2018-19 VU Schedule

[EddieCabot]

Just did some digging and from what I gather there is no maximum for exhibitions. Therefore, there's literally no excuse not to load up on these to get our non-D1 tune up jollies and no reason to waste regular season slots on them.

Allowed two exhibition games against non-D1 opponents.  Can replace one of those games with a closed scrimmage against another D1 team.

[VUGrad1314]

So that's 2 non D1 exhibitions or 1 non-D1 exhibition + 1 closed scrimmage right? I respectfully submit that that's enough tune up time. It'd be even better if the NCAA would allow 2 non-D1 exhibitions + 1-2 closed scrimmages as a means of eliminating schedule fluff and  strengthening nonconference schedules across the board as coaches feel less need to load up on easy games early. Also punish P5 teams that gorge themselves on cupcakes early and rely on their in-conference schedule to get them into the tournament.

[Valpower]

So that's 2 non D1 exhibitions or 1 non-D1 exhibition + 1 closed scrimmage right? I respectfully submit that that's enough tune up time. It'd be even better if the NCAA would allow 2 non-D1 exhibitions + 1-2 closed scrimmages as a means of eliminating schedule fluff and  strengthening nonconference schedules across the board as coaches feel less need to load up on easy games early. Also punish P5 teams that gorge themselves on cupcakes early and rely on their in-conference schedule to get them into the tournament.

I'm down with this, but any ideas on exactly how should we punish Cleveland State for this?

[IrishDawg]

So that's 2 non D1 exhibitions or 1 non-D1 exhibition + 1 closed scrimmage right? I respectfully submit that that's enough tune up time. It'd be even better if the NCAA would allow 2 non-D1 exhibitions + 1-2 closed scrimmages as a means of eliminating schedule fluff and  strengthening nonconference schedules across the board as coaches feel less need to load up on easy games early. Also punish P5 teams that gorge themselves on cupcakes early and rely on their in-conference schedule to get them into the tournament.

Normally, though last year the NCAA allowed an extra exhibition game if the funds made were donated to hurricane relief. 

I completely disagree with the 2nd piece of your post.  Increasing the number of closed scrimmages would almost completely eliminate the opportunity for a mid-major to get a home and home (or any type of series that would result in a home game) with a power program, because the exact opposite would occur, given those programs would still want a certain number of home games for revenue, and then the remainder of their OOC schedule would be their neutral site tournament games and conference challenge games.  As much as you might want to see the NCAA legislation "force" major conferences to give games to mid-major programs, that would be the quickest way to those conferences getting fed up and leaving the NCAA, which would then take all of that TV money which funds the tourney shares away.  I completely understand your frustration, but that wouldn't be the way that I think would get you the result you'd like for Valpo's non-conference schedule.

[VUGrad1314]

I didn't mean for those extra scrimmages to come at the expense of any nonconference games (still 9 + an MTE) just starting the exhibitions\scrimmages earlier so that there's more time to play them. I agree that legislating against the P5 is a good way to get them to leave but what can we do? Something has to be done to at least give teams at our level a chance. Maybe the committee stating that they will be emphasizing NCSOS or would this only cause P5 teams to play each other more?

[VUGrad1314]

Also who is our second sweet 16 opponent? Are we going back to Mackey to play the Boilermakers?

[EddieCabot]

I have to assume there's a second game out east coupled with the GW game somehow right? Can't see that trip being a one-off, though perhaps it is given how close that is to finals. Wonder who it could be.

Agree.  Lot's of schools in/near DC ... Georgetown, Maryland, UMBC and Towson, just off the top of my head.  G-town and Maryland would probably be buy games, but that game would more than pay for the trip and put some $ in the air conditioning fund. 

[elephtheria47]

We are in the Missouri Valley now...we shouldnt expect to have to schedule two games on a trip to make it work. Why limit yourself as to when and who and where you can play? Stand alone games should be expected.

[VUGrad1314]

If the game is worth it (Maryland Georgetown  VCU George  Mason Marshall Pitt Duquesne Penn State Cincinnati Xavier etc.) we should absolutely take it though.

[VU2014]

We are in the Missouri Valley now...we shouldnt expect to have to schedule two games on a trip to make it work. Why limit yourself as to when and who and where you can play? Stand alone games should be expected.

Two games on one OOC road trip isn't unreasonable. The less travel the better.

[FieldGoodie05]

We are in the Missouri Valley now...we shouldnt expect to have to schedule two games on a trip to make it work. Why limit yourself as to when and who and where you can play? Stand alone games should be expected.

Two games on one OOC road trip isn't unreasonable. The less travel the better.

I'll believe At-Large even exists for Valpo when I see the current MVC produce one.  I'm still skeptical that the current NCAA committee sees this conference as A10 multi-bid equivalent.  We have work ahead of us and Loyola set a stupendous foundation that must continue for MVC legitimacy to arrive.

Therefore I say schedule the most home games you can get while still preparing the team for conference.  In the end, does having a road P5 in lieu of a home non-D1 add value?

If it's (1) non-D1 exhibition + (1) non-D1 OOC then I'm down with that program.  Again, who else of national recognition is coming to the ARC guys?  Rhode Island was amazing, but how many Rhode Island's are coming to Valpo?  They aren't lining up, so let's make sue and give the team a deserved home game that wouldn't be otherwise.

[VUGrad1314]

We are in the Missouri Valley now...we shouldnt expect to have to schedule two games on a trip to make it work. Why limit yourself as to when and who and where you can play? Stand alone games should be expected.

Two games on one OOC road trip isn't unreasonable. The less travel the better.

I'll believe At-Large even exists for Valpo when I see the current MVC produce one.  I'm still skeptical that the current NCAA committee sees this conference as A10 multi-bid equivalent.  We have work ahead of us and Loyola set a stupendous foundation that must continue for MVC legitimacy to arrive. Therefore I say schedule the most home games you can get while still preparing the team for conference.  In the end, does having a road P5 in lieu of a home non-D1 add value? If it's (1) non-D1 exhibition + (1) non-D1 OOC then I'm down with that program.  Again, who else of national recognition is coming to the ARC guys?  Rhode Island was amazing, but how many Rhode Island's are coming to Valpo?  They aren't lining up, so let's make sue and give the team a deserved home game that wouldn't be otherwise.

While I agree that we should try to get as many home games as possible and I sympathize with the plight of mid-major scheduling. I know it's hard but I refuse to believe it's impossible. If even Barry Hinson is juicing his schedule with two games against the Buffalo Bulls, there's no reason to believe  it is. Win a lot of games against a top 80-100 overall slate and you can beat out the last few mediocre P5 teams for bids.Assuming at-large doesn't exist for the MVC is the surest and only way to ensure beyond a doubt that you're right. For now, I can grudgingly accept one non-D1 game I guess but I respectfully submit: does an easy layup game against a non-D1 really add value even though it was a home game? Fans don't get up for it and I bet honestly neither do the players really. I think they'd honestly get more value out of a buy game because it's at least a chance to make a statement and get a signature win.

[FieldGoodie05]

Hey Paul, when can we expect the next Union Street Hoops!?!?  Appreciate all that you do, please keep up the great work.

[historyman]

A FEW?!!! They'd better be exhibitions. You can't schedule multiple non-D1s and schools like UC-Riverside and SIU-Edwardsville and then complain about declining attendance numbers. This was a year to start loading up in preparation for next year and it's the same crap. If and when the MVC gets multiple bids this coming year they're going to be really sorry they went soft again and put their eggs in the Arch Madness basket. Illinois State got it done UNI gets it done routinely, Missouri State, SIU, and  Evansville are getting the message and here we are doing the same thing we've always done. If we miss out on the tournament again in the future  because of this "it doesn't hurt our RPI," and "its what we've always done." horse crap I know I won't be the only fan upset. Only this time, it won't be at the committee because it will show that we haven't learned anything and the drumbeat of "buyer's remorse" and "we should have added Murray State instead" will only get louder among the other fanbases in this conference. The old way wasn't working. That's why we joined the MVC in the first place. Now, the scheduling needs to evolve too if we really want to move forward and consistently contend. Our coaches and athletic department do such a good job on everything else, so in some respects I'm sorry for this rant; and I know it's hard, but for God's sake if  Illinois State can do it so can we. It's just going to take a little extra hard work.

Chill.



Are you trying to minimize his thoughts?

[VUGrad1314]

We are in the Missouri Valley now...we shouldnt expect to have to schedule two games on a trip to make it work. Why limit yourself as to when and who and where you can play? Stand alone games should be expected.

Two games on one OOC road trip isn't unreasonable. The less travel the better.

I'll believe At-Large even exists for Valpo when I see the current MVC produce one.  I'm still skeptical that the current NCAA committee sees this conference as A10 multi-bid equivalent.  We have work ahead of us and Loyola set a stupendous foundation that must continue for MVC legitimacy to arrive. Therefore I say schedule the most home games you can get while still preparing the team for conference.  In the end, does having a road P5 in lieu of a home non-D1 add value? If it's (1) non-D1 exhibition + (1) non-D1 OOC then I'm down with that program.  Again, who else of national recognition is coming to the ARC guys?  Rhode Island was amazing, but how many Rhode Island's are coming to Valpo?  They aren't lining up, so let's make sue and give the team a deserved home game that wouldn't be otherwise.

While I agree that we should try to get as many home games as possible and I sympathize with the plight of mid-major scheduling. I know it's hard but I refuse to believe it's impossible. If even Barry Hinson is juicing his schedule with two games against the Buffalo Bulls, there's no reason to believe  it is. Win a lot of games against a top 80-100 overall slate and you can beat out the last few mediocre P5 teams for bids.Assuming at-large doesn't exist for the MVC is the surest and only way to ensure beyond a doubt that you're right. For now, I can grudgingly accept one non-D1 game I guess but I respectfully submit: does an easy layup game against a non-D1 really add value even though it was a home game? Fans don't get up for it and I bet honestly neither do the players really. I think they'd honestly get more value out of a buy game because it's at least a chance to make a statement and get a signature win.

Quite frankly I think the question of  the value of OOC non-D1s was settled last year. If ever there was a year to schedule non-D1s as valuable tune up games, it was last year with all the freshmen and new faces; yet, we still got hammered by Purdue and Northwestern by 30+ (and Northwestern was decidedly mediocre last year). Granted, we had injuries, lost Tevonn, had the Burton fiasco, etc, and yes, those were among our first experiences on the road, but that just proves my point: those extra home games did not prepare us to play higher level competition. I believe that our soft nonconference slate also contributed in some way to our slow start in MVC play. Either way, it didn't help--not even from a confidence standpoint, as it's clear, many players struggled with their confidence throughout the nonconference schedule\ early MVC play.

[historyman]

yet, we still got hammered by Purdue and Northwestern by 30+ (and Northwestern was decidedly mediocre last year).

Do you really remember the Northwestern game? Collins knew that slamming Valpo hard at the beginning of the game was the way to beat the Crusaders. The Wildcats hit 7 threes in the first half. It may have been a mediocre Northwestern team over the full spectrum of the season but that was not an average/mediocre team we played that night. Maybe we tend not to give B1G teams enough credit for playing the conference schedule they do play.

[IrishDawg]

I didn't mean for those extra scrimmages to come at the expense of any nonconference games (still 9 + an MTE) just starting the exhibitions\scrimmages earlier so that there's more time to play them. I agree that legislating against the P5 is a good way to get them to leave but what can we do? Something has to be done to at least give teams at our level a chance. Maybe the committee stating that they will be emphasizing NCSOS or would this only cause P5 teams to play each other more?

I'm not the most creative person, but really the most sure-fire solution to get the games you want is for Valpo to start winning consistently, making the tournament consistently, and win games in the tournament consistently.  Short of that, P5 schools aren't going to give Valpo home games unless it's a one-off type of event, like Purdue a few years back or Vandy coming up here.

[VU2014]

yet, we still got hammered by Purdue and Northwestern by 30+ (and Northwestern was decidedly mediocre last year).

Do you really remember the Northwestern game? Collins knew that slamming Valpo hard at the beginning of the game was the way to beat the Crusaders. The Wildcats hit 7 threes in the first half. It may have been a mediocre Northwestern team over the full spectrum of the season but that was not an average/mediocre team we played that night. Maybe we tend not to give B1G teams enough credit for playing the conference schedule they do play.

I'm willing to bet that the Northwestern buy game wasn't on the table when we had a Junior or Senior caliber AP and those more experienced teams. Same goes for Purdue. P5s mitigate their risk even if they would still be favored against an experienced VU team.

To compete with B10 caliber teams we need teams with experience to push them. Last years team almost had no shot with a sick Tevonn. NU outclassed us on every level that game. Burton and Golder were the only guys who could create their own shot (Micah had 9pts off the bench in garbage time but he also went 1-5 from the charity strike).

When we have teams with a heavy amount upperclassmen we need to get those NUs & Purdues of the world to schedule us and we need to perform. And for the love of God can we start winning some of the nationally televised OOC games we get. It feels like we have a drought going.

[vusupporter]

And for the love of God can we start winning some of the nationally televised OOC games we get. It feels like we have a drought going.

Last 3 years, we're 3-5 in nationally televised OOC games:
2017-18 - 0-2 (L - Purdue, Northwestern)
2016-17 - 1-2 (W - BYU; L - Oregon, Kentucky)
2015-16 - 2-1 (W - Rhode Island, Oregon State; L - Oregon)

[VU2014]

And for the love of God can we start winning some of the nationally televised OOC games we get. It feels like we have a drought going.

Last 3 years, we're 3-5 in nationally televised OOC games:
2017-18 - 0-2 (L - Purdue, Northwestern)
2016-17 - 1-2 (W - BYU; L - Oregon, Kentucky)
2015-16 - 2-1 (W - Rhode Island, Oregon State; L - Oregon)

Not as bad as I thought. Maybe last year's rough season is making me think things are worse than they really are. I'd just like us to get some of those Ws against P6 competition when we do get those chances.

[IrishDawg]

When we have teams with a heavy amount upperclassmen we need to get those NUs & Purdues of the world to schedule us and we need to perform. And for the love of God can we start winning some of the nationally televised OOC games we get. It feels like we have a drought going.

This is probably the biggest challenge that Valpo has currently.  Power programs are a lot smarter than they used to be.  They know who's coming back, and they generally have a pretty good idea about which mid-major programs are going to be a possible tourney team in a given year.  Most power programs will take the risk if they can get a buy game.  Butler did this a couple years ago with Vermont and Bucknell, and tried to do it last year with Princeton and Furman.  If the mids aren't willing to do a buy game, normally the Power program just moves on to another school who is.

So, these next couple of years when Valpo's going to be good, they may have to accept some buy games, similar to what they did when Peters was a Junior and they played Oregon and Oregon State in the hopes of getting some quality wins (Oregon State didn't wind up being the win they'd hoped for), and when Peters was a Senior and they played Oregon and Kentucky on the road (unfortunately neither of those games were close).  I actually think the coaching staff has a sensible approach to the schedule in terms of what they can get right now, Valpo just needs to break through and win one of these games.

[vu72]

And for the love of God can we start winning some of the nationally televised OOC games we get. It feels like we have a drought going.

Last 3 years, we're 3-5 in nationally televised OOC games:
2017-18 - 0-2 (L - Purdue, Northwestern)
2016-17 - 1-2 (W - BYU; L - Oregon, Kentucky)
2015-16 - 2-1 (W - Rhode Island, Oregon State; L - Oregon)

St. Mary's, BYU and GW were all National TV games as well.  That would make it 4-2 in 2015-16 OOC unless you were only focused on the regular season. 

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1030207484915589120

[VUGrad1314]

That's not be opener? Oh boy... We might get rocked in Myrtle Beach if all we do to prepare for it is play non-D1s... Please stop going so soft in advance of big games, I really think it's a big reason for the blow outs we see more often than not.

[jtm]

What the hell is Winthrop and Pacific travelling to Edwardsville for?