MVC Hoops: 2017-18

[agibson]

Maybe I missed the discussion, but, is it really just Loyola and Drake in the post-season?

This must be by choice, rather than by a lack of invitations/possibilities?

I've been out of touch for a week or so. But, last I heard, Valpo was still thinking about the CBI - going to have conversations with players, etc. Did we ever hear anymore about that?

[crusader05]

I thought Paul or someone tweeted out that Lottich said it was a No to any post season at this point.

[VU2014]

Maybe I missed the discussion, but, is it really just Loyola and Drake in the post-season?

This must be by choice, rather than by a lack of invitations/possibilities?

I've been out of touch for a week or so. But, last I heard, Valpo was still thinking about the CBI - going to have conversations with players, etc. Did we ever hear anymore about that?

Valpo chose not to accept a invite to the CBI and yes only Drake/Loyola decided to pursue postseason opportunities. The NIT field is pretty stacked this year with good teams. Illinois State and SIU said they wouldn't accept anything less then a NIT bid this offseason. It seems that has been a common thread among Valley teams in recent years for whatever reason.

To be honest I can't blame schools for not wanting to cough up a significant amount $ to play in these postseason tournaments. It can sometimes make sense to play in the CBI/CIT if you have a young team to groom them for some postseason experience later on (ex: AP, JA, and LW's freshman season). Drake specifically entered the CIT because they have a senior laden roster that never had the opportunity to play in the postseason so that's why they chose to accept a invite to the CIT. The last time Drake played in a postseason tourney was 2012 (CIT).

[agibson]

I thought Paul or someone tweeted out that Lottich said it was a No to any post season at this point.

Ah there it is. Way back on March 5. Earlier in the week than I'd imagined.

[agibson]

Valpo chose not to accept a invite to the CBI and yes only Drake/Loyola decided to pursue postseason opportunities. The NIT field is pretty stacked this year with good teams. Illinois State and SIU said they wouldn't accept anything less then a NIT bid this offseason. It seems that has been a common thread among Valley teams in recent years for whatever reason.

To be honest I can't blame schools for not wanting to cough up a significant amount $ to play in these postseason tournaments. It can sometimes make sense to play in the CBI/CIT if you have a young team to groom them for some postseason experience later on (ex: AP, JA, and LW's freshman season). Drake specifically entered the CIT because they have a senior laden roster that never had the opportunity to play in the postseason so that's why they chose to accept a invite to the CIT. The last time Drake played in a postseason tourney was 2012 (CIT).

The finances are tricky. I don't really know what $$ to put on participation in these tournaments. I imagined that at least some teams were able to play for free/cheaply, that the costs were usually on the home teams. But, I'm not really sure.

In general, I didn't mind the Horizon League approach to them, which seemed some flavor of "play early, play often". If teams can get motivated for them (certainly not always a given) the extra practice times and games presumably has value, and winning a couple of games seems like a nice way to cap off a not-horrific-by-historical-standards season.

For Valpo, this year, I could have gotten into a CBI game. If the coaching staff thought the players would be into it (maybe they wanted to end the season...). At least to the tune of going to the ARC, or watching a stream, or even paying $5-10 for a stream.

It seems very strange for the 8th conference in RPI to send only two teams to the post-season.

[FieldGoodie05]

Belmont was in a similar position last season where they won the regular season but they lost in the tourney.

I've heard their HOF Coach Byrd talk about a potential conference switch as recently as this summer and was pretty blunt that they are staying put in the OVC. Belmont doesn't seem to have many aspirations to be in a better conference unless it's a obvious multi-bid league. The MVC currently isn't one but it has the best potential out of any of the Mid-Major conferences not named: A10, MWC, and WCC to be one again. There is rumors that Gonzaga is in talks to move to the MWC which would firmly make the WCC a 1-bid conference and St. Mary's would be forced to change their OOC scheduling ways.

I don't think Belmont is leaving the OVC. It sounds like they want to be the big fish in a very tiny pond. They may welcome the thought of Murray State leaving. The only way I see them leaving is if the OVC's future tv rights deal is in a really bad spot and it forces them to look elsewhere.

Who can blame them, we are now in the MVC which is a 1 bid league in a year where they are #8 in conference RPI.

Really hope we don't regret this move...

[VU2014]

Really hope we don't regret this move...

With that mentality we'd still be in the old mid-con (SL) playing the Chicago States of the world twice a year, which would be miserable. As a fan I know I won't. I was tired of beating up garbage Horizon League teams.

[vu72]

From a University standpoint and even from a non-basketball recruiting viewpoint, who you hang around with matters.  We are hanging with Drake, Evansville, Loyola, Bradley, Northern Iowa, Illinois State etc when we used to hang with Youngstown State, Cleveland State, Green Bay, Oakland, Milwaukee etc.  Really no comparison academically.

[FieldGoodie05]

Really hope we don't regret this move...

With that mentality we'd still be in the old mid-con (SL) playing the Chicago States of the world twice a year, which would be miserable. As a fan I know I won't. I was tired of beating up garbage Horizon League teams.

Change for the sake of change does not make progress.  I'll be tepid with this move until we prove we can make the NCAA tournament with relative frequency.  For conversation sake I'll say 1x per 4-year class.  I think it's reasonable to say that was our trajectory in the HL.

We gave up a lot with this move to the MVC that the HL and Summit gave us.

All I know is that relatively few at-large bids historically come from mid-majors.  BUT 100% of the time the Summit and HL send forth their champion.

No matter how I look at this our chances to get 1x in a 4-year class are sizably diminished in the MVC.

Now if the argument is conference longevity and strong conference affiliates with similar institutions then heck yeah it was a great move.  I remain cautiously optimistic but certainly not fully with the move to the MVC just yet.

[FWalum]

Really hope we don't regret this move...

With that mentality we'd still be in the old mid-con (SL) playing the Chicago States of the world twice a year, which would be miserable. As a fan I know I won't. I was tired of beating up garbage Horizon League teams.

Change for the sake of change does not make progress.  I'll be tepid with this move until we prove we can make the NCAA tournament with relative frequency.  For conversation sake I'll say 1x per 4-year class.  I think it's reasonable to say that was our trajectory in the HL.

We gave up a lot with this move to the MVC that the HL and Summit gave us.

All I know is that relatively few at-large bids historically come from mid-majors.  BUT 100% of the time the Summit and HL send forth their champion.

No matter how I look at this our chances to get 1x in a 4-year class are sizably diminished in the MVC.

Now if the argument is conference longevity and strong conference affiliates with similar institutions then heck yeah it was a great move.  I remain cautiously optimistic but certainly not fully with the move to the MVC just yet.

I don't even know how to respond to this, there is so much more to a conference affiliation other than just basketball and making the tournament and getting clobbered as a 14, 15 or 16 seed.

[FieldGoodie05]

We didn't get clobbered by Maryland while in the HL auto bid spot.  I'm telling you guys, Evansville has had a tough go in this conference.  What makes us any different?

I'd welcome learning on this subject. Because on the surface we were fine in the HL.  I'm sick of us belittling the likes of Belmont for sticking to the OVC.

[FWalum]

We didn't get clobbered by Maryland while in the HL auto bid spot.  I'm telling you guys, Evansville has had a tough go in this conference.  What makes us any different?

I'd welcome learning on this subject. Because on the surface we were fine in the HL.  I'm sick of us belittling the likes of Belmont for sticking to the OVC.

The Horizon League has regressed pretty far even since that time and I am not sure they can make it back even if we had stayed. Have been on a board at UE and knowing some of the admins there, I can tell you that they feel being in the MVC is a feather in their cap and would not entertain a move down to the HL. 

[VU2014]

The Horizon League was historically bad this season. The 28th worst out of 32 conferences. The Horizon League served it purpose for us and was a stepping stone but we were ready to move on. We are just naturally a better fit for the MVC when it comes to basketball, academics and it also brings a prestige that the Horizon League doesn't offer. FieldGoodie05, if we didn't take this next step there were plenty of Horizon League schools who would have been thrilled to take our spot.

[craftyrighthander]

I conducted an unscientific poll at work (three participants, one with SEC ties, one with Big Ten ties, and one with A-10 ties).  I asked, "If you were a Valpo fan, would you rather be in the MVC or the Horizon?"  Two people said "The MVC", and the third said "Remind me again who is in the Horizon."  When I recited the likes of Wright State, Green Bay, Detroit, etc., he said "Moving to the MVC was the smartest thing Valpo could have done."

Perception does matter, whether in terms of recruiting athletes, recruiting general students, forming rivalries etc.   As VU 72 suggests, the academic quality of your conference peers does and should matter.  Give Valpo some time, and it will be in the mix for conference championships, which will be even more meaningful in the MVC.

[FieldGoodie05]

I conducted an unscientific poll at work (three participants, one with SEC ties, one with Big Ten ties, and one with A-10 ties).  I asked, "If you were a Valpo fan, would you rather be in the MVC or the Horizon?"  Two people said "The MVC", and the third said "Remind me again who is in the Horizon."  When I recited the likes of Wright State, Green Bay, Detroit, etc., he said "Moving to the MVC was the smartest thing Valpo could have done."

Perception does matter, whether in terms of recruiting athletes, recruiting general students, forming rivalries etc.   As VU 72 suggests, the academic quality of your conference peers does and should matter.  Give Valpo some time, and it will be in the mix for conference championships, which will be even more meaningful in the MVC.

I agree with academic and geography.  But if you asked anyone today if they knew about Valpo.....it's because of our NCAA tournament success.  It goes hand in hand with public awareness of our school.

I live in Chicago and my co-workers and friends know Valpo mostly due to post season success.  Not academics, not anything else.  Being a perennial 5th place team in the MVC sure won't help if that's our future.

I'd like to think we are headed for contention but we have a world of work ahead of us to get there.  I don't want you all to agree with me tonight, but please respect that this conference move isn't all you protest it to be YET.

[talksalot]

and the Valley is 1-0 in the post season as the Bulldogs beat Abilene Christian 80-73, in Overtime.

That is an interesting bracket setup... 4 games today; the winners today play the 4-bye teams in a geographically-re-seeded arrangement; so if San Diego wins tonight, they will probably head to Portland State; if not, Drake will probably head to the coast for that one.
===========================================================

THE CLASSICS on  MONDAY, March 12th
  Winners will play Wofford (21-12), Northern Colorado (22-12), Portland State (20-13) and Sam Houston State (19-14)

Hugh Durham Classic - CBS Sports Network -  Scoreboard
Central Michigan 94, Fort Wayne 89

Lou Henson Classic - CBS Sports Network -  Scoreboard
Drake 80, Abilene Christian 73

Jim Phelan Classic- 6:00 PM EST on CBS Sports Network -  Scoreboard
Liberty 65, North Carolina A&T 52

Riley Wallace Classic 10:00 PM EST on CBS Sports Network -  Scoreboard
Hartford (19-13) @ San Diego (18-13)
============================================
There are 3 other first round games on Wednesday and one Thursday
WEDNESDAY MARCH 14
Saint Francis PA (18-12) @ UIC (17-15)
Niagara (19-13) @ Eastern Michigan (21-12)
Lamar (19-13) @ UTSA (19-14)

THURSDAY MARCH 15
UL Monroe (16-15) @ Austin Peay (18-14)
==========================================

that will reduce the number of teams to 8...

QUARTERFINALS
March 22-25

SEMIFINALS
March 28
7:00 PM EST on CBS Sports Network
9:00 PM EST on CBS Sports Network

CHAMPIONSHIP
March 30
7:00 PM EST on CBS Sports Network

[FieldGoodie05]

So I thought I read somewhere that Javon's Whitney Young team plays Simeon tomorrow in the super sectional.  Is that usually televised?

[VUGrad1314]

The Valley also hasn't shown us its full potential yet. This coming year could be big for the conference. Also, I respectfully submit that programs aren't maintained or grown by being overly  conservative and never taking risks. Look at the past several examples of realignment for basketball schools:

Butler Xavier and Creighton are better off in the Big East

Loyola is better off in the MVC

Wichita State is better off in the AAC

VCU George Mason and Davidson are better off in the A10 (just remember that Jim Larranaga and Shaka Smart were leaving anyway and coaches of that caliber are hard to replace. These programs are in much better position to attract the talent needed to rebound where they are.)

College of Charleston Elon and Northeastern are better off in the CAA

I close with a quote from a member of the Board of Regents at Murray State: "You are who you compete against" And that's true as a university as well as a program. Bear in mind that no less than Gonzaga is shopping for a new home. I've said it before and I'll say it again If Gonzaga--they of 20 straight tournament appearances and all of those tournament wins--can move, anyone can (and should when presented with an opportunity)

[valpotx]

The MVC is a forever conference for a school like Valpo...the HL is not.

[crusader05]

Also, I'd think that MVC schools have a better chance at competing in the tournament no matter who they are which means more tournament money making it's way to Valpo even if they're not the ones making it to the tournament every year.

[agibson]

I don't even know how to respond to this, there is so much more to a conference affiliation other than just basketball and making the tournament and getting clobbered as a 14, 15 or 16 seed.

I consider Loyola's 11 seed a definite sign for hope in the MVC. Even if the MVC and the Horizon remain mostly one-bid conferences, that's a better seed than anybody not named Butler got in our time in the Horizon.

(And, Loyola was, what, 2nd out of the at-large? In a year with a lot of MVC parity that's not _too_ bad...)

[VUGrad1314]

Now if we can just get Murray State and Belmont to come aboard we'd be in business

[FieldGoodie05]

Also, I'd think that MVC schools have a better chance at competing in the tournament no matter who they are which means more tournament money making it's way to Valpo even if they're not the ones making it to the tournament every year.

Or any year if we are not careful.  Big Big Big move up in competition means we better wear our big boy pants.  Because otherwise, welcome obscurity....

[justducky]

I consider Loyola's 11 seed a definite sign for hope in the MVC. Even if the MVC and the Horizon remain mostly one-bid conferences, that's a better seed than anybody not named Butler got in our time in the Horizon.

Loyola of the 8'th best conference, was under seeded. They lost 3 of 5 games without their MVC Player Of The Year Clayton Custer. This is supposed to be taken into account for seeding. I have seen zero evidence that the committee even considered it.

Don't get me wrong the 11 was not unexpected and I like their chances against Miami. BUT they and we should take this as an insult. Remember that next year or 2020 or both, we could be wearing their shoes and I will guarantee we would be screaming about the same circumstances.

Go Ramblers!

[VU2014]

Also, I'd think that MVC schools have a better chance at competing in the tournament no matter who they are which means more tournament money making it's way to Valpo even if they're not the ones making it to the tournament every year.

Or any year if we are not careful.  Big Big Big move up in competition means we better wear our big boy pants.  Because otherwise, welcome obscurity....

The thing is many of our previous teams could have always been competitive in the MVC. Valpo was 5-0 vs MVC teams the previous 3 year before joining the conference. Night in and night out, it's more competitive but it's not like our previous teams would be completely outclassed by most MVC teams. I'd be shocked and very disappointed if we are bottom dwellers in the MVC again next season. It was a rebuild year this year where we finished 6-12 without out our best scorer (Burton) and our best player was recovering from mono for a large part of the beginning of the 1st half of the conference season. This team could have very well have finished in the Top half of the league with Burton.