Joe Burton Suspended

[talksalot]

How do we know something like that didn't happen to Joe?

FERPA

"There will be no further comment"

although, I did suggest to Paul that a non-student-specific conversation with someone in the academic support team from athletics might make an interesting segment on Union Street Hoops.... to discuss the process.

[nkvu]

How do we know something like that didn't happen to Joe?

FERPA

"There will be no further comment"

although, I did suggest to Paul that a non-student-specific conversation with someone in the academic support team from athletics might make an interesting segment on Union Street Hoops.... to discuss the process.

I would be interested in listening to that discussion.

[JD24]

I don't quite get this. A guy transfers to Valpo.  He sits out a year and apparently makes enough grades to complete the transfer year. Then in his first semester playing he can't make grades?  Were the coaches not on top of this?  Did he just not do the work and somehow the coaches didn't know?  Or was he simply not able to hack it in the classroom?  Given that Valpo doesn't have North Carolina type bunny classes that can keep a guy eligible if he can sign his name to a blank piece of paper.  I mean a guy can be a great athlete but just not have it for a course. I had one class my Sophmore year that just kicked my butt big time. I withdrew rather than fail and made some course adjustments the next semester that allowed me to go on and get my degree. How do we know something like that didn't happen to Joe?  One course could have made all the difference for him this year. Doesn't mean he let himself or the team down. Not everybody sails smoothly through to their B.A. or B.S.  But the coaching staff should have been on this to know if he was struggling, and with a fallback plan that would keep him eligible without compromising achedemic standards.

I'm a believer in the simplest answer. The kid couldn't hack the academics. For some, it's a lot easier to blame some outside force such as the coaching staff. I'll go with simple.

[FieldGoodie05]

Anyone else wondering if Burton officially quit leading up to the MSU game?  It's pure speculation but Coach said Bakari had a bad (not direct quote) day yesterday.

They appeared to be quite close, no? 

Only reason I find that odd is that THE WHOLE TEAM should be having a "bad" day, not just Bakari.

[FieldGoodie05]

Also, how about a 10-game stretch with no drama? (No new injuries or mono or academic discipline)

[VU2014]

Anyone else wondering if Burton officially quit leading up to the MSU game?  It's pure speculation but Coach said Bakari had a bad (not direct quote) day yesterday.

They appeared to be quite close, no? 

Only reason I find that odd is that THE WHOLE TEAM should be having a "bad" day, not just Bakari.

Maybe Joe quit or was forced off the team for academic reasons? I'm not sure. Chairback said he thinks he's not coming back. I know Bakari was very close to Joe so maybe he was taking it harder then others. Paul also mentioned Bakari was sick yesterday, which could have played a role in his poor play. Coach Lottich said he was dealing with something in his personal life also.

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/947601332239847425
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/947607550551318528

[M]

Did you watch the game??? The whole team had a bad day yesterday!

[Just Sayin]

I don't quite get this. A guy transfers to Valpo.  He sits out a year and apparently makes enough grades to complete the transfer year. Then in his first semester playing he can't make grades?  Were the coaches not on top of this?  Did he just not do the work and somehow the coaches didn't know?  Or was he simply not able to hack it in the classroom?  Given that Valpo doesn't have North Carolina type bunny classes that can keep a guy eligible if he can sign his name to a blank piece of paper.  I mean a guy can be a great athlete but just not have it for a course.

I had one class my Sophmore year that just kicked my butt big time. I withdrew rather than fail and made some course adjustments the next semester that allowed me to go on and get my degree. How do we know something like that didn't happen to Joe?  One course could have made all the difference for him this year. Doesn't mean he let himself or the team down. Not everybody sails smoothly through to their B.A. or B.S.  But the coaching staff should have been on this to know if he was struggling, and with a fallback plan that would keep him eligible without compromising achedemic standards.

If he would have put academics first ahead of playing basketball and spent whatever time was necessary to study and to succeed in the classroom, he may have had to miss going to a few practices. It would have been better to get suspended from the team for a game or two for missing practices than to lose his eligibility to play basketball due to failing to meet a required minimum GPA.

[EddieCabot]

I don't quite get this. A guy transfers to Valpo.  He sits out a year and apparently makes enough grades to complete the transfer year. Then in his first semester playing he can't make grades?  Were the coaches not on top of this?  Did he just not do the work and somehow the coaches didn't know?  Or was he simply not able to hack it in the classroom?  Given that Valpo doesn't have North Carolina type bunny classes that can keep a guy eligible if he can sign his name to a blank piece of paper.  I mean a guy can be a great athlete but just not have it for a course.

I had one class my Sophmore year that just kicked my butt big time. I withdrew rather than fail and made some course adjustments the next semester that allowed me to go on and get my degree. How do we know something like that didn't happen to Joe?  One course could have made all the difference for him this year. Doesn't mean he let himself or the team down. Not everybody sails smoothly through to their B.A. or B.S.  But the coaching staff should have been on this to know if he was struggling, and with a fallback plan that would keep him eligible without compromising achedemic standards.

If he would have put academics first ahead of playing basketball and spent whatever time was necessary to study and to succeed in the classroom, he may have had to miss going to a few practices. It would have been better to get suspended from the team for a game or two for missing practices than to lose his eligibility to play basketball due to failing to meet a required minimum GPA.

I refuse to speculate.  Until Valpo announces he is no longer with the team, I'm assuming he'll be back. 

[VU2014]

I refuse to speculate.  Until Valpo announces he is no longer with the team, I'm assuming he'll be back. 

Let's hope the University makes an announcement on his status one way or another. If he's ineligible the rest of the season tell the fans. If he leaves the
university tell the fans (but I guess we'll figure that out sooner or later without them having to tell us). But if Joe is back and is just sitting on the bench game after game, it'd be appropriate to nip the speculation in the bud. You can probably say a player is ineligible the rest of the season without breaking FERPA laws.

I hope he has a chance to be back but we've had so much bad luck the last few years it's made me pessimistic.

[Just Sayin]

I don't quite get this. A guy transfers to Valpo.  He sits out a year and apparently makes enough grades to complete the transfer year. Then in his first semester playing he can't make grades?  Were the coaches not on top of this?  Did he just not do the work and somehow the coaches didn't know?  Or was he simply not able to hack it in the classroom?  Given that Valpo doesn't have North Carolina type bunny classes that can keep a guy eligible if he can sign his name to a blank piece of paper.  I mean a guy can be a great athlete but just not have it for a course.

I had one class my Sophmore year that just kicked my butt big time. I withdrew rather than fail and made some course adjustments the next semester that allowed me to go on and get my degree. How do we know something like that didn't happen to Joe?  One course could have made all the difference for him this year. Doesn't mean he let himself or the team down. Not everybody sails smoothly through to their B.A. or B.S.  But the coaching staff should have been on this to know if he was struggling, and with a fallback plan that would keep him eligible without compromising achedemic standards.

If he would have put academics first ahead of playing basketball and spent whatever time was necessary to study and to succeed in the classroom, he may have had to miss going to a few practices. It would have been better to get suspended from the team for a game or two for missing practices than to lose his eligibility to play basketball due to failing to meet a required minimum GPA.

I refuse to speculate.  Until Valpo announces he is no longer with the team, I'm assuming he'll be back.

Was it speculation that he was suspended for academic reasons?

[EddieCabot]

I don't quite get this. A guy transfers to Valpo.  He sits out a year and apparently makes enough grades to complete the transfer year. Then in his first semester playing he can't make grades?  Were the coaches not on top of this?  Did he just not do the work and somehow the coaches didn't know?  Or was he simply not able to hack it in the classroom?  Given that Valpo doesn't have North Carolina type bunny classes that can keep a guy eligible if he can sign his name to a blank piece of paper.  I mean a guy can be a great athlete but just not have it for a course.

I had one class my Sophmore year that just kicked my butt big time. I withdrew rather than fail and made some course adjustments the next semester that allowed me to go on and get my degree. How do we know something like that didn't happen to Joe?  One course could have made all the difference for him this year. Doesn't mean he let himself or the team down. Not everybody sails smoothly through to their B.A. or B.S.  But the coaching staff should have been on this to know if he was struggling, and with a fallback plan that would keep him eligible without compromising achedemic standards.

If he would have put academics first ahead of playing basketball and spent whatever time was necessary to study and to succeed in the classroom, he may have had to miss going to a few practices. It would have been better to get suspended from the team for a game or two for missing practices than to lose his eligibility to play basketball due to failing to meet a required minimum GPA.

I refuse to speculate.  Until Valpo announces he is no longer with the team, I'm assuming he'll be back.

Was it speculation that he was suspended for academic reasons?

No, as that's what the press release said.  My comment was related to if/when he might be rejoining the team.  (Guess I shouldn't have quoted your comment.  )

[wh]

I don't quite get this. A guy transfers to Valpo.  He sits out a year and apparently makes enough grades to complete the transfer year. Then in his first semester playing he can't make grades?  Were the coaches not on top of this?  Did he just not do the work and somehow the coaches didn't know?  Or was he simply not able to hack it in the classroom?  Given that Valpo doesn't have North Carolina type bunny classes that can keep a guy eligible if he can sign his name to a blank piece of paper.  I mean a guy can be a great athlete but just not have it for a course.

I had one class my Sophmore year that just kicked my butt big time. I withdrew rather than fail and made some course adjustments the next semester that allowed me to go on and get my degree. How do we know something like that didn't happen to Joe?  One course could have made all the difference for him this year. Doesn't mean he let himself or the team down. Not everybody sails smoothly through to their B.A. or B.S.  But the coaching staff should have been on this to know if he was struggling, and with a fallback plan that would keep him eligible without compromising achedemic standards.

If he would have put academics first ahead of playing basketball and spent whatever time was necessary to study and to succeed in the classroom, he may have had to miss going to a few practices. It would have been better to get suspended from the team for a game or two for missing practices than to lose his eligibility to play basketball due to failing to meet a required minimum GPA.

I refuse to speculate.  Until Valpo announces he is no longer with the team, I'm assuming he'll be back. 

To your point, if he's gone and not coming back, there are much clearer terms than "suspended."  "Dismissed from the team" or "dismissed by the university," or "withdrew from classes" leave no doubt that it's permanent. "Suspended" sounds anything but permanent.

[valpopal]

I don't quite get this. A guy transfers to Valpo.  He sits out a year and apparently makes enough grades to complete the transfer year. Then in his first semester playing he can't make grades?  Were the coaches not on top of this?  Did he just not do the work and somehow the coaches didn't know?  Or was he simply not able to hack it in the classroom?  Given that Valpo doesn't have North Carolina type bunny classes that can keep a guy eligible if he can sign his name to a blank piece of paper.  I mean a guy can be a great athlete but just not have it for a course.

I had one class my Sophmore year that just kicked my butt big time. I withdrew rather than fail and made some course adjustments the next semester that allowed me to go on and get my degree. How do we know something like that didn't happen to Joe?  One course could have made all the difference for him this year. Doesn't mean he let himself or the team down. Not everybody sails smoothly through to their B.A. or B.S.  But the coaching staff should have been on this to know if he was struggling, and with a fallback plan that would keep him eligible without compromising achedemic standards.

If he would have put academics first ahead of playing basketball and spent whatever time was necessary to study and to succeed in the classroom, he may have had to miss going to a few practices. It would have been better to get suspended from the team for a game or two for missing practices than to lose his eligibility to play basketball due to failing to meet a required minimum GPA.

I refuse to speculate.  Until Valpo announces he is no longer with the team, I'm assuming he'll be back. 

To your point, if he's gone and not coming back, there are much clearer terms than "suspended."  "Dismissed from the team" or "dismissed by the university," or "withdrew from classes" leave no doubt that it's permanent. "Suspended" sounds anything but permanent.

Nobody knows the specifics about this situation. However, technically the word "suspended" may be the best term at this point. Whatever Burton's academic problem was when grades were submitted for fall semester, even if he were placed on probation, he should have already enrolled for spring courses back in November like all other students. Therefore, should he consider his options and wish to continue his education at Valpo, he need only show up on the first day of classes and, if on probation, attend under a structure of guidelines and with expectations set forth for him by the Dean's office. If Burton does not show up for classes on January 10, then the term can be changed from "suspended."

[VU2014]

Paul was on the 'The Journal Star Sportswriters' podcast and mentioned Joe Burton has an appeal coming up but it's pretty much a Hail Mary. Sounds like we will hear something pretty soon here.

http://www.pjstar.com/sports/20180102/listen-valley-views-with-valparaiso-beat-reporter-paul-oren

[valpopal]

Paul was on the 'The Journal Star Sportswriters' podcast and mentioned Joe Burton has an appeal coming up but it's pretty much a Hail Mary. Sounds like we will hear something pretty soon here.

http://www.pjstar.com/sports/20180102/listen-valley-views-with-valparaiso-beat-reporter-paul-oren

The following is just to offer information about the academic appeal process, not to be taken as specific to Burton. According to university rules, the first step in any appeal of a grade must be done informally between a student (with assistance from an academic advisor) and the faculty member before the end of the first full week of classes in the following semester. Usually, it can be done more quickly if the student and faculty member are available on campus. However, for a grade change or an incomplete to be given, the faculty member must be persuaded to "acknowledge an error, a misjudgment, or unfair bias has occurred." If no resolution satisfactory to the student happens at this point, there are other higher formal appeals allowed, but in almost all cases I believe the decision in this stage is upheld, and most situations are resolved through such student-faculty-advisor conversations. Again, this is just to provide general information about the academic appeal process.

[M]

Thanks for clearing that up.

[wh]

So a newspaper in Peoria gets more info from our beat writer then we've been given. Nice.

So someone who is supposedly one of us leaves the program's most ardent followers and passionate fans clueless as to what's going on, while we fret, worry, wonder and speculate for days/weeks on end. Suddenly out of the blue, that same someone publicly shares information pertinent to the situation with a complete outsider? Maybe that someone would care to explain. 

[Pgmado]

So someone who is supposedly one of us leaves the program's most ardent followers and passionate fans clueless as to what's going on, while we fret, worry, wonder and speculate for days/weeks on end. Suddenly out of the blue, that same someone publicly shares information pertinent to the situation with a complete outsider? Maybe that someone would care to explain. 

That someone has been waylaid by an upper respiratory infection and bronchitis the last week. I barely remember anything about the Missouri State game and I was in bed during the podcast interview I did. In other news, drugs are good!

From what I understand Burton is in the process of an appeal. What he is appealing, I have no idea. It's a pretty fine line for me to discuss anything open to academics given the two jobs I have. I've kicked quite a few tires at the NCAA level trying to figure out the reason why Adekoya could sit on the bench and Burton needs to be away from the team. Given the holiday week, I'm not surprised I haven't received any answers. I also haven't been as proactive in tracking them down, because, you know, upper respiratory infection. Valparaiso can provide no comment on this whole thing. It's been stressed to the reporters that Lottich won't (or can't) answer questions pertaining to Burton's situation. I suspect more will (or at least should) be known by the time Valparaiso hosts Southern Illinois on Saturday.

[VU2014]

Man this rough stretch with the team has made everyone testy (including myself sometimes). Let's cut Paul some slack. He was(is) sick, had a broken car wheel or something (mentioned it on the podcast), and he's on his winter break.

He's been on top of every story with this team and there have been a LOT that's happened to this program the last 20-24 months or so. We're lucky to have a dedicated beat reporter like Paul covering our team and also puts out a weekly podcast.

[EddieCabot]

General question for Paul or anyone else who may know the answer.  In the situations involving Burton this year and Adekoya last year, it seems that the university is unable to provide anything other than very vague explanations, citing privacy laws.  In fact, unless I missed something somewhere, most of us still don't know the underlying cause of the Adekoya eligibility issue.  Was it something he did?  Was it a compliance/paperwork issue?  Was the NCAA just on a witchhunt?  I really have no idea.  I'm not saying I have a right to know, but the lack of information certainly leads to a lot of speculation on the part of fans.

So my question is how these situations are different from the Jalen Hayes suspension issue a few months ago at Oakland?  In that situation, it felt like every minor detail (individual class grades, his cumulative GPA, his major and expected graduation date) of his academic record was being discussed by Hayes, the university, the staff and national media.  Is this because Hayes somehow waived his privacy rights in order to get his story out and put some pressure on the NCAA?

[VU2014]

If your interested in Paul's thoughts on the Joe situation, I'm just going to leave this here. He said he'd be shocked if Joe ever played another game in a Valpo Uniform. 

http://www.nwitimes.com/digital/audio/union-street-hoops/podcast-union-street-hoops-valpo-in-the-valley/audio_330854a0-f25d-11e7-8289-e74843b07c14.html

[NativeCheesehead]

So Joe becomes this decade's Tony Falu.

[agibson]

I don't quite get this. A guy transfers to Valpo.  He sits out a year and apparently makes enough grades to complete the transfer year. Then in his first semester playing he can't make grades?  Were the coaches not on top of this?  Did he just not do the work and somehow the coaches didn't know?  Or was he simply not able to hack it in the classroom?

As I outlined back in
http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=3050.msg92803#msg92803
it's a process.

Normally it takes at least two semesters of poor performance to receive an academic suspension. So, there's time to recover. Unfortunately, it doesn't always happen.

For students appealing academic suspensions from the College of Arts and Sciences the appeals meeting is normally the week before classes resume i.e. the week now ending. Students should probably now have been informed of the results.

I don't think the university's been specific about Joe's situation - maybe they're not allowed to be. But, their phrasing brings to mind the process that I outlined in the link above.

valpopal outlined another possible line of appeal, for individual course grades.

A student can presumably make any announcement they like about their own status. Other than that, I don't know if we should expect much. Maybe he's seen on the bench (or on the court, I guess!), or at games. Maybe he's seen at practice or on campus. Maybe he's not. I think universities do sometimes confirm whether or not a person is a student of said university, but I'm not even entirely sure about that.

[agibson]

General question for Paul or anyone else who may know the answer.  In the situations involving Burton this year and Adekoya last year, it seems that the university is unable to provide anything other than very vague explanations, citing privacy laws.  In fact, unless I missed something somewhere, most of us still don't know the underlying cause of the Adekoya eligibility issue.  Was it something he did?  Was it a compliance/paperwork issue?  Was the NCAA just on a witchhunt?  I really have no idea.  I'm not saying I have a right to know, but the lack of information certainly leads to a lot of speculation on the part of fans.

So my question is how these situations are different from the Jalen Hayes suspension issue a few months ago at Oakland?  In that situation, it felt like every minor detail (individual class grades, his cumulative GPA, his major and expected graduation date) of his academic record was being discussed by Hayes, the university, the staff and national media.  Is this because Hayes somehow waived his privacy rights in order to get his story out and put some pressure on the NCAA?

That's an interesting set of questions. I've not followed Hayes' cae, but I'm surprised to hear that Oakland provided so much detail. _Hayes_ can provide those kind of details. But, without him signing some kind of release I wouldn't expect anyone else to dish like that.

The lack of info on Adekoya's case did undoubtedly lead to a lot speculation on the part of the fans. I think a rough sketch, sort of a consensus story, became pretty clear on this message board. I don't think the university ever gave any details. I don't know that Jubril has either.

It seems
https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/pdf/ferpafaq.pdf
that universities are allowed to give out info like dates of attendance (presumably that includes the info about whether someone is/isn't enrolled) and "participation in officially recognized activities and sports".

That sounds about like what Valpo provides, albeit they're not always very timely about it. We've certainly seen student athletes disappear for stretches as long as a semester, maybe longer, with only a quiet announcement at the end, with few details.