Enrollment numbers

[crusader05]

I would also say that it's not also that they're not going to college or dong anything else but that even those that are at college, are often less involved.  I've heard from friends who work at universities that getting the men to apply for jobs or join organizations is like pulling teeth and that there are taskforces looking at the issue.

There's lots and lots of theories out there and while picking your political piccadillo of choice may be satisfyingly this is a long standing issue that has been happening and is concerning. My own person theory is the advent of video games. I know women who are married who often have to pry husbands away from their gaming consoles where they will spend hours of their time rather than socializing or engaging in real life activities. The dopamine hit of a lot of video games is very similar to gambling and I worry that, for all the focus the drug war has we may have a whole other addiction out there.

[vu84v2]

Building off the highly valid points from usc4valpo and crusadermoe, my daughters are also strong in math and other quantitative work and busted their tails to complete degrees in professional disciplines. Suggesting that they, or other women like them, are not capable because of their gender has no biological foundation and is highly offensive (and is not consistent with Valpo's values).

People ask why women are underrepresented in areas like engineering or finance. I suggest two potential explanations: 1. institutional bias (note: this comes from institutional theory in which people use traits to assess whether someone is legitimate in their role) - people (both men and women) are more likely to question whether a woman in one of these disciplines is legitimate (as opposed to a man). This creates subtle (and not so subtile) inferences that "women do this and don't do that" that affect their career choices; 2. fear of being the minority - many women fear being the "only woman in the room". I have heard from numerous female C-level officers (in disciplines other than HR) that this is a major thing that women still need to overcome. To these points, consider this: women are vastly underrepresented in finance, but are far more appropriately represented in accounting. Yet, these two disciplines generally require the same foundational skills and have similar challenges in work/life balance. These two explanations (probably along with others) fit why there are dramatically lower levels of representation in finance.

Building on crusader05's point about video games (as well as, probably, social media)...I think this is a good point, but that it was amplified by restrictions associated with COVID (especially remote learning, which is a joke for the vast majority of students - especially in K-12). When someone has less opportunities to develop relationships, they obviously have less relationships  - but fewer relationships reduces the opportunities to gain perspectives and be inspired.

On another note, over the years Valpo has raised the percentage of engineering students who are women from 10 to 25 percent (I actually thought it was a bit higher than that).

[valpopal]

I did a little digging and found some interesting information concerning men and women and what they are studying at
Valpo.

These stats from 2020-2021 year:
College of Business:  41% Men  59% Women

This stat didn't seem right to me, so I checked the official enrollment figures for Valparaiso.
New undergraduate students enrolled in Business:
20-21: (Male 73.5%) (Female 26.5%)
21-22: (Male 58.4%) (Female 41.6%)
22-23: (Male 74.3%) (Female 25.7%)
The graduate numbers in Business for these three years seems fairly consistent, about 60% male and 40% female.

[crusadermoe]

I would guess Valpo22 has greats into his age peers and is being candid to his credit across all of those issues.   

What bothers me though is that the young man certainly had multiple opportunities to work in HVAC or many other construction jobs. Those certainly are not libtard or sissy jobs. I know business men who are screaming for workers in that male age group.  Peer pressure from dad and uncles is not stopping them from doing that work.  In fact they would be VERY impressed. 

So what the hell is wrong with the young guys who choose NEITHER college or wide-open jobs that don't need a degree? I will also be honest and say that my cousin in landscaping says that immigrants, legal or not, out work their American counterparts in the more manual jobs.  Again, WTF?

[vu72]

women are vastly underrepresented in finance

This may be, but if you watch Bloomberg in the morning you'll see LOADS of females in senior level finance positions including Chief Investment Officer etc.  And, for what it's worth, I'm happy to point out that my daughter, who got a degree in Physics, is now a Vice President at Fidelity.

[vu84v2]

women are vastly underrepresented in finance

This may be, but if you watch Bloomberg in the morning you'll see LOADS of females in senior level finance positions including Chief Investment Officer etc.  And, for what it's worth, I'm happy to point out that my daughter, who got a degree in Physics, is now a Vice President at Fidelity.

One of my daughters has a degree in finance...and works in finance. My point was based on enrollment...only 20-25% of our finance majors are women, and I think this ratio is similar to many other universities.

[historyman]

Men and women are  very different and desire different things. For example, while there are female sports fans out there, there aren't any women that I know that enjoy watching and following sports, one of the favorite pasttimes for me and my friends.

Wow, really, my 2 sisters, ex-wife, 2 female college friends, internet female friend from fan message board, 2 internet female friends from European soccer message board and one of my nieces are all big sport fans.

[wh]

Wow. These emotional negative reactions to my post might be worthy of a study on reading comprehension. First off, my paraphrased assertion that girls gravitate toward college majors with less lifetime earnings potential is 100% supported by statistical data from the BLS.

To the "are you saying my daughter is dumb" crowd, the aforementioned gender-based trends have nothing to do with IQ, for which there is no appreciable difference between male and female. As I clearly stated they do have everything to do with gender differences that reveal themselves at a very early age. I'm sure many here are generally aware of an abundance of "truck" vs. "doll" studies that show that little boys are more likely to gravitate toward toys with moving parts that "do things" rather than a doll or stuffed animal to hold and cuddle, and vise versa for little girls.

As to my assertion that girls pass up unlimited opportunities for good paying blue collar jobs:

From the Washington Post, 6/25/21:
"While women still dominate in some roles such as health services and education, they account for less than 30% of factory jobs and less than 9% in construction. In fact, nationwide, women are 80% less likely to work a blue-collar job compared to men."

As to my point that girls choose jobs and career paths with far less earnings potential than boys, that is absolutely factual. Attach any reason to it that fits your comfort zone; it's immaterial to the reality that a clear distinction is ever present. Oh, and for Mr. Oren the fact that your mom worked in blue collar doesn't disprove anything. It doesn't even poke a hole in anything. We're talking about statistical probability, not absolute distinction. Somehow I doubt that if I were to have said there are more tornadoes in Oklahoma than Wisconsin, you would have pounced on it with a visceral response, like "wtf, my mom lived through a tornado worse than anything ever seen in Oklahoma."  Something to ponder.

From Valpo's website, average student debt in 2019 was $37,000. Now look at Purdue's: Of the 2021 graduating class, 60% graduated from Purdue debt-free, far above the 45% national average. The average debt per Purdue student in 2021 was $3,389, down from more than $5,400 in 2021. Loan default rates were 1.7% in 2018, more than three times lower than the national four-year public university rate."

So, tell me, anyone, how it was somehow "inappropriate" to express a great deal of frustration when your daughter or your granddaughter, both of whom you love more than life itself, innately gravitate toward a relationship-centered college major at a private university that will leave them $40,000 in debt as they enter into adulthood with lower/far lower lifetime earnings power than those who chose male-dominated STEM or business career paths. Add to that living with the knowledge that they could have chosen the same major at a state school and started their adult life debt free. Misogyny? Woman hater? Complete clown responses.

[VU2022]

Wow, really, my 2 sisters, ex-wife, 2 female college friends, internet female friend from fan message board, 2 internet female friends from European soccer message board and one of my nieces are all big sport fans.

Historyman, you do not know how good you have it, I wish the women in my life would be sports fans like that. But Alas.

VU22 I fully agree with what you said. Doing a job is hard and requires effort, and some people today do not want to (nor are forced) to put the effort in to do something with their life. I think that it is the core of the issue. If it wasn't video games it would be something else instead of doing manual work (painful and exhausting) or going to school (requires work, no guarantee of success) even if one or the other are necessary to live a good life

[VULB#62]

As I read through this enthralling conversation about women, men, college, no college, blue collar, white collar, dirty work, clean work, yadda, yadda, one thing jumped out at me. I have become quite concerned (depressed would be too strong a term - right now) for the future of many of the young men in our country.  Am I overstating what I am seeing? 

[David81]

As I read through this enthralling conversation about women, men, college, no college, blue collar, white collar, dirty work, clean work, yadda, yadda, one thing jumped out at me. I have become quite concerned (depressed would be too strong a term - right now) for the future of many of the young men in our country.  Am I overstating what I am seeing? 

I don't think you're overstating it. A lot of educators at the secondary and post-secondary levels are seeing it and are concerned. Unfortunately, the conversations can get shut down when folks try to politicize the subject and play blame games. I don't think this state of affairs fits conveniently into any ideological narrative, lest important considerations be overlooked.

I'm guessing that the video game phenomenon mentioned by others is the cover for the deeper somethings underneath. It sure does play into the imagery of the young man in the basement, playing until all hours, yes?

[Pgmado]

Wow. These emotional negative reactions to my post might be worthy of a study on reading comprehension. First off, my paraphrased assertion that girls gravitate toward college majors with less lifetime earnings potential is 100% supported by statistical data from the BLS.

To the "are you saying my daughter is dumb" crowd, the aforementioned gender-based trends have nothing to do with IQ, for which there is no appreciable difference between male and female. As I clearly stated they do have everything to do with gender differences that reveal themselves at a very early age. I'm sure many here are generally aware of an abundance of "truck" vs. "doll" studies that show that little boys are more likely to gravitate toward toys with moving parts that "do things" rather than a doll or stuffed animal to hold and cuddle, and vise versa for little girls.

As to my assertion that girls pass up unlimited opportunities for good paying blue collar jobs:

From the Washington Post, 6/25/21:
"While women still dominate in some roles such as health services and education, they account for less than 30% of factory jobs and less than 9% in construction. In fact, nationwide, women are 80% less likely to work a blue-collar job compared to men."

As to my point that girls choose jobs and career paths with far less earnings potential than boys, that is absolutely factual. Attach any reason to it that fits your comfort zone; it's immaterial to the reality that a clear distinction is ever present. Oh, and for Mr. Oren the fact that your mom worked in blue collar doesn't disprove anything. It doesn't even poke a hole in anything. We're talking about statistical probability, not absolute distinction. Somehow I doubt that if I were to have said there are more tornadoes in Oklahoma than Wisconsin, you would have pounced on it with a visceral response, like "wtf, my mom lived through a tornado worse than anything ever seen in Oklahoma."  Something to ponder.

From Valpo's website, average student debt in 2019 was $37,000. Now look at Purdue's: Of the 2021 graduating class, 60% graduated from Purdue debt-free, far above the 45% national average. The average debt per Purdue student in 2021 was $3,389, down from more than $5,400 in 2021. Loan default rates were 1.7% in 2018, more than three times lower than the national four-year public university rate."

So, tell me, anyone, how it was somehow "inappropriate" to express a great deal of frustration when your daughter or your granddaughter, both of whom you love more than life itself, innately gravitate toward a relationship-centered college major at a private university that will leave them $40,000 in debt as they enter into adulthood with lower/far lower lifetime earnings power than those who chose male-dominated STEM or business career paths. Add to that living with the knowledge that they could have chosen the same major at a state school and started their adult life debt free. Misogyny? Woman hater? Complete clown responses.

I'm really not trying to get into a pissing contest here. But let me say this. I thought you were way out of line with your very general comments about women. If you want to cite stats to support your claims, fine. What set me off was your line "live a life full of bitterness and jealously." It had a tinge of, dare I say, bitterness and jealously.

Reading through this latest post that I've quoted, it really seems to me that you're implying the only accomplishment (or joy to be found) in life is through money. I know there are career paths I could've chosen that would've led me to having higher "lifetime earnings power," but that wasn't my focus in in life. I take great pride in the teaching profession and great joy in being a sportswriter. Given that these are people-centered jobs, I can't help but wonder if I'd be viewed as a failure in your household.

I've said my piece. I've always appreciated your passion for Valpo athletics and will continue to do so. I'm going to go back to waiting for recruits to call me back.

[David81]

Wow, really, my 2 sisters, ex-wife, 2 female college friends, internet female friend from fan message board, 2 internet female friends from European soccer message board and one of my nieces are all big sport fans.

Historyman, you do not know how good you have it, I wish the women in my life would be sports fans like that. But Alas.

VU22 I fully agree with what you said. Doing a job is hard and requires effort, and some people today do not want to (nor are forced) to put the effort in to do something with their life. I think that it is the core of the issue. If it wasn't video games it would be something else instead of doing manual work (painful and exhausting) or going to school (requires work, no guarantee of success) even if one or the other are necessary to live a good life

If you want to see lots of women who are informed pro sports fans, then do come here to Boston. Many of my women students can more than hold their own in virtually any conversation about the local teams.

[wh]

Wow. These emotional negative reactions to my post might be worthy of a study on reading comprehension. First off, my paraphrased assertion that girls gravitate toward college majors with less lifetime earnings potential is 100% supported by statistical data from the BLS.

To the "are you saying my daughter is dumb" crowd, the aforementioned gender-based trends have nothing to do with IQ, for which there is no appreciable difference between male and female. As I clearly stated they do have everything to do with gender differences that reveal themselves at a very early age. I'm sure many here are generally aware of an abundance of "truck" vs. "doll" studies that show that little boys are more likely to gravitate toward toys with moving parts that "do things" rather than a doll or stuffed animal to hold and cuddle, and vise versa for little girls.

As to my assertion that girls pass up unlimited opportunities for good paying blue collar jobs:

From the Washington Post, 6/25/21:
"While women still dominate in some roles such as health services and education, they account for less than 30% of factory jobs and less than 9% in construction. In fact, nationwide, women are 80% less likely to work a blue-collar job compared to men."

As to my point that girls choose jobs and career paths with far less earnings potential than boys, that is absolutely factual. Attach any reason to it that fits your comfort zone; it's immaterial to the reality that a clear distinction is ever present. Oh, and for Mr. Oren the fact that your mom worked in blue collar doesn't disprove anything. It doesn't even poke a hole in anything. We're talking about statistical probability, not absolute distinction. Somehow I doubt that if I were to have said there are more tornadoes in Oklahoma than Wisconsin, you would have pounced on it with a visceral response, like "wtf, my mom lived through a tornado worse than anything ever seen in Oklahoma."  Something to ponder.

From Valpo's website, average student debt in 2019 was $37,000. Now look at Purdue's: Of the 2021 graduating class, 60% graduated from Purdue debt-free, far above the 45% national average. The average debt per Purdue student in 2021 was $3,389, down from more than $5,400 in 2021. Loan default rates were 1.7% in 2018, more than three times lower than the national four-year public university rate."

So, tell me, anyone, how it was somehow "inappropriate" to express a great deal of frustration when your daughter or your granddaughter, both of whom you love more than life itself, innately gravitate toward a relationship-centered college major at a private university that will leave them $40,000 in debt as they enter into adulthood with lower/far lower lifetime earnings power than those who chose male-dominated STEM or business career paths. Add to that living with the knowledge that they could have chosen the same major at a state school and started their adult life debt free. Misogyny? Woman hater? Complete clown responses.

I'm really not trying to get into a pissing contest here. But let me say this. I thought you were way out of line with your very general comments about women. If you want to cite stats to support your claims, fine. What set me off was your line "live a life full of bitterness and jealously." It had a tinge of, dare I say, bitterness and jealously.

Reading through this latest post that I've quoted, it really seems to me that you're implying the only accomplishment (or joy to be found) in life is through money. I know there are career paths I could've chosen that would've led me to having higher "lifetime earnings power," but that wasn't my focus in in life. I take great pride in the teaching profession and great joy in being a sportswriter. Given that these are people-centered jobs, I can't help but wonder if I'd be viewed as a failure in your household.

I've said my piece. I've always appreciated your passion for Valpo athletics and will continue to do so. I'm going to go back to waiting for recruits to call me back.

My message was crystal clear. The fact that you misinterpreted it as having ill intent is on you. Even after I clarified with a more detailed follow-up post, you responded with a cheap shot accusing me of ranking human value by earnings potential.

It's obvious that you're highly sensitive about the money thing, so let's talk about that. When my youngest daughter was in her junior year of college, she told me she wanted to switch her major to education. She said she always had a passion to be an English teacher and was afraid she might have regrets down the road that she didn't pursue her real passion in life. I told her I was all for it, with one caveat - that she understands and is willing to accept that she will be earning far less as a teacher than the career track she was on. She essentially mirrored your comments above about money and journalism. She understood, she accepted it, she wasn't motivated by money, happiness comes from doing what you love not from what you make, etc., etc.

Well, Paul, it wasn't 6 months into her first year teaching that she started complaining about how underpaid and under appreciated teachers are, given all the responsibility, frustration with  unsupportive parents, pressure to meet state learning standards, and other legitimate issues. It wasn't long until she began to adopt her union's negative push/pull, us vs. them attitude toward their school administration. Somewhere along the way  "passion" took a back seat to practicality, and eventually it was replaced entirely by the influence of a toxic work environment full of frustrated (may I say in some cases embittered) coworkers. Thus was her life until a decade later when she had finally had her fill and made a complete career change to nursing. She has reconnected with her God-given passion to serve others and gets paid a wage more commensurate with the value she provides than teaching did.

So, Paul, is the way to happiness through a fat paycheck? Of course not. But, the way to unhappiness can be a thin paycheck, IF you legitimately feel taken advantage of, or worse yet abused. Clearly, teachers are underpaid relative to the value they add to human development. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. It's a lot to ask any person in the trade to accept, even though they know it going in. Money is important, and becomes even more so when you get married and have children. Bills mount up, needs are greater, taking vacations to refresh and rejuvenate, medical issues, home repairs, the car breaks down, birthdays and Christmas, school books, school clothes, piano lessons, sports participation, and endless etc. Financial stress can be overwhelming and kill all the joy in your life. That's when the rubber meets the road about feeling financially cheated. It's difficult to ignore when you think your child needs to go to the emergency room and you don't have money for the co-pay. That, my friend, is what I don't want for my children, or yours, or anyone's.

I'll leave that with you to interpret, or misinterpret as the case may be.

[valpo64]

I thought this thread was "Enrollment Numbers" as it relates to VU.  All I am reading is about women sports fans.  Are we getting a little off track here?

[valpopal]

Hoping it was just a one-time lapse by you, I tried to ignore the seemingly subconscious bitterness and your snide attitude toward women, wh, when they were initially apparent about a month ago by your use of the following unsavory example in a comment toward me that you somehow and inexplicably thought favorably helped your position. Unfortunately, your recent posts addressed to Paul and others seem to indicate otherwise, and they point out a need for some thoughtful self-reflection on your part.

Quote from: wh on April 18, 2023, 06:10:16 PMYour wife could have sex with 3 guys at the same time while you're at work, and if you get mad and call her the "c" word, she immediately becomes the victim.

[vu72]

And now, back to enrollment numbers!

News reports say Valpo is graduating 575 undergrad and 183 graduates degree students, for a total of 758 spots to fill to keep pace.

[wh]

Hoping it was just a one-time lapse by you, I tried to ignore the seemingly subconscious bitterness and your snide attitude toward women, wh, when they were initially apparent about a month ago by your use of the following unsavory example in a comment toward me that you somehow and inexplicably thought favorably helped your position. Unfortunately, your recent posts addressed to Paul and others seem to indicate otherwise, and they point out a need for some thoughtful self-reflection on your part.

Quote from: wh on April 18, 2023, 06:10:16 PMYour wife could have sex with 3 guys at the same time while you're at work, and if you get mad and call her the "c" word, she immediately becomes the victim.

You are an interesting study in psychology. A mister nice guy public persona and a schemer behind closed doors. My best to you and your esteemed colleagues as you continue to concoct your brew of self-preservation over university best interest. I'm sure our President and Board are as proud of your work as I am.

[vu84v2]

And now, back to enrollment numbers!

News reports say Valpo is graduating 575 undergrad and 183 graduates degree students, for a total of 758 spots to fill to keep pace.

Looking back to posts a year ago, I think the undergrad deposits at this time last year were around 620. Factoring in late additions, melt, and net transfers, I would think 575 will be achieved - but likely not much higher than that. Admittedly, I do not have data and am just "reading the tea leaves".

[vu84v2]

I did a little digging and found some interesting information concerning men and women and what they are studying at
Valpo.

These stats from 2020-2021 year:

College of
Engineering:  Men 75%  Women  25%

Newsletter went out from the College of Engineering this week that said 28.2% of Valpo's current engineering students are women. Additionally, 12.3% of all Valpo engineering students are from underrepresented minority groups.

[crusadermoe]

Yes the tea leaves will have to do for now.   I am actually just filibustering some more dialog into this thread so we leave the societal stuff behind.  But Valpo22 impressed me with his candor.

And back to how to right sizing the school after enrollment weighs in. I think we need to keep a dead eye on Bradley and Drake as midwest and size peers. Are they facing the same issues of male demographcs? Yes.  ....The same issue of spreading a small university too thin? Yes.  The issues of student debt and discounting tuition? Yes.

if we are comparing well then our management and board are wise. If not, we need to keep changing until we match or surpass them.

[crusadermoe]

Oops. Bradley is much larger in enrollment across all categories it seems.  It does not seem that this was always the case, but my aging memory may be failing me.

Bradley enrolls nearly 6,000 students (approximately 4,600 undergrads, 380 graduate students on campus, and 900 graduate students online) and employs approximately 900 people. The university has an annual operating budget of $161 million and an endowment of $350 million. This individual will join Bradley as the university advances a refreshed vision and its new strategic plan, which were adopted in July 2021 under the leadership of President Stephen Standifird

[historyman]

President Stephen Standifird

I used to rent an apartment in Peoria from a guy named Standiford. That's got to count for something. :-)

[crusadermoe]

Drake - Undergraduates      2,902
Graduate                           1,973

Total Enrollment                 4,875

[historyman]

Drake - Undergraduates      2,902
Graduate                           1,973

Total Enrollment                 4,875

NW Indiana residents enrolled 902.