2018-19 VU Schedule

[DawgFan14]

They might not count against RPI, but they count in the Win column, and Valpo sure has loved bragging about that at the beginning of the year, right? Ya, Butler had some easy games on the schedule, I didn't deny that, but we still had a very strong OOC SOS. I still don't understand why you think we should drop one of our buy games for a H&H with you though. No one has been able to explain what Butler has to gain from a H&H with Valpo and why we should schedule you.

[NativeCheesehead]

All this..........................and yet, you feel the need to come troll the board of lowly Valpo.

Methinks the fan doth protest too much

[VU2014]

I think there is a difference between being excited and bragging. I don't remember too many people bragging to other fan-bases. It was definitely a weak first handful of games. Regardless once Burton left and Tevonn got mono expectations came down and those excitement level went down with them.

[vu72]

Sure, lets compare OOC SOS over the past few years


2017-2018
Butler: 14
Valpo: 183


2016-2017
Butler: 16
Valpo: 81


2015-2016
Butler: 22
Valpo: 50




Sure Butler has some cupcakes on their schedule, but you're ignoring the fact that we play a tough schedule OOC. But, okay, let's have some fun at look at Valpo's OOC.


2017-2018: North park, Trinity
2016-2017: Trinity, Chicago State
2015-2016: IU-Kokomo, Trinity


You guys aren't even playing D1 schools, and the worst part about it is is that you boast about how you have an 8-0 record, first team to 8 wins in NCAAM, etc. while having non D1 schools on your schedule!!!! Why don't you drop your non D1 games and take a buy game from Butler or some other big school? I'm sure there are plenty of teams that would be willing to take a "bottom of the pack" MVC team.


Beggars can't be choosers.

You can't be serious???

Your out of schedule includes:  Purdue (at home) Utah (at home) Ohio State (neutral court) Texas (neutral court) and Maryland (on the road  )

Valpo gets Purdue (on the road) and Northwestern (on the road).

And you have the gall to compare OOC's       Granted, Butler has "earned" those games via their success--to some extent. There I said it.  But the reality is that you and yours don't have the stones to play anybody on the road.

[DawgFan14]

You're definitely right. This is only a Butler thing and no other programs schedule like us.

Purdue was a neutral court game and Utah was a return game. So we played one major team at home, one away, and three on a neutral court (with the possibility of more if we would have avoided Portland  State in the PK80). It's understandable that we would have a better OOC SOS than you, but you're acting like we schedule no one but cupcakes in OOC.

I understand Valpo's frustration and difficulty in scheduling, as most teams view you as a lose-lose situation. You're basically stuck taking buy games at Big Ten schools or scheduling other mid majors until you can break through. It's sucks for all mid majors. 

But it is what it is. I didn't come here to troll, I just wanted to ask a simple question as every Valpo fan on Twitter seems to think they deserve a H&H with Butler. I don't view Valpo as a lowly school, I just don't see the need from Butler to schedule Valpo, and if Butler doesn't feel the need, then why should they? I certainly wouldn't mind playing Valpo again, and wouldn't be surprised if we find you guys on the schedule in the next few years.

[FieldGoodie05]

I think there is a difference between being excited and bragging. I don't remember too many people bragging to other fan-bases. It was definitely a weak first handful of games. Regardless once Burton left and Tevonn got mono expectations came down and those excitement level went down with them.

He had some valid points and should have let it go at that.  But now it seems braggadocious.  Way to drive home the stereotype Mr Butler.

ANY fan that goes onto their competitors forum and posts derogatorily is asking for it.  If he is at all surprised by some of the more ardent fans replies then he needs his sanity gage re-calibrated.

[M]

Playing Butler provides no benefit for Valpo. We beat them the last four times and it got us nothing. Need to schedule better then a mid level big east team.

[a3uge]

I get your hatred for Butler, but all schools have their obnoxious fans and Butler is no different. Valpo has theirs too, and if you can't find them, then it's you.


Anyways, I understand Valpo wanting a H&H with Butler. My wife went to Valpo and we spent all 4 years of college dating, so I spent some time at Valpo's campus, and I know what the Butler game means to Valpo. It was consistently the most hyped game of the year and brought in a huge crowd to the ARC. Valpo's campus loved the rivalry. Having spent 4 years at Butler and spending weekends on Valpo's campus, I can say with confidence that the rivalry is really only one sided. I know you will think that is condescending, but it's the honest truth. Butler has had that too, especially with IU. I remember in 2010-2011 people actually thought Duke was a rivalry. I know we have shared conferences, and in the same state, but I don't think it means much to anyone at Butler to be honest.


So this brings me to my question, what do you think Butler gets out of a H&H deal with Valpo? Butler consistently plays a difficult OOC schedule, so while I think Valpo at the ARC would be a tough game, it's not a tough game that Butler needs to schedule at all. We're playing in top tournaments (PK80, Maui, Puerto Rico Tip Off), have H&H with major programs over the past few years (Utah, Florida, Maryland, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Cincinnati ), and also have Crossroads Classic every year. Playing Valpo at Hinkle wouldn't generate any more interest than Ball State, Indiana State, Evansville, etc. I think Valpo has been the better program over the past couple of years, but people aren't going to pack Hinkle to see you guys play. Students wouldn't be much more interested in the game either.


Again, I understand why Valpo wants the game. It would boost your SOS and could help you get into the NCAA tournament. It would also be one of the biggest games of your season and be a sold out crowd, not to mention a good game for recruits to attend. But none of this is reciprocal to Butler.

I can't disagree with anything you said, but Butler not giving Valpo a home and home doesn't have much to do with Valpo. Butler barely plays ANY home and homes. Last year Butler played one OOC road team, and that was to a non-tournamemt team in which they lost to. The year prior Butler played two ooc road games, both to non tournament teams, and lost one of those to Indiana State... and I'm guessing that was a holdover from the Horizon/A10.

I don't blame the mediocre power conference teams avoiding road games. Road games are tough, and the selection committee doesn't reward teams that win on the road. I would say Butler is lucky they got out of mid-major land at the right time, but relevance scales with expectations... really a discussion for a different time.

[EddieCabot]

No one here likes the Non-d1s but they don't count against the rpi.

This is a good point.  I think Coach Gore mentioned this when talking about the challenges of scheduling (maybe on USH?).  I hope there aren't as many in the future, but until better DIs are willing to play in the ARC, you may see one or two on the schedule.

The MVC-MWC challenge really helps.  I hope the MVC works to get another "challenge" series with the A-10 or even the MAC.  Also, adding a team and going to a 20 game conference schedule would also take the pressure of OOC scheduling.

[valpotx]

My assumption is that we would take a buy game from Butler in a heartbeat.  Butler is too scared to offer such a thing...BUCK FUTLER FOREVER!

[nkvu]

Like it or not Butler has behaved like every mid major program that has managed to climb out of the mid major ranks. That is to immediately forget where they came from and play the P-5 game. That is schedule to their advantage. Play no games against a mid major that they could possibly lose. Play no games against mid majors away.

Realistically, Butler was the only mid major from Indiana that could do this in my opinion. They are the only (that anyone cares about) college team in the state's major metropolitan area, Indianapolis. They have the venue with the most tradition in the state, Hinkle. What is surprising to me is that it took them as long as it did to make it to big boy status.

So now Indiana has four major men's b-ball programs, IU, Purdue, ND, and Butler, and four upper tier mid-majors, Valpo, Ball State, Evansville, and Indiana State. My fantasy as an ex pat Hoosier would be a two day tournament played in Indianapolis where each of the four P-5 teams would play two games against two of the four mid major teams, playing the other two the next year. But I know that will never happen as the P-5 teams would stand to lose more with a loss than they would gain with a win, so they would never risk it. It is only in the NCAA tournament (with a few true upsets ooc) where mid majors get any possibility of a fair chance to knock off one of the big boys. This year's tournament, as exciting as it was, will only reinforce the P-5 reluctance to give a good mid-major team a fair shot in an out of conference game.

So no, I don't expect Butler to ever give us a home and home series. We can only hope to catch them in the NCAA tournament if the stars align.

[EddieCabot]

Lincoln Memorial (who??)

[VULB#62]

Like it or not Butler has behaved like every mid major program that has managed to climb out of the mid major ranks. That is to immediately forget where they came from and play the P-5 game. That is schedule to their advantage. Play no games against a mid major that they could possibly lose. Play no games against mid majors away.

Realistically, Butler was the only mid major from Indiana that could do this in my opinion. They are the only (that anyone cares about) college team in the state's major metropolitan area, Indianapolis. They have the venue with the most tradition in the state, Hinkle. What is surprising to me is that it took them as long as it did to make it to big boy status.

So now Indiana has four major men's b-ball programs, IU, Purdue, ND, and Butler, and four upper tier mid-majors, Valpo, Ball State, Evansville, and Indiana State. My fantasy as an ex pat Hoosier would be a two day tournament played in Indianapolis where each of the four P-5 teams would play two games against two of the four mid major teams, playing the other two the next year. But I know that will never happen as the P-5 teams would stand to lose more with a loss than they would gain with a win, so they would never risk it. It is only in the NCAA tournament (with a few true upsets ooc) where mid majors get any possibility of a fair chance to knock off one of the big boys. This year's tournament, as exciting as it was, will only reinforce the P-5 reluctance to give a good mid-major team a fair shot in an out of conference game.

So no, I don't expect Butler to ever give us a home and home series. We can only hope to catch them in the NCAA tournament if the stars align.

......... Or in a pre-conference schedule neutral site tournament where Butler does not have a choice.

[VU2014]

My assumption is that we would take a buy game from Butler in a heartbeat.  Butler is too scared to offer such a thing...BUCK FUTLER FOREVER!

I bet we could do buy game with them but if I were the coaching staff or AD I'd turn it down. If we play them I'd only want it to be in a series H-&-H, maybe a 2-for-1 or on a neutral site tournament.

[SanityLost17]

No one here likes the Non-d1s but they don't count against the rpi.

This is a good point.  I think Coach Gore mentioned this when talking about the challenges of scheduling (maybe on USH?).  I hope there aren't as many in the future, but until better DIs are willing to play in the ARC, you may see one or two on the schedule.

The MVC-MWC challenge really helps.  I hope the MVC works to get another "challenge" series with the A-10 or even the MAC.  Also, adding a team and going to a 20 game conference schedule would also take the pressure of OOC scheduling.

Agree whole heartedly.   Continue MWC/MVC challenge, add a challenge with the A10, and expand to 11 teams (Murray State).    Win Win for the A10/MVC and I would love to play Murray twice a year.   This is the only way to beef up the schedule and get rid of bad D1's or non-D1's for most MVC teams because that is just the reality we live in. 

Want a tweak to make things more fun?  Can't get the A10 to play along?   Have all the MWC/MVC teams go to Vegas to play their games on a neutral court and give everyone 2 games instead of 1.   

[VU2014]

It sounds very likely that Murray won't be joining the MVC next season. They likely aren't going to join till they find the right 12th member with a proven track record.

I'd take a pass on the Conference challenge with the MAC. Too many mediocre teams in the MAC. I'd definitely be for a Conference Challenge with the A10 though, but the question is would the A10 be willing to have a challenge with us? The MWC/MVC challenge will never be played on a neutral court, nor should fans want it to be played on a neutral court. One of the perks of the challenge is guaranteeing a quality opponent at home every other year. What they should do is play all the MWC/MVC Challenge games in a one week span to make it feel like more of a competition and get more eyeballs on the games.

[VULB#62]

It sounds very likely that Murray won't be joining the MVC next season. They likely aren't going to join till they find the right 12th member with a proven track record.

I'd take a pass on the Conference challenge with the MAC. Too many mediocre teams in the MAC. I'd definitely be for a Conference Challenge with the A10 though, but the question is would the A10 be willing to have a challenge with us? The MWC/MVC challenge will never be played on a neutral court, nor should fans want it to be played on a neutral court. One of the perks of the challenge is guaranteeing a quality opponent at home every other year. What they should do is play all the MWC/MVC Challenge games in a one week span to make it feel like more of a competition and get more eyeballs on the games.

I like that.  Or even the same weekend.  On the same weekend it could be a great marketing package and would get good traction in the national sports media.

[ml2]

I just checked some old schedules and even being familiar with the situation I was surprised to the extent Valpo has been frozen out by the big Indiana programs. This is not relative toward their play with each other, but rather relative to their scheduling of the other in-state mid-majors.

Butler has played 9 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State twice, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice and Evansville twice) since they last played Valpo on March 3, 2012. Butler even played 4 of those 9 on the road - twice at Indiana State and once each at Ball State and Evansville.

Notre Dame has played 10 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State once, Indiana State twice, IUPUI once, Evansville once and IPFW five times) since they last played Valpo on January 4, 2003. Although UND did not play any of these on the road.

Finally, Indiana has played 17 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State six times, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice, Evansville three times and IPFW three times) since they last played Valpo on December 29, 2000. IU even played 5 of those 17 on the road - twice at Ball State and once each at Indiana State, Evansville and IPFW.

[VU2014]

Valpo has been a pretty good program the last 8 years other then a down years in 13-14 and 17-18 (still respectable teams) but I think that's what leads to teams not wanting to play us. It's risk vs reward for them. We'd return value most seasons in terms RPI but they don't want the PR risk of potentially losing to a Mid. Notre Dame probably won't be playing Ball State again for another 20-30 years after what happened last season. Same with IU playing Indiana State. Ball State's program is experiencing a nice little revival the last few seasons. I always look forward the Ball State game. I'm really looking forward to Ball State coming to Valpo next season. Not a fan of the Persons kid. I really want that win next season. I really hope that series continues every year.

[EddieCabot]

I just checked some old schedules and even being familiar with the situation I was surprised to the extent Valpo has been frozen out by the big Indiana programs. This is not relative toward their play with each other, but rather relative to their scheduling of the other in-state mid-majors.

Butler has played 9 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State twice, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice and Evansville twice) since they last played Valpo on March 3, 2012. Butler even played 4 of those 9 on the road - twice at Indiana State and once each at Ball State and Evansville.

Notre Dame has played 10 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State once, Indiana State twice, IUPUI once, Evansville once and IPFW five times) since they last played Valpo on January 4, 2003. Although UND did not play any of these on the road.

Finally, Indiana has played 17 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State six times, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice, Evansville three times and IPFW three times) since they last played Valpo on December 29, 2000. IU even played 5 of those 17 on the road - twice at Ball State and once each at Indiana State, Evansville and IPFW.

Those numbers are startling.  It really makes you wonder why those teams will play other Mids in Indiana, but not Valpo.     I really wish someone could explain that.   

[FWalum]

I just checked some old schedules and even being familiar with the situation I was surprised to the extent Valpo has been frozen out by the big Indiana programs. This is not relative toward their play with each other, but rather relative to their scheduling of the other in-state mid-majors.

Butler has played 9 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State twice, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice and Evansville twice) since they last played Valpo on March 3, 2012. Butler even played 4 of those 9 on the road - twice at Indiana State and once each at Ball State and Evansville.

Notre Dame has played 10 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State once, Indiana State twice, IUPUI once, Evansville once and IPFW five times) since they last played Valpo on January 4, 2003. Although UND did not play any of these on the road.

Finally, Indiana has played 17 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State six times, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice, Evansville three times and IPFW three times) since they last played Valpo on December 29, 2000. IU even played 5 of those 17 on the road - twice at Ball State and once each at Indiana State, Evansville and IPFW.

Those numbers are startling.  It really makes you wonder why those teams will play other Mids in Indiana, but not Valpo.     I really wish someone could explain that.   

I knew it was bad, but had no idea it was that bad. Hard to imagine that the Drew family created ill will among the Indiana schools. Seems strange that they would be that afraid of us as compared to some of the other schools. I doubt that IU will play Fort Wayne again in the near future after getting beat in consecutive years and humiliated at home.

[FieldGoodie05]

I just checked some old schedules and even being familiar with the situation I was surprised to the extent Valpo has been frozen out by the big Indiana programs. This is not relative toward their play with each other, but rather relative to their scheduling of the other in-state mid-majors.

Butler has played 9 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State twice, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice and Evansville twice) since they last played Valpo on March 3, 2012. Butler even played 4 of those 9 on the road - twice at Indiana State and once each at Ball State and Evansville.

Notre Dame has played 10 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State once, Indiana State twice, IUPUI once, Evansville once and IPFW five times) since they last played Valpo on January 4, 2003. Although UND did not play any of these on the road.

Finally, Indiana has played 17 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State six times, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice, Evansville three times and IPFW three times) since they last played Valpo on December 29, 2000. IU even played 5 of those 17 on the road - twice at Ball State and once each at Indiana State, Evansville and IPFW.

Those numbers are startling.  It really makes you wonder why those teams will play other Mids in Indiana, but not Valpo.     I really wish someone could explain that.   

Good research, thanks for sharing. 

I know I've had mixed feelings about the move to the MVC.  However, if my goal is to attract more P5 games (neutral site or H&H) then the move to The Valley makes that at least doable.  No more seasons where SOS/RPI fall off the cliff in conference play I suppose. (Though this doesn't change my trepidation in other regards).

I'd imagine some of those droughts are soon going to come to an end.

[ml2]

I should have added in my original post, that it did not apply to Purdue, who we have played 7 times since the year 2000. Including twice in Valpo.

[ml2]

I also thought it was amazing, given the relative proximity, that although Valpo and IU met on a neutral court in 2000, Valpo hasn't played in Bloomington since 1956. Also IU is the only one of the other 9 D1 schools in Indiana to have never played at Valpo - although Notre Dame hasn't since 1991, and likely never will again.

[bigmosmithfan1]

Butler has played 9 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State twice

And the BSU thing is misleading, because that was finishing up a long-term contract that began when Butler was still in the HL.  They refuse to play BSU anywhere now, despite BSU helping to provide their largest home gate pretty much every other year until the mid-2000s.