Game #15 - Missouri State at the ARC December 31 3pm ESPN3 Home at Last

Just Sayin · December 31, 2017, 08:33:43 PM

They have looked crappy more than two games. Yes, Chicago State of MVC.

vu72 · December 31, 2017, 08:34:34 PM

I have calmed down. It still is a real mess. I do wonder if the team is feeling some degree of sickness. Was anything said on the radio? Bakari looked totally lost out there today. Even Tevonn had an off night and no doubt he will continue to get everyones full attention.

We got drilled by the conference #1 who had also beat Loyola on the road. They are the real deal, five seniors and five juniors. As for the Indiana State loss, on the road, they lost in overtime,also on the road, to Illinois State. Remember guys, three freshman, six sophomores, no Burton and no Kiser. Fazekas and Freeman-Liberty are on the way!!

justducky · December 31, 2017, 09:03:48 PM

Quote from: Just Sayin on December 31, 2017, 08:33:43 PMI have calmed down. It still is a real mess. I do wonder if the team is feeling some degree of sickness. Was anything said on the radio? Bakari looked totally lost out there today.

Something was mentioned on the WVUR postgame about Bakari being ill for a couple days but I caught no details. On the positive side only one TO each on Smits and Sorolla and I don't think Hazen had any.

With everybody healthy it could have been much more competitive maybe even a near win, but that is as far as I can go.

Both confidence and defeatism are contagious. This ship needs to be tuned quickly. Hmmmm maybe it needs to be turned as well-- can't hurt.

VUGrad1314 · December 31, 2017, 09:58:58 PM

Quote from: vu72 on December 31, 2017, 08:34:34 PM
I have calmed down. It still is a real mess. I do wonder if the team is feeling some degree of sickness. Was anything said on the radio? Bakari looked totally lost out there today. Even Tevonn had an off night and no doubt he will continue to get everyones full attention.

We got drilled by the conference #1 who had also beat Loyola on the road. They are the real deal, five seniors and five juniors. As for the Indiana State loss, on the road, they lost in overtime,a;so on the road, to Illinois State. Remember guys, three freshman, six sophomores, no Burton and no Kiser. Fazekas and Freeman-Liberty are on the way!!

Thank you for that dose of perspective . It is welcome and needed and helped me a lot. Still, the we're a young team argument even if it is true and valid starts to ring a little hollow right about now. We're at the point of the season where these kids are closer in terms of # of games played or to be played to the start of next year and being the next year up the chain than we are to the start of the season. At what point do these guys stop looking like they've never run an offensive set before? At what point do we begin to see obvious signs of growth improvement and forward momentum? I sure hope we don't have to wait until Fazekas and Freeman-Liberty take the court next year to begin to see at least some of this team's potential.

valpotx · December 31, 2017, 11:30:13 PM

Our program is still in very good hands, and we are nowhere near being the Chicago State of the MVC. All of my posts are specific to this year's team, which will be much improved next year. However, that doesn't mean that each of these embarrassing losses makes me feel good about this season. These guys are not shooting with any confidence, whatsoever. How many airballs have we thrown up this year? That is just inexcusable for D-1 players.

nkvu · January 01, 2018, 12:44:10 AM

I will confess to some irrational exuberance after the first 8 games. In those games the team looked really athletic on the perimeter. But that got exposed really quickly when the level of competition rose. Reality stepped in when Burton left and took most of our 3 point shooting with him. Our perimeter players are not that quick. None of them can consistantly take their man off the dribble. Evelyn just does not seem that quick to me. Watching Joseph try to post up bigger defenders is just painfull. Walker tries to take the ball to the rack but he is getting most of the defensive attention, and given the MVC referee's tendency to call charges on flops, his attempts to go to the rim too often result in offensive foul calls.

I pretty much give freshman and first year transfers a pass. At the same time none of them have given me any sense that they have Rowdy, let alone Peters potential. And if we are going to compete in the MVC we are going to have to have at least one or two players of that caliber every year!

I have read a number of times on this board that a player's biggest improvement is between his freshman and sophomore years. If that's so then why do Jay and Smits look so lost most of the time? Jay has no idea what to do with the ball other than to hand it off. Smits at least does try to score occasionally though he is as likely to be called for an offensive foul (after a flop) as to get a shot off. While both can catch the ball better than Vasil at this stage, neither will ever be close to the defender Vashill was. Some years ago I heard a commentator characterize foreign bigs as "pillows". I would put both of our 7 footers in that category right now.

I hope the team can use this season to improve. But quite frankly, I just don't see the talent that will enable us to be more than a bottom dweller in the MVC for some years to come.

VU2014 · January 01, 2018, 01:15:44 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M24IniGfFw

underdawg · January 01, 2018, 02:45:48 AM

It was mentioned in one of the posts on this thread that several of your kids were sick--that could be. SIU had one kid completely out with the flu and two played with flu symptoms--one, Armon Fletcher still scored a double double. But with the shocking news that Thik Bol would be out for the rest of the year, you can guess, moral was low and we let Drake zoom to a 16 point lead in the half. Miraculously we actually had a chance to win and/ or tie in regulation with two three point attempts one of which rimmed in and then out.

Bol was expected to play, but his knee did not react to practice very well Saturday--and so they shut him down. What I'm trying to say is hang in there. THis league is not going to have Drake and Il State at the top in the end. By the way someone on your board said MSU won two on the road--no, their first win over Loyola was at Springfield.

vu72 · January 01, 2018, 07:46:27 AM

Well with Bakari sick and Joe out, did we really think we had a chance? Sure wish Matt would stop wearing those ill fitted shirts! Looks like he lost 30 pounds and can't afford to buy new ones!

oklahomamick · January 01, 2018, 08:32:11 AM

Matt was our third choice....on top of that I don't know if he's been underneath a good seasoned head coach for a long time that would pass down the knowledge. He may have been promoted too soon.

FieldGoodie05 · January 01, 2018, 08:45:13 AM

Quote from: vu72 on January 01, 2018, 07:46:27 AM
Well with Bakari sick and Joe out, did we really think we had a chance? Sure wish Matt would stop wearing those ill fitted shirts! Looks like he lost 30 pounds and can't afford to buy new ones!

Are you a woman?

EddieCabot · January 01, 2018, 09:05:14 AM

Quote from: vu72 on December 31, 2017, 04:50:36 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 31, 2017, 04:32:08 PM
Who are the announcers? I need names emails and numbers. 4-0 last 4 games against them

Apparently MSU can have their announcers doing both home and away games. Nice...for their fans. These dopes are wondering why we started 8-0 and now aren't so good. Apparently forgot Joe Burton isn't on the team.

This makes no sense and just isn't fair. Can someone explain why Valpo announcers aren't on TV for a game in Valpo? I thought Valpo got disrespected by LeCrone and the Horizon, but the MVC is doing the same thing. Hopefully, the AD and President are on the phone to the MVC offices today to chew some ass!

EddieCabot · January 01, 2018, 09:26:13 AM

Quote from: vu72 on December 31, 2017, 08:34:34 PMRemember guys, three freshman, six sophomores, no Burton and no Kiser. Fazekas and Freeman-Liberty are on the way!!

Valpo is very young and is forced to play even younger without Burton. I don't see much hope for the remainder of the MVC season if Joe doesn't return.

Valpo will still be young next season, with no seniors and with two new starters in Fazekas and Freeman-Liberty. I think it will definitely take time to those new players to gel with the team. Also, it will be interesting to see who steps forward as leaders when Max and Tevonn are gone. Could be a struggle early, followed by a solid MVC showing as players adjust to new roles. I think '19-'20 may be the season this team really steps forward and wins the MVC and/or challenges for an at-large bid. Patience.

On a side note, I hope the staff sees things the same way and is already working on a killer non-conference schedule for '19-'20, because Valpo will be loaded.

valpo64 · January 01, 2018, 09:42:06 AM

I can't remember any team in recent times that was more ineffective and passive on offense than this year's team. We set picks to free a guy up to head to the half-court line. No continuity on offense. No one seems to be looking for an opportunity to score. I can't believe we ended up scoring 50 points after scoring 4 in the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half. One of the most disappointing performances that I can remember. Yesterday was the first time I have left a game with 3 minutes to go. I can't believe I drove over 100 miles to watch that fiasco. Most of the guys appeared to care less about the game. I sure hope next week end will be a BIG improvement, at least in effort produced.

M · January 01, 2018, 09:52:35 AM

Can anyone explain why at the end of the first half we didn't go for a 2 for 1? We had the ball with something like 50 seconds left and settled for a last second drive by Max (who got rejected)

I can live with inexperienced players. I can't live with poor schemes, game planning, and little effort on the rebounding.

EddieCabot · January 01, 2018, 10:04:13 AM

Quote from: valpotx on December 31, 2017, 04:41:18 PM
Big congrats to Missouri State in catching us in a down year with a litany of FR/SOs, with a very experienced team on their side. They can be happy with their 2 wins that they will get this year, while I will take our 4 wins over the last 5 years.

I remember that one year when Valpo beat MSU in the ARC and Dick Vitale was there. That was awesome.

VU2014 · January 01, 2018, 12:53:06 PM

Sounds like Javon Freeman-Liberty was at the ARC yesterday. Not the best game to take in... He's going to be a big part of our program.
https://twitter.com/AlBillets/status/947901322518519809

usc4valpo · January 01, 2018, 01:44:13 PM

Valpo football will have a better record that Valpo hoops this year. When was the last time that happened?

justducky · January 01, 2018, 02:15:38 PM

Quote from: nkvu on January 01, 2018, 12:44:10 AMOur perimeter players are not that quick. None of them can consistantly take their man off the dribble. Evelyn just does not seem that quick to me.

Evelyn, McMillan, Golder even Kiser are quick enough but all need further practice and experience to improve and refine their ball handling control and attack skills. Bradford seems tentative now maybe because of some poor "attack the basket" decisions in the past. With Hazen who knows? Once defenders back off and invite you to take the shot any chance of driving around them is gone (unless you have Erik Buggs speed).

Quote from: nkvu on January 01, 2018, 12:44:10 AMwhy do Jay and Smits look so lost most of the time? Jay has no idea what to do with the ball other than to hand it off. Smits at least does try to score occasionally

Jays' defenders are inviting him to pivot, shoot or ball fake or attack like Smits with 2 and 3 bounce moves followed by runners or bank shots. We have to figure out a way for him to exploit this because the defensive spacing is helping to shut down our entire offensive flow. With every mistake Derrik makes attacking the basket he is learning something in the process. Because we are in a rebuilding year Jay and Derrik should be given enormous latitude to experiment and refine their 12' and in games. What have we got to lose?

Somebody correct me if I missed it but for the minutes that Jay, Derrik or Marten were on the floor simultaneously, I spotted nothing I would classify in the dual post, two center classification (no new wrinkles). Since nothing else is working this should also fall into the "what have we got to lose?" category. If Smits, Sorrola, and Linssen
can develop then next year can still be special. If they can not make that leap I am not certain the team can either.

vu72 · January 01, 2018, 03:14:42 PM

I would expect to see more Martin Linnsen as the season moves along. He is much quicker than Derrik or J and showed a mid-range last night. A decent free throw shooter and not afraid to bang down low.

justducky · January 01, 2018, 05:03:04 PM

Quote from: vu72 on January 01, 2018, 03:14:42 PMI would expect to see more Martin Linnsen as the season moves along. He is much quicker than Derrik or J and showed a mid-range last night.

I don't know if he is the quickest of the 3 or just just looks like he is hustling harder. All 3 of these guys need to develop their mid range games because if they can hit some 12 footers and complete 2 and 3 dribble moves to the basket, then simple undoubled post moves should be a piece of cake. At some point in the future I would also expect Derrik to be allowed to launch a few open top of the key 3 pointers but lets not confuse todays real needs with tomorrows distant hopes. I know it is hard to imagine Jay, Derrik or Marten taking baby steps but they all need to be able to toddle before they can walk and walk before they can run.

My general gut feeling is that McMillan, Golder, and Evelyn will show huge improvements by 18-19. JINORMOUSE!

So will we be good next year or REALLY GOOD? The answer to that may depend on Jay, Marten, Derrik and their speeds of development.

bbtds · January 01, 2018, 05:36:07 PM

Quote from: valpolaw on December 31, 2017, 05:04:34 PMthese announcers

Quote from: valpolaw on December 31, 2017, 05:04:34 PMthey just think we are weak and the horizon league is weak.

We are weak and the Horizon League is weak. This message board makes do with making excuses for poor performances but this team will not be any better until Tevonn gains more strength. Then Tevonn will play better but it won't be enough to win. Our leading scorer was "soft" Derrik Smits until Max Joseph finally realized that his three point shooting was as good as running a half court set. Good for Max but it isn't enough that late in the game.

EddieCabot · January 02, 2018, 08:50:10 PM

Quote from: EddieCabot on January 01, 2018, 10:04:13 AM
Quote from: valpotx on December 31, 2017, 04:41:18 PM
Big congrats to Missouri State in catching us in a down year with a litany of FR/SOs, with a very experienced team on their side. They can be happy with their 2 wins that they will get this year, while I will take our 4 wins over the last 5 years.

I remember that one year when Valpo beat MSU in the ARC and Dick Vitale was there. That was awesome.

I just listened to the podcast Paul did with the Bradley guy and Paul mentioned this game and how awesome it was to have Dick Vitale there.