MVC Hoops: 2017-18

[VUGrad1314]

Too many people too scared of change and in need of too many guarantees. Too many fans and programs in small leagues not wanting to move unless it's a surefire multibid league not realizing that their presence will help make it one. Do you think Gonzaga and their fans are worried about whether the Mountain West will be a multibid league every year? No because they know that they are propping up the numbers of the WCC  and their presence in the MWC makes it an easy 2-3 bid league without any upsets in the tournament. In much the same way Belmont and Murray State would have not only further enhanced Loyola's resume but also would have had a similar effect on SIU Illinois State etc. Murray State even beat both of those teams meaning they probably would have had an RPI of at least 25-30 with several Q1 wins in the MVC. Our league would have had AT LEAST 5 top 100 schools in  Murray Loyola ILST SIU and Bradley and who knowsif it would have been enough to get Evansville or Missouri State (or if Belmont) would have been a sixth or more The Mountain West without Gonzaga had 4 with two knocking right on the door.  If Belmont weren't a bunch of yellow-bellied cowards we'd have a league just a shade below if not at parity with the MWC and we'd still be in striking distance even after they added Gonzaga because a lot of the MVC teams would be getting better. This is why I'm constantly blasting Belmont and will continue to do so until they grow a set. Their cowardice isn't just hurting their program (notice they missed both the tournament and the NIT despite a strong nonconference schedule and good wins because everyone except them seems to know that the OVC sucks so much for the big fish small pond theory) but also the MVC and mid majors and even college basketball as a whole. A program and institution of Belmont's caliber belongs among other top flight regional colleges not with a bunch of Podunk Tennessee schools in constant APR trouble. Next year we start getting units for that. Belmont has so much money to make by making this move that they can't make in the OVC. Travel and scholarship costs will be more than offset especially if the conference goes to divisions, yet everyone seems to see this but them. My conclusion is that they're either cowards or run by idiots but either way they deserve to be ridiculed because their stance in today's college basketball climate is utterly ridiculous.

[VUGrad1314]

Also, I'd think that MVC schools have a better chance at competing in the tournament no matter who they are which means more tournament money making it's way to Valpo even if they're not the ones making it to the tournament every year.

Or any year if we are not careful.  Big Big Big move up in competition means we better wear our big boy pants.  Because otherwise, welcome obscurity....

The thing is many of our previous teams could have always been competitive in the MVC. Valpo was 5-0 vs MVC teams the previous 3 year before joining the conference. Night in and night out, it's more competitive but it's not like our previous teams would be completely outclassed by most MVC teams. I'd be shocked and very disappointed if we are bottom dwellers in the MVC again next season. It was a rebuild year this year where we finished 6-12 without out our best scorer (Burton) and our best player was recovering from mono for a large part of the beginning of the 1st half of the conference season. This team could have very well have finished in the Top half of the league with Burton.

Absolutely. Top half of the league was what? 9-9 this year? It only takes a couple crucial buckets to turn the road games at SIU Evansville and Missouri State into wins. Burton himself or the pressure he would have taken off the rest of the team would very likely have found those buckets and more for us. At a minimum we're likely right there with Bradley for the 5 seed. If you believe as I do that Burton's absence also contributed to those slow starts that doomed us against Indiana State Bradley and Evansville the first time aeouar in league play then we could very possibly have turned those into wins as well. If that happens we jump up to second in the conference at 21-11 RPI somewhere around 100 (we probably could have snatched away at least one UNI game and we surely don't lose to Riverside.) and end up 2nd in the MVC.MAnd all of this despite Walkers mono and getting nothing from several players throughout much of the year. Burtons loss was huge probably the biggest factor in the teamst struggles by far

[FieldGoodie05]

Too many people too scared of change and in need of too many guarantees. Too many fans and programs in small leagues not wanting to move unless it's a surefire multibid league not realizing that their presence will help make it one. Do you think Gonzaga and their fans are worried about whether the Mountain West will be a multibid league every year? No because they know that they are propping up the numbers of the WCC  and their presence in the MWC makes it an easy 2-3 bid league without any upsets in the tournament. In much the same way Belmont and Murray State would have not only further enhanced Loyola's resume but also would have had a similar effect on SIU Illinois State etc. Murray State even beat both of those teams meaning they probably would have had an RPI of at least 25-30 with several Q1 wins in the MVC. Our league would have had AT LEAST 5 top 100 schools in  Murray Loyola ILST SIU and Bradley and who knowsif it would have been enough to get Evansville or Missouri State (or if Belmont) would have been a sixth or more The Mountain West without Gonzaga had 4 with two knocking right on the door.  If Belmont weren't a bunch of yellow-bellied cowards we'd have a league just a shade below if not at parity with the MWC and we'd still be in striking distance even after they added Gonzaga because a lot of the MVC teams would be getting better. This is why I'm constantly blasting Belmont and will continue to do so until they grow a set. Their cowardice isn't just hurting their program (notice they missed both the tournament and the NIT despite a strong nonconference schedule and good wins because everyone except them seems to know that the OVC sucks so much for the big fish small pond theory) but also the MVC and mid majors and even college basketball as a whole. A program and institution of Belmont's caliber belongs among other top flight regional colleges not with a bunch of Podunk Tennessee schools in constant APR trouble. Next year we start getting units for that. Belmont has so much money to make by making this move that they can't make in the OVC. Travel and scholarship costs will be more than offset especially if the conference goes to divisions, yet everyone seems to see this but them. My conclusion is that they're either cowards or run by idiots but either way they deserve to be ridiculed because their stance in today's college basketball climate is utterly ridiculous.

Your entitled to your wrong opinion 😜

[craftyrighthander]

It will take at least five years to fully evaluate the move to the MVC.  In the short-term, I see more Pros than Cons:

Pros: 

MVC is 8th ranked conference in Men's Basketball.

Better competition.

MVC better overall fan support.

MVC "Arch Madness" far surpasses the Horizon tourney.

MVC has stronger reputation in other sports (e.g., Women's basketball, volleyball, baseball)

Road trip possibilities are better for Valpo fans and students in MVC. Wouldn't you rather road trip to a game at Illinois State instead of Cleveland State?

MVC has more TV games.

MVC has better academics.

Cons:

Valpo finished 10th in its first year.  Frankly, that's all I see.

[FieldGoodie05]

For some of us younger fans, Evansville since the MVC is a cautionary tale.  Read a bit on their dominance in D2 and the original HL.  Then see 1 NCAA appearance while in the MVC since 1999.

Maybe our Evansville guest can chime in on his experience.  We are very similar programs I think, as a student of history I'd welcome others Valpo fans who know more here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evansville_Purple_Aces_men's_basketball

[VULB#62]

Before there were NCAA divisions there was a University and Small College split. E'ville was a monster in the Small College arena. Over time they were not able to sustain that dominance. They have the arena, past history and rabid fans to turn this around.

[VU2014]

The Evansville message board is talking about the idea of hiring away Coach Ragland in a lateral move to become their assistant to whoever their new Head Coach would be. Coach Rags is a Evansville native but would he really make that lateral move just get closer to home? I'd think if he interviews for the Head Coaching job he wouldn't want to be an assistant there unless the new head coach made him the associate HC and gave him a pay raise. I hope Coach Ragland doesn't leave this offseason. He's valuable member of our program and would be a blow if we lost him.

http://www.purpleacesfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1320

[FWalum]

The Evansville message board is talking about the idea of hiring away Coach Ragland in a lateral move to become their assistant to whoever their new Head Coach would be. Coach Rags is a Evansville native but would he really make that lateral move just get closer to home? I'd think if he interviews for the Head Coaching job he wouldn't want to be an assistant there unless the new head coach made him the associate HC and gave him a pay raise. I hope Coach Ragland doesn't leave this offseason. He's valuable member of our program and would be a blow if we lost him.

http://www.purpleacesfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1320

Interesting to see that Greg Tonagel's name was also mentioned in the Courier & Press article.

[valpo84]

As to E'ville, I wrote this around January 19:

"Just a quick comment on this.  Evansville was never in the Horizon.  It was in the old MCC (Midwestern Cities Conference), which was a multi-bid league for many years and had some of the best basketball in the Midwest during the mid-late 1980s thru about early 1990s.  It then broke apart with teams going to the new Horizon League (with poached AMCU-8 schools Green Bay, Milwaukee, Wright State, CSU), and some going other places like E-Ville to the MVC, SLU to the Great Midwest/Conf USA.  Maybe E-ville should have went with the HL, but those teams of the late 80s/early 90s were really good.  Jim Crews was the head coach through that era, and in 88-89 they had a young Chris Mack (who would later transfer to X), Scott Hafner, Olaf Blab (yes, uwe's brother), in 91-92 they had Parrish Casebier averaging 25 and Scott Shreffler who was one of the better all-around guards in those days who started for 4 years, and 92-93 had Parrish and Scott. Scott also appeared in Blue Chips (like Shane Hammink's Dad).  The MCC was one of the most competitive leagues around and we went to a lot of X games during that period along with the conference tourneys held at Dayton.  Dayton, X, SLU, EVille, Detroit, Loyola all had outstanding players, teams and coaches.  X was running off multiple NCAA bids with guys like Larkin, Ty Hill, Derek Strong, Jamal Walker etc.  Butler was in the conference and rebuilding (later with Barry Collier as coach).  So, Eville's issues aren't all because it moved to MVC.  So, I'm not sure that is the strongest comparison to where we are now or will be.  We need to be competing against like minded schools that helps raise our competitiveness.  Remember there were a lot less D1 schools in those days too."

The Evansville tradition goes back to Jerry Sloan in the 1960s.  Jim Crews was a major factor in E'Ville 1980s-90s competitiveness. It is an example that a strong coach can impact a program and a weak coach can set it back at the mid-major level.  The Marty Simmons Experiment did not reinvigorate the program although it continues to play good basketball (hey remember Bouchie?).  Anyway, E'Ville has that critical decision to make -- go young coach to build or find a retread.  Tonagel would be a great hire because he has a system, knows the state, and can flat out coach.  But this is the dilemma that we faced 2 years ago when we ran out of Drews.  Lottich is the young coach out of your coaching tree (the Butler Way if you will).  We also have nearly 25 years of success (with a couple of down rebuilding seasons).  Evansville has a "history," but like UCLA and some other schools that were coach-dependent, the coach leaves and it can become barren land for many years.   For the conference, we hope that they make the right hire.  A Tonagel hire is a testament to what he has built at IWU, but it is also an indication that the Valpo Way and the Drew coaching tree are spreading their roots.  With Bryce, Scott, Matt and possible Greg and Roger getting HC gigs, that will be 5 D1 men's head coaches currently from this program with Jake Diebler certain to be headed to a MAC or HL school at some point for his first HC gig. 

[VU2014]

What seems to be Evansville's greatest problem since their glory days has been coaching and recruiting. Jim Crews had some good success earlier in his tenure at Evansville during the late 80's/early 90's but success curtailed. Steve Merfeld sounds like he was a awful hire. Marty Simmons had a few good seasons but never achieve a great amount of conference regular season success in the MVC in his 11 seasons there. Apparently Evansville has the smallest basketball budget in the MVC. Marty was only make $250,000 (which is a small salary at this level of basketball).

I'm not sure having a rich basketball history at the D2 level in the 50s/60s/70s will help them in the hiring process outside of candidates native to the area or from the greater Indiana area.

The candidate with the most smoke around his name is Calbert Cheaney. I understand the connection to the area but he has only a few years of experience in coaching, but the same could have been said about Coach Lottich but the jury is still out on if Coach Lottich was the right hire even if there has been some positive signs the last 2 seasons.

If Tonagel emerges as the dark-horse winner for the Evansville job and he carried over his success from the NAIA level to D1/MVC and end up consistently beat Valpo, then someone in our Athletics Department would have egg all over their face. There are a lot of "ifs" in that scenario but it would be a really terrible look if that scenario played out.

[FWalum]

Apparently Evansville has the smallest basketball budget in the MVC.

This is incorrect, they were 4th in the most recent reporting from 2015. Take out Wichita State and they are actually 3rd. They certainly were not last. I am not sure if new numbers are out, but I doubt they would have dropped very far.

2015 men's basketball budgets
Missouri Valley
$6,920,933, Wichita State
$3,128,419, Bradley
$2,899,699, Northern Iowa
$2,899,667, Evansville
$2,745,553, Loyola
$2,666,213, Valparaiso
$2,472,212, Drake
$2,452,961, Illinois State
$2,279,917, Missouri State
$2,241,413, Southern Illinois
$1,832,975, Indiana State

[VULB#62]

Apparently Evansville has the smallest basketball budget in the MVC.

This is incorrect, they were 4th in the most recent reporting from 2015. Take out Wichita State and they are actually 3rd. They certainly were not last. I am not sure if new numbers are out, but I doubt they would have dropped very far.

2015 men's basketball budgets
Missouri Valley
$6,920,933, Wichita State
$3,128,419, Bradley
$2,899,699, Northern Iowa
$2,899,667, Evansville
$2,745,553, Loyola
$2,666,213, Valparaiso
$2,472,212, Drake
$2,452,961, Illinois State
$2,279,917, Missouri State
$2,241,413, Southern Illinois
$1,832,975, Indiana State

Interesting that 5 of the top 6 spenders are private -- but that's probably due to the higher tuition, R&B, and fees incurred at a private university compared to state schools.

[VU2014]

Team budgets include the cost of each of the 12 student-athletes scholarships to attend school for 1 years tuition, room and board fees, books, meal plans, stipends, etc. Private schools generally cost more to attend then public schools. That's what causes the skew.

[VU2014]

Some Missouri State news. Roger Powell is no longer in consideration for the MSU head coaching job. It sounds like it was on Roger's end who pulled his name from consideration.

https://twitter.com/joehoopsreport/status/973230087230377984

[valpotx]

I would have stayed put as well, with the amount of 5 star recruits coming in next season.  He will have better opportunities after that season.

[VU2014]

Interesting news

https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/974377345892143106

check this out lol

https://twitter.com/WyattWheeler_NL/status/974370317501165569
https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/974370697215660032
https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/974371156831727616

[vu72]

LOYOLA WINS AT THE BUZZER!!!! Fantastic effort!!

[vu84v2]

Fantastic win for Loyola. Hung tough the entire game and their guy made the shot of the tournament.

[covufan]

I would have stayed put as well, with the amount of 5 star recruits coming in next season.  He will have better opportunities after that season.

I'm wondering if the Vandy Associate HC salary would be greater than MVC new HC salary.

[FieldGoodie05]

Fantastic win for Loyola. Hung tough the entire game and their guy made the shot of the tournament.

W for the MVC!!!  Has Loyola had success in NCAA tournament in the past?

[NativeCheesehead]

Smits wasn't even in Dallas and Krutwig still scored on him three times.

[FWalum]

Extremely Happy for Loyola and the MVC.  I get so So SO tired of listening to the P5 bull crap during this tournament that it is wonderful to shut them up. Kept referring to Loyola as the underdog not once mentioning that they were virtually ranked even with Miami (above in some) in most of the metrics.   

So happy to be in the MVC!!

[vufan75]

Extremely Happy for Loyola and the MVC.  I get so So SO tired of listening to the P5 bull crap during this tournament that it is wonderful to shut them up. Kept referring to Loyola as the underdog not once mentioning that they were virtually ranked even with Miami (above in some) in most of the metrics.   

So happy to be in the MVC!!

Amen! Well said. Can't wait for the JFL matchup vs Loyola' s Lucas Williamson the next few years. I think they were teammates at WY in high school. Fun stuff!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[VU2014]

Awesome win for Loyola!

[VU2014]

I would have stayed put as well, with the amount of 5 star recruits coming in next season.  He will have better opportunities after that season.

I'm wondering if the Vandy Associate HC salary would be greater than MVC new HC salary.

I'm guessing Coach Powell got a nice raise to stick around for another year or 2. He has a chance to boost his stock if Vandy goes on a deep run the next few years.