Potential Realignment: The Big East is exploring expansion to 11 Teams

[VU2014]

Jon Rothstein reported the Big East could expand to 20 conference games, but only if it adds 11th team.

"The Big East could be expanding to a 20-game conference schedule sometime in the near future. However, such a change is only likely if the heralded conference if able to add an 11th team into the fold, a source has informed FanRag Sports."

"The double round-robin format is ideal," one source told FanRag Sports. "That needs to be kept in place."

"FanRag Sports also reported last winter that the Big East and the UConn Huskies had initial talks regarding a potential partnership, but needed to find a solution and a new home for the Huskies' football program."
https://www.fanragsports.com/rothstein-big-east-could-play-20-conference-games-if-it-adds-11th-team/

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/920295338111578113

If the Big East expands it could potentially have more realignment ramifications. I absolutely love that we are in the Missouri Valley Conference but a "Utopia" I'd love to see Valpo in the Big East. But I'm realistic and know that its not happening. Even if Valpo went on a Butler 2010-2011 type run we'd never get an invite because Butler would block us from getting a invite.

I think the 2 obvious contenders for an invite are Dayton & SLU, because both are from the Midwest, Catholic, Private Universities & have basketball tradition. Of the two I'd think Dayton has the edge because of recent basketball success and a new arena is on the way.

Contenders:
-UCONN (I don't see it happening because UCONN won't give up on FBS Football)
-Dayton (Rumor is Xavier would try and block Dayton from getting a invite)
-SLU
-VCU (less likely because they are a public university but they have the arena, $ to make that leap, & recent basketball success)
-Cincinnati (Public University & I don't see them giving up on FBS Football)

If Dayton was selected, I wonder if SLU would consider coming back to the MVC. SLU would lose its closest conference rival, the A10 would be weakened and maybe the high travel expenses aren't worth it to SLU anymore. The MVC is still considering expanding to 12 and SLU is a natural fit. Apparently SLU's administration/fans think they're "above" the MVC. It would be a fit for all parties involved.

[crusadermoe]

I would not dismiss the possibility that SLU comes to its senses eventually. They are living in the past. SLU was on the rise, but then a renegade group of whiny faculty managed to oust its very successful president, Father Larry Biondi.  Revenue and donations tanked.

Just wait them out.  Like the old country song says, SLU says, "Call me Cleopatra, Queen of Denial."  I think Reba sang it.  Maybe not.

[VULB#62]

Swami says: Valpo spends one year in the MVC and then segues to the Big East. Ha, Ha. Just channeling my desire to be Butler's nemisis.

[IrishDawg]

SLU only gets in if they clean up their issues for an extended period both on and off the court.  With the sexual assault allegations surrounding their team right now, I don't even know if the MVC would want to deal with them.  No way Dayton gets in because of Xavier (That's not just a rumor), even though they're probably the best fit from both a basketball and academic standpoint.  As VU2014 stated, no go on UConn or Cincy because of football.  VCU won't get in because of Georgetown.  The only other school not on the list that would totally make the jump if it weren't for their location is Gonzaga.

[VULB#62]

Swami says: Valpo spends one year in the MVC and then segues to the Big East. Ha, Ha. Just channeling my desire to be Butler's nemisis.

BUT WAIT!

What if Valpo says WTF and goes 180 and decides to throw megabucks to athletics to go national.  VU is private and MBB is and always has been #1.  We are clean. We are located in the center of the vibrant NW Indiana megaplex.   Oops. Never mind.

[EddieCabot]

If the Big East expands it could potentially have more realignment ramifications. I absolutely love that we are in the Missouri Valley Conference but a "Utopia" I'd love to see Valpo in the Big East. But I'm realistic and know that its not happening. Even if Valpo went on a Butler 2010-2011 type run we'd never get an invite because Butler would block us from getting a invite.

I think the biggest issue is whether nine Catholic/Jesuit schools would give an invite to a Lutheran University.  I realize nearly 500 years have passed, but trust me, Catholics can hold a grudge.

[VU2014]

Ironically there are more students that identify as Catholic then Lutheran (the largest area Valpo pulls students from is Chicagoland I believe, which has a large Catholic population).
23% Lutheran
28% Roman Catholic
34% other Christian faiths
15% other faiths

[vu72]

What about Davidson?  Private, good location and very high academics as well as good basketball. Maybe St. Bonaventure to pick another Catholic school.

[valpopal]

I think there is something more important, more immediate, and more sinister than expansion in this news and other news stories that report Big Ten coaches have voted to expand their conference schedule to 20 games and the ACC is moving to 20 conference games. When the Big East, Big Ten, and ACC move to larger conference schedules, the result will be to decrease opportunities for non Power 5 conferences, especially mid-major teams, to enhance their strength of schedule or incomes with games against upper tier teams. The (un)intended consequence is to add more at-large invitations from the Power 5 conferences and shut out at-large bids to non Power 5 conferences.


"Moving to 20 league games is going to change the entire model," one Big Ten athletic director told FanRag Sports last week. "They want to wipe out the non-Power 5 schools from getting at-large bids completely. Moving to 20 games makes that more of a realistic possibility."



https://www.fanragsports.com/rothstein-big-ten-head-coaches-vote-in-favor-of-schedule-change-2/


https://www.fanragsports.com/trickle-down-impact-20-game-power-5-league-schedules/

[VU2014]

ValpoPal, I'm glad you brought that up. Definitely is very serious & has a major impact on ALL Mid-Majors & is proof the P5 Conferences are trying to squeeze Mid-Majors out of the At-Large bids from the Tourney.

This whole topic deserves its own thread because thats how important the topic is, imo.

[vu84v2]

The top priorities for being a Big East member: large city, NBA type arena with strong potential to draw more than 8,000 per game (with key games over 12,000), private, strong academics. They want every member to be considered by Fox Sports, etc. as having a large potential viewing market. Being catholic is a factor, but the Big East has Jesuit and non-Jesuit schools, which are not as aligned as one might think. Valpo would be immediately dismissed due to its location.

Other potential Big East members:
Davidson: same issues as Valpo.
Dayton: not Jesuit, but probably not a huge issue. Proximity to Xavier is an issue, but a bigger issue is that Dayton is not that large of a market. However, they do have a great program, great facilities and excellent fan support.
Saint Louis: They meet all of the requirements, but they have a very inconsistent program.
Duquesne: They would be a strong candidate if they had stronger and more consistent athletic programs.
Drake: Not strong enough programs, plus location is not that desirable.
Detroit-Mercy: Similar to Duquesne, but academics might also be an issue.

Bottom line: the Big East is not desperate and thus is only going to take someone that adds value to the conference. Saint Louis would need a run of good years. Dayton would seem to be the only candidate that would be seriously considered right now (not sure how much pull Xavier would have to prevent that).

[vu84v2]

ValpoPal, I'm glad you brought that up. Definitely is very serious & has a major impact on ALL Mid-Majors & is proof the P5 Conferences are trying to squeeze Mid-Majors out of the At-Large bids from the Tourney.

This whole topic deserves its own thread because thats how important the topic is, imo.

If we assume that there is a competition for at-large tourney spots between the Power 5 + 1 conferences and the other conferences, the other conferences need a concerted strategy. Here is my suggestion:

Take the top two teams from the previous year from the MVC, A10, Mountain West, WCAC, American and Conference USA (and maybe also the MAAC and MAC). Plan scheduling to include a tournament (on home courts) spaced throughout November and December. This drives up strength of schedule (assuming these games replace games with lower teams). Do the same thing with the third and fourth place teams in those conferences, fifth and sixth, etc. This increases the strength of schedule for top teams in those conferences, solves the scheduling nightmares many teams have, and still allows plenty of room to schedule Power 5 + 1 teams.

[bigmosmithfan1]

I'll be honest - this is speculation that I don't think we'll see movement on. The Big East has a very successful model right now. The only way you mess with that is to bring in a team that brings enough revenue along with it that it is worth dividing the pie by an extra share. Unlike the Big Ten, where the the increase in subscribers to BTN in NYC/D.C. more than offset the costs of bringing on Maryland/Rutgers, the BE needs to add a team that would increase their Fox Sports deal. UConn is the only team that could move the needle in a material way on that.

But UConn would have no home for their football team - the AAC won't let them stay as football-only, no P5 conference wants their football team, and the MAC, your previous home for wayward East Coast football teams (UMass, Temple, UCF) has said they are no longer entertaining football-only members who won't join in other sports. That's why UMass had to leave the MAC two years ago -- they were given five years as football-only to either go all-in as a full MAC member or find another home. The Minutemen are now independent and struggling mightily as a result.

[VUGrad1314]

It's an extreme proposition but perhaps Conference USA acts as UCONN's savior here. They would most likely take UCONN as a football only member with UMASS as a possible companion addition. It would suck for UCONN to have to endure the travel in football but the net gains in basketball and other sports would have to be worth it. The pitfall there would be that the AAC would be very likely to end up backfilling with some other CUSA team. Perhaps the Sun Belt  could be another option as well. They may also decide to simply go independent because the gains and benefits of being in the Big East are worth so much. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the idea of UCONN working a Notre Dame/ACC style deal with the Big 12 which is hurting for members. The deal being that in exchange for the conference granting UCONN a home UCONN agrees to play so many Big 12 teams out of conference in both men's and women's basketball. This not only would benefit UCONN's program but also provide considerable benefit to the Big 12. The football brand may not be worth much but the basketball brand sure is. Before you dismiss this last option, consider that the Big 12 is a conference that allows Kansas Baylor Texas Tech and Iowa State to (with the exception of the occasional abberation of one year or a few years in the case of Baylor) consistently field mediocre to downright terrible football teams. If they're looking for a companion addition BYU might consider such an arrangement as well but without the basketball quid pro quo after seeing how awful life as an independent is for everyone but Notre Dame BYU's other sports would stay in the WCC

[crusaderjoe]

If the Big East expands it could potentially have more realignment ramifications. I absolutely love that we are in the Missouri Valley Conference but a "Utopia" I'd love to see Valpo in the Big East. But I'm realistic and know that its not happening. Even if Valpo went on a Butler 2010-2011 type run we'd never get an invite because Butler would block us from getting a invite.

I think the biggest issue is whether nine Catholic/Jesuit schools would give an invite to a Lutheran University.  I realize nearly 500 years have passed, but trust me, Catholics can hold a grudge.

And therein lies the rub in this analysis with respect to UCONN, IMO, a la Boston College. 

In 2003, when the ACC courted Miami and BC, UCONN, along with several other BIG EAST schools at the time, sued Miami, BC and the ACC.  The fan word around south Florida at the time was that UCONN was seen as the ringleader, or instigator, of the lawsuit.  Now while the ACC has probably forgiven UCONN for suing them (see Pitt who was involved in that suit but is now an ACC member), and while Miami probably doesn't care one way or another either about UCONN getting into the ACC now that Shalala is gone, BC is a different matter.  They probably have more to lose than anyone in the ACC by allowing UCONN in.  And reports in 2011 indicated that UCONN was blocked by BC then, in part because of the lawsuit.  Why should that change now?

UCONN is in a tough position.  IMO, It's B1G/ACC or bust as they desperately want a seat at the P5 table.  While a BIG EAST move does makes some sense for them, it's not a move that makes P5 sense or P5 money.  Nor does it make sense to play football as an independent unless your school is named Notre Dame. I think they will wait it out and hope to get into the B1G after the next line of realignment; and honestly I think they would make a fine addition, not withstanding their lack of AAU status (see Nebraska) that the B1G seems to prioritize. Who knows what will happen though.

[bbtds]

If Dayton was selected, I wonder if SLU would consider coming back to the MVC. SLU would lose its closest conference rival, the A10 would be weakened and maybe the high travel expenses aren't worth it to SLU anymore. The MVC is still considering expanding to 12 and SLU is a natural fit. Apparently SLU's administration/fans think they're "above" the MVC. It would be a fit for all parties involved.

They have their sights set a lot higher.

From Billikens.com:

http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?/topic/27496-big-east/&page=1

Posted February 16
Gross. Staying in the A10 would be awful.

Every member of the Bills Athletic Department, their coaches, and admin should aspire to the Big East, more money for the school. Any other logic is out of control silly.

Even if the "ship has sail" we should be ready when it comes back to port, if it ever does. It is a DOMINANT basketball conference of non-football playing institutions. Why in Godalmightys name would we not want to be in it?
========================================================================================================
Posted February 16
Yawn. If we're going to be as good as we think I would love the chance to battle BE squads during conference play. Chaifetz would be lit
========================================================================================================
Posted February 16
Having no inside knowledge on what the powers that be think about being in the BE, you have to assume they'll want to pull out all the stops if the opportunity arises. While I wouldn't call the hiring of Ford a splash hire ala Majerus, we could easily have taken a cheaper route. One has to think the Admin + deep pocket donors were saying we've got to show the BE we want to be a BB power like we were under Rick. I'm hoping that for the immediate future, say 3 years, the BE is shelving the idea of expansion.

That said if a power house like UConn says they want in, the BE is going to have to add an additional member. Face it, as of today they're not going to look to favorably on SLU. They probably consider us to be a DePaul, some history but can't sustain it. Whereas, other A10 schools, most notably Dayton and VCU, are solid year in and year out. The only way we'd get in over Dayton would be if X blocks them, or Fox Sports demands it. If UConn does enter,  that would likely rule out VCU since it's another East Coast school, and they need to fill in the Mid West for cost purposes.

There isn't one of us on here who wouldn't give their eye teeth to be invited into the BE, especially if DU leaves the A10. DU is the A10's signature program and their leaving would definitely dilute the conference's appeal unless the A10 got Wichita St to replace them. Therefore, I'm hoping the BE is not considering an expansion at this time. Hopefully, we get some time to right the ship and get back into the national hoops picture.
=========================================================================================================
Posted February 16
We ought to just move to the Valley. Natural geographic rivalries, easier travel. It's where we've always belonged.
=========================================================================================================
Posted February 16
We are way past the Valley.

[bigmosmithfan1]

We are way past the Valley.

LOL. St. Louis is barely past Chicago State, whom they only scored 45 points against last year and beat by two. They got waxed in their only game against the Valley (15-point loss to SIU) and lost by double digits at home to teams from the MAC and Big South.

Reality check, Bilikens.

[VULB#62]

We are way past the Valley.

LOL. St. Louis is barely past Chicago State, whom they only scored 45 points against last year and beat by two. They got waxed in their only game against the Valley (15-point loss to SIU) and lost by double digits at home to teams from the MAC and Big South.

Reality check, Bilikens.

They just don't get it. They think because they are a Catholic institution they deserve a slot in the BE. First, it is called the Big EAST. Midwest schools have to be extraordinary (except for DePaul, but DePaul is in CHICAGO) to be included. Second, their basketball heritage is much more aligned with something like the MVC, but they just can't see it.

[oklahomamick]

This is what happens and is the best case scenario for the Crusaders.

Uconn goes to BE

Wichita St. finds itself having the same issues in American as they did in the MVC.  However, travel costs are up for all sports and Houston keeps winning the American conference tourney.  Wichita St. barely missing the at-large bid over and over again. Wichita St. returns to MVC

St. Louis finally closes the door on the A10 and joins in the MVC. 

The results = MVC adds Wichita St. and St. Louis.

Take it to the bank.     Then I woke up.

[vu72]

This is what happens and is the best case scenario for the Crusaders.

Uconn goes to BE

Wichita St. finds itself having the same issues in American as they did in the MVC.  However, travel costs are up for all sports and Houston keeps winning the American conference tourney. Wichita St. barely missing the at-large bid over and over again. Wichita St. returns to MVC

St. Louis finally closes the door on the A10 and joins in the MVC. 

The results = MVC adds Wichita St. and St. Louis.

Take it to the bank.     Then I woke up.

And then there are those pesky Cincinnati, Memphis, SMU and UCF teams.  Wichita, you're not in Kansas anymore!   

[VULB#62]

This is what happens and is the best case scenario for the Crusaders.

Uconn goes to BE

Wichita St. finds itself having the same issues in American as they did in the MVC.  However, travel costs are up for all sports and Houston keeps winning the American conference tourney. Wichita St. barely missing the at-large bid over and over again. Wichita St. returns to MVC

St. Louis finally closes the door on the A10 and joins in the MVC. 

The results = MVC adds Wichita St. and St. Louis.

Take it to the bank.     Then I woke up.

And then there are those pesky Cincinnati, Memphis, SMU and UCF teams.  Wichita, you're not in Kansas anymore!   

When all is said and done over the next few of years, I wonder how long it will take Valpo and Wichita Sate to each rise to the comparable level of excellence they achieved in their previous leagues?  Obviously, this is not a race, and I have no clue at this time, but which school gets back there first? Viewing this from the dark side, it could even be neither.

[EddieCabot]

This is what happens and is the best case scenario for the Crusaders.

Uconn goes to BE

Wichita St. finds itself having the same issues in American as they did in the MVC.  However, travel costs are up for all sports and Houston keeps winning the American conference tourney. Wichita St. barely missing the at-large bid over and over again. Wichita St. returns to MVC

St. Louis finally closes the door on the A10 and joins in the MVC. 

The results = MVC adds Wichita St. and St. Louis.

Take it to the bank.     Then I woke up.

And then there are those pesky Cincinnati, Memphis, SMU and UCF teams.  Wichita, you're not in Kansas anymore!   

When all is said and done over the next few of years, I wonder how long it will take Valpo and Wichita Sate to each rise to the comparable level of excellence they achieved in their previous leagues?  Obviously, this is not a race, and I have no clue at this time, but which school gets back there first? Viewing this from the dark side, it could even be neither.

Given that WSU has a consensus top 5-10 team and is the pre-season favorite in the AAC (along with Cincinnati), I think WSU is probably already there.

[Valpower]

Given that WSU has a consensus top 5-10 team and is the pre-season favorite in the AAC (along with Cincinnati), I think WSU is probably already there.

Can they forego playing, you know, so they don't hurt themselves or anything?

[bbtds]

Given that WSU has a consensus top 5-10 team and is the pre-season favorite in the AAC (along with Cincinnati), I think WSU is probably already there.

Can they forego playing, you know, so they don't hurt themselves or anything?

Yes, why should teams like Wichita State play any games against tougher competition when the pundits have virtually already handed them the #1 AAC spot before they even prove themselves against Cincinnati, Memphis, Houston, SMU, UCF, etc. Yes, Gregg Marshall, I believe, is correct about visiting cities such as Cincinnati, Houston, Dallas, Orlando is much more exciting than visiting cities such as Peoria, Carbondale, Normal, Springfield(MO), Cedar Falls, etc. but if he starts losing games in those bigger American conference cities then those trips out of those bigger cities will be much more unpleasant than the trips out of the smaller MVC cities after winning. No matter which city you are leaving the trips are much more pleasant after winning.