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At UNI Saturday, January 13, 7pm on ESPN2

Started by M, January 11, 2018, 01:37:35 PM

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humbleopinion

Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on January 14, 2018, 09:18:09 PM
It remains mind-boggling to me that there is a foolproof method for shooting FTs that has been perfected (with data to back it up) for 40 years right across town and yet VU coaching staff after coaching staff refuses to explore implementing it team-wide. Virgil Sweet Method for everyone shooting less than 75 percent, guys. FTs are 100 percent mechanics.

As I recall from my high school days, the biggest component of the techniques was the requirement to shoot 100 free throws before school, another 100 at lunch, and 200 after school.  I wondered if they took hook shots form the charity stripe with that amount of practice and they would hit a high percentage.

There is no way that Micah could have shot this poorly in high school.  I remember that back in the 80s basketball players were referred to Dr.Harris, a psych professor at VU who used techniques akin to hypnosis to improve confidence.
Beamin' Beacons

valpopal

Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on January 14, 2018, 09:18:09 PM
It remains mind-boggling to me that there is a foolproof method for shooting FTs that has been perfected (with data to back it up) for 40 years right across town and yet VU coaching staff after coaching staff refuses to explore implementing it team-wide. Virgil Sweet Method for everyone shooting less than 75 percent, guys. FTs are 100 percent mechanics.


I have always wondered the same thing. Why aren't poor free throw shooters made to use the method perfected in Valpo. Especially when Bryce was coach, I would have expected him to insist on the style. Some of our best free throw shooters at VU used the method, and a number of them still live in the area, so could be consultants. (Also, Micah played with Alec Peters, one of VU's all-time best at free-throws. Didn't he learn something from Alec?) My wife was taught to throw foul shots by Virgil Sweet himself, and she could make a higher percentage than Micah.


https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2016/05/11/meet-man-who-made-409-straight-free-throws-over-lunch-break/84227840/

valpo64

Concentration and practice, practice, practice!

bbtds

#103
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on January 14, 2018, 09:18:09 PM
It remains mind-boggling to me that there is a foolproof method for shooting FTs that has been perfected (with data to back it up) for 40 years right across town and yet VU coaching staff after coaching staff refuses to explore implementing it team-wide. Virgil Sweet Method for everyone shooting less than 75 percent, guys. FTs are 100 percent mechanics.

And don't forget that Virgil can also teach the guys how to put on their socks without stretching them out. He is a pro with over 30 years of teaching the Sweet method of putting on socks.

VULB#62

BTW, VU's all-time career leader in FTs (86.5%) is Chuck Kriston, who played under Sweet at VHS in the 60's.

valpopal

Quote from: VULB#62 on January 15, 2018, 11:17:14 AM
BTW, VU's all-time career leader in FTs (86.5%) is Chuck Kriston, who played under Sweet at VHS in the 60's.


And the two best seasons in FT percent belong to another VHS grad Casey Schmidt (92.6% in 1993-94 and 89.7% in 1992-93). Had he played all four years at VU, he likely would have been the all-time career leader.

VU2014

#106
The best free throw shooter on the team is currently red-shirting. Maybe he learned the sweets method because he's a VHS guy. Steven Helm led the state of Indiana in free throw shooting, connecting at a 94%(!) rate from the foul line his senior year.
http://helenair.com/sports/college/carroll-college/basketball/mens/carroll-s-helm-is-nation-s-best-at-the-line/article_51d2239a-8da6-5cfd-9978-dec95bbd56ac.html

With the limited amount of practice time in college I'd imagine they coaches are working on different things in practice. Free Throw shooting something guys need to be committed to on their own time and put the extra work in by themselves. It really is practice and repetition of mechanics.

valpopal

#107
Quote from: VU2014 on January 15, 2018, 11:54:28 AM
The best free throw shooter on the team is currently red-shirting. Maybe he learned the sweets method because he's a VHS guy. Steven Helm led the state of Indiana in free throw shooting, connecting at a 94%(!) rate from the foul line his senior year.
http://helenair.com/sports/college/carroll-college/basketball/mens/carroll-s-helm-is-nation-s-best-at-the-line/article_51d2239a-8da6-5cfd-9978-dec95bbd56ac.html



The article suggests Helm did learn the Virgil Sweet method at Valpo High. I just watched a video of Helm in which he only shoots 3-point shots, but even on them his form resembles the Sweet method. I would hope Lottich has Helm using his redshirt time to coach Micah how to shoot free throws.


PS: Found a video of Helm shooting free throws, and it is definitely the Virgil Sweet method. He should be VU's FT coach every day in practice!

valpo64

Since when is "lack of practice time" an excuse for not shooting free throws or regular shots on an accelerated basis?  It sure is part of the game and a very important part and should be part of any practice session.

VU2014

Quote from: valpo64 on January 15, 2018, 12:48:35 PM
Since when is "lack of practice time" an excuse for not shooting free throws or regular shots on an accelerated basis?  It sure is part of the game and a very important part and should be part of any practice session.

No excuse, but I know I'd rather see them work on their half court offense then have coaches stand next to them and watching them get up free throw reps. Prioritization and time management is key to long-term success. We need guys to put in work in their off time outside of practice. There are NCAA rules limiting the amount of practice time coaches get with players.

The NCAA only allows 20 hours a week and no more then 4 hours a day. We aren't a Kentucky where they don't follow the rules. Our kids actually need to go to class/study because we actually intend on graduating these kids.

Free Throws are one of those things that need to be worked on outside of valuable practice time and really need to be worked on during the long off-seasons.

valpopal

Quote from: VU2014 on January 15, 2018, 01:06:08 PM
There are NCAA rules limiting the amount of practice time coaches get with players.

The NCAA only allows 20 hours a week and no more then 4 hours a day.


All the more reason to have Helm as an unofficial FT coach to the other players on their own time.

valporun

Helm or any of our better free throw shooters could work with Micah or other poor FT shooters at anytime. Players can work together during individual sessions. There is no restriction on that by the NCAA. They just restrict the hours that coaches can be working with the players.

valpo64

When or where doesn't matter, they need to PRACTICE SHOOTING including free throws!  A Div. 1 point guard hitting way under 50% of one's FT is not acceptable in my opinion.  Those percentages are grade school numbers.

vu72

Quote from: valpo64 on January 16, 2018, 12:23:29 PM
When or where doesn't matter, they need to PRACTICE SHOOTING including free throws!  A Div. 1 point guard hitting way under 50% of one's FT is not acceptable in my opinion.  Those percentages are grade school numbers.

No question practice can and will improve the numbers.  I was thinking back to Brandon Wood and how at one point I suggested he shoot a jump shot from the free throw line to improve his FT numbers.  He shot 66.4% his senior year and 62.2 his year at MSU.  Today, in the G League he is shooting 93.1!!  Practice, practice, practice.  Having said that, no doubt he is getting excellent coaching now as well.
Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

Valpo89

The problem is no one is around who knows how to TEACH the Valpo free throw.
Bryce doesn't know how to teach it. He barely used it himself.
College coaches don't like to be told what to do by someone else. Neither do the players. They think their way is fine.
The only person who could teach it at VU would be Skip Collins, but he's just a part-time resident and smart enough to spend most of his winters in Florida. :)

humbleopinion

Quote from: Valpo89 on January 16, 2018, 01:26:00 PM
The problem is no one is around who knows how to TEACH the Valpo free throw.
Bryce doesn't know how to teach it. He barely used it himself.
College coaches don't like to be told what to do by someone else. Neither do the players. They think their way is fine.
The only person who could teach it at VU would be Skip Collins, but he's just a part-time resident and smart enough to spend most of his winters in Florida. :)

There are many old VHS players around that could do it.  You're right, Bryce's version wouldn't have cut it with Virgil.  Probably the most important aspects of the method was to reduce the likelihood of variation from shot to shot -- a stroke starting from the legs with arms starting close to the body and following though in the direction of the basket.  As I indicated before, the 400 or so free throws that the VHS players shot per day had a significant impact on their success. 
Beamin' Beacons