At Bradley Jan 3 7:00 PM CST Wardle we do now?

[wh]

Didn't they take an 11 point deficit and erase that?

You mean the 11 point deficit at the beginning of the game - when they were still fresh, while they were still working hard on the defensive end, before they started committing stupid, reach-in fouls non-stop (the sign of a team that lacks stamina/mental toughness), before they got into foul trouble of their own making?  Yep, they sure did.

[AranJacobs]

I think we all need to calm down. First year in a new conference, just went through a huge roster change, most of the players are still young, freshmen and sophomores. After that timeout after going down 11-0 last night, they changed the offense up including more drives and passes instead of just stalling around the three point line, and I think that is of great importance and I think it already started to show last night. the big problem last year was how every time down the court we were getting touch fouls and we did't even have a cane to play defense as they were going to the free throw line every possession because of a stupid rebounding foul. I think we will see that diminish as the year moves on and especially into next year. A lot of these players are seeing their first major minutes of college basketball and are only 16 games into their first years as major producers on their teams. Although Smits is not getting any passes from me because he is in third year of college, I still think he will get better at holding onto the ball, as will Sorolla, eventually, but I would like to see that sooner than later although I know it is a process as we saw with Vashil. Next year I don't have any doubt in my mind that we will be a solid team and much better than this year.

[M]

Yup, that's the lead. Right at the beginning when it would've been easy to throw it in as a lost cause.

Hopefully a better start to the game on Saturday.

[valpo64]

It never ceases to amaze me how little production, including defense, offense and REBOUNDING, that we get from THREE GUYS WHO ARE ABOUT 7 FEET TALL.

[EddieCabot]

I think we all need to calm down. First year in a new conference, just went through a huge roster change, most of the players are still young, freshmen and sophomores.

As Coach L has pointed out before/during/after recent games, you just can't expect a team of 19 year-olds right out of high school to compete with all these older teams.  Until these guys get older, there's really not much the coaching staff can do.

[VULB#62]

C'mon man. 19 year olds?  Tevonn and Max are 19?  Derrik and Jay are 19? Joe, 19? (If he returns). Bakari 19. These are men. Valpo supposedly recruits intelligent players. Too many excuses. Hell, Michigan went to the NCAA final 4 with five freshman. It is talent + attitiude + coaching. Simple as that.

I can't judge BB talent, but many on this board say we have it.

As for attitude, lately even I have observed a lack of cohesiveness and intensity. Big difference from last year where the team appeared to me to have an innate feel for each player's spacing, location and strengths. That is attitude combined with coaching. Do your job!  With the exception of Marty and Markus most of the front liners have been around a while.

Coaching-wise, there  does not appear to me to be a visible offensive "system" (if that is what you call it in BB) that this team relies upon to settle into. And as mentioned in previous posts, and alluded to under attitude, there appears to be a lack of a killer instinct especially in our bigs.

Finally, I always thought that the  PG was the QB of a basketball team, and therefore, as the QB/PG goes, so goes the team. Is Bakari giving us the intelligent floor leadership we require?

[Just Sayin]

C'mon man. 19 year olds?  Tevonn and Max are 19?  Derrik and Jay are 19? Joe, 19? (If he returns). Bakari 19. These are men. Valpo supposedly recruits intelligent players. Too many excuses. Hell, Michigan went to the NCAA final 4 with five freshman. It is talent + attitiude + coaching. Simple as that.

I can't judge BB talent, but many on this board say we have it.

As for attitude, lately even I have observed a lack of cohesiveness and intensity. Big difference from last year where the team appeared to me to have an innate feel for each player's spacing, location and strengths. That is attitude combined with coaching. Do your job!  With the exception of Marty and Markus most of the front liners have been around a while.

Coaching-wise, there  does not appear to me to be a visible offensive "system" (if that is what you call it in BB) that this team relies upon to settle into. And as mentioned in previous posts, and alluded to under attitude, there appears to be a lack of a killer instinct especially in our bigs.

Finally, I always thought that the  PG was the QB of a basketball team, and therefore, as the QB/PG goes, so goes the team. Is Bakari giving us the intelligent floor leadership we require?

The five true freshman Kentucky players who won the national championship a few years back were just 19-year olds.

[VUGrad1314]

Criticize the slow starts the offensive struggles the weakness both physical and mental of our 7 footers the lack of cohesiveness etc. all you want but don't use the "Fab 5" (which Michigan cheated to get anyway ) or Calipari's recruits as if that's attainable for Valpo. A bunch of McDonald's All-American five star recruits playing at aP5 school with a $10million+ budget  is going to look quite a bit different especially as freshmen than a bunch of 2-4 star kids at a mid major with a budget around $3million. I hope your mention of them was sarcastic.

[vu72]

I think we all need to calm down. First year in a new conference, just went through a huge roster change, most of the players are still young, freshmen and sophomores.

As Coach L has pointed out before/during/after recent games, you just can't expect a team of 19 year-olds right out of high school to compete with all these older teams.  Until these guys get older, there's really not much the coaching staff can do.

You guys all took Eddie's bait! 

[VULB#62]

Criticize the slow starts the offensive struggles the weakness both physical and mental of our 7 footers the lack of cohesiveness etc. all you want but don't use the "Fab 5" (which Michigan cheated to get anyway ) or Calipari's recruits as if that's attainable for Valpo. A bunch of McDonald's All-American five star recruits playing at aP5 school with a $10million+ budget  is going to look quite a bit different especially as freshmen than a bunch of 2-4 star kids at a mid major with a budget around $3million. I hope your mention of them was sarcastic.

It is all relative to whatever level you're at.  My point -- talent (appropriate to level of competition) + attitude (read: intensity and adherence to a team's style) + coaching (providing that style, proper techniques and demanding intensity) = constant improvement and success.  And I would submit that talent, while certainly necessary, could even be less than optimum if the attitude and coaching is there to overcome, to an extent, the talent deficiency.   

[valpo64]

We are overdue to get things together for a nice win...maybe this Saturday.

[JD24]

C'mon man. 19 year olds?  Tevonn and Max are 19?  Derrik and Jay are 19? Joe, 19? (If he returns). Bakari 19. These are men. Valpo supposedly recruits intelligent players. Too many excuses. Hell, Michigan went to the NCAA final 4 with five freshman. It is talent + attitiude + coaching. Simple as that. I can't judge BB talent, but many on this board say we have it. As for attitude, lately even I have observed a lack of cohesiveness and intensity. Big difference from last year where the team appeared to me to have an innate feel for each player's spacing, location and strengths. That is attitude combined with coaching. Do your job!  With the exception of Marty and Markus most of the front liners have been around a while. Coaching-wise, there  does not appear to me to be a visible offensive "system" (if that is what you call it in BB) that this team relies upon to settle into. And as mentioned in previous posts, and alluded to under attitude, there appears to be a lack of a killer instinct especially in our bigs. Finally, I always thought that the  PG was the QB of a basketball team, and therefore, as the QB/PG goes, so goes the team. Is Bakari giving us the intelligent floor leadership we require?

This team is not very talented. This has been an issue hidden by Alec Peters over the last few years but is frighteningly obvious this season.

[Valpo89]

This team is not very talented. This has been an issue hidden by Alec Peters over the last few years but is frighteningly obvious this season.

That's a good point. As good as Tevonn is, maybe he's better as a No. 2 or 3 option on a team. He's not a No. 1.

[wh]

This team is not very talented. This has been an issue hidden by Alec Peters over the last few years but is frighteningly obvious this season.

That's a good point. As good as Tevonn is, maybe he's better as a No. 2 or 3 option on a team. He's not a No. 1.

At least Alec had Tevonn. Tevonn has no one.

[VU2014]

This team is not very talented. This has been an issue hidden by Alec Peters over the last few years but is frighteningly obvious this season.

That's a good point. As good as Tevonn is, maybe he's better as a No. 2 or 3 option on a team. He's not a No. 1.

It wasn't just Alec. We graduated 2 other pros that are playing in high level euro leagues, that were very talented players. Then Vashil the year before.

I'd agree that Tevonn probably isn't an ideal #1 on a team, he's ideally a great #3 on borderline at-large mid-major teams. How spoiled were we that he was the #3 and #4 option at times the last few previous seasons.

I think this 2017-2018 definitely has talent but its very raw and not developed yet (they are mostly FR/SO) other then Tevonn. Max is extremely important to this team but he is ideally a great glue-guy/role player and he's been thrust into a key player this season. Max has stepped up this year though and I've been very pleased with how he's stepped up for us on and off the court. I'm really excited about Mileek and Linssen's futures. Those two could develop into really nice players. Bakari is another guy who can develop into a really dynamic distributor. There is no denying Joe was talented and was starting hit his stride a little before the suspension, but who knows what his future holds right now.

I'm just not sure if we have a future Alec Peters or Ryan Broekhoff on this active roster but I don't buy that this roster doesn't have talent its just not developed yet. There is definitely lots of future potential here but it probably won't come to fruition this season. Plus all these parts have little amount of D1 minutes under their belts.

[FieldGoodie05]

This team is not very talented. This has been an issue hidden by Alec Peters over the last few years but is frighteningly obvious this season.

That's a good point. As good as Tevonn is, maybe he's better as a No. 2 or 3 option on a team. He's not a No. 1.

It wasn't just Alec. We graduated 2 other pros that are playing in high level euro leagues, that were very talented players. Then Vashil the year before.

I'd agree that Tevonn probably isn't an ideal #1 on a team, he's ideally a great #3 on borderline at-large mid-major teams. How spoiled were we that he was the #3 and #4 option at times the last few previous seasons.

I think this 2017-2018 definitely has talent but it very raw and not developed yet other then Tevonn. Max is extremely important to this team but he is ideally a great glue-guy/role player and he's been thrust into a key player this season. Max has stepped up this year though and I've been very please with how he's stepped up for us on and off the court. I'm really excited about Mileek and Linssen's futures. Those two could develop into really nice players. Bakari is another guy who can develop into a really dynamic distributor. There is no denying Joe was talented and was starting hit his stride a little before the suspension, but who knows what his future holds right now.

I'm just not sure if we have a future Alec Peters or Ryan Broekhoff on this active roster but I don't buy that this roster doesn't have talent its just not developed yet. There is definitely lots of future potential here but it probably won't come to fruition this season. Plus all these parts have little amount of D1 minutes under their belts.

I agree with "2014" on most points here.  I'd add that having an Alec is not necessary, rather only a really nice cherry on top.

Does UNI graduate NBA drafts in every 4-year class?  Did Wichita State?  Both programs generally have 4 Tevonn's playing as role players.  That may be overstated, but my thought is that depth at scoring is far more important than NBA draft level guys like Peters.

If we get another talent like him in the next 4-years I'd be surprised.  But I'll take 3 guys with his dedication and morals.

[VUGrad1314]

This team is not very talented. This has been an issue hidden by Alec Peters over the last few years but is frighteningly obvious this season.

That's a good point. As good as Tevonn is, maybe he's better as a No. 2 or 3 option on a team. He's not a No. 1.

It wasn't just Alec. We graduated 2 other pros that are playing in high level euro leagues, that were very talented players. Then Vashil the year before. I'd agree that Tevonn probably isn't an ideal #1 on a team, he's ideally a great #3 on borderline at-large mid-major teams. How spoiled were we that he was the #3 and #4 option at times the last few previous seasons. I think this 2017-2018 definitely has talent but its very raw and not developed yet (they are mostly FR/SO) other then Tevonn. Max is extremely important to this team but he is ideally a great glue-guy/role player and he's been thrust into a key player this season. Max has stepped up this year though and I've been very pleased with how he's stepped up for us on and off the court. I'm really excited about Mileek and Linssen's futures. Those two could develop into really nice players. Bakari is another guy who can develop into a really dynamic distributor. There is no denying Joe was talented and was starting hit his stride a little before the suspension, but who knows what his future holds right now. I'm just not sure if we have a future Alec Peters or Ryan Broekhoff on this active roster but I don't buy that this roster doesn't have talent its just not developed yet. There is definitely lots of future potential here but it probably won't come to fruition this season. Plus all these parts have little amount of D1 minutes under their belts.

I think the next great Valpo player is indeed on the roster. He's just not active yet. His name is Ryan Fazekas. Another player I have high hopes for is currently in High School at Whitney-Young finishing up his senior year He's called Javon Freeman-Liberty. If we don't have talent now we'll have it soon. And plenty of it.

[VU2014]

I think the next great Valpo player is indeed on the roster. He's just not active yet. His name is Ryan Fazekas. Another player I have high hopes for is currently in High School at Whitney-Young finishing up his senior year He's called Javon Freeman-Liberty. If we don't have talent now we'll have it soon. And plenty of it.

Ryan will definitely be huge. Some MUCH needed outside shooting that will cause the defenders to not cheat on defense and it will give those twin towers more room to operate in the paint. Could you imagine him and Joe on the court at the same time next season. 2 stud 3 point shooters, Javon is a capable 3 pt shooter from what I've heard but his bread butter is slashing to the hoop. Bakari will have another year under his belt (his 1st full season since his junior year of HS). Bring Golder off the bench next season. Just as important these guys would have a full season playing together under their belt.

I really like our prospects next season better then this season, particularly if Joe comes back for his senior year.

[Just Sayin]

Criticize the slow starts the offensive struggles the weakness both physical and mental of our 7 footers the lack of cohesiveness etc. all you want but don't use the "Fab 5" (which Michigan cheated to get anyway ) or Calipari's recruits as if that's attainable for Valpo. A bunch of McDonald's All-American five star recruits playing at aP5 school with a $10million+ budget  is going to look quite a bit different especially as freshmen than a bunch of 2-4 star kids at a mid major with a budget around $3million. I hope your mention of them was sarcastic.

The original argument was about age, not talent. Straw man.

[VUGrad1314]

Not when those examples are brought up as something all 19 year old college freshmen can do. Nice try.

[Just Sayin]

Not when those examples are brought up as something all 19 year old college freshmen can do. Nice try.

The argument was that they are only 19 year-olds and it's to be expected that they will not perform well. I pointed out that the KY team was 19 year-olds too but they performed well. That is all. No one mentioned talent yet you argued against my comment based on something I never said or implied. That's a straw-man argument. Nice try though.

[VUGrad1314]

Be reasonable. Just the mere mention of Kentucky or Michigan calls to mind an image like the one I described. Anyone could have and would have made that leap. Therefore I contend that you did imply it; and even if you didn't my point still stands that bringing up Kentucky's freshmen in the context of this argument is ridiculous.

[Just Sayin]

Be reasonable. Just the mere mention of Kentucky or Michigan calls to mind an image like the one I described. Anyone could have and would have made that leap. Therefore I contend that you did imply it; and even if you didn't my point still stands that bringing up Kentucky's freshmen in the context of this argument is ridiculous.

Don't put words in my mouth. Another fallacy. Only I know what I said or implied. Beat that straw man up to your heart's desire.

[Just Sayin]

Therefore I contend that you did imply it; and even if you didn't my point still stands that bringing up Kentucky's freshmen in the context of this argument is ridiculous.

Pretend I am Marshall McLuhan and you are the guy behind Woody Allen who thinks he knows what McLuhan is saying and implying:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXJ8tKRlW3E

[VUGrad1314]

Fine, but even if you didn't imply it, it's still a stupid argument to anyone that understands context. You can throw out all the debate jargon you want but as long as your argument and your buzzwords ignore the context of the argument  and that is Valpo's 19 year old freshmen vs Kentucky's and what those respective schools are able to attract and provide then they hold absolutely no power in a real world argument which cannot be separated from its context.