the Vietnam War by Ken Burns on PBS

[usc4valpo]

I watched the first episode of this documentary and it was outstanding. The complex situation of Vietnam leading up to the war was very interesting and a part of history I was naive about. Did any of you watch this and have comments?

[vu72]

I watched the first episode of this documentary and it was outstanding. The complex situation of Vietnam leading up to the war was very interesting and a part of history I was naive about. Did any of you watch this and have comments?

I did watch it as I lived through it.  But for a medical issue I would have been sent to fight.  Certainly a complex situation as the fear of the domino effect was broadly in place.  Typically outstanding work by Burns.

[bbtds]

I watched the first episode of this documentary and it was outstanding. The complex situation of Vietnam leading up to the war was very interesting and a part of history I was naive about. Did any of you watch this and have comments?

I did watch it as I lived through it.  But for a medical issue I would have been sent to fight.  Certainly a complex situation as the fear of the domino effect was broadly in place.  Typically outstanding work by Burns.

My understanding was that college students were exempted from the draft. I seem to remember relatives of mine trying to stay in school or serving in places far from Vietnam. The better scores you received on examinations in the military the more choice you had on where you would serve. Is this just a terribly wrong, fogged memory of a 7 to 10 year old kid or closer to the truth. I do remember delivering a newspaper to a neighbor of mine and asking him what it was like in Vietnam as he had just returned. His mother looked at me and gave me the finger to the lips and a "shhhhhhh." That is when I really understood how truly complicated the whole Vietnam situation was.

[vu72]

I watched the first episode of this documentary and it was outstanding. The complex situation of Vietnam leading up to the war was very interesting and a part of history I was naive about. Did any of you watch this and have comments?

I did watch it as I lived through it.  But for a medical issue I would have been sent to fight.  Certainly a complex situation as the fear of the domino effect was broadly in place.  Typically outstanding work by Burns.

My understanding was that college students were exempted from the draft. I seem to remember relatives of mine trying to stay in school or serving in places far from Vietnam. The better scores you received on examinations in the military the more choice you had on where you would serve. Is this just a terribly wrong, fogged memory of a 7 to 10 year old kid or closer to the truth. I do remember delivering a newspaper to a neighbor of mine and asking him what it was like in Vietnam as he had just returned. His mother looked at me and gave me the finger to the lips and a "shhhhhhh." That is when I really understood how truly complicated the whole Vietnam situation was.

They were exempt for a while. Then came December 1, 1969.  There were 366 balls put in a fish bowl and the numbers were draw.  The first 195 dates drawn went to Nam that year.  The first number?  September 14.  There were a lot of drunken guys on Campus that night.

[justducky]

Certainly a complex situation as the fear of the domino effect was broadly in place.  Typically outstanding work by Burns.

His choice of wording is masterful.

There were 366 balls put in a fish bowl and the numbers were draw.  The first 195 dates drawn went to Nam that year.

I woke up as a free (350) man. There is asolutely no way my path of life could have repeated had I been in that top 195. Zero chance. 

I have made a million sound decisions since (and a few boners) but sometimes it all boils down to the luck of the draw.

[valpopal]

I watched the first episode of this documentary and it was outstanding. The complex situation of Vietnam leading up to the war was very interesting and a part of history I was naive about. Did any of you watch this and have comments?

I did watch it as I lived through it.  But for a medical issue I would have been sent to fight.  Certainly a complex situation as the fear of the domino effect was broadly in place.  Typically outstanding work by Burns.

My understanding was that college students were exempted from the draft. I seem to remember relatives of mine trying to stay in school or serving in places far from Vietnam. The better scores you received on examinations in the military the more choice you had on where you would serve. Is this just a terribly wrong, fogged memory of a 7 to 10 year old kid or closer to the truth. I do remember delivering a newspaper to a neighbor of mine and asking him what it was like in Vietnam as he had just returned. His mother looked at me and gave me the finger to the lips and a "shhhhhhh." That is when I really understood how truly complicated the whole Vietnam situation was.

They were exempt for a while. Then came December 1, 1969.  There were 366 balls put in a fish bowl and the numbers were draw.  The first 195 dates drawn went to Nam that year.  The first number?  September 14.  There were a lot of drunken guys on Campus that night.

Students were still exempt as long as they held full-time status. I know because I was one of them. My number (# 007) was called but I was a full-time student (a freshman) and remained exempt.

[VULB#62]

Students were still exempt as long as they held full-time status. I know because I was one of them. My number (# 007) was called but I was a full-time student (a freshman) and remained exempt.

But how could that have been 007?  You already were licensed.

[bbtds]

Students were still exempt as long as they held full-time status. I know because I was one of them. My number (# 007) was called but I was a full-time student (a freshman) and remained exempt.

But how could that have been 007?  You already were licensed.

Yes, but since pal was in college he was never actually "bonded."

Also thank you for the collaboration that I actually didn't dream it up that men were desperately trying to stay in school. My relatives who taught at Valpo and other schools carried a heavy burden when contemplating whether to flunk out a student or not. Believe me that I know they suffered through it but felt their integrity was also vitally important.

[VU75]

If you were a kid 19,19 20 years old looking for a job the first question asked in a job interview was about your draft status.  The lottery brought a lot more certainty. A high number was great but  it also helped kids with low numbers who now  had the option to enlist before getting a draft notice and choosing a MOS that would keep them out of combat.

I was planning on joining the National Guard to pay for tuition.  Of course because of  the promise that the Guard would not be sent to Vietnam, one had to have connections to get in and as the song goes " I ain't no Senators son".  So I ended up volunteering for the draft so I could serve two years instead of enlisting for three.

[vu72]

wasn't there a tradeoff for taking the student deferment?  Something like being subject to the draft for five years instead of one?  Can't quite recall the details.

[valpopal]

wasn't there a tradeoff for taking the student deferment?  Something like being subject to the draft for five years instead of one?  Can't quite recall the details.

The first draft lottery took place when I was a freshman in December of 1969 for conscription in 1970. Full-time undergraduate students were classified as II-S and exempt from conscription. A student with an education deferment was subject to the draft if he lost his full-time status or graduated (a senior could continue as a full-time student by double-majoring, continuing to take a full load of classes, and not filing for graduation). However, the last conscriptions happened in December of 1972, only three years after the start of the lottery, since the military shifted to an all-volunteer force beginning in 1973. Therefore, by the time I graduated (1969-1973), the possibility of being drafted had passed.

[LandonRi]

That's interesting Valpopal. How did you feel at the time about potentially having to go?

[VULB#62]

I can't answer for Pal, but I can convey my emotions. I graduated in 66. I had a student deferment in 67 for graduate work. Starting in 68 and for three more years I was an instructor at Concordia College in NY and had a deferment for that. Throughout that period I was increasingly opposed to our involvement in Nam and began to actively express my dissent. Then the lottery came. I had a low number, it came up, and I reported for the physical with mixed emotions. I was prepared for the worst - drafted. But it was not be as a football injury at Valpo (broken neck) disqualified me.

How did I feel?  There was my immediate reaction: relief. Then followed my delayed reaction: guilt.  Despite my total opposition to the war and what our government was doing, I so identified with the young men who were conscripted and went. It was such a waste of life on both sides (as is all war) but my regret was not being there with my brothers. It was not at the time, nor is it now, regret for not representing my country, because to this day I believe my country was wrong. I also was appalled at the reception our returning troops received during that time. They were not the villans; the people at the top who played fast and loose with these young men were the true villains — and they never suffered the insults and villification that these young men, who were only doing their duty, were forced to endure.

I still devour books on Viet Nam.  The best IMO is "They Were Soldiers Once and Young" about the incredible battle in the Na Drang Valley. You have to read it to understand the true impact of a battle.

OTOH, just like WWII,  I am in total support of our troops in Iraq and Afganistan and our government's decision to be there  (though I haven't always agreed with how and what they are doing there). We were attacked and we should be there.

[VU75]

For me growing up with the draft, it was always in the back of my mind. I wouldn't say I felt like it was my destiny but the war was there all through High School. I had teachers and coaches and elders at church who were veterans, so the notion that I would have to pick up a rifle at some point seemed almost natural. So when the time came to decide on getting a job or finding money for college the GI bill seemed to be a logical choice.   

In a way I have always believed that Lyndon Johnson committed to the war out of the same sense of obligation I experienced.  Truman fought the Korean War, Eisenhower argued for the concept of the Domino theory, and Kennedy stared down the USSR over the Cuban Missile Crisis, now it was his turn to stand up to a Communist threat and he felt a moral duty to act. 

[valpopal]

I can't answer for Pal, but I can convey my emotions. I graduated in 66. I had a student deferment in 67 for graduate work. Starting in 68 and for three more years I was an instructor at Concordia College in NY and had a deferment for that. Throughout that period I was increasingly opposed to our involvement in Nam and began to actively express my dissent. Then the lottery came. I had a low number, it came up, and I reported for the physical with mixed emotions. I was prepared for the worst - drafted. But it was not be as a football injury at Valpo (broken neck) disqualified me.

How did I feel?  There was my immediate reaction: relief. Then followed my delayed reaction: guilt.  Despite my total opposition to the war and what our government was doing, I so identified with the young men who were conscripted and went. It was such a waste of life on both sides (as is all war) but my regret was not being there with my brothers. It was not at the time, nor is it now, regret for not representing my country, because to this day I believe my country was wrong. I also was appalled at the reception our returning troops received during that time. They were not the villans; the people at the top who played fast and loose with these young men were the true villains — and they never suffered the insults and villification that these young men, who were only doing their duty, were forced to endure.

I still devour books on Viet Nam.  The best IMO is "They Were Soldiers Once and Young" about the incredible battle in the Na Drang Valley. You have to read it to understand the true impact of a battle.

OTOH, just like WWII,  I am in total support of our troops in Iraq and Afganistan and our government's decision to be there  (though I haven't always agreed with how and what they are doing there). We were attacked and we should be there.

Although my years of deferment were a bit later (1969+), I can say that '62 has eloquently summarized my feelings at the time as well.