like me and now my son who fall victim to all the nonsense and spend exorbitant sums of money on college so their little princess won't have to work as a checker at Stracks. Even then, they shy away from STEM and business where the real money is, because they're hardwired to prefer people over things. You hope to God they select nursing where they can engage with people and make money doing it, but it's just as likely that they will gravitate toward teaching, or non-profit work, or the grievance industry where they can live a life full of bitterness, and jealousy, because not only do they not want to work with their hands, they don't want to work around sick people either. So, there you have it - the real reason there are way more girls in college than guys.

As I have said about a couple of your previous comments, once again for the sake of comity, I will proceed under the assumption you have been hacked.

[wh]

My comments are based in fact and supported by statistics. In response, you highlighted only 1 of many points, misrepresented what I said, and lazily dismissed my entire narrative as a "misogynistic rant."  I know you're an avowed liberal, and I respect that. What I have no regard for is anyone who rejects out-of-hand a view that supports undeniable innate biological differences between the sexes because it doesn't align with some recently invented leftist ideological view of life.

[wh]

There are a million jobs that don't require a college degree, many that pay very well, but by and large girls aren't willing to consider anything where they might get dirty, or hot and sweaty, or have an element of danger, or require manual dexterity, lifting, etc. They still want to act like little girls when it serves their self interest. Then you have the dads like me and now my son who fall victim to all the nonsense and spend exorbitant sums of money on college so their little princess won't have to work as a checker at Stracks. Even then, they shy away from STEM and business where the real money is, because they're hardwired to prefer people over things. You hope to God they select nursing where they can engage with people and make money doing it, but it's just as likely that they will gravitate toward teaching, or non-profit work, or the grievance industry where they can live a life full of bitterness, and jealousy, because not only do they not want to work with their hands, they don't want to work around sick people either. So, there you have it - the real reason there are way more girls in college than guys.

As I have said about a couple of your previous comments, once again for the sake of comity, I will proceed under the assumption you have been hacked.

Our resident voice of reason, or...
...a petulant child that hates Daddy because he had the audacity to tell you that he's going to sell your 4-wheeler that you haven't ridden in 2 years, because the family has fallen on hard times.

[DuneHwx]

You are getting lots of feedback here. Maybe take a minute to step away from your defensiveness and do some self-assessment on why your words are hitting as misogynistic. How might your perspective be different if you had a daughter and not a son? Why do you seem to harbor so much anger toward women? What else might it be about the culture of these jobs that lead women to not pursue them?

[wh]

You are getting lots of feedback here. Maybe take a minute to step away from your defensiveness and do some self-assessment on why your words are hitting as misogynistic. How might your perspective be different if you had a daughter and not a son? Why do you seem to harbor so much anger toward women? What else might it be about the culture of these jobs that lead women to not pursue them?

You sound like someone that is not entrenched in leftest mythology, so I will be happy to respectfully reply to your questions at a later time. I'm just coming off a 3-day weekend with a full day and evening ahead. So, enjoy your day, and let's hope for more good bb news.

[VU2022]

David, I think another factor is that there is no guarantee of success in college or with a college degree, so young men today are afraid to try, not realizing that the line of thinking is flawed as anything is better than doing nothing in your parents basement. It is very hard to wake up everyday and put a lot of time and effort into something knowing that there is a chance it is all for naught, which is what I think many of the young boys today believe. There needs to be a lot more effort spent in high schools on teaching young men the value of working hard and at least trying, and on the value of a college degree (just having a bachelors opens up many doors). From my experience as a male, there was a lot of emphasis on getting women into higher education (particularly stem) but less focus on the male students and their potential options, nor was there a lot of encouragement provided to said students. College is scary when you are still in high school, and a little encouragement and outwardly expressed belief in the male pupils of today would go a long way in solving this issue

WH- I agree with your points about the jobs women choose to go into, but it definitely could be expressed in a less condescending way. It is true that women, despite the efforts in getting them into STEM, strongly prefer other career paths. One is hard pressed to find a male in social work and a woman in engineering, and biological factors are 100% at play in this. Men and women are  very different and desire different things. For example, while there are female sports fans out there, there aren't any women that I know that enjoy watching and following sports, one of the favorite pasttimes for me and my friends. This of course presents interesting issues for universities of today, as the most profitable STEM industries, and thus the most profitable degrees that make college worth it, tend to be male dominated fields that most women are not interested in, yet less men are interested in college. The fields that are getting cut and may not be worth the cost to major in tend to be women-dominated, yet women are the ones who are more likely to go to college, which is a bit of a catch-22. However WH, I will say that I think your point was written with underlying contempt. I agree with most of the things you post on this board, but they can definitely be written without the closeness and hostility that hinders debate. You have expressed your concerns with how the far left is stifling debate in higher education and is expressing intense hate toward individuals who do not agree with them, which I (and most people) would agree that this is a big problem in higher education at certain schools. Thus, to quote Star Wars, I would caution you not to become the very thing that you swore to destroy

[vu72]

I did a little digging and found some interesting information concerning men and women and what they are studying at
Valpo.

These stats from 2020-2021 year:

College of
Engineering:  Men 75%  Women  25%

College of Business:  41% Men  59% Women

College of Nursing:  14% Men  86% Women

Both the College of Business and College of Engineering have chapters for women on campus:

https://www.valpo.edu/news/2022/03/17/leveling-the-field-for-women-in-business/

https://www.valpo.edu/college-of-engineering/society-of-women-engineers-swe/

[David81]

At the graduate level, women are in the low 40s %-wise in MBA programs and over 50% of law and medical students. However, I'm sure graduate engineering remains overwhelmingly male.

[David81]

David, I think another factor is that there is no guarantee of success in college or with a college degree, so young men today are afraid to try, not realizing that the line of thinking is flawed as anything is better than doing nothing in your parents basement. It is very hard to wake up everyday and put a lot of time and effort into something knowing that there is a chance it is all for naught, which is what I think many of the young boys today believe. There needs to be a lot more effort spent in high schools on teaching young men the value of working hard and at least trying, and on the value of a college degree (just having a bachelors opens up many doors). From my experience as a male, there was a lot of emphasis on getting women into higher education (particularly stem) but less focus on the male students and their potential options, nor was there a lot of encouragement provided to said students. College is scary when you are still in high school, and a little encouragement and outwardly expressed belief in the male pupils of today would go a long way in solving this issue

VU2022, then obviously the support and messaging aren't coming through. Whether it's pursuing a degree or skilled trade, entering the military, or some other post-high school option, we know pretty darn well that opting for none will lead to dead ends pretty quickly. It doesn't have to be about college, but it does have to be about something.

[usc4valpo]

My daughter is attending Rice this fall to major in chemical engineering and busted her tail off for this opportunity. I really don't like where wh is going on this other than possibly some bad meds.

[crusadermoe]

Yes, I agree with USC.  My daughters are solid in math and using it in their majors.  I have never sensed any avoidance of math and science and at least half of their close friends are in nursing, accounting, or a hard science/engineering track. 

I agree with WH 90% of the time on his realities of business comments. 

But these generalizations from WH on gender from WH are making the whole board look bad. I hope for the sake of my still single daughters that the basement dweller video gamer population of young men are not a large population.  That would hurt the odds of their class ages of finding good husbands. I would be proud to have them marry a strong tradesman with great values.